No, apple didn't sell more computers. They sold more desktop, laptop, and mobile devices. Your own graph shows a massive discrepancy between 'Macs' and 'windows PCs' - or computers. This wont include non partner Microsoft suppliers, home enthusiasts, OEMs, unbranded PCs or Windows Servers..
Apple also didn't sell more devices running Apple's OSs than other vendors sold running Android. Still, I wouldn't expect this site to report the actual unbiased facts - why change a habit of a lifetime.
Wha? Why not add iPhones? Whatever the iPad can do, the iPhone can do it as well
Really?! Awesome, let me tell the teams they can stop wasting money on all our m. solutions they are working on. What a waste! They all can do the same thing! Quick let's delete all the device segmentations in analytics, we don't need it! Everyone behaves the same, what fools we all are chasing customer experiences!
How many word documents or spreadsheets have you created using your iPhone. I'm talking like actual documents not like 3 sentences. I'm pretty sure that number is fairly small if even any. If all you're using a computer for is browsing the internet and checking email and going on the app store, then sure, an iPad and iPhone are pretty much the same thing.
It's not about how often you use it. It's about how you're using it. And again, this is assuming you at least do some kind of word processing or spreadsheet work and not just browse the internet or check your email.
1) Zero for creating spreadsheet on my iPhone, but also zero for my iPad, MBP, iMac, and netbook.
2) For word processor documents I do this extensively on my iPhone, and pretty much no where else. I do this in the Notes apps where I have multiple notes covering many topics.
3) I am trying to consider a world where people use their "PCs" specifically for spreadsheets and Word documents, bit not for checking email, browsing the internet and using various 3rd-party apps. If that's what you think is the norm is not an accurate portrayal of what people do with "PCs", and you're lying to yourself since you're on this forum, which I happen to be replying to use with more than 3 sentences from my iPhone.
4) How often you use something is also important. You can hate on the iPhone's Mail or Safari for being used more than on a WinPC but it's being used more and in the same way by pretty much everyone. It's simply silly to move the goal posts to say that it's not a PC if you aren't doing extensive spreadsheets even though you could if you wanted to. In fact, you can do a lot more in less time on an iDevice than you could with Lotus 1-2-3 on the old IBM-PC.
5) Note that I mentioned I have a netbook. It's an Intel chip so that makes it a real "PC" in your book? It has Win7 installed so does that makes it a real "PC"? It has a VGA port so does that it a real "PC"? Do you know what I use it for? For sending and receiving Pings when testing my network labs. No spreadsheets. No word processors. That's it and because that's it I don't count that in the list of "PCs" that I own even though another could use it as a "PC" despite it being a very poor personal computing device compared to a Mac, iPad and iPhone which are all personal computers despite what myopic and outdated definition you wish to impose on them.
Internet data is collected through ads. Just means iOS users visit web pages more. Not sure how that equates to using an iOS as "real computers. " Most people consider real computer use to be at least word processing and not just browsing the internet and shopping.
No, apple didn't sell more computers. They sold more desktop, laptop, and mobile devices. Your own graph shows a massive discrepancy between 'Macs' and 'windows PCs' - or computers. This wont include non partner Microsoft suppliers, home enthusiasts, OEMs, unbranded PCs or Windows Servers..
Apple also didn't sell more devices running Apple's OSs than other vendors sold running Android. Still, I wouldn't expect this site to report the actual unbiased facts - why change a habit of a lifetime.
This was just comparing Apple and Microsoft. Why do Androiders think otherwise.
It's like comparing just apples and oranges then have some banana lovers scream "Bananas sold more!!"
Really?! Awesome, let me tell the teams they can stop wasting money on all our m. solutions they are working on. What a waste! They all can do the same thing! Quick let's delete all the device segmentations in analytics, we don't need it! Everyone behaves the same, what fools we all are chasing customer experiences!
I didn't mention experiences. The fact remains the iPhone can do things that the iPad can. Sure there are benefits of using one over the other, but that wasn't my point. Laptops can do the same things as desktops so why dont we exclude one over the other.
How many word documents or spreadsheets have you created using your iPhone. I'm talking like actual documents not like 3 sentences. I'm pretty sure that number is fairly small if even any. If all you're using a computer for is browsing the internet and checking email and going on the app store, then sure, an iPad and iPhone are pretty much the same thing.
It's not about how often you use it. It's about how you're using it. And again, this is assuming you at least do some kind of word processing or spreadsheet work and not just browse the internet or check your email.
It's OK if you want to limit your population to those who do spreadsheet and word processor work. But the original study this article is about, plus most of the people discussing it, don't impose that limitation. We're interested in the entire community of computer users, including gamers and web surfers and anybody else who spends time doing stuff on their computer (be it handheld or desktop).
I myself used to do a lot of spreadsheet and word processing. I thought it was kind of a sh*tty way to spend my time, and now that I'm retired I don't do so much of it. But I agree with you, desktops and laptops are the best devices for spreadsheets. And it reminds me of how Steve Jobs described tablets as like cars and desktops like trucks. Desktops and trucks aren't going away (someone's got to haul the manure, glad it's not me anymore), but many of us will avoid trucks and desktops when we have the freedom to do so.
The iOS system is based on the same technologies used by Mac OS X, namely the Mach kernel and BSD interfaces. Thus, iOS apps run in a UNIX-based system and have full support for threads, sockets, and many of the other technologies typically available at that level. However, there are places where the behavior of iOS differs from that of Mac OS X."
Here is discussed how UNIX has built in modularity, which enabled companies and open source enthusiasts to modify it towards their aims and goal. The modified UNIX is not "certified", but it is still UNIX. Just like legally LINUX is not UNIX, but everyone uses it the same, with much of the same software, and thinks of them as being equal.
It can even be said that Android is a break off version of UNIX (LINUX).
So the only way Apple can say they outsold Windows OEM's is to combine ios devices into the computer category. Sorry that is a lame answer if you can't win on the product alone then don't play the game. Desktops/laptops vs desktops/laptops. Next they will count their iwatch as a computer and the appletv as well.
Calling an iPhone and an iPod Touch a computer it is bit of a stretch because people don't really buy iPhones and iPods instead of a computer.
Your last statement isn't necessarily correct, at least not for everyone. My wife uses an iPad for just about everything she does.
The statement was that iPhones and iPods aren't bought instead of a computer. iPads certainly are.
I think that decision comes down to how long you can use a device comfortably. It's easy to take out an iPhone/iPod while walking to send a text or a tweet, use maps, find a quick link on a browser but could you comfortably use a discussion forum for long periods of time or format documents or read books? It's possible to do but it's not comfortable.
What complicates this is that if you simply attached a large touch display to an iPhone (like the Asus Padfone) then that distinction in comfort is lost.
But, given that these kind of solutions rarely exist, the important consideration with the sales figures has to be competing products at the point of sale. I don't consider an iPod to be a competing product to a laptop but an iPad definitely is. I have bought an iPad instead of a laptop for relatives but would never consider an iPod for the same role because without that screen option, it's not a comfortable enough replacement for a laptop.
There's also the issue that if iPhones and iPods come into play, so do Android smartphones. I think the most meaningful comparison is:
Windows PCs + Surface
vs
Macs + iPads
vs
Android PCs and tablets
vs
Chromebooks
Leave smartphones, music players etc out of it. Some versions of the Kindle can be excluded too as they are low utility devices.
This comparison wouldn't put Apple ahead of all Windows devices combined but it usually puts them ahead of the largest PC manufacturer HP, which is a significant achievement.
Some of you are hung up on your inflexible and narrow definition of a computer. And you are missing the point: the functions of a computer are being replaced by other devices. These devices will inherit the earth. My dad used to scoff at personal computers, and called mainframes "real computers." He completely missed the fact that personal computers and microprocessors expanded the reach and availability of computing technology far beyond the expensive mainframe. The use cases for PCs were different from mainframes. Dad clung to the traditional use cases that mainframes were made for. Today, computing and information use cases are shifting to the Internet and cloud services. Pervasive wireless networking will mean highly mobile devices (smartphones and tablets) will become the preferred way a new generation of users will access those services. These people will eschew the complexity of a PC and its in-your-face operating system for the minimal, you-are-directly-touching-your-data experience of the tablet and phone. Fall in love with traditional complex, "elite" technology and you'll miss what is happening. Right now.
I'm not seeing where Darwin is certified either, just Mountain Lion and Mavericks
Darwin is a Mach kernel and bsd (unix) subsystem. This is the unix part of Mac OS X and the certified bit of Maverick.
Who cares about certification anyway, it's certified by apple, the biggest unix vendor on the planet.
That should be good enough for anyone.
I'm not seeing where Darwin is certified either, just Mountain Lion and Mavericks
When people talk about a machine being UNIX are they always specifically talking about being SUSv3 certified (which Wikipedia says Darwin it is) or are they just using the colloquial instead of saying it's UNIX-like, which is still the case with Mac OS X despite it's clear SUSv3 certification? I think it's the latter.
I'm not seeing where Darwin is certified either, just Mountain Lion and Mavericks
When people talk about a machine being UNIX are they always specifically talking about being SUSv3 certified (which Wikipedia says Darwin it is) or are they just using the colloquial instead of saying it's UNIX-like, which is still the case with Mac OS X despite it's clear SUSv3 certification? I think it's the latter.
Darwin is not certified, but compatible with version 3. If it is open source who would have paid for the certification review? Anyway, the point I made was that iOS is not certified UNIX either as far as I know and my remarks were in reply to a post that ask when iOS was certified which was incorrectly answered by someone else as 2007. I think everyone agrees that iOS is UNIX or UNIX-like.
The bottom line here is term personal computer came out to describe something one could [I]personally[/I] own and use; not a communal device you had to rent or signup for time at a university or business to utilize. Everything that came after this is the evolution of the PC. From non-GUI to GUI, from desktops to notebooks, and from notebooks to handhelds are all part of this progression. I foresee the next progression in [I]personal[/I] computing to be the wearable. As poor as they are even Samsung's Android-based smart watch counts as a personal computer.
The bottom line here is term personal computer came out to describe something one could personally own and use; not a communal device you had to rent or signup for time at a university or business to utilize. Everything that came after this is the evolution of the PC. From non-GUI to GUI, from desktops to notebooks, and from notebooks to handhelds are all part of this progression. I foresee the next progression in personal computing to be the wearable. As poor as they are even Samsung's Android-based smart watch counts as a personal computer.
People forget that smartphones are usually as powerful as desktop computers of 5-10 years ago. Most of my computing needs are handled quite easily by my smartphone.
Comments
No, apple didn't sell more computers. They sold more desktop, laptop, and mobile devices. Your own graph shows a massive discrepancy between 'Macs' and 'windows PCs' - or computers. This wont include non partner Microsoft suppliers, home enthusiasts, OEMs, unbranded PCs or Windows Servers..
Apple also didn't sell more devices running Apple's OSs than other vendors sold running Android. Still, I wouldn't expect this site to report the actual unbiased facts - why change a habit of a lifetime.
Wha? Why not add iPhones? Whatever the iPad can do, the iPhone can do it as well
Really?! Awesome, let me tell the teams they can stop wasting money on all our m. solutions they are working on. What a waste! They all can do the same thing! Quick let's delete all the device segmentations in analytics, we don't need it! Everyone behaves the same, what fools we all are chasing customer experiences!
1) Zero for creating spreadsheet on my iPhone, but also zero for my iPad, MBP, iMac, and netbook.
2) For word processor documents I do this extensively on my iPhone, and pretty much no where else. I do this in the Notes apps where I have multiple notes covering many topics.
3) I am trying to consider a world where people use their "PCs" specifically for spreadsheets and Word documents, bit not for checking email, browsing the internet and using various 3rd-party apps. If that's what you think is the norm is not an accurate portrayal of what people do with "PCs", and you're lying to yourself since you're on this forum, which I happen to be replying to use with more than 3 sentences from my iPhone.
4) How often you use something is also important. You can hate on the iPhone's Mail or Safari for being used more than on a WinPC but it's being used more and in the same way by pretty much everyone. It's simply silly to move the goal posts to say that it's not a PC if you aren't doing extensive spreadsheets even though you could if you wanted to. In fact, you can do a lot more in less time on an iDevice than you could with Lotus 1-2-3 on the old IBM-PC.
5) Note that I mentioned I have a netbook. It's an Intel chip so that makes it a real "PC" in your book? It has Win7 installed so does that makes it a real "PC"? It has a VGA port so does that it a real "PC"? Do you know what I use it for? For sending and receiving Pings when testing my network labs. No spreadsheets. No word processors. That's it and because that's it I don't count that in the list of "PCs" that I own even though another could use it as a "PC" despite it being a very poor personal computing device compared to a Mac, iPad and iPhone which are all personal computers despite what myopic and outdated definition you wish to impose on them.
Most? Do you have a survey on that?
This was just comparing Apple and Microsoft. Why do Androiders think otherwise.
It's like comparing just apples and oranges then have some banana lovers scream "Bananas sold more!!"
I didn't mention experiences. The fact remains the iPhone can do things that the iPad can. Sure there are benefits of using one over the other, but that wasn't my point. Laptops can do the same things as desktops so why dont we exclude one over the other.
How many word documents or spreadsheets have you created using your iPhone. I'm talking like actual documents not like 3 sentences. I'm pretty sure that number is fairly small if even any. If all you're using a computer for is browsing the internet and checking email and going on the app store, then sure, an iPad and iPhone are pretty much the same thing.
It's not about how often you use it. It's about how you're using it. And again, this is assuming you at least do some kind of word processing or spreadsheet work and not just browse the internet or check your email.
It's OK if you want to limit your population to those who do spreadsheet and word processor work. But the original study this article is about, plus most of the people discussing it, don't impose that limitation. We're interested in the entire community of computer users, including gamers and web surfers and anybody else who spends time doing stuff on their computer (be it handheld or desktop).
I myself used to do a lot of spreadsheet and word processing. I thought it was kind of a sh*tty way to spend my time, and now that I'm retired I don't do so much of it. But I agree with you, desktops and laptops are the best devices for spreadsheets. And it reminds me of how Steve Jobs described tablets as like cars and desktops like trucks. Desktops and trucks aren't going away (someone's got to haul the manure, glad it's not me anymore), but many of us will avoid trucks and desktops when we have the freedom to do so.
when did iOS become certified UNIX?
From:
https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/iphone/conceptual/iphoneosprogrammingguide/TheiOSEnvironment/TheiOSEnvironment.html
"Specialized System Behaviors
The iOS system is based on the same technologies used by Mac OS X, namely the Mach kernel and BSD interfaces. Thus, iOS apps run in a UNIX-based system and have full support for threads, sockets, and many of the other technologies typically available at that level. However, there are places where the behavior of iOS differs from that of Mac OS X."
So the only way Apple can say they outsold Windows OEM's is to combine ios devices into the computer category. Sorry that is a lame answer if you can't win on the product alone then don't play the game. Desktops/laptops vs desktops/laptops. Next they will count their iwatch as a computer and the appletv as well.
It's like calling a moped a motorcycle.
The statement was that iPhones and iPods aren't bought instead of a computer. iPads certainly are.
I think that decision comes down to how long you can use a device comfortably. It's easy to take out an iPhone/iPod while walking to send a text or a tweet, use maps, find a quick link on a browser but could you comfortably use a discussion forum for long periods of time or format documents or read books? It's possible to do but it's not comfortable.
What complicates this is that if you simply attached a large touch display to an iPhone (like the Asus Padfone) then that distinction in comfort is lost.
But, given that these kind of solutions rarely exist, the important consideration with the sales figures has to be competing products at the point of sale. I don't consider an iPod to be a competing product to a laptop but an iPad definitely is. I have bought an iPad instead of a laptop for relatives but would never consider an iPod for the same role because without that screen option, it's not a comfortable enough replacement for a laptop.
There's also the issue that if iPhones and iPods come into play, so do Android smartphones. I think the most meaningful comparison is:
Windows PCs + Surface
vs
Macs + iPads
vs
Android PCs and tablets
vs
Chromebooks
Leave smartphones, music players etc out of it. Some versions of the Kindle can be excluded too as they are low utility devices.
This comparison wouldn't put Apple ahead of all Windows devices combined but it usually puts them ahead of the largest PC manufacturer HP, which is a significant achievement.
Darwin is a Mach kernel and bsd (unix) subsystem. This is the unix part of Mac OS X and the certified bit of Maverick.
Who cares about certification anyway, it's certified by apple, the biggest unix vendor on the planet.
That should be good enough for anyone.
When people talk about a machine being UNIX are they always specifically talking about being SUSv3 certified (which Wikipedia says Darwin it is) or are they just using the colloquial instead of saying it's UNIX-like, which is still the case with Mac OS X despite it's clear SUSv3 certification? I think it's the latter.
Seriously. The iPad is twice the computer compared with any ultrabook that the PC crowd is crowing about.
really? the iPad is a great tablet but isn't twice the computer of all ultrabooks.
I would say that it's even better than a PC when browsing the web.
Perhaps similar, but it doesn't really matter because iOS is not certified UNIX.
You can read the dozens of requirements here:
http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/testing/prodstds.htm
iOS doesn't conform to any of them.
I'm not seeing where Darwin is certified either, just Mountain Lion and Mavericks
When people talk about a machine being UNIX are they always specifically talking about being SUSv3 certified (which Wikipedia says Darwin it is) or are they just using the colloquial instead of saying it's UNIX-like, which is still the case with Mac OS X despite it's clear SUSv3 certification? I think it's the latter.
Darwin is not certified, but compatible with version 3. If it is open source who would have paid for the certification review? Anyway, the point I made was that iOS is not certified UNIX either as far as I know and my remarks were in reply to a post that ask when iOS was certified which was incorrectly answered by someone else as 2007. I think everyone agrees that iOS is UNIX or UNIX-like.
Maybe read the article before outing yourself as uninformed.
Eh, it has its plusses, but has its minuses too.
People forget that smartphones are usually as powerful as desktop computers of 5-10 years ago. Most of my computing needs are handled quite easily by my smartphone.
As poor as they are even Samsung's Android-based smart watch counts as a personal computer.
So my car is a PC? It has at least as many functions as the Samsung smart watch.