I think 8GB of space is almost a slap in the face now days.
Not to mention that the cost differential is almost non existent. 8GB of flash is chump change these days. Apple would have to accept lower margins to make the model significantly cheaper. Then they would have to deal with consumer dissatisfaction.
About the only place I could see this working is in the corporate issues phone market where limited flash might be seen as a feature.
I'm not even a big user of my phone as far as lots of apps and music and I had to delete things just to install iOS 7.1 with a 16GB iPhone 5C.
Exactly 8GB isn't even suitable for low end mainstream users.
One thing I'd really like to see is the bottom end phone be 32GB instead of 16GB. Making the offerings 32/64/128 instead of 16/32/64. As people start doing more and more and Apple keeps making the cameras better and better it will use up the storage capacity even faster, especially with these lower capacities.
Yep.
Considering how far the price of flash has dropped I'd go even further and say that Apple has been screwing over users lately by not doubling the price of flash. The price of flash has dropped enough to more than double storage without impacting parts cost. Combine that with the utter failure of iCloud and I don't see a good excuse for Apple these days.
As you point out apps themselves take up lots of room and you add a bit of data storage and it gets crowded fast. Apple really needs to think about a 32GB entry point.
Once you get a few songs on it and take a few photos that 8GB will be gone in a heartbeat. I know this is supposed to be a cheap offering but its sorta useless with the amount of space on it.
Useless is the right word. At least for most users. Like I said though the corporate market might see this as an advantage effectively restricting the amount of sensitive data that can go on the phone. Other users would just end up extremely dissatisfied.
That being said, I think it would be great to see the 5C offered instead of the 4S if thats what Apple intends on doing.
Err no really. The 4S sits at a nice size point. Physical size still means a lot to many users.
Like clockwork. Almost makes me upset that I’m able to call these things so accurately.
Isn't this argument over? Remember? You can't lose! Its really not worth discussing things with you because you're like a 12yr old on here and all the other Mac forums.
Neither one of us has exact proof of either side. I just see it the way I see it. If you see this as me not providing proof then so be it. I have yet to see you prove your side too. Don't make me do your dirty work.
No, but I’m about to do some insulting. Explain how your use of the iPhone is identical to the use of the other two hundred million iPhone users and how everyone who wants or could potentially want an iPhone needs more than 8GB of space. That has been your argument thus far, so prove it.
There is nothing to prove here, it is well known that consumers become very very dissatisfied with a product if they can't do what they expect to be able to do with said product. At 8GB it doesn't take much more than a couple of apps to greatly reduce the usability of iPhone. If a few minutes of picture taking fills up an iPhone that will lead to unhappy customers.
Beyond that there is an element of a ripoff here. The reality is that there is only a minor difference in the cost to implement 8 GB versus 16 GB in an iPhone. It isn't enough to significantly shift the price of the iPhone lower without Apple giving up margin.
The third problem is also price related and that has to do with how the price of flash has dropped massively over the life span of the iPhones. At a minimal Apple needs to double the flash capacity at each price point instead of having it.
Err no really. The 4S sits at a nice size point. Physical size still means a lot to many users.
This also makes me think Apple is really trying to phase out the 30-pin dock connector as well. We've heard the iPad 2 is also on its way out very soon which I think would make all of Apple's iOS devices using the lightning connector.
imo they were expecting much better sales indeed. Beating the 4s sales is setting the bar very low on a redesign phone. The phone is Ok, its a matter of pricing.
For a phone that was so heavily advertised... I'm sure that Apple thought its sales would come close to the 5s.
Here's an interesting chart for iPhone sales in China -- supposedly a big target for the 5C:
I don't see this as anything more than another supply chain play, and move to finally phase out the 30-pin connector from Apple's new devices. This simply displaces the 4s as the entry level model (except in India, where the iPhone 4 purportedly remains available) in developed markets, and better optimizes the unused production capacity for the 5c.
With any move like this under Tim Cook, you have to view it through the supply chain, since that's his background and his area of expertise.
Yes, I’m sure that there is no one on Earth who would use their phone in the use case you have described¡
Originally Posted by wizard69
There is nothing to prove here, it is well known that consumers become very very dissatisfied with a product if they can't do what they expect to be able to do with said product.
I don’t think anyone’s contesting that.
At 8GB it doesn't take much more than a couple of apps to greatly reduce the usability of iPhone. If a few minutes of picture taking fills up an iPhone that will lead to unhappy customers.
But with 8GB, neither of those statements are correct.
At a minimal Apple needs to double the flash capacity at each price point instead of having it.
I’m totally in agreement with that.
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Chart’s utter BS, by the way. That should be evident to anyone who looks at it.
The chart needs to show the sales of the iPhone 4 and the iPhone 4s in their respective second years of sales. Instead of showing iPhone 5S (only first year run data) and iPhone 5 (only first year run data) compared to iPhone 5C (explicitly second year run data).
Really, all this chart does is show the drop off in 1st and 2nd year sales between a SINGLE MODEL of phone, so it’s useful in that regard. Since the 5C is the 5, those two lines alone can be compared. The 5S is just thrown in there for no reason, looking at it that way.
And since the 5C has sold better than second year 4S, it’s hardly a failure.
so they are releasing a phone with a retarded 8gb of tiny space (this is 2014 last time I ckecked) to save 5$ on cost? If they want to sell the 5c in volume they need to drop the price to $400 or below on the 16g models....
Well herbapou, at the risk of seeming to agree with you, I'll assert that 8GB of storage is a tiny fraction of cost in the overall scheme of things, and I doubt Apple will hobble the 5c (5-color) by turning it into the 5cc (5-cheap-crap). This rumor seems counter to Apple's vision.
I strongly disagree with your assertion that Apple should "want to sell the 5c in volume". It is very clear that Apple wants to sell their products at high profit. Not merely volume. So your straw-man argument fails.
--------------------
Update Edit: Seems there are photos of actual items for release tomorrow, so my doubts seem unwarranted. I am at a loss to understand Apple's rationale on it though.
We’re comparing two 1st year products with a 2nd year product and calling the 2nd year product’s sales a failure.
Wh…
The chart needs to show the sales of the iPhone 4 and the iPhone 4s in their respective second years of sales. Instead of showing iPhone 5S (only first year run data) and iPhone 5 (only first year run data) compared to iPhone 5C (explicitly second year run data).
Really, all this chart does is show the drop off in 1st and 2nd year sales between a SINGLE MODEL of phone, so it’s useful in that regard. Since the 5C is the 5, those two lines alone can be compared. The 5S is just thrown in there for no reason, looking at it that way.
And since the 5C has sold better than second year 4S, it’s hardly a failure.
I assume that the Launch Month scale shows when that device was launched in China (when the devices are first available):
iPhone 5 First Weekend Sales in China Top Two Million
BEIJING—December 17, 2012—Apple® today announced it has sold over two million of its new iPhone® 5 in China, just three days after its launch on December 14. iPhone 5 will be available in more than 100 countries by the end of December, making it the fastest iPhone rollout ever.
“Customer response to iPhone 5 in China has been incredible, setting a new record with the best first weekend sales ever in China,” said Tim Cook, Apple’s CEO. “China is a very important market for us and customers there cannot wait to get their hands on Apple products.”
iPhone 5 is the thinnest and lightest iPhone ever, completely redesigned to feature a stunning new 4-inch Retina® display; an Apple-designed A6 chip for blazing fast performance; and ultrafast wireless technology*—all while delivering even better battery life.** iPhone 5 comes with iOS 6, the world’s most advanced mobile operating system with over 200 new features including: Shared Photo Streams, all-new Maps app, Passbook® organization and even more Siri® features and languages including Mandarin.
Comments
It sounds like the coming 8GB iPhone 6 will be the one to go head to head with the Moto G.
Losing 8GB likely saves Apple a dollar or two in production costs, enough to produce a more competitive screen.
An 8gb iPhone with a larger screen sounds like a real loser to me.
Won't people who are willing to shell out the extra bucks to have a larger screen be the same people who won't accept anything less than 32gb?
[refuses to answer any questions or prove his point]
Like clockwork. Almost makes me upset that I’m able to call these things so accurately.
About the only place I could see this working is in the corporate issues phone market where limited flash might be seen as a feature. Exactly 8GB isn't even suitable for low end mainstream users. Yep.
Considering how far the price of flash has dropped I'd go even further and say that Apple has been screwing over users lately by not doubling the price of flash. The price of flash has dropped enough to more than double storage without impacting parts cost. Combine that with the utter failure of iCloud and I don't see a good excuse for Apple these days.
As you point out apps themselves take up lots of room and you add a bit of data storage and it gets crowded fast. Apple really needs to think about a 32GB entry point. Useless is the right word. At least for most users. Like I said though the corporate market might see this as an advantage effectively restricting the amount of sensitive data that can go on the phone. Other users would just end up extremely dissatisfied.
Err no really. The 4S sits at a nice size point. Physical size still means a lot to many users.
Really Apple??
Like clockwork. Almost makes me upset that I’m able to call these things so accurately.
Isn't this argument over? Remember? You can't lose! Its really not worth discussing things with you because you're like a 12yr old on here and all the other Mac forums.
Neither one of us has exact proof of either side. I just see it the way I see it. If you see this as me not providing proof then so be it. I have yet to see you prove your side too. Don't make me do your dirty work.
Beyond that there is an element of a ripoff here. The reality is that there is only a minor difference in the cost to implement 8 GB versus 16 GB in an iPhone. It isn't enough to significantly shift the price of the iPhone lower without Apple giving up margin.
The third problem is also price related and that has to do with how the price of flash has dropped massively over the life span of the iPhones. At a minimal Apple needs to double the flash capacity at each price point instead of having it.
Err no really. The 4S sits at a nice size point. Physical size still means a lot to many users.
This also makes me think Apple is really trying to phase out the 30-pin dock connector as well. We've heard the iPad 2 is also on its way out very soon which I think would make all of Apple's iOS devices using the lightning connector.
Here's an interesting chart for iPhone sales in China -- supposedly a big target for the 5C:
http://************/2014/03/17/iphone-5c-not-a-hit-in-china-either-would-a-rumored-8gb-model-help/#more-315124
The above lint is to nine2fiveMacdotcom
I don't understand how reducing the BOM cost for a $9.40 part can significantly reduce the retail price.
5C | 16 GB | 32 GB
NAND Flash | $9.40 | $18.80
Neither one of us has exact proof of either side.
I do. So there’s that.
Yes, I’m sure that there is no one on Earth who would use their phone in the use case you have described¡
I don’t think anyone’s contesting that.
But with 8GB, neither of those statements are correct.
I’m totally in agreement with that.
Chart’s utter BS, by the way. That should be evident to anyone who looks at it.
Explain?
Oh? Okay.
We’re comparing two 1st year products with a 2nd year product and calling the 2nd year product’s sales a failure.
Wh…
" src="http://forums-files.appleinsider.com/images/smilies//lol.gif" />
The chart needs to show the sales of the iPhone 4 and the iPhone 4s in their respective second years of sales. Instead of showing iPhone 5S (only first year run data) and iPhone 5 (only first year run data) compared to iPhone 5C (explicitly second year run data).
Really, all this chart does is show the drop off in 1st and 2nd year sales between a SINGLE MODEL of phone, so it’s useful in that regard. Since the 5C is the 5, those two lines alone can be compared. The 5S is just thrown in there for no reason, looking at it that way.
And since the 5C has sold better than second year 4S, it’s hardly a failure.
so they are releasing a phone with a retarded 8gb of tiny space (this is 2014 last time I ckecked) to save 5$ on cost? If they want to sell the 5c in volume they need to drop the price to $400 or below on the 16g models....
Well herbapou, at the risk of seeming to agree with you, I'll assert that 8GB of storage is a tiny fraction of cost in the overall scheme of things, and I doubt Apple will hobble the 5c (5-color) by turning it into the 5cc (5-cheap-crap). This rumor seems counter to Apple's vision.
I strongly disagree with your assertion that Apple should "want to sell the 5c in volume". It is very clear that Apple wants to sell their products at high profit. Not merely volume. So your straw-man argument fails.
--------------------
Update Edit: Seems there are photos of actual items for release tomorrow, so my doubts seem unwarranted. I am at a loss to understand Apple's rationale on it though.
Chart’s utter BS, by the way. That should be evident to anyone who looks at it.
Yes, and "% market share" is a silly figure to track when both market and market share are expanding.
I assume that the Launch Month scale shows when that device was launched in China (when the devices are first available):
https://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/12/16iPhone-5-First-Weekend-Sales-in-China-Top-Two-Million.html
It's percent share of active iOS devices!
8GB is not enough for a modern smartphone, they should not do this.
Here's an interesting chart for iPhone sales in China -- supposedly a big target for the 5C:
http://************/2014/03/17/iphone-5c-not-a-hit-in-china-either-would-a-rumored-8gb-model-help/#more-315124
The above lint is to nine2fiveMacdotcom
I don't understand how reducing the BOM cost for a $9.40 part can significantly reduce the retail price.
5C | 16 GB | 32 GB
NAND Flash | $9.40 | $18.80
Exactly.
The logic escapes me, take a phone that isn't meeting expectations and cripple it with half the storage?
5C/15GB is already less than $30 at Walmart. What now BOGO?
Hopefully just another silly rumor.