Maybe Apple should include a non-white person on their BOD. But, if it is just for appearances, I think it would be a mistake. It should be someone who can reach out and influence other corporations, the disadvantaged and the general public -- and benefit Apple and the world community at large.
My first choice would be Ervin Johnson.
Who'd be your choice?
With no sarcasm or offense intended, who is Ervin Jackson?
It's "Magic"
Earvin "Magic" Johnson, Jr. (born August 14, 1959) is a retired American professional basketball player who played point guard for the Los Angeles Lakers of the National Basketball Association (NBA) for 13 seasons. After winning championships in high school and college, Johnson was selected first overall in the 1979 NBA Draft by the Lakers. He won a championship and an NBA Finals Most Valuable Player Award in his rookie season, and won four more championships with the Lakers during the 1980s. Johnson retired abruptly in 1991 after announcing that he had contracted HIV, but returned to play in the 1992 All-Star Game, winning the All-Star MVP Award. After protests from his fellow players, he retired again for four years, but returned in 1996, at age 36, to play 32 games for the Lakers before retiring for the third and final time.
Johnson's career achievements include three NBA MVP Awards, nine NBA Finals appearances, twelve All-Star games, and ten All-NBA First and Second Team nominations. He led the league in regular-season assists four times, and is the NBA's all-time leader in average assists per game, at 11.2.[3] Johnson was a member of the 1992 United States men's Olympic basketball team ("The Dream Team"), which won the Olympic gold medal in 1992. After leaving the NBA in 1992, Johnson formed the Magic Johnson All-Stars, a barnstorming team that travelled around the world playing exhibition games.[4]
Johnson was honored as one of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History in 1996, and enshrined in the Basketball Hall of Fame in 2002 for his individual career, and again in 2010 as a member of the "Dream Team".[5] He was rated the greatest NBA point guard of all time by ESPN in 2007.[6] His friendship and rivalry with Boston Celtics star Larry Bird, whom he faced in the 1979 NCAA finals and three NBA championship series, are well documented. Since his retirement, Johnson has been an advocate for HIV/AIDS prevention and safe sex,[5] as well as an entrepreneur,[7] philanthropist,[8] broadcaster and motivational speaker.[9] Named by Ebony Magazine as one of America's most influential black businessmen in 2009,[10] Johnson has numerous business interests, and was a part-owner of the Lakers for several years. Johnson also is part of a group of investors that purchased the Los Angeles Dodgers in 2012 and the Los Angeles Sparks in 2014.
Even in an ideal world, hiring would be subjective. If you had to select 5 people to form a basketball team, whom would you choose? There's no objective right answer, and that's in a setting where we have an incredible amount of objective data. And the first choice you made would influence your second choice and your third, etc.
You could look at game stats. In this instance, since we're talking about athleticism, you could even look at physical stats like height, weight, arm length, speed, etc. could be considered objective.
I generally agree with that ... Yet, we have disadvantaged people/locals in this world and their situation is growing worse in spite of the governments/politicians efforts.
Apple is a very visible, very profitable company with a good corporate conscience. What if Apple decided that it is to Apple's and the larger world community's benefit to address some of these issues.
As others have posted, the black community in the US is disproportionally disadvantaged -- jobs, arrests, family breakdown, education, opportunity ...
What If Apple decided implement a program to disrupt this specific problem.
I don't think throwing money at the problem will solve it -- nor just talking the talk. To be effective, I think that the person that can do thisl has to be black and successful -- and be able to sell a solution.
Maybe hiring is the wrong approach -- say, employing the services and giving him a bully pulpit!
I think there are a good number of very solid arguments that could be made proving that the poor and disadvantaged have been harmed more than helped due to the work of our government and politicians. Getting a leg up when one is down is one thing, assisting the truly needy is one thing (however one chooses to define these concepts), but creating lifelong dependency is quite another.
Regarding Apple, I've seen a lot of generosity from them in terms of their mission and the effects of selling products that offer great value in terms of education and opportunity (specifically, for those willing to take the time to learn development for apps). It's really up to students and individuals to take advantage of the things life presents them with. A program alone cannot affect one's personal drive toward success in the face of extreme adversity. Arguably, the road to success is populated with people dead set on rising above their limitations.
As to the disadvantages facing kids from families with legal problems, it's been shown that minorities are disproportionately affected by drug laws, for example. US drug laws are thankfully starting to change because of the states, in effect, nullifying federal laws.
I certainly don't mind an individual acting as a positive figure for people with no such examples, showing a way forward out of poverty or hardship. I just don't want such a person installed as a figurehead or by threat of Jackson's self-enriching tactics.
You could look at game stats. In this instance, since we're talking about athleticism, you could even look at physical stats like height, weight, arm length, speed, etc. could be considered objective.
Exactly. The stats are objective, but the final call about how to assemble the best team would involve all sorts of subjective reasoning. There are plenty of examples where a collection of superstars get beaten by a less "talented" team that plays better together. But I expect that almost everyone here agrees that if you were assembling a team to win a championship you wouldn't care if all 5 were black (or all white or all Chinese).
Of course the goal of a board of directors is not something as well defined and objective as "winning a championship."
Is trading one bias for a different bias a good solution?
Of course not.
The NFL has the Rooney Rule that mandates a team must interview at least one minority for a head coach position. Can anyone explain why the league has mostly minority players yet only a few minority head coaches? It all starts with opportunity.
There is a phrase I like to refer to: "It is not what happens to you, it is how you deal with it that counts." I know this well as I came from an incredibly disadvantaged background, even failed 3rd grade because of math. I now sit here as an accomplished software developer of 15 years. What I found once I got my priorities straight was that starting from a position of disadvantage one can often learn things their competitor can not by coming from such a position.
You have to let it go. Life isn't fair. Continuing to play the victim is not constructive and is only waste of time. Go forth and teach these principals Jesse and give your cause some legitimacy.
The NFL has the Rooney Rule that mandates a team must interview at least one minority for a head coach position. Can anyone explain why the league has mostly minority players yet only a few minority head coaches? It all starts with opportunity.
Playing football at the NFL level is something like 90% physical and 10% mental for most positions. Coaching is 100% mental. Why should we assume that a large number of head coaches would be black even in a completely "fair" system (whatever that might mean)? Aren't there something like 3 black head coaches now (out of 30?). That isn't far off from the US population as a whole. How many head coaches are there that played in the NFL as players, I would guess it's around 25%.
Edit: it looks like the answer is 4 out of 32, or 12%. Just about perfect fit for the US population as a whole. Now we just need 6-8 Latino coaches and an Asian coach or two.
You work to alter the rotten foundation it sits upon. Putting on icing on a turd only makes it appear like it's not a piece of shit.
Some people have been doing that and it has delivered results -- just not fast enough or on a large enough scale
I lived in Las Vegas 1963-1968.
It was a totally segregated town -- all blacks lived in the separate City of North Las Vegas.
Blacks were not allowed to eat, drink or gamble in the casinos nor stay in the hotels.
Sammy Davis, likely, was the most famous black entertainer (of that era) appearing in hotels on the strip -- he would sell out the showroom, but he couldn't stay in the hotel.
What changed the situation wasn't Civil Rights, per se -- rather it was Howard Hughes buying multiple hotels/casinos. Integration was more of an idea whose time had come (to Las Vegas). Before Hughes, the casinos were run by the mob and they catered to gamblers -- rooms, meals, shows, drinks were all comped. When Hughes entered the marketplace, each cost center was put on a profit basis. The profit motive was the driving force that facilitated the idea whose time had come.
I think that rebuilding the devastation and despair of US inner cities is an idea whose time has come! The politicians have failed! We need a different solution! We can put men on the moon and a computer in a watch -- why can't we fix this?
Maybe Apple should include a non-white person on their BOD. But, if it is just for appearances, I think it would be a mistake. It should be someone who can reach out and influence other corporations, the disadvantaged and the general public -- and benefit Apple and the world community at large.
My first choice would be Ervin Jackson.
Who'd be your choice?
With no sarcasm or offense intended, who is Ervin Jackson?
Ohh... My bad! Corrected everywhere I could: Ervin Johnson!
Some people have been doing that and it has delivered results -- just not fast enough or on a large enough scale
I lived in Las Vegas 1963-1968.
It was a totally segregated town -- all blacks lived in the separate City of North Las Vegas.
Blacks were not allowed to eat, drink or gamble in the casinos nor stay in the hotels.
Sammy Davis, likely, was the most famous black entertainer (of that era) appearing in hotels on the strip -- he would sell out the showroom, but he couldn't stay in the hotel.
What changed the situation wasn't Civil Rights, per se -- rather it was Howard Hughes buying multiple hotels/casinos. Integration was more of an idea whose time had come (to Las Vegas). Before Hughes, the casinos were run by the mob and they catered to gamblers -- rooms, meals, shows, drinks were all comped. When Hughes entered the marketplace, each cost center was put on a profit basis. The profit motive was the driving force that facilitated the idea whose time had come.
I think that rebuilding the devastation and despair of US inner cities is an idea whose time has come! The politicians have failed! We need a different solution! We can put men on the moon and a computer in a watch -- why can't we fix this?
Who can fix this?
Howard Hughes did change the foundation, unless I am misinformed and he only let Sammy Davis and no other non-whites stay in his hotels. The foundation is changed by people saying "**** you! This isn't right."
Jackson should spend more time lecturing his community followers about increasing graduation rates and promoting STEM classes in local schools. I'd love to see more diversity in tech, but from my hiring experience over the past twenty years, we get tons of applicants of Caucasian, Indian, and Asian descent, but next to zero African Americans. Not 12%, not 4%, nor 2%, but practically zero. Applicants.
Solve that problem and we will see more diversity enter the Executive ranks.
As a Black man, father of three (all of the same mother, from whom I am currently divorced) I am really saddened by this thread, but I am not surprised. I have found that there are a lot intellectuals who are not enlightened, or maybe I just disagree with them. Not that asking for diversity on boards and in upper management is a bad, thing, it isn't. We are mostly Americans and can ask anyone for anything we want. I'm not sure that such a move would make that much of a difference anyway, by the time a Black person in the corporate world raises that high up the ranks, they are so far removed from my realty, that they may as well be Chinese for all the good it would do.
It would be cool if people read the article and just said "Okay." But to mention Jesse Jackson in certain communities is like tossing gasoline on the flames of racial hatred at the worst and Afrophobia at the least. It is easy for someone to hide behind a 'best man for the job' ideology, but anyone who has ever set foot in the corporate world knows that such is not hardly true in hiring or advancing up the corporate ladder. I' sure you know people who are in positions they are totally inadequate for and quite white about it.
The sad thing is that over the last 50 years, as America led the world in this technical ascent, they pretty much locked us out of it. Sure there is the occasional Neil deGrasse-Tyson to shake the pillars of the corporate world, but for the most part, public education is pretty punitive to Black people, especially males. Some people think it is a series of cultural issues that society at large has no ownership in. Things like not prioritizing education, being born in a single parent household, or some other metric that makes Black people look like the second class citizens we get treated as. Those things may be a factor, but they are not nearly the factor that my face is.
When people see us, whether we are in a suit and tie, or khakis and polo, they tend to think us less intellectually capable than our white counterparts, but more likely to steal and commit other crimes, than our white counterparts. And they think these things regardless of their own race, talk about built in bias! Sure, there will always be some who are able to break through those biases in the right people, but I an tell you first hand, the unfairness of it does wear on you.
Unlike Alabamian Tim Cook, I don't have the wiggle room to use less than perfect grammar. Having grown up in Chicago, it's like I had to learn a new language. Not that I am the grammatically incorrect type mind you, its that I can be kind of scary if I speak with too much Black in my voice. Going to work, I had to take on a persona that wasn't mine, because my vernacular, though quite inventive, scared managers I've worked for. So when it came time to advance, I was often considered too risky. That sucked.
Instead of looking at the pool of students over the last 50 years, America decided it would be easer to import than to educate. Because those decisions were made on corporate boards across the nation, we've enjoyed a whole set of extra hurdles that effectively turn away a lot of talent we could be growing. I could give you stats or anecdotes, but I know that it is essentially futile. I've seen that look in your eyes before. I'll show myself out.
I think there are a good number of very solid arguments that could be made proving that the poor and disadvantaged have been harmed more than helped due to the work of our government and politicians. Getting a leg up when one is down is one thing, assisting the truly needy is one thing (however one chooses to define these concepts), but creating lifelong dependency is quite another.
Regarding Apple, I've seen a lot of generosity from them in terms of their mission and the effects of selling products that offer great value in terms of education and opportunity (specifically, for those willing to take the time to learn development for apps). It's really up to students and individuals to take advantage of the things life presents them with. A program alone cannot affect one's personal drive toward success in the face of extreme adversity. Arguably, the road to success is populated with people dead set on rising above their limitations.
As to the disadvantages facing kids from families with legal problems, it's been shown that minorities are disproportionately affected by drug laws, for example. US drug laws are thankfully starting to change because of the states, in effect, nullifying federal laws.
I certainly don't mind an individual acting as a positive figure for people with no such examples, showing a way forward out of poverty or hardship. I just don't want such a person installed as a figurehead or by threat of Jackson's self-enriching tactics.
I, mostly, agree. Especially with your last paragraph/
However, much as I despise Jessie's methods, I do have to admit that he brought forth an interesting discussion -- on an issue that needs to be addressed by those in power in the private sector. Hopefully, Silicon Valley (and other) executives are all abuzz with discussions.
If we don't resolve this, there will be nothing to leave our children.
Things like not prioritizing education, being born in a single parent household, or some other metric that makes Black people look like the second class citizens we get treated as. Those things may be a factor, but they are not nearly the factor that my face is.
I'm not following. I assume by face you mean the pigmentation of your skin but I'm not following your argument if you actually believe your skin colour the cause for bigotry in society. If someone was scared by how you look or how you speak because it represents a "race" they feared the problem is clearly with that person and the events that lead to that irrational belief. The same goes for any and all bigoted thoughts one might have.
Playing football at the NFL level is something like 90% physical and 10% mental for most positions. Coaching is 100% mental. Why should we assume that a large number of head coaches would be black even in a completely "fair" system (whatever that might mean)? Aren't there something like 3 black head coaches now (out of 30?). That isn't far off from the US population as a whole. How many head coaches are there that played in the NFL as players, I would guess it's around 25%.
Edit: it looks like the answer is 4 out of 32, or 12%. Just about perfect fit for the US population as a whole. Now we just need 6-8 Latino coaches and an Asian coach or two.
Did you just say coaching is 100% mental? I know you don't mean to imply minorities can't do the mental aspect of the game.
Why are you comparing to the US pop as a whole?
It's all about opportunity. Right now minorities aren't getting enough opportunities to go on interviews for mgmt positions.
Comments
It's "Magic"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Johnson
You work to alter the rotten foundation it sits upon. Putting on icing on a turd only makes it appear like it's not a piece of shit.
You could look at game stats. In this instance, since we're talking about athleticism, you could even look at physical stats like height, weight, arm length, speed, etc. could be considered objective.
It's "Magic"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Johnson
That's what I assumed, but of course Jackson <> Johnson.
I generally agree with that ... Yet, we have disadvantaged people/locals in this world and their situation is growing worse in spite of the governments/politicians efforts.
Apple is a very visible, very profitable company with a good corporate conscience. What if Apple decided that it is to Apple's and the larger world community's benefit to address some of these issues.
As others have posted, the black community in the US is disproportionally disadvantaged -- jobs, arrests, family breakdown, education, opportunity ...
What If Apple decided implement a program to disrupt this specific problem.
I don't think throwing money at the problem will solve it -- nor just talking the talk. To be effective, I think that the person that can do thisl has to be black and successful -- and be able to sell a solution.
Maybe hiring is the wrong approach -- say, employing the services and giving him a bully pulpit!
I think there are a good number of very solid arguments that could be made proving that the poor and disadvantaged have been harmed more than helped due to the work of our government and politicians. Getting a leg up when one is down is one thing, assisting the truly needy is one thing (however one chooses to define these concepts), but creating lifelong dependency is quite another.
Regarding Apple, I've seen a lot of generosity from them in terms of their mission and the effects of selling products that offer great value in terms of education and opportunity (specifically, for those willing to take the time to learn development for apps). It's really up to students and individuals to take advantage of the things life presents them with. A program alone cannot affect one's personal drive toward success in the face of extreme adversity. Arguably, the road to success is populated with people dead set on rising above their limitations.
As to the disadvantages facing kids from families with legal problems, it's been shown that minorities are disproportionately affected by drug laws, for example. US drug laws are thankfully starting to change because of the states, in effect, nullifying federal laws.
I certainly don't mind an individual acting as a positive figure for people with no such examples, showing a way forward out of poverty or hardship. I just don't want such a person installed as a figurehead or by threat of Jackson's self-enriching tactics.
You could look at game stats. In this instance, since we're talking about athleticism, you could even look at physical stats like height, weight, arm length, speed, etc. could be considered objective.
Exactly. The stats are objective, but the final call about how to assemble the best team would involve all sorts of subjective reasoning. There are plenty of examples where a collection of superstars get beaten by a less "talented" team that plays better together. But I expect that almost everyone here agrees that if you were assembling a team to win a championship you wouldn't care if all 5 were black (or all white or all Chinese).
Of course the goal of a board of directors is not something as well defined and objective as "winning a championship."
Of course not.
The NFL has the Rooney Rule that mandates a team must interview at least one minority for a head coach position. Can anyone explain why the league has mostly minority players yet only a few minority head coaches? It all starts with opportunity.
There is a phrase I like to refer to: "It is not what happens to you, it is how you deal with it that counts." I know this well as I came from an incredibly disadvantaged background, even failed 3rd grade because of math. I now sit here as an accomplished software developer of 15 years. What I found once I got my priorities straight was that starting from a position of disadvantage one can often learn things their competitor can not by coming from such a position.
You have to let it go. Life isn't fair. Continuing to play the victim is not constructive and is only waste of time. Go forth and teach these principals Jesse and give your cause some legitimacy.
Of course not.
The NFL has the Rooney Rule that mandates a team must interview at least one minority for a head coach position. Can anyone explain why the league has mostly minority players yet only a few minority head coaches? It all starts with opportunity.
Playing football at the NFL level is something like 90% physical and 10% mental for most positions. Coaching is 100% mental. Why should we assume that a large number of head coaches would be black even in a completely "fair" system (whatever that might mean)? Aren't there something like 3 black head coaches now (out of 30?). That isn't far off from the US population as a whole. How many head coaches are there that played in the NFL as players, I would guess it's around 25%.
Edit: it looks like the answer is 4 out of 32, or 12%. Just about perfect fit for the US population as a whole. Now we just need 6-8 Latino coaches and an Asian coach or two.
I don't understand the issue.
Most i devices are sold in white, black and grey already!
Some people have been doing that and it has delivered results -- just not fast enough or on a large enough scale
I lived in Las Vegas 1963-1968.
It was a totally segregated town -- all blacks lived in the separate City of North Las Vegas.
Blacks were not allowed to eat, drink or gamble in the casinos nor stay in the hotels.
Sammy Davis, likely, was the most famous black entertainer (of that era) appearing in hotels on the strip -- he would sell out the showroom, but he couldn't stay in the hotel.
What changed the situation wasn't Civil Rights, per se -- rather it was Howard Hughes buying multiple hotels/casinos. Integration was more of an idea whose time had come (to Las Vegas). Before Hughes, the casinos were run by the mob and they catered to gamblers -- rooms, meals, shows, drinks were all comped. When Hughes entered the marketplace, each cost center was put on a profit basis. The profit motive was the driving force that facilitated the idea whose time had come.
I think that rebuilding the devastation and despair of US inner cities is an idea whose time has come! The politicians have failed! We need a different solution! We can put men on the moon and a computer in a watch -- why can't we fix this?
Who can fix this?
Ohh... My bad! Corrected everywhere I could: Ervin Johnson!
Howard Hughes did change the foundation, unless I am misinformed and he only let Sammy Davis and no other non-whites stay in his hotels. The foundation is changed by people saying "**** you! This isn't right."
Solve that problem and we will see more diversity enter the Executive ranks.
As a Black man, father of three (all of the same mother, from whom I am currently divorced) I am really saddened by this thread, but I am not surprised. I have found that there are a lot intellectuals who are not enlightened, or maybe I just disagree with them. Not that asking for diversity on boards and in upper management is a bad, thing, it isn't. We are mostly Americans and can ask anyone for anything we want. I'm not sure that such a move would make that much of a difference anyway, by the time a Black person in the corporate world raises that high up the ranks, they are so far removed from my realty, that they may as well be Chinese for all the good it would do.
It would be cool if people read the article and just said "Okay." But to mention Jesse Jackson in certain communities is like tossing gasoline on the flames of racial hatred at the worst and Afrophobia at the least. It is easy for someone to hide behind a 'best man for the job' ideology, but anyone who has ever set foot in the corporate world knows that such is not hardly true in hiring or advancing up the corporate ladder. I' sure you know people who are in positions they are totally inadequate for and quite white about it.
The sad thing is that over the last 50 years, as America led the world in this technical ascent, they pretty much locked us out of it. Sure there is the occasional Neil deGrasse-Tyson to shake the pillars of the corporate world, but for the most part, public education is pretty punitive to Black people, especially males. Some people think it is a series of cultural issues that society at large has no ownership in. Things like not prioritizing education, being born in a single parent household, or some other metric that makes Black people look like the second class citizens we get treated as. Those things may be a factor, but they are not nearly the factor that my face is.
When people see us, whether we are in a suit and tie, or khakis and polo, they tend to think us less intellectually capable than our white counterparts, but more likely to steal and commit other crimes, than our white counterparts. And they think these things regardless of their own race, talk about built in bias! Sure, there will always be some who are able to break through those biases in the right people, but I an tell you first hand, the unfairness of it does wear on you.
Unlike Alabamian Tim Cook, I don't have the wiggle room to use less than perfect grammar. Having grown up in Chicago, it's like I had to learn a new language. Not that I am the grammatically incorrect type mind you, its that I can be kind of scary if I speak with too much Black in my voice. Going to work, I had to take on a persona that wasn't mine, because my vernacular, though quite inventive, scared managers I've worked for. So when it came time to advance, I was often considered too risky. That sucked.
Instead of looking at the pool of students over the last 50 years, America decided it would be easer to import than to educate. Because those decisions were made on corporate boards across the nation, we've enjoyed a whole set of extra hurdles that effectively turn away a lot of talent we could be growing. I could give you stats or anecdotes, but I know that it is essentially futile. I've seen that look in your eyes before. I'll show myself out.
"Those things may be a factor, but they are not nearly the factor that my face is"
?And yet it is precisely "those things" that are the most accurate predictor of poverty and low lifetime earnings and accomplishment, NOT skin color.
"Things like not prioritizing education, being born in a single parent household,"
?Look at the lifetime earnings of a H.S. dropout lately? Or the unemployment rate? Truancy is a family challenge.
I, mostly, agree. Especially with your last paragraph/
However, much as I despise Jessie's methods, I do have to admit that he brought forth an interesting discussion -- on an issue that needs to be addressed by those in power in the private sector. Hopefully, Silicon Valley (and other) executives are all abuzz with discussions.
If we don't resolve this, there will be nothing to leave our children.
Après Moi [nous], le déluge!
I'm not following. I assume by face you mean the pigmentation of your skin but I'm not following your argument if you actually believe your skin colour the cause for bigotry in society. If someone was scared by how you look or how you speak because it represents a "race" they feared the problem is clearly with that person and the events that lead to that irrational belief. The same goes for any and all bigoted thoughts one might have.
Ohh... My bad! Corrected everywhere I could: Ervin Johnson!
"Earvin" :-)
Did you just say coaching is 100% mental? I know you don't mean to imply minorities can't do the mental aspect of the game.
Why are you comparing to the US pop as a whole?
It's all about opportunity. Right now minorities aren't getting enough opportunities to go on interviews for mgmt positions.