Isn't it funny how everybody was saying they'd accept no less than a 1GHz G4 iMac and a G5 tower, and now everyone is happy even though nothing seemed to meet their expectations?
I bet when Apple revs their PowerMacs with 1GHz G4s everyone will be saying that it's only a matter of months before a 2.4GHz G5.
<strong>apple builds this up to be huge, then wonders why people aren't happy?
...
what the hell is their problem? this keynote had the opportunity to be a huge success, but instead it feels like a failure, and the exact same hardware was released.
...
they shot themselves in the foot here
</strong><hr></blockquote>
A
No they did not shoot themselves in the foot.
B
I promise that Apple's not wondering "why people aren't happy".
C
The keynote feels like a failure to somewhere areound 3 - 7000 people: everyone else *didn't* see the hype, hear the hype nor care about the hype--nor will most people who buy a new iMac ever know that MacwordSF even exists.
The Point
The new iMac is an amazing machine for the price and the keynote was a fantastic summary of where Apple the Company is right now.
<strong>for those who are telling people here to stop whining about what they didn't get, and rather to focus on what did show up, i have three words.
It's Apple's Fault
this same keynote, no hype, and it's a great keynote and everyone is happy.
.
.
.
show me one frickin' thing that's way beyond what everyone thought was coming this year and i'll change my tune. until then, expect most people who have anything to do with an apple rumor site to be sorely disappointed.
apple builds this up to be huge, then wonders why people aren't happy?
what the hell is their problem? this keynote had the opportunity to be a huge success, but instead it feels like a failure, and the exact same hardware was released.
.
.
.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Gee, last time I checked, there was only one person responsible for my own happiness: ME. It's a sad state of affairs if someone places the burden of one's emotional state on a company.
If you're feeling disappointed, there's only one person to 'blame' -- yourSELF. If you don't want to feel disappointed, then DON'T. It's really that simple. You are responsible for your emotions. No one else.
(BTW I saw the keynote and thought that the iMac looks tres slick, and iPhoto rocks, so I'm pretty happy about it all).
<strong>Apple just screwed itself</strong><hr></blockquote>
Some hints:
1. Now, a PowerMac + 15" ASD roughly equivalent to the high end iMac II is about $1,200 more expensive. For that $1,200 you get:
+ 67 more Mhz more and a L3 backsize cache (+10% perf.)
+ great expandability
- 128 MB less RAM
- a noisy fan
Anyone interested in buying one? No, thanks?
2. PowerMac G4 Crystal clear promo ends on 31.1.02 after being extended for a month.
3. the latest PowerBook G4 speed-bump happened as part of a special event on 16.10.01, two weeks before the end of the PowerBook G4 promo - which had been extended by a month to end on 31.10.01 ;-)
4. the iMac II introduction takes several months
So I come to the following conclusions: Without a significant update, Power Mac G4 sales will be cannibalized by iMac II sale. This and the ending of the crystal clear promotion on 31.1.02 signals the introduction of a PM G4 successor in January or early February. It will be based on a new processor not used in current Apple hardware (Apollo or G5) and therefore free the biggest part of Motorola's PPC 7451 output for use in the new iMac. This will in turn enable the production of the cheapet iMac models in HUGE quantities.
If they had released a new Powermac, then the crys would be "NO PDA".
Apple just is not going to announce 2 major products at once.
Apple could have done a speed bump probably, but why?
They are holding off until they give you all something mindblowing.
Yeah, a incremental upgrade would have been great.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
what the hell is wrong with you? Apple can't handle releasing two major updates? they released 3 a year and half ago at MWNY 2000. they released the TiBook and PowerMac G4 733 w/Superdrive last year at MWSF.
I promise that Apple's not wondering "why people aren't happy".
C
The keynote feels like a failure to somewhere areound 3 - 7000 people: everyone else *didn't* see the hype, hear the hype nor care about the hype--nor will most people who buy a new iMac ever know that MacwordSF even exists.
The Point
The new iMac is an amazing machine for the price and the keynote was a fantastic summary of where Apple the Company is right now.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well put.
We all should have forseen no new PowerMacs when they extended the Displays promo a month.
i think the biggest problem apple has now it that it won't sell much desktop systems this quarter. who will buy powermacs now, the imac is a much better deal and offers almost the same performance! who will buy an imac g3 now, except some beginners that don't have the money to afford the new one? apple will have to live from pre-orders and laptops, as the new imacs won't ship immediately, and therefore i really doubt if this quarter will be a huge financial success (or am i wrong on this one?).
therefore they will have to update the powermacs within the next... lets say, 10 weeks (or better less).
let's be honest: 1 ghz would have been possible for the pm, at least - 133 mhz in 6 months, that should not be too hard. then everybody would have been at least a bit satisfied about the pro machines. so why are they waiting? a 1 ghz top model pm wouldn't have taken the attention off the imac.
i think the powermacs will need at least a mhz advantage of 20-30% over the imac, so that they can be marketed as "pro" machines. that would mean 1+ ghz on all models. maybe they'll do it with apollo, maybe we'll see a g5, who knows.
but i would not blame motorola for the fact that the powermacs were not bumped, this time it's probably really apples marketing strategy that's responsible. there must be 1 ghz chips that could have been used at least in the top model, like i said, 133 mhz in 6 months should really have been possible.
about the new imac:
- great hardware for the price, all models
- unfortunately a bit costy for beginners, but with falling lcd prices this may change
- very flexible tech design for apple, they will be able to use other lcd screens later, like a 17". increasing the screen size was not possible with the former imac designs
<strong>There must be something planned. I had told my brother to wait until after today to buy his new system, but Im not sure what to say now. The towers all pale in comparisson. An 867+15" LCD will cost about $1200 more than an iMac with a super drive. Im not sure what to tell him.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Tell him to buy an iMac. ;-) Really, the iMac is encroaching into professional level. I know, I know, the screen is small. But you know, a lot of people got by doing graphic work with smaller screens for years. I'm strongly considering this new machine.
<strong>I don't believe how stupid Apple is. How could they not release any new Powermacs? The PMs suck and they leave them alone... how retarted is that?</strong><hr></blockquote> It's like i said Apple Computers are soooo slowwwwwww!! Ha, Ha,!!!!!!!
The reason I am disappointed by this MW, is not what they showed... It is because Apple hyped it so much. "Beyond the rumor sites?" Hardly.... We expected someting close to this, but with Apple claiming it would go where no PC has gone, it raised my expectations above what was shown... Don't get me wrong. I absolutely love the new iMac. Yet, it is not what i was thinking Apple would show based on what they said... The thing I am wondering now is, what if they will show the G5 or upgraded G4 tommorow? Giving us 1 day to marvel (or fume) over the new iMac, so we get the idea stuck in our minds as awesome, along with rotting iPhoto as pretty cool... Then tommorow showing off the REAL kickers.. Moving the Keynote to today, could possibly alloow for this. While I doubt this will happen, almost sure it will not, it would make perfect sense.
<strong>While Apple was busy hyping this expo, AMD released the XP 2000+ and Intel released the P4 2.2 For the first time ever, I find myself considering buying an Athlon based PC. 6 months without an update is terrible for the PowerMacs. I don't care if they are waiting to "wow" us. I will take whatever slightly faster processor Apple has RIGHT NOW. I would take a 1GHz G4 TODAY over a 1.4GHz G5 in 4 months!</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>Today's announcements were great! Especially iPhoto - I've spent hours color correcting pictures in PhotoShop when now, with iPhoto, I can do the same in 5 minutes. Beautiful prints due to ColorSync!
</strong><hr></blockquote>
The only color "correction" options I see in iPhoto are to converting a photo to black and white, and redeye correction.
Looks like I'm still gonna need Photoshop for auto-level correction of color and contrast.
Or is there something in iPhoto you are using to do this, that I am missing?
<strong>While Apple was busy hyping this expo, AMD released the XP 2000+ and Intel released the P4 2.2 For the first time ever, I find myself considering buying an Athlon based PC. 6 months without an update is terrible for the PowerMacs. I don't care if they are waiting to "wow" us. I will take whatever slightly faster processor Apple has RIGHT NOW. I would take a 1GHz G4 TODAY over a 1.4GHz G5 in 4 months!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yep - what a dissapointment - are people really that easily suckered into thinking what a top design it is - it looks like a shaving mirror to me!
I must be missing something - but is the imac a consumer computer - if so, consumers must have got richer!
Surely - a 15" studio display in a case 2" deeper to carry the hardware would have been neat - could even hang it on a wall!
Times running out apple - people want to see something faster - me included - I am now looking at AMDs and intels and its getting easier to build your own!
Ship times from the Apple Store for all three tower models, standard or BTO, is listed at "10 days". If there's no imminent update, there should be stock, and hence the standard models should show "1-2 days".
That, combined with the Jan 31 display promotion expiration makes me hope (and believe) that an update will be announced within the next two weeks. My gut reaction is "well then why didn't they announce at Macworld, even if they won't ship for a while?"...and the answer is that Steve is a nutcase and doesn't want to detract from his iMac. Which is fair enough -- it's a nice machine, but it's not what I'm personally after.
do you realise that apple is trying to get more iMac sales?
they know people want this computer, and by not releasing new g4s(or g5s)they are making people that HAD g4 towers consider buying this computer, think about it, the current iMac is about as powerful as the current g4s, its sexier and its cheaper, this way apple gets maximum iMac sales for a while then they will release the next powermac, which I'm sure will be so awesome everyone will sell their iMacs and get one
all I want in the next powermac is
ddr ram at 333mhz and a 333mhz system bus
ppc g5 running at 1.4or higher and a 5.1 channel surround system
its possible I might get 3 of these things, but we'll see
if apple's next powermac is maxed out at 1 ghz and has 133 mhz system bus and 133 SDram, then that ****ing sucks
I think the key thing is that Apple did not even touch the powermacs.
Now, combine that with the new iMac getting a G4, and I think the writing is one the wall for the next Powermacs: we will have G5 powermacs very soon.
All in all, a solid expo, but Apple hyped it a bit too much.
But damn, that new iMac is awesome! I want one. It's a fine piece of engineering, and the best part is that it has a G4. Now that the iMac has altivec, more developers will code for it, and the MHz gap will become even less important.
Really, if you think about it, these new iMacs are freakin' FAST. They are even pretty good for graphics, with 32 MB vRAM, that's not bad for gaming.
My only complaint is that the video card isn't upgradable. But I would have been surprised if it were...this is the disposable iMac that everyone knows and loves.
I spoke w/my brother a while ago. He's actually very interested in the new iMac. The way he sees it, he can spend less money, get a comparable system, and have cash left over for SW & a graphics tablet.
Comments
I bet when Apple revs their PowerMacs with 1GHz G4s everyone will be saying that it's only a matter of months before a 2.4GHz G5.
<strong>apple builds this up to be huge, then wonders why people aren't happy?
...
what the hell is their problem? this keynote had the opportunity to be a huge success, but instead it feels like a failure, and the exact same hardware was released.
...
they shot themselves in the foot here
</strong><hr></blockquote>
A
No they did not shoot themselves in the foot.
B
I promise that Apple's not wondering "why people aren't happy".
C
The keynote feels like a failure to somewhere areound 3 - 7000 people: everyone else *didn't* see the hype, hear the hype nor care about the hype--nor will most people who buy a new iMac ever know that MacwordSF even exists.
The Point
The new iMac is an amazing machine for the price and the keynote was a fantastic summary of where Apple the Company is right now.
<strong>for those who are telling people here to stop whining about what they didn't get, and rather to focus on what did show up, i have three words.
It's Apple's Fault
this same keynote, no hype, and it's a great keynote and everyone is happy.
.
.
.
show me one frickin' thing that's way beyond what everyone thought was coming this year and i'll change my tune. until then, expect most people who have anything to do with an apple rumor site to be sorely disappointed.
apple builds this up to be huge, then wonders why people aren't happy?
what the hell is their problem? this keynote had the opportunity to be a huge success, but instead it feels like a failure, and the exact same hardware was released.
.
.
.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Gee, last time I checked, there was only one person responsible for my own happiness: ME. It's a sad state of affairs if someone places the burden of one's emotional state on a company.
If you're feeling disappointed, there's only one person to 'blame' -- yourSELF. If you don't want to feel disappointed, then DON'T. It's really that simple. You are responsible for your emotions. No one else.
(BTW I saw the keynote and thought that the iMac looks tres slick, and iPhoto rocks, so I'm pretty happy about it all).
[ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: chromos ]</p>
Amorya
<strong>No new PMacs until the LCD rebate expires at the end of January.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
EXACTLY !
I was waiting to see some one else realize this...
<a href="http://www.apple.com/promo/crystalclear/"; target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/promo/crystalclear/</a>;
Special event early in January?
Pre-announcement tomorrow or later this week?
<strong>Apple just screwed itself</strong><hr></blockquote>
Some hints:
1. Now, a PowerMac + 15" ASD roughly equivalent to the high end iMac II is about $1,200 more expensive. For that $1,200 you get:
+ 67 more Mhz more and a L3 backsize cache (+10% perf.)
+ great expandability
- 128 MB less RAM
- a noisy fan
Anyone interested in buying one? No, thanks?
2. PowerMac G4 Crystal clear promo ends on 31.1.02 after being extended for a month.
3. the latest PowerBook G4 speed-bump happened as part of a special event on 16.10.01, two weeks before the end of the PowerBook G4 promo - which had been extended by a month to end on 31.10.01 ;-)
4. the iMac II introduction takes several months
So I come to the following conclusions: Without a significant update, Power Mac G4 sales will be cannibalized by iMac II sale. This and the ending of the crystal clear promotion on 31.1.02 signals the introduction of a PM G4 successor in January or early February. It will be based on a new processor not used in current Apple hardware (Apollo or G5) and therefore free the biggest part of Motorola's PPC 7451 output for use in the new iMac. This will in turn enable the production of the cheapet iMac models in HUGE quantities.
<strong>Stop crying!!
If they had released a new Powermac, then the crys would be "NO PDA".
Apple just is not going to announce 2 major products at once.
Apple could have done a speed bump probably, but why?
They are holding off until they give you all something mindblowing.
Yeah, a incremental upgrade would have been great.
what the hell is wrong with you? Apple can't handle releasing two major updates? they released 3 a year and half ago at MWNY 2000. they released the TiBook and PowerMac G4 733 w/Superdrive last year at MWSF.
give me a break. that is a dumb excuse.
<strong>
A
No they did not shoot themselves in the foot.
B
I promise that Apple's not wondering "why people aren't happy".
C
The keynote feels like a failure to somewhere areound 3 - 7000 people: everyone else *didn't* see the hype, hear the hype nor care about the hype--nor will most people who buy a new iMac ever know that MacwordSF even exists.
The Point
The new iMac is an amazing machine for the price and the keynote was a fantastic summary of where Apple the Company is right now.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well put.
We all should have forseen no new PowerMacs when they extended the Displays promo a month.
therefore they will have to update the powermacs within the next... lets say, 10 weeks (or better less).
let's be honest: 1 ghz would have been possible for the pm, at least - 133 mhz in 6 months, that should not be too hard. then everybody would have been at least a bit satisfied about the pro machines. so why are they waiting? a 1 ghz top model pm wouldn't have taken the attention off the imac.
i think the powermacs will need at least a mhz advantage of 20-30% over the imac, so that they can be marketed as "pro" machines. that would mean 1+ ghz on all models. maybe they'll do it with apollo, maybe we'll see a g5, who knows.
but i would not blame motorola for the fact that the powermacs were not bumped, this time it's probably really apples marketing strategy that's responsible. there must be 1 ghz chips that could have been used at least in the top model, like i said, 133 mhz in 6 months should really have been possible.
about the new imac:
- great hardware for the price, all models
- unfortunately a bit costy for beginners, but with falling lcd prices this may change
- very flexible tech design for apple, they will be able to use other lcd screens later, like a 17". increasing the screen size was not possible with the former imac designs
<strong>There must be something planned. I had told my brother to wait until after today to buy his new system, but Im not sure what to say now. The towers all pale in comparisson. An 867+15" LCD will cost about $1200 more than an iMac with a super drive. Im not sure what to tell him.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Tell him to buy an iMac. ;-) Really, the iMac is encroaching into professional level. I know, I know, the screen is small. But you know, a lot of people got by doing graphic work with smaller screens for years. I'm strongly considering this new machine.
<strong>I don't believe how stupid Apple is. How could they not release any new Powermacs? The PMs suck and they leave them alone... how retarted is that?</strong><hr></blockquote> It's like i said Apple Computers are soooo slowwwwwww!! Ha, Ha,!!!!!!!
<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
<strong>While Apple was busy hyping this expo, AMD released the XP 2000+ and Intel released the P4 2.2 For the first time ever, I find myself considering buying an Athlon based PC. 6 months without an update is terrible for the PowerMacs. I don't care if they are waiting to "wow" us. I will take whatever slightly faster processor Apple has RIGHT NOW. I would take a 1GHz G4 TODAY over a 1.4GHz G5 in 4 months!</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>Today's announcements were great! Especially iPhoto - I've spent hours color correcting pictures in PhotoShop when now, with iPhoto, I can do the same in 5 minutes. Beautiful prints due to ColorSync!
</strong><hr></blockquote>
The only color "correction" options I see in iPhoto are to converting a photo to black and white, and redeye correction.
Looks like I'm still gonna need Photoshop for auto-level correction of color and contrast.
Or is there something in iPhoto you are using to do this, that I am missing?
<strong>While Apple was busy hyping this expo, AMD released the XP 2000+ and Intel released the P4 2.2 For the first time ever, I find myself considering buying an Athlon based PC. 6 months without an update is terrible for the PowerMacs. I don't care if they are waiting to "wow" us. I will take whatever slightly faster processor Apple has RIGHT NOW. I would take a 1GHz G4 TODAY over a 1.4GHz G5 in 4 months!</strong><hr></blockquote>
I must be missing something - but is the imac a consumer computer - if so, consumers must have got richer!
Surely - a 15" studio display in a case 2" deeper to carry the hardware would have been neat - could even hang it on a wall!
Times running out apple - people want to see something faster - me included - I am now looking at AMDs and intels and its getting easier to build your own!
That, combined with the Jan 31 display promotion expiration makes me hope (and believe) that an update will be announced within the next two weeks. My gut reaction is "well then why didn't they announce at Macworld, even if they won't ship for a while?"...and the answer is that Steve is a nutcase and doesn't want to detract from his iMac. Which is fair enough -- it's a nice machine, but it's not what I'm personally after.
Alex
they know people want this computer, and by not releasing new g4s(or g5s)they are making people that HAD g4 towers consider buying this computer, think about it, the current iMac is about as powerful as the current g4s, its sexier and its cheaper, this way apple gets maximum iMac sales for a while then they will release the next powermac, which I'm sure will be so awesome everyone will sell their iMacs and get one
all I want in the next powermac is
ddr ram at 333mhz and a 333mhz system bus
ppc g5 running at 1.4or higher and a 5.1 channel surround system
its possible I might get 3 of these things, but we'll see
if apple's next powermac is maxed out at 1 ghz and has 133 mhz system bus and 133 SDram, then that ****ing sucks
Now, combine that with the new iMac getting a G4, and I think the writing is one the wall for the next Powermacs: we will have G5 powermacs very soon.
All in all, a solid expo, but Apple hyped it a bit too much.
But damn, that new iMac is awesome! I want one. It's a fine piece of engineering, and the best part is that it has a G4. Now that the iMac has altivec, more developers will code for it, and the MHz gap will become even less important.
Really, if you think about it, these new iMacs are freakin' FAST. They are even pretty good for graphics, with 32 MB vRAM, that's not bad for gaming.
My only complaint is that the video card isn't upgradable. But I would have been surprised if it were...this is the disposable iMac that everyone knows and loves.
Tell him to buy an iMac. ;-)
<hr></blockquote>
I spoke w/my brother a while ago. He's actually very interested in the new iMac. The way he sees it, he can spend less money, get a comparable system, and have cash left over for SW & a graphics tablet.