Every mockup of the iPhone 6 implies that iPhone will be thinner. iPhones have long been more power efficient than the competition, so perhaps the iPhone 6 will be able to deliver similar battery life to previous iPhones while delivering a larger display without a gain in weight, or with a minimal weight gain.
Amazon Fire phone: 5.65 oz, .35" thick
The Fire phone is nearly as thick as the iPhone 4S and weighs 43% more than the iPhone 5S. As stated above, the iPhone 6 will have a larger display, but I'll bet money it will not be thicker than the .30" iPhone 5S and it won't weigh much more, if it weighs more at all. This Amazon phone is a beast relative to what Apple will deliver as 2014 technology.
Yes, I AM a developer, and I work with MANY platforms, including Amazon's. And iOS. And Windows Phone. Etc.
The stuff I say comes from the perspective of someone having used all of these platforms extensively, and again I will say - I don't think many posters here are at all objective.
Sounds like you are spreading yourself thin. Perhaps that explains why you are so shallow.
You are the one who is not objective. You are all Amazon, all the time. You are not convincing anyone here. You are totally wasting your time. But you know that. You just need to keep piling on the BS because it is apparently what you are paid to do.
Very few developers, even iOS developers post here because they don't have the time. They are busy developing. You apparently have all the time in the world even though you supposedly develop for multiple platforms. Why are you even wasting your time here? You have so tuned everyone off with your Apple fan boy crap. Just give it a break.
Being objective doesn't mean sitting through hours of infomercials and giving them all the benefit of the doubt. It means being intelligent and discerning, so you can separate the wheat from the chaff without wasting all your time.
About the only thing I can say (and it might have already been said, but I'm not reading all the comments) is I like the picture of the device in someone's hand. Tells me 4.7 is PLENTY big for the iPhone6. Anything larger looks ridiculous.
I suspect it doesn't work as well as advertised. If it does . . . they may have something here. A lot of interesting ideas, actual innovation unlike what Samsung keeps pedaling.
Although no matter how good the phone, beating the iOS app store is an uphill battle, and I don't see that playing field leveling out anytime soon.
I suspect it doesn't work as well as advertised. If it does . . . they may have something here. A lot of interesting ideas, actual innovation unlike what Samsung keeps pedaling.
Anecdotally, it seems you are correct.
From Ars' press hands-on, it didn't blow them away due to problems that prevented the system from working smoothly and reliably. And this was with an Amazon rep standing next to them.
Best part of the Fire Phone video: The guy who says "I feel like I'm actually snowboarding" and on the phone screen is a very cartoony snowboarder. Very real.... If your on acid!
Also funny how they kept touting their maps like its revolutionary. A hot keyword with the anti-Apple press. I can't wait until Apple unleashes the Map update & everyone goes um... Oh F@&$! They raised the bar again!
I kept hearing about the amazing 3-D & turns out it's the lock screen shit Apple already had? Only Apple turned theirs down because people were getting sick or complaining! Lol!
MAYBE this phone will cut into Samsung sales but I can't see anyone turning away from iOS8 for this thing! Especially with the mavericks integration coming!
I'd like to know what Amazon was thinking with this... Killing Samsung? LG?
I like some of the hardware specs on Android devices, but the Android environment is a deal killer for me. Everything I've seen powered by Android other than a smartphone has been slow and crash prone. As for smart phone Androids, they fill the low-end niche, replacing dumb phones and feature phones. That is how everyone selling Android phones has been treating the Android ecosystem... throwaway trash. Apple has released 7 iPhones (and a few iPad models) since I last bought a cell phone, Samsung has released... 89 Samsung Galaxy branded devices. So, Apple releases one phone and/or tablet per year, Samsung releases 10. I'm not sure how anyone knows what they are buying.
So Amazon wants to jump into this as well? To sell their Amazon services and products? If that's the case, sell the phone at cost instead of trying to make it look like a high end device, because it certainly isn't, and this device will be absolutely useless outside the US, since Amazon doesn't offer streaming outside the US. (There's basically no incentive to have Amazon Prime outside the US, because it doesn't improve things when half the products are more expensive outside the US than ordering straight off the US site.)
This is not very helpful. Ever since Android 4.2, Android tablets and phones with good hardware are stable and perform well. And claiming that smart phone Androids fill the low end niche replacing dumb phones and feature phones is just not accurate. Samsung, LG, HTC and Nexus all have very good high end phones. Other manufacturers have quality mid-range phones that are capable of doing everything that most casual smartphone users want. With all due respect, if the Android space was throwaway trash, Apple would not be adopting Android form factors or incorporating Android features into IOS.
Yes, this is a forum for Apple fans, but Apple fans are tech fans and support Apple because Apple consistently makes the best tech. This means that people should be intellectually honest enough to acknowledge good hardware, good software - a good product - when it comes from people other than Apple. And the fact that trolls and Android fanboys come on here and spout their garbage is no excuse. If you can't admit that the HTC One or Galaxy Note 3 aren't quality products or if you claim that even a good midrange product like Sony Xperia or the Moto X is throwaway trash feature phone instead of a good device fully capable of smartphone tasks with decent performance, then you have no credibility, no basis for saying what makes Apple better. To put it another way, just because a BMW is better than a Lexus doesn't make a Lexus garbage. A BMW doesn't even made a (fully loaded) Honda garbage. And if you claim that it does, it just makes everything that you say about your BMW appear ridiculous - even when it is true - and using the rantings of the Lexus or Honda fans as excuses for saying things that simply are not true only makes it appear as if you secretly believe that your BMW isn't as great as you claim that it is.
This Amazon Phone won't fail because it is an Android phone. It won't even fail because it is an attempt to make an I-Phone caliber high end phone (and it really looks like their attempt to do so, to offer a quality product to customers, offends you for some reason). It will fail because it really isn't as good as the latest high end Android phones. Strip away the gimmicky cameras and 3D stuff and the OS and the specs are comparable (even inferior) to Samsung Galaxy S4, yet it costs an arm and a leg. But I guess to be able to say that, you will have to be able to admit that the Galaxy S4 was a good phone that sold 40 million units in 6 months.
Yes, I AM a developer, and I work with MANY platforms, including Amazon's. And iOS. And Windows Phone. Etc.
The stuff I say comes from the perspective of someone having used all of these platforms extensively, and again I will say - I don't think many posters here are at all objective.
Then show some nuanced analysis instead of evangelism and this incredible defensiveness about Amazon. You're not above the fanboy wars, you are a full participant.
Developer = objectivity. Uh-huh. You're wound way too tight to be objective. It's also an old meme on this site. Haven't you seen posts like "I have equal experience on Windows and Mac, so I have objectivity and you iSheep don't!" in Microsoft-related threads sometimes? You are pulling the same "platform experience" card out of the deck.
The most nuanced and objective developer I ever met was John Carmack, co-founder of id Software. He never took sides in the great nvidia vs. ATI flame wars of the early 2000s, instead he made clear and highly technical observations about each tech company. He did take sides in the OpenGL vs D3D conflict during that time, but it was always backed by clear, technical reasons, and a little of his own personal value judgment about what "do the right thing" meant. You sir, are no John Carmack. (And that's not an insult, because very few developers reach that level of mastery of their craft)
Dude, Amazon has a lot more THAN marketing muscle. THAN. Anyway, I think Apple's marketing is not about muscle, as you pointed out. It's about connecting with you. And I have to say, Amazon does not seem to be connecting with me at the moment. This whole idea of not carrying books of publishers they are trying to "negotiate with" makes me wonder if all the calls on the Amazon phone are going to go through. Can I call every number, or only the ones of companies Amazon is not in contract negotiations with.
What struck me is that most of the demos he showed could be approximated very well with only a gyroscope. He was always tilting the phone itself- which a gyroscope can accomplish, built into every iPhone since the iPhone 4. Especially the lockscreens, or the way he was browsing dresses. Easily accomplished with a gyroscope. Also There's a ton of jailbreak tweaks that give the 3D interface effect.
I guess the eye-tracking makes it a bit more accurate? Is it worth it, throwing all that tech in the phone for a feature that is dubious in usefulness or practicality? Uglifying the phone, adding bulk and weight, more points of failure, and straining the battery? Also, I played a dragon-riding game on the iPad that used the front camera for head-tracking and steering. Worked pretty damn well.
Then show some nuanced analysis instead of evangelism and this incredible defensiveness about Amazon. You're not above the fanboy wars, you are a full participant.
Developer = objectivity. Uh-huh. You're wound way too right to be objective. It's also an old meme on this site. Haven't you seen posts like "I have equal experience on Windows and Mac, so I have objectivity and you iSheep don't!" in Microsoft-related threads sometimes? You are pulling the same "platform experience" card out of the deck.
The most nuanced and objective developer I ever met was John Carmack, co-founder of id Software. He never took sides in the great nvidia vs. ATI flame wars of the early 2000s, instead he made clear and highly technical observations about each tech company. He did take sides in the OpenGL vs D3D conflict during that time, but it was always backed by clear, technical reasons, and a little of his own personal value judgment about what "do the right thing" meant. You sir, are no John Carmack. (And that's not an insult, because very few developers reach that level of mastery of their craft)
Well said. The "I'm a developer" line is laughauble. No developer worth their salt working on a single platform would have the time, motivation, or reason to go into threads like these for hours and defend something- let alone someone working on "multiple platforms" as he states. I'd love to see a list of stuff he's developed, but I very much doubt anything exists.
Oh, and tt92618 make sure you don't read the below link, arstechnica's hands-on of the phone. That site is one of the most objective I know of, but I guess they're all "Apple fanboys" because of the below quotes- many of which were predicted in this very thread, statements you mocked and bashed.
Otherwise, we didn't see transformative uses for head-tracked phone movements. In particular, the Amazon shopping app, which let us tilt the phone to flip through dress designs, felt a little too sensitive for our liking. The games we tested, Threes and Stagedive Legends, had absolutely terrible head-tracking implementations, quite frankly; the lag between motion and on-screen action was too unbearable, a la Kinect.
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In our brief demo, this wrist-jerking began to hurt very, very quickly, and when we said so, we were reminded that each app could have those menus brought up by swiping from the right-most or left-most edge of the screen. (Additionally, "back" is triggered by swiping from the bottom.) That introduced a whole new batch of problems, especially when dragging around a map screen to look for a coffee shop. It didn't take long to accidentally bring up the right-most "recent searches" menu or left-most "preferences" menu.
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Our results weren't quite as snappy as Bezos' presentation would lead you to believe. In particular, Firefly kept re-identifying a single book in the corner of the image, ignoring another book in our screen's dead-central zone even if we tapped the screen to focus.
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Pinch-zooming on our photos showed significant blur on photo details, particularly the letters on our keyboard. We'll test the heck out of this with review hardware, but we didn't walk away impressed.
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In fact, our general takeaway was one of shrugging our shoulders and remarking on the Android features we missed. The "home" screen is a giant mess of icons, and it can't be improved with custom widgets. According to representatives, the default Swype keyboard can't be replaced with a third-party option. The lack of dedicated Google apps on a mostly Android device, especially the oft-improving Google Maps, bummed us out.
The device seems okay but I am worried that these features will feel gimmicky.
The Firefly software seems pretty good, but not really tied to the hardware, it easily could be released for any other device (and may even eventually be release as a app on other platforms to drive sales to Amazon)
The "3D" seems really gimmicky to me. At best it's "nifty", i.e. in the maps, but not a "killer" feature. AND there are already apps that use this type of display on the Iphone (going way back to the at least the Iphone 4) . It's the "integrated" features seem really gimmicky, i.e. the scrolling seems just odd and probably more trouble that it's worth, the options "gestures" again, the navigation gestures, again, odd and not really any better than touch.
The "3D" seems really gimmicky to me. At best it's "nifty", i.e. in the maps, but not a "killer" feature. AND there are already apps that use this type of display on the Iphone (going way back to the at least the Iphone 4) . It's the "integrated" features seem really gimmicky, i.e. the scrolling seems just odd and probably more trouble that it's worth, the options "gestures" again, the navigation gestures, again, odd and not really any better than touch.
Just my opinion.
If Apple invented sliced bread, this would be Amazon's sliced bread with butter baked in. No, make that fancy butter. As far as smartphone functionality goes, the 3D face tracking--the way it's used here--is less useful than the Firefly and sign recognition. Machine vision is more practical.
Funny thing is: I never actually dismissed the Fire phone ([@]tt92618[/@] overreacted). I pretty much had the same reaction as you. 3D is a novelty, and when the newness wears off, it won't be the thing that keeps sales going. To me, it's clear this phone is really a strategy to grow Amazon's digital goods business (music, movies, books, TV shows). If Apple is about user experience, Google is about open and free, then Amazon is about funneling sales of their online business. The 3D feature is just a headliner--something people will remember then they think of this phone. Apple tries to do the same with each iPhone release, such as Facetime, Siri or the first 64-bit mobile CPU.
Comments
Why does one company have to kill another company to be successful? This isn't Westeros
iPhone 5S: 3.95 oz, .30" thick
Every mockup of the iPhone 6 implies that iPhone will be thinner. iPhones have long been more power efficient than the competition, so perhaps the iPhone 6 will be able to deliver similar battery life to previous iPhones while delivering a larger display without a gain in weight, or with a minimal weight gain.
Amazon Fire phone: 5.65 oz, .35" thick
The Fire phone is nearly as thick as the iPhone 4S and weighs 43% more than the iPhone 5S. As stated above, the iPhone 6 will have a larger display, but I'll bet money it will not be thicker than the .30" iPhone 5S and it won't weigh much more, if it weighs more at all. This Amazon phone is a beast relative to what Apple will deliver as 2014 technology.
’said.
Holy competition Batman![/QUOTE]
In what capacity?
Why does one company have to kill another company to be successful? This isn't Westeros
In the end... everybody dies... or so it seems.
All men must die, unless you're from the Iron Islands then it's 'what is dead may never die'
All men must die, unless you're from the Iron Islands then it's 'what is dead may never die'
Which brings us back to the Amazon Fire Phone... if the Kindle Fire is any indication.
Although no matter how good the phone, beating the iOS app store is an uphill battle, and I don't see that playing field leveling out anytime soon.
Anecdotally, it seems you are correct.
From Ars' press hands-on, it didn't blow them away due to problems that prevented the system from working smoothly and reliably. And this was with an Amazon rep standing next to them.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/06/amazon-fire-phone-hands-on-double-vision/
The guy who says "I feel like I'm actually snowboarding" and on the phone screen is a very cartoony snowboarder. Very real.... If your on acid!
Also funny how they kept touting their maps like its revolutionary. A hot keyword with the anti-Apple press. I can't wait until Apple unleashes the Map update & everyone goes um... Oh F@&$! They raised the bar again!
I kept hearing about the amazing 3-D & turns out it's the lock screen shit Apple already had? Only Apple turned theirs down because people were getting sick or complaining! Lol!
MAYBE this phone will cut into Samsung sales but I can't see anyone turning away from iOS8 for this thing! Especially with the mavericks integration coming!
I'd like to know what Amazon was thinking with this... Killing Samsung? LG?
I like some of the hardware specs on Android devices, but the Android environment is a deal killer for me. Everything I've seen powered by Android other than a smartphone has been slow and crash prone. As for smart phone Androids, they fill the low-end niche, replacing dumb phones and feature phones. That is how everyone selling Android phones has been treating the Android ecosystem... throwaway trash. Apple has released 7 iPhones (and a few iPad models) since I last bought a cell phone, Samsung has released... 89 Samsung Galaxy branded devices. So, Apple releases one phone and/or tablet per year, Samsung releases 10. I'm not sure how anyone knows what they are buying.
So Amazon wants to jump into this as well? To sell their Amazon services and products? If that's the case, sell the phone at cost instead of trying to make it look like a high end device, because it certainly isn't, and this device will be absolutely useless outside the US, since Amazon doesn't offer streaming outside the US. (There's basically no incentive to have Amazon Prime outside the US, because it doesn't improve things when half the products are more expensive outside the US than ordering straight off the US site.)
This is not very helpful. Ever since Android 4.2, Android tablets and phones with good hardware are stable and perform well. And claiming that smart phone Androids fill the low end niche replacing dumb phones and feature phones is just not accurate. Samsung, LG, HTC and Nexus all have very good high end phones. Other manufacturers have quality mid-range phones that are capable of doing everything that most casual smartphone users want. With all due respect, if the Android space was throwaway trash, Apple would not be adopting Android form factors or incorporating Android features into IOS.
Yes, this is a forum for Apple fans, but Apple fans are tech fans and support Apple because Apple consistently makes the best tech. This means that people should be intellectually honest enough to acknowledge good hardware, good software - a good product - when it comes from people other than Apple. And the fact that trolls and Android fanboys come on here and spout their garbage is no excuse. If you can't admit that the HTC One or Galaxy Note 3 aren't quality products or if you claim that even a good midrange product like Sony Xperia or the Moto X is throwaway trash feature phone instead of a good device fully capable of smartphone tasks with decent performance, then you have no credibility, no basis for saying what makes Apple better. To put it another way, just because a BMW is better than a Lexus doesn't make a Lexus garbage. A BMW doesn't even made a (fully loaded) Honda garbage. And if you claim that it does, it just makes everything that you say about your BMW appear ridiculous - even when it is true - and using the rantings of the Lexus or Honda fans as excuses for saying things that simply are not true only makes it appear as if you secretly believe that your BMW isn't as great as you claim that it is.
This Amazon Phone won't fail because it is an Android phone. It won't even fail because it is an attempt to make an I-Phone caliber high end phone (and it really looks like their attempt to do so, to offer a quality product to customers, offends you for some reason). It will fail because it really isn't as good as the latest high end Android phones. Strip away the gimmicky cameras and 3D stuff and the OS and the specs are comparable (even inferior) to Samsung Galaxy S4, yet it costs an arm and a leg. But I guess to be able to say that, you will have to be able to admit that the Galaxy S4 was a good phone that sold 40 million units in 6 months.
Then show some nuanced analysis instead of evangelism and this incredible defensiveness about Amazon. You're not above the fanboy wars, you are a full participant.
Developer = objectivity. Uh-huh. You're wound way too tight to be objective. It's also an old meme on this site. Haven't you seen posts like "I have equal experience on Windows and Mac, so I have objectivity and you iSheep don't!" in Microsoft-related threads sometimes? You are pulling the same "platform experience" card out of the deck.
The most nuanced and objective developer I ever met was John Carmack, co-founder of id Software. He never took sides in the great nvidia vs. ATI flame wars of the early 2000s, instead he made clear and highly technical observations about each tech company. He did take sides in the OpenGL vs D3D conflict during that time, but it was always backed by clear, technical reasons, and a little of his own personal value judgment about what "do the right thing" meant. You sir, are no John Carmack. (And that's not an insult, because very few developers reach that level of mastery of their craft)
Dude, Amazon has a lot more THAN marketing muscle. THAN. Anyway, I think Apple's marketing is not about muscle, as you pointed out. It's about connecting with you. And I have to say, Amazon does not seem to be connecting with me at the moment. This whole idea of not carrying books of publishers they are trying to "negotiate with" makes me wonder if all the calls on the Amazon phone are going to go through. Can I call every number, or only the ones of companies Amazon is not in contract negotiations with.
What struck me is that most of the demos he showed could be approximated very well with only a gyroscope. He was always tilting the phone itself- which a gyroscope can accomplish, built into every iPhone since the iPhone 4. Especially the lockscreens, or the way he was browsing dresses. Easily accomplished with a gyroscope. Also There's a ton of jailbreak tweaks that give the 3D interface effect.
I guess the eye-tracking makes it a bit more accurate? Is it worth it, throwing all that tech in the phone for a feature that is dubious in usefulness or practicality? Uglifying the phone, adding bulk and weight, more points of failure, and straining the battery? Also, I played a dragon-riding game on the iPad that used the front camera for head-tracking and steering. Worked pretty damn well.
Ha ha! By tilting the phone itself, he was tracking his own head successfully. Very interesting!
Then show some nuanced analysis instead of evangelism and this incredible defensiveness about Amazon. You're not above the fanboy wars, you are a full participant.
Developer = objectivity. Uh-huh. You're wound way too right to be objective. It's also an old meme on this site. Haven't you seen posts like "I have equal experience on Windows and Mac, so I have objectivity and you iSheep don't!" in Microsoft-related threads sometimes? You are pulling the same "platform experience" card out of the deck.
The most nuanced and objective developer I ever met was John Carmack, co-founder of id Software. He never took sides in the great nvidia vs. ATI flame wars of the early 2000s, instead he made clear and highly technical observations about each tech company. He did take sides in the OpenGL vs D3D conflict during that time, but it was always backed by clear, technical reasons, and a little of his own personal value judgment about what "do the right thing" meant. You sir, are no John Carmack. (And that's not an insult, because very few developers reach that level of mastery of their craft)
Well said. The "I'm a developer" line is laughauble. No developer worth their salt working on a single platform would have the time, motivation, or reason to go into threads like these for hours and defend something- let alone someone working on "multiple platforms" as he states. I'd love to see a list of stuff he's developed, but I very much doubt anything exists.
Oh, and tt92618 make sure you don't read the below link, arstechnica's hands-on of the phone. That site is one of the most objective I know of, but I guess they're all "Apple fanboys" because of the below quotes- many of which were predicted in this very thread, statements you mocked and bashed.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/06/amazon-fire-phone-hands-on-double-vision/
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Sounds fantastic.
Indeed, Samsung should be afraid. It makes their "it stops playing video when I look away" feature seem like the even shallower gimmick it is.
The device seems okay but I am worried that these features will feel gimmicky.
The Firefly software seems pretty good, but not really tied to the hardware, it easily could be released for any other device (and may even eventually be release as a app on other platforms to drive sales to Amazon)
The "3D" seems really gimmicky to me. At best it's "nifty", i.e. in the maps, but not a "killer" feature. AND there are already apps that use this type of display on the Iphone (going way back to the at least the Iphone 4) . It's the "integrated" features seem really gimmicky, i.e. the scrolling seems just odd and probably more trouble that it's worth, the options "gestures" again, the navigation gestures, again, odd and not really any better than touch.
Just my opinion.
If Apple invented sliced bread, this would be Amazon's sliced bread with butter baked in. No, make that fancy butter. As far as smartphone functionality goes, the 3D face tracking--the way it's used here--is less useful than the Firefly and sign recognition. Machine vision is more practical.
Funny thing is: I never actually dismissed the Fire phone ([@]tt92618[/@] overreacted). I pretty much had the same reaction as you. 3D is a novelty, and when the newness wears off, it won't be the thing that keeps sales going. To me, it's clear this phone is really a strategy to grow Amazon's digital goods business (music, movies, books, TV shows). If Apple is about user experience, Google is about open and free, then Amazon is about funneling sales of their online business. The 3D feature is just a headliner--something people will remember then they think of this phone. Apple tries to do the same with each iPhone release, such as Facetime, Siri or the first 64-bit mobile CPU.