Apple reveals most employees are white men, says diversity needs to be improved

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  • Reply 41 of 757
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Nobodyy View Post





    But you know there is greater genetic variability within races than between - sooooo.

    Like in the NBA or NHL?

  • Reply 42 of 757

    Whites constitute the majority of the U.S. population, with a total of 223,553,265 or 72.4% of the population in the 2010 United States Census. There are 63.7% Whites when Hispanics who describe themselves as "white" are taken out of the calculation.

     

    So it would seem Apple is right in line with reflecting the population they are drawing form...  I don't see the problem there.

  • Reply 43 of 757
    If anything, perceived "imbalances" are an indictment of the public education system which should be burned to the ground and replaced with competing privately run organizations. Just as is true in life beyond school, let the best schools win!

    Can you imagine the demand for a school system run or designed by Apple?
  • Reply 44 of 757
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pigybank View Post

     

    Whites constitute the majority of the U.S. population, with a total of 223,553,265 or 72.4% of the population in the 2010 United States Census. There are 63.7% Whites when Hispanics who describe themselves as "white" are taken out of the calculation.

     

    So it would seem Apple is right in line with reflecting the population they are drawing form...  I don't see the problem there.


    The "problem" is apparent; that white dudes make them feel bad.

  • Reply 45 of 757
    You're only half-right maloderous. Business decisions need to be made on logic. But there's more to running a successful organization than just "business decisions". If only you had added a measure of "diversity" to your thought you may have considered that? Because sometimes Diversity on its own can open the path to an alternate source of superior talent or logic. Emotion, and social dynamics are a huge part of a successful business that relies on human (not robot) customers. And thank goodness Tim Cook has made it clear on numerous occasions that pure-business logic is not his only consideration when running Apple.

    I appreciate Apple's transparency. I will appreciate even more when they actually measure up to their own standards of diversity.
  • Reply 46 of 757
    pigybank wrote: »
    Whites constitute the majority of the U.S. population, with a total of 223,553,265 or 72.4% of the population in the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_Census" style="background-image:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);" target="_blank" title="2010 United States Census">2010 United States Census</a>
    . There are 63.7% Whites when Hispanics who describe themselves as "white" are taken out of the calculation.

    So it would seem Apple is right in line with reflecting the population they are drawing form...  I don't see the problem there.

    You're right. There is no problem, there is only kowtowing to collectivists and racists who believe race is more important than the individual.
  • Reply 47 of 757
    nobodyynobodyy Posts: 377member
    If anything, perceived "imbalances" are an indictment of the public education system which should be burned to the ground and replaced with competing privately run organizations. Just as is true in life beyond school, let the best schools win!

    By offering higher paying jobs to minorities who have relatively same skills as those who are white and are paid for their skills (to the greater degree), those people can invest in public education, move to better school districts, etc, to help to change the cycle that is creating such a divid between races.

    In all helping the "finding the best person just happens to be a white male" through investment in our children.
  • Reply 48 of 757
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    sog35 wrote: »
    not really.

    Do you think a company made up of 100% white males would be successful selling women's clothes?

    Having diversity leads to new ideas and viewpoints. 
    But Apple's workforce isn't 100% white male. Personally I would want to be hired based on my qualifications not because the company didn't have enough females and needed to meet some quota.
  • Reply 49 of 757
    wigbywigby Posts: 692member

    This isn't about diversity quotas. Apple is a multinational company and will be selling more devices to China than any other country soon.

     

    There are qualified people of every race, religion, cultural background, etc. Apple sees their goal as finding the most diverse group to represent their customer base. It doesn't mean Apple is turning away qualified white guys. It means that they are just looking harder to find the most diverse group of experts and employees.

     

    It's corporate Darwinism. Diversity always beats uniformity when it comes to people. 

  • Reply 50 of 757
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,585member
    COME OFF IT. NO. Either hire the best person for the job or screw you all. This isn’t how to run a business.

    This is what should tank the stock, not record sales numbers.

    Not just Apple now: Instead of spending money getting a magical “complete” subsection of people into every industry for no reason whatsoever, why not spend that money improving the experience/education of the people who already WANT TO BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Don’t force people to take occupations they don’t want.

    This is a topic in which you should remain silent. As someone who had two businesses over the years, in which I hired hundreds of people, I can say that things aren't as simple as you would like them to be.

    My first reaction is simple, as yours is, which is to only hire the most qualified people. I'm sure Apple isn't going to be hiring second rate people in order to fill some arbitrary quotas. But, on the other hand, there are many qualified people out there who don't even fill out the forms for large corporations because they are certain they won't be hired by them. Encouraging them to do so, is important.

    Even for my companies I often got the feeling from minority candidates that they weren't expecting me to hire them.

    But the USA numbers don't look bad. After all, if Apple's employee numbers come anywhere close to the percentages of the USA population, then it's about right, and nothing more can really be done.

    As far as the numbers for higher management goes, that's a more difficult topic. When hiring there, mere qualifications mean less. How do you measure the qualifications of a major candidate? That's very complex.
  • Reply 51 of 757
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    You're right. There is no problem, there is only kowtowing to collectivists and racists who believe race is more important than the individual.
    I'll bet if Apple released stats based on political allfiliafion you would see next to no diversity. At Tim Cook's Apple diversity is measured by skin color, gender and sexual orientation.
  • Reply 52 of 757
    nobodyynobodyy Posts: 377member
    rogifan wrote: »
    But Apple's workforce isn't 100% white male. Personally I would want to be hired based on my qualifications not because the company didn't have enough females and needed to meet some quota.

    However, because the company did not have enough gay black males in their pipeline (as in my case), I'd appreciate the extra look at my work to show them I do compare, if not exceed the other talent in the pool. If i don't compare, it will be obvious and I will not survive if given a "pass". But that second look means I get judged more accurately if I've been looked over in the start because of who I am - the country is slated against you and I, I don't think its carity or cheating to get a stool to prop ourselves on now and again.
  • Reply 53 of 757
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    not really.

     

    Do you think a company made up of 100% white males would be successful selling women's clothes?

     

    Having diversity leads to new ideas and viewpoints. 


    Then your example wouldn't be for Diversity's sake. It'd be a legit business decision. You'd assume that women know women's clothes.

  • Reply 54 of 757
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,585member
    It's becoming more and more clear to me now that the Beats deal was in fact a racial quota thing. Ugh. Disturbing and disgusting collectivist nonsense. Is this really what Apple is becoming? Hiring people without taking race or background into consideration is the right thing to do.

    Apple products ALREADY appeal to people everywhere because of their simplicity and well-thought out function. Dragging race and political matters into Apple's public image is a huge misstep. Silicon Valley is going through yet another self-made crisis created by middle-managers who live by appeasement.

    Just focus on the products!

    That's ludicrous! You have no idea of what you're saying here.
  • Reply 55 of 757
    sog35 wrote: »
    Good for you.

    I'm glad you had great experiences interviewing for jobs.  Seattle is a very progressive city, I'm not surprised.
    But sad to say many minorities in the deep south don't have the same experiences.

    I find the word "minority" extremely offensive, quite frankly. It diminishes the individual and perpetuates the insane notion that race has anything to do with intellect or ability. Judge people not by race, but by their individual ability and character.
  • Reply 56 of 757
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    sog35 wrote: »
    Do you think a company made up of 100% white males would be successful selling women's clothes?

    That's silly. A woman is more likely to understand women's fashion and women's needs for fashion better than a man so you're likely to have more women in this field. Your argument in favour of diversity for diversity's sake is suggesting that you hire a man who is less qualified than a woman simply to make diversify a position based on sex for its own sake.
  • Reply 57 of 757
    I wonder what percent of the male employees have been with Apple for a significant amount of time. The amount of females in the tech world has dramatically increased over the past 10 years (which is great) but I wonder how many older male employees may skew the data if at all. It would be great to track the timeline.
  • Reply 58 of 757
    fred1fred1 Posts: 1,122member
    I certainly agree with those who say that the best practice is to hire the best people for the job, no matter what "group" they fall into.

    What's the alternative? Quotas? How can that possibly improve things? And how is that not discrimination?
  • Reply 59 of 757
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gustav View Post



    Wow, tallest skil and maloderous completely miss the point. Labelling it as "Diversity for Diversity's sake" is lazy and harmful. You are turning a blind eye the fact that are circumstances in society preventing smart and qualified people from being seen or applying to Apple. This is what Cook is talking about. Believing it means Apple will hire someone not qualified for the job just to increase the diversity numbers is a lazy and ignorant take on it.

     

    Actually, "diversity for diversity's sake is very damaging. Just not to the people who get a nearly "free ride."

     

    As a while male, born in the United States, I have been shocked as I entered the college and workforce years to discover that the entire system was against me. Going to university cost a lot. I had to work to support myself and school and am still paying off loans.  Meanwhile, I noticed the black, hispanic, and especially middle eastern folks were getting mostly free rides with grants.  And they were allowed to use the money even for personal support. Meanwhile my loans must be paid in full, even the extra unused portion kept by the school.

     

    My wife of middle eastern descent was constantly offered many benefits by this country to get ahead, with little to no investment.

     

    Me? Perhaps because I'm white and it's expected that I grew up with a silver spoon instead of dirt poor living in the back of a trailer and eating reject food that benevolent restaurant owners so generously provided to my single mom, brother, and I.

     

    So take that idea that diversity is the main thing that needs to be there. It doesn't. What needs to be there are hard working people who care about what they do, regardless of ethnicity or gender. 

     

    No one believes that Apple is a prejudiced company. And no one believes it's about to be one.

     

    Moves like this to satisfy a public facing chart don't help anyone. 

  • Reply 60 of 757
    bobschlobbobschlob Posts: 1,074member

    Post the applicant rejection numbers, broken down by race / sex. Then MAYBE we'll have something to discuss. Till then, this is all pointless BS.

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