Apple reveals most employees are white men, says diversity needs to be improved

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  • Reply 121 of 757
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RichL View Post

     

    In this thread: white men decide that Apple hiring mostly white men is fine, logical.


     

    How many more strawmen you got?

  • Reply 122 of 757
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    solipsismx wrote: »
    No! We call people "black" that don't actually have a skin colour that looks black and we call people "white" that don't actually have a white skin colour. We also call people "black" who have a particular look them and then ignore that they are they might have any of the majority's label in their heritage.

    Case in point, Barack Obama is said to be the first "black" president of the United States but never do I hear that he's the 44th "white" president of the United States. Based on the available data only the latter statement can be stated with any relative certainly as we can't know if any previous US president has had any genetic genealogy of someone that would be considered "black" simply because they didn't look "black".

    That's still genetics though, since you are taking about his white/black ancestors.
  • Reply 122 of 757
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

     

    That is utter nonsense.


     

    You don't agree that different groups have different ethics, morals and priorities? 

     

    I do, so I guess that we can just disagree.

  • Reply 124 of 757
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ElectroTech View Post



    The time has come to put away our prejudice and look beyond race and ethnicity to see the human potential in all people. If Apple has been ignoring applications for positions because of race, ethnicity, gender etc., they should be charged with the crime and be punished. Conversely, if they hire based on those same qualities, does it not stand to reason that they also should be punished for discrimination? The world is one country and mankind its citizens. Get past this idiotic labelling and creation of hyphenated Americans. We are all just people.

     

    You bring up an interesting point. If Apple starts applying discriminatory hiring practices to favor of classes of people, they will be looking at more massive class-action lawsuits and government meddling. The road to hell is paved with political correctness.

  • Reply 125 of 757
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    hire the best, regardless of ethnic background or gender.

    That's really utopian BS. One just has to look at sports to see that hiring the seemingly 'best' doesn't always turn out that way. Sometimes the person that wasn't even considered but was given a chance turns out to be the 'best' person for the job.
  • Reply 126 of 757
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

    No! We call people "black" that don't actually have a skin colour that looks black and we call people "white" that don't actually have a white skin colour. We also call people "black" who have a particular look them and then ignore that they are they might have any of the majority's label in their heritage.

     

    So your problem is with the words used to describe the differences, not in defining differences themselves.

     

    Originally Posted by Nobodyy View Post

    You're the worst kind of white person. 

     

    Great going¡

     




    Its called white privilege and...



     

    ...it doesn’t exist. Shut up with this madness.

     


    Let me describe to you why these grants existwhy some people get them, and why you do not deserve them or any breaks. 


     

    You’re making my sides hurt, how hard I’m laughing right now.

     
    ...education of why certain statutes are in place.

     

    Here’s some education for you.

     

    Once upon a time, people were treated differently because of how they looked, not how they behaved. So today, instead of telling people to treat each other equally and measure others by the quality of their work and not the color of their skin (et. al.), you want to subvert that and forcibly treat people COMPLETELY differently. Great going¡

  • Reply 127 of 757
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    apple ][ wrote: »
    You don't agree that different groups have different ethics, morals and priorities? 

    I do, so I guess that we can just disagree.

    I'd bet the farm that this hangs above your mantle.:lol:

    400
  • Reply 128 of 757
    nobodyynobodyy Posts: 377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

    Once upon a time, people were treated differently because of how they looked, not how they behaved. So today, instead of telling people to treat each other equally and measure others by the quality of their work and not the color of their skin (et. al.), you want to subvert that and forcibly treat people COMPLETELY differently. Great going¡


     

    I'm treated on how people think I'll act based on my color. Sorry, it sucks to be judged like that, but it happens and because of that, I have less opportunity than a white person would.

  • Reply 129 of 757
    brlawyerbrlawyer Posts: 828member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

     

     

    COME OFF IT. NO. Either hire the best person for the job or screw you all. This isn’t how to run a business.

     

    This is what should tank the stock, not record sales numbers.

     

    Not just Apple now: Instead of spending money getting a magical “complete” subsection of people into every industry for no reason whatsoever, why not spend that money improving the experience/education of the people who already WANT TO BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Don’t force people to take occupations they don’t want.


     

    Absolutely. But the usual racist US bullshit continues - nowhere else in the world are "hispanics" considered a "race" - not to mention that, even among "caucasians", the genetic differences are just astounding.

     

    Sad to see Cook, the world's best COO and nothing else, advocating for more "diversity" as if the way you look or your sexual preference were a priority over merit. Ridiculous.

  • Reply 130 of 757
    mike1mike1 Posts: 3,333member

    I guess white men should not look for work in the tech industry anymore. Starting out with 2-1/2 strikes against you. Getting by HR and to the hiring manager will be impossible. Best make sure you do NOT participate in those "voluntary" surveys that are part of the process these days.

  • Reply 131 of 757
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    nobodyy wrote: »

    OH COME ON.

    Are you seriously going to just be one of those people? One of those people, who instead of trying to understand the situation by even doing a simple Google search as to why those grants exist, goes on a public forum to attack those benefiting from them with lore how it sucks to be assumed to grow up with a silver spoon and it's unfair that you have to pay more money in your lifetime for your education. 

    You're the worst kind of white person. 

    I don't hate you - but I hate the effort you put into failing to even TRY to attempt to understand something, then go on to perpetuate the hatred without even so much as looking into the other side. It's called white privilege and even if you are disadvantaged compared to every other white person on the planet while you were growing up, you are at an advantage to every minority in existence for your entire life.

    Let me describe to you why these grants exist, why some people get them, and why you do not deserve them or any breaks. 

    I'll start with this idea "that the system is against you". You think the education system is against you because it gives other people graces but not you? First and foremost, these graces aren't meant to, and most certainly do not affect you. Because Demetre A, the first of his family to ever go to college, gets a break while you have to pay more, it is not hurting you. I can promise weren't going to get the money if Demetre didn't get it, so there's no reason to be upset at him. 

    Let's go on to why these students get these grants and why it's ridiculous to say the system is against you:

    1. You think it's hard supporting yourself being in college as a white male student? Try being black. And while it's a shame it was "hard for you", it's a sad thought to apply "it has to be bad for everyone else" when you don't know even know how bad someone else has it bad by stigma already. 

    2. Over your lifetime, you will earn more money with the same skills and a degree than a minority. Not only that, there's direct correlation with your life expectancy. Many great things are crammed in that PDF, like the fact that poorer black men have a shorter lifespans than poorer white men. Only more questions about the extent of the benefit of white privilege that I'm not addressing are raised here.

    3. There is a high disparity in the amount of minority students who drop out from schools because of funds, lack of motivation, and other social factors. It's no doubt that there's disparity in the public education system in the United States. What makes you think this doesn't spill over in high academia? Sure, these factors may affect white students as well, but those factors are weighted on top of many negative influences already attributed to being a minority student from a minority family.

    4. The more minorities graduating high school with less debt allows them to invest that money back into their children, allowing them to be more educated with the expense of the family - much like what happened with the G.I. Bill after WWII which caused great disparity in white and black populations as whites were able to do just that: invest money they should have paid back into family and create self-sustained families so people like you are free to work to attend college, instead of working to support the family that raised you. Unfortunately, this action, while having a great positive affect on the population (specifically the white population), negatively impacted others by putting them at a disadvantage in education and social realms. 

    And of course, I should end this by saying I'm not yelling or irrationally freaking out - just heated because this is an issue that still exists in today's society and it can really only be solved by education of why certain statutes are in place. I understand people take advantage of those graces, I being one of them (a mixed student who is given the power of white privileged because of my background), but that doesn't mean we can or should take them away.

    Does minority include Asian? I doubt if Asians are in fact likely to earn less than whites over a lifetime.

    The figures are skewed because lots of old wealth and privilege are white in the US - WASPS Etc - and they get byes into university. Ethnic and working class whites not so much.

    In any case whites aren't privileged in Apple. It needs to start hiring more Hispanics and blacks, same number of whites, massively reduced number of Asians.
  • Reply 132 of 757
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    Some people thought that the Civil rights act was political correctness


     

    Name them.

  • Reply 133 of 757
    brlawyerbrlawyer Posts: 828member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     



    So what the 12%?

     

    55% white

    15% asian

    11% latino

    7% black

    = 88% total


     

    Once upon a time the US employed a more accurate definition called "mulatto" - just like Obama. But thanks to the racist one-drop rule, every single iota of "African" blood makes you a "black"...of course.

  • Reply 134 of 757
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Originally Posted by Nobodyy View Post

    I'm treated on how people think I'll act based on my color. Sorry, it sucks to be judged like that, but it happens and because of that, I have less opportunity than a white person would.

     

    So much wrong here... 

  • Reply 135 of 757
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    sog35 wrote: »

     Exactly.

    How many Black football coaches do we have in the NFL?  Less than 10%.  Yet over 60% of the players are black.

    How many Black football coaches do we have in College Football? Less than 15%. 

    Don't tell me that there aren't tons of well qualified Black coaches that get shafted every year.

    Where are all the white players?
  • Reply 136 of 757
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,110member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    Mr Cook never said he had a quota.  You are putting words into his mouth.

     

    And I'm happy for you that you were hired without someone discriminating against you.

    But I'm sorry your personal experience does not equal the experience of millions of Black/Asian/Latino people in the USA.




    "Diversity needs to be improved".  That's code-speak for "Quota" for the attention-whores like Jesse Jackson.  Tim Cook did not say it, but the politicos raising a stink about it surely want something like that.



    My experience as a Mexican-American in this area that is surrounded my white guys is completely relevant to the topic.  Our family grew up poor, and struggled.  We never asked for a handout and played the cards we were given.  For me, I refused to let any perceived racial-barrier get in the way.  My parents shelled out a hell of a lot of money - that they badly needed to support the family - to buy my first computer as a kid because they saw something in me that needed nurturing.  I was the only Latino in computer lab in a high school that was very much racially diverse.  My mom still lives in the family home in a predominantly Mexican neighborhood south of San Francisco.  It's still a rough area.



    What did I see among the minorities in my school?  Blacks and hispanics were more interested in thumping their chests as to who was in the better gang.  They did drugs and were responsible for most of the crime on campus.  They didn't care about improving their lives.  It was their falsely perceived belief that that life held promise.  I saw it for the bullshit it was.  They tried steering me into that lifestyle, but thanks to my parents for keeping me straight, I knew better.  I was picked-on by white guys because of my race.  Again, thanks to strong parental support, I persevered.



    Blacks/Latino make a hell of a lot of excuses as to why they couldn't climb the social ladder.  Companies like Apple shouldn't have to explain at all why they aren't as diverse as assholes like Jesse Jackson would like Apple to be.  Sure, it would be nice but the problem is a social problem, not a company problem.  It's also a problem of the government trying to babysit and spoon feed people that they have zero motivation to get ahead when they are being handed free stuff.



    So my "personal experience" means I didn't let barriers get in the way, and make excuses as to why I couldn't get ahead.  I see how Mexicans in my community live and how many make the choice to let the government take care of them instead of doing what they can to better their life.  I see that every single day.  You have absolutely zero clue, and even less to assume I wouldn't know what "millions" of others go through.



    You reek of arrogance.

  • Reply 137 of 757
    brlawyerbrlawyer Posts: 828member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     



     Exactly.

     

    How many Black football coaches do we have in the NFL?  Less than 10%.  Yet over 60% of the players are black.

     

    How many Black football coaches do we have in College Football? Less than 15%. 

     

    Don't tell me that there aren't tons of well qualified Black coaches that get shafted every year.


     

    Is Obama a "black" for you?

  • Reply 138 of 757
    nobodyynobodyy Posts: 377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post





    Does minority include Asian? I doubt if Asians are in fact likely to earn less than whites over a lifetime.



    The figures are skewed because lots of old wealth and privilege are white in the US - WASPS Etc - and they get byes into university. Ethnic and working class whites not so much.



    In any case whites aren't privileged in Apple. It needs to start hiring more Hispanics and blacks, same number of whites, massively reduced number of Asians.

     

    Asians earn less than whites over a lifetime in the United States. It's a mere stereotype that assumes the other - though it admittedly looks like they earn more than an average white woman.

     

    And don't forget, those white families are dumping their income back into their families and businesses, isolating the from the past to that sector of as it gains interest which helps to offset inflation (plus, they're earning the most money). For more middle class families who are white, they are often graced with the fact that they do not have to work to support their family, and therefore can afford to contribute towards their own education, as well.

     

    And I understand within Apple, I was merely pointing out the issues within the education system in specifics. 

  • Reply 139 of 757
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member

    Jobs was a great forward thinker and worked with all kinds of people. But he never spent more than five minutes on nonsense like this.

     

    Where's the new Mini?

  • Reply 140 of 757
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    asdasd wrote: »
    That's still genetics though, since you are taking about his white/black ancestors.

    No, it's not.
    So your problem is with the words used to describe the differences, not in defining differences themselves.

    My problem is the lack of scientific objectiveity to classify groups of people based on superficial aspects and then pigeonholing them into "minority" groups on the basis that any mixing then knocks one down from this racially charged ideal the "white man."
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