Apple reveals most employees are white men, says diversity needs to be improved

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  • Reply 101 of 757
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    sog35 wrote: »
    So you really think Asians are shown preferential treatment?

    Hilarious. If whites are over represented - which they aren't in this report (men are, whites aren't) it's racism. If Asians are, it isn't.

    But whites are actually below their adult population. Asians are over- represented by about 600%.
  • Reply 102 of 757
    The time has come to put away our prejudice and look beyond race and ethnicity to see the human potential in all people. If Apple has been ignoring applications for positions because of race, ethnicity, gender etc., they should be charged with the crime and be punished. Conversely, if they hire based on those same qualities, does it not stand to reason that they also should be punished for discrimination? The world is one country and mankind its citizens. Get past this idiotic labelling and creation of hyphenated Americans. We are all just people.
  • Reply 103 of 757
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    yojimbo007 wrote: »
    "revealing that its U.S.-based employees are overwhelmingly male and white"????????
    US population is 69% white.
    how is 55% white employees overwhelmingly white?
    If anything apple should hire more white people to be in line with the population mix..
    As it is apple is discriminating against whites... Lol

    Just goes to show you that AI did not bother to do a simple google search before they Chose to pubilsh this overwhelmingly erroneous headline......

    Wonder why ? ........

    It's 65% whites in Apple. However over the age of 21 whites are probably 75% of the population.
  • Reply 104 of 757
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

    ...“race" is pseudo-science term that really needs to go away.

     

    Ah, so black people aren’t black because of their genetics. I see.

     

    Originally Posted by melgross View Post

    This is a topic in which you should remain silent.

     

    What, me personally? No. I’m not going to stop fighting this lunacy.

     

    But, on the other hand, there are many qualified people out there who don't even fill out the forms for large corporations because they are certain they won't be hired by them. Encouraging them to do so, is important.


     

    I don’t see how this would refute what I’ve said. It’s only an addendum thereto.

     

    Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

    Wow, you gave in to your last resort I-have-no-argument defence very quickly that time.

     

    Either read posts before replying or shut your hole in the first place. It’s a pretty simple concept that you consistently refuse to grasp. Either this is because you’re not intelligent enough to grasp it, or you’re simply trolling. The latter seems more likely, and you know how we treat trolls here.

  • Reply 105 of 757
    yojimbo007yojimbo007 Posts: 1,165member
    asdasd wrote: »
    It's 65% whites in Apple. However over the age of 21 whites are probably 75% of the population.
    Nope wrong..
    55% white at apple..
    Whites are underrepresented!
    Lol
    Just goes to show you how bogus and misleading these headlines are !
  • Reply 106 of 757
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post





    It's 65% whites in Apple. However over the age of 21 whites are probably 75% of the population.

     

    Uhm, article says 55% white at Apple.  US Census data says 63.7% white.

     

    https://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0010.pdf

    Total population as of 2009: 307,007,000

    All population

    Under 20: 83,422,000

    20+: 223,585,000

     

    Non-Hispanic White - 199,851,000

    Under 20: 46,514,000

    20+: 153,337,000

     

    So no, age 20+ white population is actually just about 50% of the total US population.   Nowhere near 75%.  Use real numbers instead of just guessing next time.

  • Reply 107 of 757
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    apple ][ wrote: »
    You go and start a computer company made up 100% of unqualified minorities and see how well it turns out for you.

    Your company would make Android look good in comparison.

    So what made Jobs and Woz 'qualified'? That they were white?
  • Reply 108 of 757
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    So what made Jobs and Woz 'qualified'? That they were white?

    Woz was a technical genius and had experience as a programmer.  Sounds pretty qualified to me.

  • Reply 109 of 757
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    hagen kirk wrote: »
    Woz was a technical genius and had experience as a programmer.  Sounds pretty qualified to me.

    And only a white guy can be that?
  • Reply 110 of 757
    kkerstkkerst Posts: 330member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    So what made Jobs and Woz 'qualified'? That they were white?

    Yikes

  • Reply 111 of 757
    malaxmalax Posts: 1,598member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    But the numbers include ALL APPLE employees -

     

    Accountants

    Marketing

    Retail Staff

    HR

    Legal

     

    So seriously telling me there are 800% more qualified White men than Black men for ALL THOSE JOBS?????


     

    Of course there are, because there are 800% more White people in America than Blacks (roughly).

  • Reply 112 of 757

    Ok, this is a very hot-button item. It is also that throughout history has show occurs. However, we have to take a very enlightened approach to this problem.

     

    @sog35 has a valid point, that discrimination has occurred in the past and is still a problem today. It is better today, but it is not gone. @Tallest Skil and several others also have a very valid point: hire the best, regardless of ethnic background or gender.

     

    The wrong approach would be just to increase the numbers, regardless of ability. All this does is lessen Apple and is discriminatory in of itself. Yes, I am a white male, and I have actually lost programming jobs because of my gender and race. Not because the other applicant was better than I, which I could easily have accepted. Nope, she was a female, and they needed numbers, so I lost out (and put my family through some hard times). This is a perfect case of "Diversity for Diversity's sake" that @Tallest Skil was mentioning.

     

    Now, the real problem is why isn't there the number of applicants that @sog35 has mentioned. It comes down to education and opportunity for education. Technology jobs are very slanted towards white males. That isn't because they are better suited for it (which is utter nonsense), it is because minorities are either no wanting to to do these things (as in the case with many females aged 13 - 18, and that is based off from my own experiences - definitely not scientific), or a serious lack of opportunity (as is the case with most minority led schools, usually urban and poor) due to no resources available. If we want these numbers to become more even due to talent and capability then we need to improve both of those numbers right there. That begins at the Middle and High School.

     

    You won't find a bigger champion for diversity than myself (in my own opinion ????). I firmly believe the human race as a whole is pretty awesome; and gender, skin color, cultural differences, and religious differences can make us all a lot better as a whole. However, to try to artificially conflate the numbers for the sake of "Diversity"is just as wrong and discriminatory as what has been happening. Let's not trade one evil for another: lets actually solve the problem.

  • Reply 113 of 757
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

     
    Who we are, where we come from, and what we've experienced influence the way we perceive issues and solve problems. We believe in celebrating that diversity and investing in it....


    Tim

     

    I'll be honest - I was going to come post my usual thoughts about the fundamental flaw with affirmative action and how pure meritocracy should prevail.  I still (strongly) think that's the case.

     

    But in reading what Cook said in the line I quote above I realized that he sees business value in the diversity itself, rather than just the rather non-sequitur PR value that affirmative action might provide.

     

    Think what a better world it would be if a hiring manager or admissions officer actually looked at someone and instead of saying "we'll take you because we've got this political skin color quota and you fit the bill - no we didn't read your resume/application letter" said "we want you here because we think your perspective and life experience, which we feel are diverse compared to many of our current employees/students, will enrich our ability to accomplish our mission; that plus the merit shown in your resume/application letter make you stand out".

     

    I suppose that I shouldn't be surprised at the head of a company like Apple being able to see beyond politics a bit.

  • Reply 114 of 757
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    kkerst wrote: »
    Yikes

    Why didn't you say 'yikes' to the OP that implied non-whites could never be qualified to start a computer company?
  • Reply 115 of 757
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jungmark View Post





    How is Tim Insulting his workforce? He's unhappy with the pct, not the people.

     

    He's unhappy with the percentage. What do those numbers represent? People. Isn't he in effect saying, "we have too many white people*", in addition to "we don't have enough non-white employees"?

     

    (* By the way, what the hell does "white people" mean, anyway?)

  • Reply 116 of 757
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    hagen kirk wrote: »
    Uhm, article says 55% white at Apple.  US Census data says 63.7% white.

    https://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0010.pdf
    Total population as of 2009: 307,007,000
    All population

    Under 20: 83,422,000

    20+: 223,585,000

    Non-Hispanic White - 199,851,000

    Under 20: 46,514,000

    20+: 153,337,000

    So no, age 20+ white population is actually just about 50% of the total US population.   Nowhere near 75%.  Use real numbers instead of just guessing next time.

    I said it was about 75% of the adult population. Use proper maths next time. Your 20+ white % is 69%. But Apple doesn't just hire grads.
  • Reply 117 of 757
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Ah, so black people aren’t black because of their genetics. I see

    No! We call people "black" that don't actually have a skin colour that looks black and we call people "white" that don't actually have a white skin colour. We also call people "black" who have a particular look them and then ignore that they are they might have any of the majority's label in their heritage.

    Case in point, Barack Obama is said to be the first "black" president of the United States but never do I hear that he's the 44th "white" president of the United States. Based on the available data only the latter statement can be stated with any relative certainly as we can't know if any previous US president has had any genetic genealogy of someone that would be considered "black" simply because they didn't look "black".
  • Reply 118 of 757
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

     

     

    Certain groups of people are smarter and better educated than others, that's just the way that it is. It should surprise no one that better educated and smarter people are more desirable employees.


     

    That is utter nonsense.

  • Reply 119 of 757
    nobodyynobodyy Posts: 377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post

     

     

    Actually, "diversity for diversity's sake is very damaging. Just not to the people who get a nearly "free ride."

     

    As a while male, born in the United States, I have been shocked as I entered the college and workforce years to discover that the entire system was against me. Going to university cost a lot. I had to work to support myself and school and am still paying off loans.  Meanwhile, I noticed the black, hispanic, and especially middle eastern folks were getting mostly free rides with grants.  And they were allowed to use the money even for personal support. Meanwhile my loans must be paid in full, even the extra unused portion kept by the school.

     

    My wife of middle eastern descent was constantly offered many benefits by this country to get ahead, with little to no investment.

     

    Me? Perhaps because I'm white and it's expected that I grew up with a silver spoon instead of dirt poor living in the back of a trailer and eating reject food that benevolent restaurant owners so generously provided to my single mom, brother, and I.

     

    So take that idea that diversity is the main thing that needs to be there. It doesn't. What needs to be there are hard working people who care about what they do, regardless of ethnicity or gender. 

     

    No one believes that Apple is a prejudiced company. And no one believes it's about to be one.

     

    Moves like this to satisfy a public facing chart don't help anyone. 


     

     

    OH COME ON.

     

    Are you seriously going to just be one of those people? One of those people, who instead of trying to understand the situation by even doing a simple Google search as to why those grants exist, goes on a public forum to attack those benefiting from them with lore how it sucks to be assumed to grow up with a silver spoon and it's unfair that you have to pay more money in your lifetime for your education. 

     

    You're the worst kind of white person. 

     

    I don't hate you - but I hate the effort you put into failing to even TRY to attempt to understand something, then go on to perpetuate the hatred without even so much as looking into the other side. It's called white privilege and even if you are disadvantaged compared to every other white person on the planet while you were growing up, you are at an advantage to every minority in existence for your entire life.

     

    Let me describe to you why these grants exist, why some people get them, and why you do not deserve them or any breaks. 

     

    I'll start with this idea "that the system is against you". You think the education system is against you because it gives other people graces but not you? First and foremost, these graces aren't meant to, and most certainly do not affect you. Because Demetre A, the first of his family to ever go to college, gets a break while you have to pay more, it is not hurting you. I can promise weren't going to get the money if Demetre didn't get it, so there's no reason to be upset at him. 

     

    Let's go on to why these students get these grants and why it's ridiculous to say the system is against you:

     

    1. You think it's hard supporting yourself being in college as a white male student? Try being black. And while it's a shame it was "hard for you", it's a sad thought to apply "it has to be bad for everyone else" when you don't know even know how bad someone else has it bad by stigma already. 

     

    2. Over your lifetime, you will earn more money with the same skills and a degree than a minority. Not only that, there's direct correlation with your life expectancy. Many great things are crammed in that PDF, like the fact that poorer black men have a shorter lifespans than poorer white men. Only more questions about the extent of the benefit of white privilege that I'm not addressing are raised here.

     

    3. There is a high disparity in the amount of minority students who drop out from schools because of funds, lack of motivation, and other social factors. It's no doubt that there's disparity in the public education system in the United States. What makes you think this doesn't spill over in high academia? Sure, these factors may affect white students as well, but those factors are weighted on top of many negative influences already attributed to being a minority student from a minority family.

     

    4. The more minorities graduating high school with less debt allows them to invest that money back into their children, allowing them to be more educated with the expense of the family - much like what happened with the G.I. Bill after WWII which caused great disparity in white and black populations as whites were able to do just that: invest money they should have paid back into family and create self-sustained families so people like you are free to work to attend college, instead of working to support the family that raised you. Unfortunately, this action, while having a great positive affect on the population (specifically the white population), negatively impacted others by putting them at a disadvantage in education and social realms. 

     

    And of course, I should end this by saying I'm not yelling or irrationally freaking out - just heated because this is an issue that still exists in today's society and it can really only be solved by education of why certain statutes are in place. I understand people take advantage of those graces, I being one of them (a mixed student who is given the power of white privileged because of my background), but that doesn't mean we can or should take them away.

  • Reply 120 of 757
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    Why didn't you say 'yikes' to the OP that implied non-whites could never be qualified to start a computer company?

     

    Not true. I said that unqualified minorities that made up 100% of a company would not be successful. It would be a crap computer company.

     

    Jobs and Wozniak were both smart people. Woz was obviously the technical genius and Jobs had other unique skills.

     

    They didn't look for any free handouts based on their skin color or their race. They just went out and started their company.

     

    They were doers, not whiners.

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