I don't think so. The fact is Apple keeps a lot of iPhones for its own stores for opening weekend. If that's the case, they aren't considered sold until Apple sells them to the end customer.
So not stuffing inventory at all.
True that. I never used the term "channel stuffing".
But it is undeniable that some large number of iPhone 5Cs were placed into resellers worldwide and were not moved for quite some time to customers. None of the other iPhone launches, including this one, saw that outcome. These unsold 5C units WERE included in the nine million, so qualitatively, at least, Munster was right. Of course it is impossible to quantify the number that should be subtracted, but Apple's acknowledgement at their January conference call regarding initial expectations of product mix indicates that the number was not insignificant. Just because we are Apple fans does not mean we need to be blind to these observable facts.
Aside from the people who are there to buy phones and re-sell them, I've never understood this desire to have to get the phone on the first day of release and I've certainly never understood the people who wait on a line for days when the phone could have been ordered online. I actually don't get it - if one has a job, how can they wait on line and if they don't have a job, one shouldn't be able to afford the phone (especially if they're buying it off contract and paying full price up front) unless they're independently wealthy, in which case you'd think one would have better things to do with their time.
Personally, about the longest I'd be willing to wait on any line is 15 minutes, which is why in the years when I've bought a new phone, it's been in Nove
Yep. I had to laugh at the picture of they guy holding his 6 or 6+ mugging for the camera. In January or February or whenever I get around to switching carriers and upgrading my 5, I guess I'll be the same as him except I'll hit the store after work some day and walk out with exactly what I want 10 minutes later. I've never preordered or stood in line. I sound boastful, so I guess I am. I'd rather say "yeah, I'll get it someday, but have more important things going on" than "ME FIRST!!".
Let's not forget the part where I mentioned "demand". 4 million preorders in 24 hours is a fairly good indication of demand.
... but, since, in this person's mind, demand does not affect the price of a stock, let's go further...
I was actually waiting for Mr. Internet Stock Guru to explain to us what is intrinsically different about Apple to have the stock valued at over $101 today as opposed to $56 just over a year ago. What has changed so much at Apple to almost double the stock value in just over a year?
Someone with such vast knowledge of the market must have a real valid reason that everyone can understand... and believe.
There were plenty of iPhone 5C units available everywhere you looked for weeks after launch day last year. These had been supplied to the channel in advance. That is channel fill, and it is undeniable. It is, of course, unfair that the media characterized the 5C as a flop simply because we are unaccustomed to an iPhone model that does not sell out of supply rapidly after launch. But there is no denying the facts: Apple overestimated 5C demand at the beginning and placed a lot in the third-party reseller channel, which counted towards those 9 million. Of course, Cook being Cook, it did not take Apple long to meet their inventory goals and supply/demand balance by redirecting build priorities.
Now, I am not going to argue with you about Gene Munster's motivations for what he says, but the facts are the facts: there was more inventory left in the channel than Apple had estimated there would be. Are you disagreeing with that?
Pardon me I am curious as to how you can verify that there is a glut of 5cs without quotes from the fortune tellers of Wall Street.
Apple report sales of products to end users not to the channel.
Munster was guessing and he guessed wrong and whatever nonsense he later sprouted was to cover his sorry a**.
Btw there is no way Munster can predict accurately how many iPhones Apple will be selling look no further his prediction for the Apple TV.
So here's a video with the very first iPhone 6 buyer in Perth. Probably not his best day. :rolleyes:
WOW...that came apart alarmingly easily. That apart...the guy was so nervous, struggling to cope with the media attention...and almost tricked into the faux pas as played out. In fact it was almost too good to be true...and the Aussie media loves a good spoof.
If it wasn't a setup, I hope he got a free phone.
Pardon me I am curious as to how you can verify that there is a glut of 5cs without quotes from the fortune tellers of Wall Street.
Apple report sales of products to end users not to the channel.
Apple doesn't have that quick of access to sales tallies of each individual model at their 3rd party retailers, especially overseas ones, so your last assertion is false. Assuming a sell-out across all venues, the two would be identical, and that's what typically happens for new Apple iPhone models. But not even close for 5C last year. I actively went to numerous websites (ATT, Verizon, Sprint, Best Buy, etc) and all had ample stock of all colors of iPhone 5C last year for immediate delivery. Meanwhile, they didn't catch up with 5S demand until well into November. So Apple underestimated 5S demand and overestimated 5C demand. Apple even admitted that in January. No big deal, and they shifted their build plans accordingly. And Wall Street wrung their hands and fretted. History now.
All this means is that 9 million figure from last year is apples and oranges with all other figures and creates a tough compare for this year. Apples to apples, we should be compared to a number somewhat south of 9 million. Expect Wall Street to get it wrong again.
"tens of hundreds" is a silly way to put it. Was the retailer trying to minimize the apparent interest? I agree, it gives the impression of a smaller number than saying "thousands", which is mathematically equivalent.
Really? I'd bet that the person who said this probably speaks one or two languages in addition to English. Subtle syntactic details like numerical grouping conventions don't always translate the same way across languages. I completely understand what the speaker meant, especially when I open up my acceptance filter to recognize and reward people who have gone the extra mile to learn my native language.
Today is a great day with reason to celebrate another Apple success story.
Maybe we start a spelling and grammar forum next week?
"tens of hundreds" is a silly way to put it. Was the retailer trying to minimize the apparent interest? I agree, it gives the impression of a smaller number than saying "thousands", which is mathematically equivalent.
Really? I'd bet that the person who said this probably speaks one or two languages in addition to English. Subtle syntactic details like numerical grouping conventions don't always translate the same way across languages. I completely understand what the speaker meant, especially when I open up my acceptance filter to recognize and reward people who have gone the extra mile to learn my native language.
Today is a great day with reason to celebrate another Apple success story.
Maybe we start a spelling and grammar forum next week?
Yeah, anybody who has trouble with "tens of hundreds" would probably have some kind of aneurysm if they had to deal with lakhs and crores of rupees.
WOW...that came apart alarmingly easily. That apart...the guy was so nervous, struggling to cope with the media attention...and almost tricked into the faux pas as played out. In fact it was almost too good to be true...and the Aussie media loves a good spoof.
If it wasn't a setup, I hope he got a free phone.
The back didn't come off the phone... that was packaging.
Everytime Apple releases a product and they generate record sales, we visit the same old doubts - Apple is stuffing the channels, Apple is creating demands by not manufacturing enough, etc. etc. And everytime Apple has to explain that the numbers are factual and not fiction!
Apple stores in Japan had trouble with Chinese mass-buyers trying to cut in line and also 100 caused damage at the Osaka shop.
Where I live all was peaceful; several shops with display models amazingly had no customers, so I could just walk in and not have to wait to play with the devices.
Saw the phones. Nice hardware. Too bad they run what IMO is a horrible looking OS, so I'm not interested. Millions are buying it, though. Good for them. I'll stick with my iPhone 5 running iOS6.
Good for a person who use smart phone as feature phone
Yep. I had to laugh at the picture of they guy holding his 6 or 6+ mugging for the camera. In January or February or whenever I get around to switching carriers and upgrading my 5, I guess I'll be the same as him except I'll hit the store after work some day and walk out with exactly what I want 10 minutes later. I've never preordered or stood in line. I sound boastful, so I guess I am. I'd rather say "yeah, I'll get it someday, but have more important things going on" than "ME FIRST!!".
It's no different than people waiting in line to see the new movie that's coming out instead of just going to see it on Sunday afternoon or people waiting in line for Black Friday deals. I don't understand why people make such a big deal out of other people standing in line for something those other people want.
Comments
True that. I never used the term "channel stuffing".
But it is undeniable that some large number of iPhone 5Cs were placed into resellers worldwide and were not moved for quite some time to customers. None of the other iPhone launches, including this one, saw that outcome. These unsold 5C units WERE included in the nine million, so qualitatively, at least, Munster was right. Of course it is impossible to quantify the number that should be subtracted, but Apple's acknowledgement at their January conference call regarding initial expectations of product mix indicates that the number was not insignificant. Just because we are Apple fans does not mean we need to be blind to these observable facts.
Thompson
The market is factoring in the china news and supply constraints.
Interesting tidbit on CultOfMac:
http://www.cultofmac.com/296669/att-tacks-40-monthly-fee-iphone-6-two-year-contract-upgrades/
I planned to trade-in/upgrade after the fervor dies down a bit, but not if AT&T is pulling this. Quietly announce this on launch day. Well done.
Never mind:
http://bgr.com/2014/09/19/att-iphone-6-upgrade-fee/
Aside from the people who are there to buy phones and re-sell them, I've never understood this desire to have to get the phone on the first day of release and I've certainly never understood the people who wait on a line for days when the phone could have been ordered online. I actually don't get it - if one has a job, how can they wait on line and if they don't have a job, one shouldn't be able to afford the phone (especially if they're buying it off contract and paying full price up front) unless they're independently wealthy, in which case you'd think one would have better things to do with their time.
Personally, about the longest I'd be willing to wait on any line is 15 minutes, which is why in the years when I've bought a new phone, it's been in Nove
Yep. I had to laugh at the picture of they guy holding his 6 or 6+ mugging for the camera. In January or February or whenever I get around to switching carriers and upgrading my 5, I guess I'll be the same as him except I'll hit the store after work some day and walk out with exactly what I want 10 minutes later. I've never preordered or stood in line. I sound boastful, so I guess I am. I'd rather say "yeah, I'll get it someday, but have more important things going on" than "ME FIRST!!".
Why the hate?
Wait my son is calling me, perhaps I should answer the call with my iPad instead of my iPhone.
Pardon me I am curious as to how you can verify that there is a glut of 5cs without quotes from the fortune tellers of Wall Street.
Apple report sales of products to end users not to the channel.
Munster was guessing and he guessed wrong and whatever nonsense he later sprouted was to cover his sorry a**.
Btw there is no way Munster can predict accurately how many iPhones Apple will be selling look no further his prediction for the Apple TV.
WOW...that came apart alarmingly easily. That apart...the guy was so nervous, struggling to cope with the media attention...and almost tricked into the faux pas as played out. In fact it was almost too good to be true...and the Aussie media loves a good spoof.
If it wasn't a setup, I hope he got a free phone.
Apple doesn't have that quick of access to sales tallies of each individual model at their 3rd party retailers, especially overseas ones, so your last assertion is false. Assuming a sell-out across all venues, the two would be identical, and that's what typically happens for new Apple iPhone models. But not even close for 5C last year. I actively went to numerous websites (ATT, Verizon, Sprint, Best Buy, etc) and all had ample stock of all colors of iPhone 5C last year for immediate delivery. Meanwhile, they didn't catch up with 5S demand until well into November. So Apple underestimated 5S demand and overestimated 5C demand. Apple even admitted that in January. No big deal, and they shifted their build plans accordingly. And Wall Street wrung their hands and fretted. History now.
All this means is that 9 million figure from last year is apples and oranges with all other figures and creates a tough compare for this year. Apples to apples, we should be compared to a number somewhat south of 9 million. Expect Wall Street to get it wrong again.
Thompson
Well, I see that the Apple community represented here on AI is not a very open one when it comes to differing opinions.
I guess you guys win. I am done with AI.
Does anyone else wonder why it took him 6,777 posts to come to his conclusion?
Pardon me I am curious as to how you can verify that there is a glut of 5cs without quotes from the fortune tellers of Wall Street.
Apple report sales of products to end users not to the channel.
Munster was guessing and he guessed wrong and whatever nonsense he later sprouted was to cover his sorry a**.
Btw there is no way Munster can predict accurately how many iPhones Apple will be selling look no further his prediction for the Apple TV.
Okay...
If everything you say is true then how do you know that Munster guessed wrong?
Really? I'd bet that the person who said this probably speaks one or two languages in addition to English. Subtle syntactic details like numerical grouping conventions don't always translate the same way across languages. I completely understand what the speaker meant, especially when I open up my acceptance filter to recognize and reward people who have gone the extra mile to learn my native language.
Today is a great day with reason to celebrate another Apple success story.
Maybe we start a spelling and grammar forum next week?
Yeah, anybody who has trouble with "tens of hundreds" would probably have some kind of aneurysm if they had to deal with lakhs and crores of rupees.
WOW...that came apart alarmingly easily. That apart...the guy was so nervous, struggling to cope with the media attention...and almost tricked into the faux pas as played out. In fact it was almost too good to be true...and the Aussie media loves a good spoof.
If it wasn't a setup, I hope he got a free phone.
The back didn't come off the phone... that was packaging.
According to the specifications page here:
[URL=http://www.apple.com/iphone-6/specs/]http://www.apple.com/iphone-6/specs/[/URL]
The Verizon iPhone 6 is CDMA/GSM and the AT&T iphone 6 ism GSM. All same bands.
Theoretically, the verizon phone would work on the ATT network if it's unlocked (I plan to pay full price).
I've talked with about a half a dozen different people from Apple to Verizon to T-Mobile and I'll getting conflicting stories.
Suggestions?:\
Sadly it seems it's all they're capable of doing.
Unrelated, but saw someone complain about Frequent/Recent Contacts showing up on the home button double-tap (I also don't like it)... there is a way to turn that off - as shown here: http://www.tekrevue.com/tip/remove-recent-contacts-ios-8-app-switcher/