@Mstrmac 1 He was selling loosies (single cigarettes) . Its illegal. 2 The police were called to the scene by the store owner who said he frequently sells loosies outside his store. 3 Supervising officer was a black police women who did not intervene. 4 He did not die of choking they say, He died of poor health reasons. 5 This man was 350 lbs and had something like 31 PREVIOUS offenses. What were they supposed to do when he resisted arrest? 7 Police had no intention of arresting him (they say) because they were there to tell him to stop selling loosies. Until he started becoming belligerent.
In 2014 there have been over 200,000 misdemeanor arrests in NY City, this is the first one with and very bad outcome. A senior police official said one change under discussion was the expanded use of Taser stun guns, which are available to a small number of New York officers but have been controversial here and elsewhere because of the risk they can pose to people with heart problems and other medical issues.
The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said stun guns could be a way to provide officers with more options for subduing people who were resisting arrest and avoiding the close contact that can lead to serious, even fatal, injuries to officers and suspects. *********************************************************************************** A pack of cigarettes in New York City sells for $12.85. Most expensive in the nation.
So individual selling "loosies" were circumventing the tax collections...so what do you think may be surmised from that? The rest his history..........
Incorrect. An indictment decides probable cause to charge, not guilt or innocence.
K. I don’t know how the law handles bobbies, but I’m pretty sure that a review of evidence that results in no charge for a crime will allow you to go ahead and say there were no crimes committed.
In the NYC case, I think the police acted inappropriately. They should have drawn their guns and demanded the suspect get down on the ground. Trying to physically subdue him knowing he was agitated and potentially violent was a mistake. They should always try to avoid getting into an altercation which involves hand to hand combat. In this type of situation, wrestling with the subject only reinforces the motivation of a large and muscular person to try to exert their size and strength in an attempt to alter the outcome of the situation. Had they simply enforced their authority with the threat of deadly force in the beginning, the subject would either comply or die by his own decision.
Was the prosecutor in the big evil union? There were public service unions before Kennedy. You never seem to pontificate about working conditions & treatment of working people before unions.
What I wrote was missing some critical detail. JFK signed an Executive Order allowing public employee unions to engage in collective bargaining, which has had a disastrous effect.
In the NYC case, I think the police acted inappropriately. They should have drawn their guns and demanded the suspect get down on the ground. Trying to physically subdue him knowing he was agitated and potentially violent was a mistake. They should always try to avoid getting into an altercation which involves hand to hand combat. In this type of situation, wrestling with the subject only reinforces the motivation of a large and muscular person to try to exert their size and strength in an attempt to alter the outcome of the situation. Had they simply enforced their authority with the threat of deadly force in the beginning, the subject would either comply or die by his own decision.
I'm pretty sure they have strict rules about unholstering and using their firearms in crowded or confined areas if their lives are not in immediate danger.
I'm pretty sure they have strict rules about unholstering and using their firearms in crowded or confined areas if their lives are not in immediate danger.
Any situation where handcuffs would be required, unholstering of handguns would also be allowed.
Eventually, these mostly young (read: college students) and/or unemployed will grow up and get a job. That is once they realize all the socialist utopia BS they have been served their whole young life is a croc and that they can't live in mommies basement playing Warcraft or Call of Duty anymore. C L O W N S.
The author of the story takes (in my opinion) far too much time explaining that he either dislikes Rand Paul or attempts to distance himself from his party in order to appeal to the typically East Coast Democrat audience they serve, but the core point of the discussion survives.
Okay? This isn't some great back market, organized crime ring...this is one guy selling loose cigarettes. This isn't some new phenomenon. This kind of thing has been going on forever. The fact that he may have just been trying to make extra money to make ends meet may be the actual factor. Why not just slap the guy with a citation & tell him if he disagrees he can fight it in court? Why are we wasting resources for this petty shit? How many officers were involved?
Okay? This isn't some great back market, organized crime ring...this is one guy selling loose cigarettes. This isn't some new phenomenon. This kind of thing has been going on forever. The fact that he may have just been trying to make extra money to make ends meet may be the actual factor. Why not just slap the guy with a citation & tell him if he disagrees he can fight it in court? Why are we wasting resources for this petty shit? How many officers were involved?
Honestly, I'm not following the story very closely. I'm more interested in the economic and political issues that have contributed to such an outcome.
What I wrote was missing some critical detail. JFK signed an Executive Order allowing public employee unions to engage in collective bargaining, which has had a disastrous effect.
From the same link...you left this critical part out also.
Passage of the executive order (by Kennedy) forestalled the legislative Rhodes-Johnson Union Recognition bill, which would have given more power to federal employee unions, possibly creating a union shop arrangement.
Executive Order 10988 was effectively replaced by President Richard Nixon's Executive Order 11491 in 1969. Richard Nixon a bleeding heart east coast liberal commie.
A protestor from Brooklyn named Zandir Santos said the 5th Ave. Apple Store, along with a nearby Macy's location, was selected as a message to corporate America.
"The CEO of Apple knows we shut his store down -- that means capitalist America is going to take us seriously," Santos said. "We are going to shake up your business and we want to hit you where it hurts."
======================
Ok... can someone explain to me how "corporate/capitalist America" is related to these incidents? I thought police officers were the ones involved. What am I missing here?
Protesting on public grounds with a permit is legal and supported by most citizens. Many people also support the right to demonstrate without a permit. However, protesting on private property is illegal and rightly so. The police should have escorted all of the demonstrators out of the store.
Of course not. Even a policeman doesn't have the right to use lethal force indiscriminately.
What the law does say, is that police have the right to use lethal force if they believe that they, or other people are in danger.
Michael Brown got shot less than 30 seconds after he had punched the officer, the fight in the car and the gun going off.
The policeman has adrenaline surging through his body, he sees Brown come in his direction. Now in that moment, does he have reason to believe his live is in danger?
Of course. His life may not actually have been in danger. But it's not unreasonable to assume that he DID feel that way in that split second. And that's why the grand jury chose not to prosecute him.
It doesn't mean that policeofficers can do anything they want. Or even that a policeman can use lethal force whenever he's attacked.
It only means that in this situation, the officer can't be prosecuted for firing his gun.
And hey, I ain't no great fan of police. Are there violent and corrupt cops? Sure. It's a lot fewer than in the past, but it's still a problem.
Are police in general too violent? Sure. They're also too quick to pull the gun in many cases, and the US justice system in general have serious issues.
But this is not a case that exemplifies any of these things. And neither does it have anything to do with racism.
Firing his gun... You make believe he shot only once.
Comments
1 He was selling loosies (single cigarettes) . Its illegal.
2 The police were called to the scene by the store owner who said he frequently sells loosies outside his store.
3 Supervising officer was a black police women who did not intervene.
4 He did not die of choking they say, He died of poor health reasons.
5 This man was 350 lbs and had something like 31 PREVIOUS offenses. What were they supposed to do when he resisted arrest?
7 Police had no intention of arresting him (they say) because they were there to tell him to stop selling loosies. Until he started becoming belligerent.
In 2014 there have been over 200,000 misdemeanor arrests in NY City, this is the first one with and very bad outcome.
A senior police official said one change under discussion was the expanded use of Taser stun guns, which are available to a small number of New York officers but have been controversial here and elsewhere because of the risk they can pose to people with heart problems and other medical issues.
The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said stun guns could be a way to provide officers with more options for subduing people who were resisting arrest and avoiding the close contact that can lead to serious, even fatal, injuries to officers and suspects.
***********************************************************************************
A pack of cigarettes in New York City sells for $12.85. Most expensive in the nation.
http://www.theawl.com/2014/08/how-much-a-pack-of-cigarettes-costs-state-by-state
The TAXES on that pack of cigarettes are $4.35 state PLUS $1.60 local city...$5.95.WOW
http://www.ibtimes.com/price-cigarettes-how-much-does-pack-cost-each-us-state-map-1553445
So individual selling "loosies" were circumventing the tax collections...so what do you think may be surmised from that? The rest his history..........
K. I don’t know how the law handles bobbies, but I’m pretty sure that a review of evidence that results in no charge for a crime will allow you to go ahead and say there were no crimes committed.
In the NYC case, I think the police acted inappropriately. They should have drawn their guns and demanded the suspect get down on the ground. Trying to physically subdue him knowing he was agitated and potentially violent was a mistake. They should always try to avoid getting into an altercation which involves hand to hand combat. In this type of situation, wrestling with the subject only reinforces the motivation of a large and muscular person to try to exert their size and strength in an attempt to alter the outcome of the situation. Had they simply enforced their authority with the threat of deadly force in the beginning, the subject would either comply or die by his own decision.
What I wrote was missing some critical detail. JFK signed an Executive Order allowing public employee unions to engage in collective bargaining, which has had a disastrous effect.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_10988
I'm pretty sure they have strict rules about unholstering and using their firearms in crowded or confined areas if their lives are not in immediate danger.
I'm pretty sure they have strict rules about unholstering and using their firearms in crowded or confined areas if their lives are not in immediate danger.
Any situation where handcuffs would be required, unholstering of handguns would also be allowed.
But not required.
But not required.
Correct. The police are not required to draw their handguns.
Because the demographic they are attempting to garner attention never visits skid row.
I daresay they're barking up the wrong tree.
Here's a video snippet and article in which Rand Paul makes an excellent point about what factors led up to that man selling cigarettes dying: http://www.theverge.com/2014/12/6/7343613/eric-garner-michael-brown-rand-paul-police-reform
The author of the story takes (in my opinion) far too much time explaining that he either dislikes Rand Paul or attempts to distance himself from his party in order to appeal to the typically East Coast Democrat audience they serve, but the core point of the discussion survives.
Okay? This isn't some great back market, organized crime ring...this is one guy selling loose cigarettes. This isn't some new phenomenon. This kind of thing has been going on forever. The fact that he may have just been trying to make extra money to make ends meet may be the actual factor. Why not just slap the guy with a citation & tell him if he disagrees he can fight it in court? Why are we wasting resources for this petty shit? How many officers were involved?
Honestly, I'm not following the story very closely. I'm more interested in the economic and political issues that have contributed to such an outcome.
Quote:
What I wrote was missing some critical detail. JFK signed an Executive Order allowing public employee unions to engage in collective bargaining, which has had a disastrous effect.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_10988
From the same link...you left this critical part out also.
Passage of the executive order (by Kennedy) forestalled the legislative Rhodes-Johnson Union Recognition bill, which would have given more power to federal employee unions, possibly creating a union shop arrangement.
Executive Order 10988 was effectively replaced by President Richard Nixon's Executive Order 11491 in 1969. Richard Nixon a bleeding heart east coast liberal commie.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=59075
Honestly, I'm not following the story very closely. I'm more interested in the economic and political issues that have contributed to such an outcome.
Yeah, I thought that is what we were talking about Rand Paul's comment about taxation (on cigarettes).
"The CEO of Apple knows we shut his store down -- that means capitalist America is going to take us seriously," Santos said. "We are going to shake up your business and we want to hit you where it hurts."
======================
Ok... can someone explain to me how "corporate/capitalist America" is related to these incidents? I thought police officers were the ones involved. What am I missing here?
Of course not. Even a policeman doesn't have the right to use lethal force indiscriminately.
What the law does say, is that police have the right to use lethal force if they believe that they, or other people are in danger.
Michael Brown got shot less than 30 seconds after he had punched the officer, the fight in the car and the gun going off.
The policeman has adrenaline surging through his body, he sees Brown come in his direction. Now in that moment, does he have reason to believe his live is in danger?
Of course. His life may not actually have been in danger. But it's not unreasonable to assume that he DID feel that way in that split second. And that's why the grand jury chose not to prosecute him.
It doesn't mean that policeofficers can do anything they want. Or even that a policeman can use lethal force whenever he's attacked.
It only means that in this situation, the officer can't be prosecuted for firing his gun.
And hey, I ain't no great fan of police. Are there violent and corrupt cops? Sure. It's a lot fewer than in the past, but it's still a problem.
Are police in general too violent? Sure. They're also too quick to pull the gun in many cases, and the US justice system in general have serious issues.
But this is not a case that exemplifies any of these things. And neither does it have anything to do with racism.
Firing his gun... You make believe he shot only once.
Actually, he shot 9 times