Rumor: Apple considering return to 4-inch form factor in 2015 with 'iPhone 6s mini'

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  • Reply 201 of 244
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    
    
    
    sog35 wrote: »
    I'm okay with them using the 5S shell.

    I'm against them making a brand new 4 inch metal shell.

    I really don't care what the shell is made of. It can be pressed horse shit for all I care, I just want a smaller phone, with modern tech, instead of the crap they are forcing down our throats now. Your denial that many of Apples customers are rejecting the large iPhones is perplexing. The new iPhines have certianly been a success biput that doesn't imply anything about the success potential for a modern smaller device.
  • Reply 202 of 244
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TYancy View Post



    I just completed my first long-distance road trip with a 6S. I love the phone, but the size of it made it a huge chore for one-handed use. Just getting a grip on it (and it has a rubbery, grippy case) was a huge headache. I wouldn't mind having some sort of stick-on wedge on the back just so I wouldn't have to try to wrap my entire hand around it and bend my thumb in an awkward position to use it. It was very difficult to hang on to it while doing something as simple as just pressing the home button.



    For this kind of use, I would have preferred a standard 6.



    I've a 6 Plus with a case with a cover. The cover, when folded open, makes the phone easy to hold stable with one hand. Though the superior case I expect would be the Vaja Flip case, which I've had on a couple of previous generations of iPhone, the one I'm using is their Agenda wallet since they've not yet offered a Flip (the say it's coming in approx. Jan.). Yeah I also have an Otterbox Defender for backpacking and that's a bulky setup for sure, though at least this year's model does leave Touch ID functional which my Armor for my 5s did not.

  • Reply 203 of 244
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post





    Apple has designed a brand new phone and sold it for $99. Prior to that they had no history of designing any brand new phone and selling it for $99. Your argument is specious, and only confirms you have no idea what you are talking about.



    I don't recall that being the 5c's price point, and I do recall all the bitching that the price was too high. Or was it?

     

    ETA: Ah, the subsidized two year contract selling price for the 16GB 5c was $99.

  • Reply 204 of 244
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

     

    Code:


     

    I really don't care what the shell is made of. It can be pressed horse shit for all I care, I just want a smaller phone, with modern tech, instead of the crap they are forcing down our throats now. Your denial that many of Apples customers are rejecting the large iPhones is perplexing. The new iPhines have certianly been a success biput that doesn't imply anything about the success potential for a modern smaller device.



    So the 5s, their flagship phone just a year ago is now relegated to "crap" that is being forced down our throats??? I don't agree with that.

  • Reply 205 of 244
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    I'm okay with them using the 5S shell.

     

    I'm against them making a brand new 4 inch metal shell.


     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CanukStorm View Post

     

    Except Apple wouldn't have to make a newly designed 4" iPhone.  They already have a great design in the 5s.  All they have to do is update that device to have A8 / TouchID / NFC / Apple Pay, at the very least, and they're good to go.  That would make a great mid-tier iPhone.


     

    Yes, this makes sense to me. Update the guts of a 5S (with NFC for ApplePay) and retain the 5S chassis. The circuit boards are changed, but the chassis tooling is unchanged.

     

    If you make a new 4" phone with the same thickness and design of the 6/6+, battery life will suffer vs. the 5S. I doubt Apple would want that, nor to make a thicker 6/6+ design (for 4"), so retaining the 5S chassis makes sense. Lower development cost but updated features.

     

    I would hope that next year's offerings would have NFC across all iPhone models in order to really get ApplePay rolling.

  • Reply 206 of 244
    formosa wrote: »
    Yes, this makes sense to me. Update the guts of a 5S (with NFC for ApplePay) and retain the 5S chassis. The circuit boards are changed, but the chassis tooling is unchanged.

    That won't work because of the antennas needed for NFC. Even if that wasn't the case, technically the chassis would still be changed because of how the circuit board would sit in there… assuming they could fit everything in there. You can see this by looking at any previous YoY iPhones at iFixit that have very similar external appearance.
  • Reply 207 of 244
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post





    That won't work because of the antennas needed for NFC. Even if that wasn't the case, technically the chassis would still be changed because of how the circuit board would sit in there… assuming they could fit everything in there. You can see this by looking at any previous YoY iPhones at iFixit that have very similar external appearance.

     

    Where exactly is the NFC antenna (the actual radiating structure)? I could not find definitive information about it in the iFixit iPhone 6 teardown. Behind the Apple logo? (doesn't look like it.) SMT coil on a flex? (very possible.) Flattened coil structure embedded somewhere in the chassis/flex/circuit board? (most possible.) I suspect some very custom implementation in the 6/6+ chassis, which would not be transferable to the 5S chassis.

     

    http://rapidnfc.com/blog/118/apple_iphone_6_and_case_of_missing_antenna

  • Reply 208 of 244
    "iPhone 6 Minus"
  • Reply 209 of 244
    formosa wrote: »
    Where exactly is the NFC antenna (the actual radiating structure)? I could not find definitive information about it in the iFixit iPhone 6 teardown. Behind the Apple logo? (doesn't look like it.) SMT coil on a flex? (very possible.) Flattened coil structure embedded somewhere in the chassis/flex/circuit board? (most possible.) I suspect some very custom implementation in the 6/6+ chassis, which would not be transferable to the 5S chassis.

    http://rapidnfc.com/blog/118/apple_iphone_6_and_case_of_missing_antenna

    It's in the flex board at the top of device. Check Step 17.
  • Reply 210 of 244
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post





    It's in the flex board at the top of device. Check Step 17.

     

    Thanks. That is a unique design.

  • Reply 211 of 244
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,075member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gluben View Post

     

    I still think that the iPhone and iPad models should be produced like this:

     

    iPhone S - 4 inches (small)

    iPhone M - 4.7 inches (medium)

    iPhone L - 5.5 inches (large)

     

    iPad S - 7.9 inches (small)

    iPad M - 9.7 inches (medium)

    iPad L - 12.9 inches (large)

     

    That way, we have a size catering for everyone, plus Apple gets more customers for three separate products in both phone and tablet categories.


    I agree but would like to see virtual SIMs technology universally supported in phones and carriers with the ability of one phone number being shared across multiple phones.    My main phone number would be like (123)-456-7890 shared on my 4inch iPhone (123)-456-7890A

    and my 5.5 inch iPhonePlus (123)-456-7890B.    This way I could choose whether I wanted to carry the big phone or little phone any given day.      And of course some day an iWatch will probably have a Cell and LTE connection so it could be (123)-456-7890A.       Of course this is probably more than 10 years down the road because of the carriers.

  • Reply 212 of 244
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    solipsismy wrote: »
    That won't work because of the antennas needed for NFC. Even if that wasn't the case, technically the chassis would still be changed because of how the circuit board would sit in there… assuming they could fit everything in there. You can see this by looking at any previous YoY iPhones at iFixit that have very similar external appearance.

    Isn't the 5s bigger than the 6? So there's room for everything.
  • Reply 213 of 244
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    Isn't the 5s bigger than the 6? So there's room for everything.

    The volume is more than the 6, but is there room inside for the additional components? Probably not, but even changing the display elements could save a lot of space, but that seems to result in a thinner chassis over a thicker battery with daughter boards stacked atop the main board other.
  • Reply 214 of 244
    solipsismy wrote: »
    The volume is more than the 6, but is there room inside for the additional components? Probably not, but even changing the display elements could save a lot of space, but that seems to result in a thinner chassis over a thicker battery with daughter boards stacked atop the main board other.

    Components are constantly shrinking so why shouldn't they be able to fit?
  • Reply 215 of 244
    dasanman69 wrote: »
    Components are constantly shrinking so why shouldn't they be able to fit?

    1) Not constantly.

    2) I think they could add the requisite NFC components to the 5S (?Watch has NFC), but it would take R&D. It's not simply popping it in the 5S with no other changes, as has been suggested in this thread. It would be an entirely new model, not a 5S /w NFC.
  • Reply 216 of 244

    If Apple decided to make a 4" equivalent to that of a flagship 5.5" phone; which I doubt; the A9 SoC is going be 14nm from that of the A8 20 nm thick.  Just that reduction will reduce the power consumption by 30%-40% across the board!  So, it they use the 5C or 5S chassis and battery; it will have much longer battery life.  The NFC chip is very small 1/4" in size so I think Apple could just fit it in since the A9 is also smaller too.   I don't see Apple doing a flagship 4" model again since they need a budget level iPhone and the 4" is designated to take that spot in the food chain.   I see the 2015 Apple Mini as being even more dumb down in terms of specs to keep the carriers happy.  No more storage choice only 8GB option.  Only two colors: black or white.  I sure Apple will not offer Apple Pay NFC nor Touch ID on the Mini since the carriers don't want that on their "zero" down payment iPhone.  Both Sprint and Verizon have their own payment system and rumor is has request that Apple prohibit their versions of the carrier version iPhone brands for the 2015 models from having Apple Pay.    The iPhone Mini will be price a little higher then $450 off contract price just to make the "zero" down 2 year even more attractive to potential buyers.

  • Reply 217 of 244
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Harry Wild View Post

     

    If Apple decided to make a 4" equivalent to that of a flagship 5.5" phone; which I doubt; the A9 SoC is going be 14nm from that of the A8 20 nm thick.  Just that reduction will reduce the power consumption by 30%-40% across the board!  So, it they use the 5C or 5S chassis and battery; it will have much longer battery life.  The NFC chip is very small 1/4" in size so I think Apple could just fit it in since the A9 is also smaller too.   I don't see Apple doing a flagship 4" model again since they need a budget level iPhone and the 4" is designated to take that spot in the food chain.   I see the 2015 Apple Mini as being even more dumb down in terms of specs to keep the carriers happy.  No more storage choice only 8GB option.  Only two colors: black or white.  I sure Apple will not offer Apple Pay NFC nor Touch ID on the Mini since the carriers don't want that on their "zero" down payment iPhone.  Both Sprint and Verizon have their own payment system and rumor is has request that Apple prohibit their versions of the carrier version iPhone brands for the 2015 models from having Apple Pay.    The iPhone Mini will be price a little higher then $450 off contract price just to make the "zero" down 2 year even more attractive to potential buyers.


     

    There is no chance that the bottom rung phone doesn't get Touch ID and NFC next year, not a chance (This is to unify their platform), also by then, the 16G and 8G package will essentially be the same price, so I think they'll dump 8G too. Also, they get the current 6 camera.

  • Reply 218 of 244
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismY View Post





    The volume is more than the 6, but is there room inside for the additional components? Probably not, but even changing the display elements could save a lot of space, but that seems to result in a thinner chassis over a thicker battery with daughter boards stacked atop the main board other.

     

    There is a limit to how thin the chassis can be (Optics for the camera basically). The Thickness of the 6 (with the bump), is at the limits of what can be done. Only other option, make the phone uneaven in thickness from to bottom. That way they could make it 6mm thick at the top and say 4mm at the bottom (with the phone very slightly tilting)

  • Reply 219 of 244
    I also passed on the 6 because I really don't want anything bigger.
    bringing it out as a low end phone would suck big time, I don't watch many movies or play games on my iPhone but I wouldn't want to be penalised in performance in other areas.

    On the other hand by late 2015 I'm sure that even the low end iPhone performance will be awesome anyway.
  • Reply 220 of 244
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Harry Wild View Post

     

    If Apple decided to make a 4" equivalent to that of a flagship 5.5" phone; which I doubt; the A9 SoC is going be 14nm from that of the A8 20 nm thick.  Just that reduction will reduce the power consumption by 30%-40% across the board!  So, it they use the 5C or 5S chassis and battery; it will have much longer battery life.  The NFC chip is very small 1/4" in size so I think Apple could just fit it in since the A9 is also smaller too.   I don't see Apple doing a flagship 4" model again since they need a budget level iPhone and the 4" is designated to take that spot in the food chain.   I see the 2015 Apple Mini as being even more dumb down in terms of specs to keep the carriers happy.  No more storage choice only 8GB option.  Only two colors: black or white.  I sure Apple will not offer Apple Pay NFC nor Touch ID on the Mini since the carriers don't want that on their "zero" down payment iPhone.  Both Sprint and Verizon have their own payment system and rumor is has request that Apple prohibit their versions of the carrier version iPhone brands for the 2015 models from having Apple Pay.    The iPhone Mini will be price a little higher then $450 off contract price just to make the "zero" down 2 year even more attractive to potential buyers.


     

    I agree that the future lineup should have NFC across the board, but also I agree with Solipsism that the existing 5S chassis can't be used as-is, primarily due to the NFC antenna.

     

    Check my post #244 for the iPhone 6 teardown link. There appears to be two chips for NFC, but neither are the antenna. The antenna is a flex shown in step 17. It has to be large due to the low frequency (13+ MHz) vs. Bluetooth or WiFi (2.4+ GHz). So that will require a larger non-metallic opening in the chassis for proper operation. I don't think there's enough opening left in the existing 5S chassis (iFixit 5S teardown) to squeeze it in, so some sort of redesign would be needed (see step 19 for the combined BT/WiFi antenna flex at the top of the phone - there is no space up there for an NFC antenna).

     

    So the question is: does Apple think a 4" iPhone is worthy of keeping up with the 6/6+ (to justify a redesign)? Or is the 4" model banished to be the perpetual entry model with last year's hardware?

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