I'm reading a lot of praise here for Tim Cook. How many of you were calling for his removal not so long ago calling him "not Steve Jobs".
I believed in Tim all along. He was hand picked by Jobs. He's smart, talented, and has turned Apple into the most valuable company in the world. He believes in using Apple standards and best of all that market share doesn't equal profitability.
If you read that piece in The Atlantic, it's not that simple. Honestly, if you read that, you can see how so many young middle-class Muslims around the world are easily recruited. ISIS seems to have a very simple and direct approach to their faith. To dismiss it as unrelated to Islam is missing the point.
To dismiss it as unrelated to Western imperialism, colonialism and racism is also to miss the point, by a much wider margin. I haven't read the piece, by the way, so if this is what underlies the story, apologies.
... propaganda it feeds to impressionable young people about what it says it is.
A serious question. Why are the 'impressionable young' so susceptible in this case? I honestly do not see the type of recruiting going on -- and people signing on to take part in savage brutality -- in the numbers that we see with any other religion or ideology.
And as to your somewhat ambiguous wording "what it says it is", what exactly are ISIS doing that is different from what they 'say' they'll be doing?
Strong language...I'm surprised TC called for the wholesale elimination of terrorists. And yes, he's speaking of the ISIS cabal in the middle east.
Obama isn't going to get it done. It's going to take the next President and new ideas, starting with being able to say who the enemy is in the first place.
I would have thought Cook would have held it back a bit on this controversial topic!
It is a deeply stirring speech, and worthy read. If I had my way, those three depraved racists would have been executed on the spot (I believe in the death penalty for egregious cases of brutality).
There's a difference between what ISIS is in practice and the propaganda it feeds to impressionable young people about what it says it is. As to what ISIS is described as being operationally, I'm inclined to give more credence to the experience of an Arab Muslim king who is walking the walk to defend his Middle East country, rather than a Canadian freelance journalist who apparently is not Muslim himself, speaks limited Arabic and does most of his information gathering some 5,000 miles from the heart of the conflict.
I'm not sure where the article is at odds with the king's statements. Guess I'd be interested to see any research you have to contradict the article though, given a similar distance from theater of war.
To dismiss it as unrelated to Western imperialism, colonialism and racism is also to miss the point, by a much wider margin. I haven't read the piece, by the way, so if this is what underlies the story, apologies.
Agreed. I don't see where this idea is at odds with the article.
rogifan: so the guy who killed Osama Bin Laden "isn't doing enough" to eliminate terrorists? Really? Pray, who do you figure has done a better job than Obama? The guy before him, who was warned about terrorist airstrikes and "decider'd" to ignore it, allowing 9-11 to happen in the first place?
Tim is right. The bad guys already use encryption. Outlawing privacy does not make us more secure. You can't rely on the government to monitor itself for abuse. It just makes a mockery of all that we stand and fight for.
Good to know that Tim Cook appears not to follow liberal dogma 100%. Maybe if he was commander in chief right now we'd actually be winning the war against Islamic extremists like ISIS.
Interesting... Everything he said seems to me to align with progressive thought. I did not see anything that went against this.
Please get yourself and your bigoted trash out of this fucking thread. Every sane Muslim on this planet (ie. 99.999%) sees groups like ISIS as an abomination, and terrorists who do not represent anything they stand for, just like everyone else. But no, you're angry because you want every single Muslim in the world to be hated and feared anywhere they are, and your fantasy would be for every single one of them to be shot dead, arrested, or deported. In your estimation, Cook should have called out every Muslim as evil, right? The actions of groups like ISIS stand in contradiction to everything that the VAST majority of Muslims believe, and that the religion is based on. Oh, and most of the people ISIS is killing are Muslims, if you haven't noticed.
Enough with your "liberal media" trash and your never-ending hatred and bigotry. Maybe you can step outside whatever shithole town you reside in, and realize there's a world out there where normal people of all cultures and religions get along, so you can stop your hatred and smear campaigns against every minority group under the sun. Try maybe getting to know a single Muslim, instead of basing your views on hate.I'm a Muslim, and I despise ISIS and similar groups more than you do- I would gladly wipe them off the face of the earth if I was able. Yet, I know and have met thousands of Muslims, and have never met one that advocated violence or believed such ideologies. I'm sick and tired of getting banned by speaking against the hate you spew, instead of you getting banned for spewing it. Enough of your generalizations and hate-speech.
Is that the bs Frost posts? Makes me glad I blocked him
I consider myself a moderate guy and I recognize that the terrorism problem is complex, certainly enough so that we are not going to solve it in a forum on data privacy rights. However, I do feel the need to say that you are burying your head in the sand if you ignore the institutional and legal positions of many Muslim nations and populations.
I know it upsets me. Again, the difference is this isn't three racists working against the laws of the country and being virally denounced over a free and open internet, these are populations in support of these outmoded and dangerous ideas.
Agreed. I don't see where this idea is at odds with the article.
Yes, there's a clear statement of this point in the article. The US invasion of Iraq created the space for ISIS to move in. Of course, this turns out to be a minor point, given the scope of the rebirth of the caliphate as a fulfillment of Islamic destiny, self-described, based on their fundamentalist interpretation.
But the article barely addresses a broader and more useful question that concerns us here, including Tim Cook and all of us who care about the topic at hand. The pocket computer/communicator arrives at the very moment when we have a re-emergence of fascism, this time based on the broken psychology of the last and most radical of the patriarchal, male-dominated religions. This is no coincidence.
Fascism appears when a marginalized, humiliated group with a hegemonic ideology gets a new and powerful mass communication medium. For Hitler and Mussolini it was radio, cinema, and public address systems. For North Korea, television. For ISIS, it's the Internet and cell phone.
The exact nature of the ideology, its eschatological details, don't matter as much as long as it contains the capacity for final victory and triumph of the previously humiliated patriarchal warriors. For the Italians, a mixture of Roman glory and Catholicism would do. For the Nazis, it was Teutonic mythology derived from Berserker shamanic warfare. These revival cults have no relation to ordinary contemporary people living with the evolved cultural inheritance of the distant tribal past.
Whether they know it or not, Germans in their beer halls are living out the old ways of Wotan/Odin, leaving out the going-into-battle part, just as modern Muslims have outgrown the beheading of unbelievers.
American Puritanical Protestants no longer burn witches, but as someone here pointed out, they do kill doctors and bomb abortion clinics. It is both technically correct and viciously wrong to see anti-abortion killers as Christians. They are better thought of as fascists who haven't yet found their mass medium and audience.
The most interesting and useful approach is that pioneered by Nazi-era psychiatrist Wilhelm Reich in his Mass Psychology of Fascism. The emasculated son of a patriarchal warrior society is the source of the pathology, where the breaking of the normal bonds of human empathy occur and the vital force of the individual is misdirected into destructive behaviors like beheading and mass murder. Our Atlantic author might want to go beyond poor George Orwell, who lacked the psychological breadth to deal with the mind of a Hitler, as the quotes show.
The real antidote to this round of fascism is the continued expansion of knowledge and understanding, via the same medium of communication that made the perversion possible. We are failing at the understanding part. The Internet is a cacophony of simplistic, adolescent-male memes. We need more history and more empathy.
By the way, Tim Cook said "eliminate," not "exterminate." I twisted his words earlier. Let's see how he explains the word he used.
Hey Tim can you relay this message to your buddy Obama? Nobody in their right mind could say he's doing everything he can do to eliminate them. kthxbye
Er, wait, who eliminated bin laden? Bush or Obama?
The real antidote to this round of fascism is the continued expansion of knowledge and understanding, via the same medium of communication that made the perversion possible. We are failing at the understanding part.
.
Really? What love and care and understanding was 'Jihadi John' (I detest that term, makes him sound like a cartoon character like 'Joe Camel') lacking?
Good to know that Tim Cook appears not to follow liberal dogma 100%. Maybe if he was commander in chief right now we'd actually be winning the war against Islamic extremists like ISIS.
You can't win the "war" against terrorism anymore than you can win the "war" on drugs. They aren't wars. Theyre opposing views and they won't ever go away...
Hey Tim can you relay this message to your buddy Obama? Nobody in their right mind could say he's doing everything he can do to eliminate them. kthxbye
The answer is not military though parts of me wishes it was. The answer lies in eliminating the reasons these groups can find sympathetic ears to their cause. ISIL's rise is not all that different than what happened in Germany after WW I. Any large group of people, that see in the future only hopelessness will willfully blame any outside (or different embedded) culture for their woes.
The way out of this madness is the free flow of people, information and wealth from one location to another. From one person to another. This does not mean giving away money or income redistribution just that the roads must be open for anyone to choose to walk the path to success. Most will not succeed wildly but they will enjoy the travel and challenge finding self worth in trying.
Comments
I'm reading a lot of praise here for Tim Cook. How many of you were calling for his removal not so long ago calling him "not Steve Jobs".
I believed in Tim all along. He was hand picked by Jobs. He's smart, talented, and has turned Apple into the most valuable company in the world. He believes in using Apple standards and best of all that market share doesn't equal profitability.
Yep; me, too.
Jobs knew what he was doing.
Let me remind you of your most obnoxious post ever regarding Tim Cook, which is saying something:
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/183399/apple-watch-chip-suppliers-rumored-to-start-production-soon-orders-at-30m-to-40m-units/80#post_2639076
To dismiss it as unrelated to Western imperialism, colonialism and racism is also to miss the point, by a much wider margin. I haven't read the piece, by the way, so if this is what underlies the story, apologies.
I wasn't aware the KKK was beheading and burning people alive right now.
Then you need to educate yourself: A Black Mississippi Judge's Breathtaking Speech To 3 White Murderers -
http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2015/02/12/385777366/a-black-mississippi-judges-breathtaking-speech-to-three-white-murderers ;
Evil cannot be destroyed or eliminated only transformed into Goodness
I couldn't disagree more.
... propaganda it feeds to impressionable young people about what it says it is.
A serious question. Why are the 'impressionable young' so susceptible in this case? I honestly do not see the type of recruiting going on -- and people signing on to take part in savage brutality -- in the numbers that we see with any other religion or ideology.
And as to your somewhat ambiguous wording "what it says it is", what exactly are ISIS doing that is different from what they 'say' they'll be doing?
Strong language...I'm surprised TC called for the wholesale elimination of terrorists. And yes, he's speaking of the ISIS cabal in the middle east.
Obama isn't going to get it done. It's going to take the next President and new ideas, starting with being able to say who the enemy is in the first place.
I would have thought Cook would have held it back a bit on this controversial topic!
But he did say it so I say, Kudos, Tim!
(
Then you need to educate yourself: A Black Mississippi Judge's Breathtaking Speech To 3 White Murderers -
http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2015/02/12/385777366/a-black-mississippi-judges-breathtaking-speech-to-three-white-murderers ;
It is a deeply stirring speech, and worthy read. If I had my way, those three depraved racists would have been executed on the spot (I believe in the death penalty for egregious cases of brutality).
But where does he say 'KKK'?
I'm not sure where the article is at odds with the king's statements. Guess I'd be interested to see any research you have to contradict the article though, given a similar distance from theater of war.
Agreed. I don't see where this idea is at odds with the article.
The more I hear Tim talk the more I like this guy! What a great CEO!!
Tim Cook Flies in the face off all the CEO's that claim their only responsibility is to their share holders!
Here is a guy that does very well for his share holders but also takes the stance that a company should act in a moral way!
Good to know that Tim Cook appears not to follow liberal dogma 100%. Maybe if he was commander in chief right now we'd actually be winning the war against Islamic extremists like ISIS.
Interesting... Everything he said seems to me to align with progressive thought. I did not see anything that went against this.
Perhaps this upsets Tim?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/02/24/here-are-the-10-countries-where-homosexuality-may-be-punished-by-death/
I know it upsets me. Again, the difference is this isn't three racists working against the laws of the country and being virally denounced over a free and open internet, these are populations in support of these outmoded and dangerous ideas.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/05/01/64-percent-of-muslims-in-egypt-and-pakistan-support-the-death-penalty-for-leaving-islam/
I'm not going to pretend I have the answer, but you have to at least acknowledge there is a problem to be able understand and address it.
Yes, there's a clear statement of this point in the article. The US invasion of Iraq created the space for ISIS to move in. Of course, this turns out to be a minor point, given the scope of the rebirth of the caliphate as a fulfillment of Islamic destiny, self-described, based on their fundamentalist interpretation.
But the article barely addresses a broader and more useful question that concerns us here, including Tim Cook and all of us who care about the topic at hand. The pocket computer/communicator arrives at the very moment when we have a re-emergence of fascism, this time based on the broken psychology of the last and most radical of the patriarchal, male-dominated religions. This is no coincidence.
Fascism appears when a marginalized, humiliated group with a hegemonic ideology gets a new and powerful mass communication medium. For Hitler and Mussolini it was radio, cinema, and public address systems. For North Korea, television. For ISIS, it's the Internet and cell phone.
The exact nature of the ideology, its eschatological details, don't matter as much as long as it contains the capacity for final victory and triumph of the previously humiliated patriarchal warriors. For the Italians, a mixture of Roman glory and Catholicism would do. For the Nazis, it was Teutonic mythology derived from Berserker shamanic warfare. These revival cults have no relation to ordinary contemporary people living with the evolved cultural inheritance of the distant tribal past.
Whether they know it or not, Germans in their beer halls are living out the old ways of Wotan/Odin, leaving out the going-into-battle part, just as modern Muslims have outgrown the beheading of unbelievers.
American Puritanical Protestants no longer burn witches, but as someone here pointed out, they do kill doctors and bomb abortion clinics. It is both technically correct and viciously wrong to see anti-abortion killers as Christians. They are better thought of as fascists who haven't yet found their mass medium and audience.
The most interesting and useful approach is that pioneered by Nazi-era psychiatrist Wilhelm Reich in his Mass Psychology of Fascism. The emasculated son of a patriarchal warrior society is the source of the pathology, where the breaking of the normal bonds of human empathy occur and the vital force of the individual is misdirected into destructive behaviors like beheading and mass murder. Our Atlantic author might want to go beyond poor George Orwell, who lacked the psychological breadth to deal with the mind of a Hitler, as the quotes show.
The real antidote to this round of fascism is the continued expansion of knowledge and understanding, via the same medium of communication that made the perversion possible. We are failing at the understanding part. The Internet is a cacophony of simplistic, adolescent-male memes. We need more history and more empathy.
By the way, Tim Cook said "eliminate," not "exterminate." I twisted his words earlier. Let's see how he explains the word he used.
Er, wait, who eliminated bin laden? Bush or Obama?
Really? What love and care and understanding was 'Jihadi John' (I detest that term, makes him sound like a cartoon character like 'Joe Camel') lacking?
You can't win the "war" against terrorism anymore than you can win the "war" on drugs. They aren't wars. Theyre opposing views and they won't ever go away...
The way out of this madness is the free flow of people, information and wealth from one location to another. From one person to another. This does not mean giving away money or income redistribution just that the roads must be open for anyone to choose to walk the path to success. Most will not succeed wildly but they will enjoy the travel and challenge finding self worth in trying.