Macrumors seems to have a more diverse, polite, and open-minded community. Here you either drink the cool-aid or get slapped around. I'm sure a lot of people are turned off to the narrominded dialogue and personal attacks that happen here.
It's a Lord of the Flies atmosphere here that I don't feel existed before, at least to the degree it does now.
are you serious? i suggest you spend some time at MR....after 5 years I've largely given it up because its overridden w/ both apple haters and the apparent very young, who are close-mindededly living under the assumption that their own personal use cases represent all possible use cases for all people. they are a venomous lot.
I know it can get frustrating when you see the same BS argument for the nth-teen time that derails an otherwise interesting discussion, but it's still our fault if we don't first try to use reason and civil discourse to figure out why or how they came to such an erroneous conclusion.
not when it comes from the same troll, time after time. and there is no mistaking it -- BF meets the criteria for a troll on this site.
There is no guidance or moderation on Appleinsider.
not so. i went years on MR w/o any discourse issues, but in one year on AI I've already been banned twice (once seemingly reversed on inquiry). while i dont always understand their moderation (they let racism slide, which is mind boggling, but they appear to be conservatives so perhaps not surprising), it is apparently happening.
And the funny thing is, it isn't even an argument. It's a statement of fact. You just think it is because you're not bothering to read the context, and likely don't care.
no, it's an argument, even if you dont explicitly say "this is my argument". I've read many of your posts here. you bring up reason for why things are a fail, and this is just another one of them -- your mom may forget to charge or wear it, therefore the point of it (or at least apple pay on it) is questionable. thats been your argument, even if you dont preface it formally.
I'm really a big fan of the sports version, lime green sports band. Suits my lifestyle and if I'm going to have one might as well make sure everyone sees it.
The only version that confuses me is 18k gold. Seems like gold that soft can get scratched easily. Not as soft as 24k but 14k may have been the best option.
you've likely seen it by now, but apple patented a process for making hardened gold.
Hello? Are you not paying attention? The watch does nothing without being tethered to an iPhone. The NFC chip in the watch only allows older iPhones to make payments. The iPhone is required to make the transaction with the cellular signal. The watch will never do it alone, ever. People can pay just as quickly with their iPhone. The watch will not make a transaction faster.
incorrect. it can play music wirelessly to headphones, it can do fitness tracking. we dont know yet whether it will make purchases. remember the demo of using it to unlock Star hotel doors via NFC?
Idiots wasting $349+ for a duplicate device is what many people see. The smart watch market is a dead one. I can pay with the iPhone using one hand. The watch requires two hands to pay. One to hold the watch over the reader and the other to double-press the side button. That's supposed to be faster? Idiots buying beer at a stadium will have to put their beer down to pay. They won't like that. Of course the watch battery will be dead by the evening sports game. Amazed you kool-aid drinkers haven't figured that out.
The question of "idiots" is a keen one, because you for sure do *not* know the it won't do purchases, nor that the battery will be dead by the evening -- tech crunch has testers reporting 25% left by bedtime.
incorrect. it can play music wirelessly to headphones, it can do fitness tracking. we dont know yet whether it will make purchases. remember the demo of using it to unlock Star hotel doors via NFC?
Surely you're wrong and he's right. ?Watch has built-in storage for storing music which can be played via BT headphones... but you need an iPhone tethered to it for that to work. Sounds like something Apple would do. /s
PS: I'm loving the new layover data in AI's forum SW.
Amazing how you people have no idea how the watch works. The watch does nothing without an iPhone. Even Apple Pay doesn't work because the phone processes all functions, including payments. Read something other than AppleInsider and you might actually learn something.
how about you link us to an article that states what you claim as fact?
An iPhone and iPad do not require daily recharging. With daily use, my iPad lasts a week. My iPhone, half of a week. The Apple watch...can't last a full day. But Apple will gladly take a fool's money. Just wait until the Apple watch is a year old with half the charging capacity from that tiny battery. Then you'll hear people bitch and complain.
nonsense. most iPhones require daily charging. have never met anyone who gets 3.5 days per charge. what, is it sitting in a drawer somewhere?
To restate: ?Watch will have many functions independent of an iPhone being tethered and ?Pay data is stored on the NFC's secure element on ?Watch which is then send via the NFC antenna to the merchant who then sends it to your bank. The iPhone is not the processor for your payments and you don't need an internet connection to make a payment.
Those are not to be argued. Those are facts.
bingo. the secure element holds the CC token, which gets transmitted via NFC to the merchant's NFC reader. they're the ones who send it to the bank for authentication, not the iPhone. thus i bet it will work w/o an iPhone present.
What if your car breaks down or another accident? Not having your phone is flat out irresponsible.
Did you forget the sarcmark? Do you shower with your iPhone? What happens if you slip and fall in the shower. Not having your phone is flat out irresponsible¡
We'll see. I predict less than 10 million, making it a failure.
Unfortunately, Tim Cook has already said that he's not going to release sales figures, so we can presume it will sell poorly. Steve Jobs would have released figures.
10 million would be about quadruple the existing smartphone market. Hardly a failure.
no, it's an argument, even if you dont explicitly say "this is my argument". I've read many of your posts here. you bring up reason for why things are a fail, and this is just another one of them -- your mom may forget to charge or wear it, therefore the point of it (or at least apple pay on it) is questionable. thats been your argument, even if you dont preface it formally.
It's not an argument for why the ?Watch will fail, as you incorrectly assume by taking my comment out of context. It's a reason I may not buy it for her -- statement of fact: the ?Watch has at best one day battery life and must be recharged every day. And it's a reason I wouldn't buy ANY smart watch for her. Just like if it's not water-proof, I wouldn't buy the watch for myself for surfing. However, the in-context argument I was making was to Rogifan's ageist stereotype that the elderly and infirm do not use Apple products because they are too advanced or sophisticated for them. Not to mention other persons with physical impairments of other ages for whom one might consider certain functions of the ?Watch incompatible with their needs. You may read many of my posts and make all kinds of biased inferences, but clearly you haven't read all of them, like where I defended Apple's excellent work in device Accessibility, and that I expect the ?Watch to be no different.
But please, do go on to tell me what my arguments are, since you clearly are such an intuitive expert on the matter /s
nonsense. most iPhones require daily charging. have never met anyone who gets 3.5 days per charge. what, is it sitting in a drawer somewhere?
Just because you can't imagine a situation where it happens means nobody else does? I can generally get 2 full days out of my iPhone if I'm not using it much. I'll tell you where I won't be using the ?Watch, hiking and camping. At least with the iPhone, even if I don't turn off all the radios when not using it, and use it sparingly to get 4-5 days out of it, I can carry along backup battery chargers. I guess I'll need specialized backup battery chargers for my ?Watch now too? The watch was the one thing people didn't need to carry a charger for.
Oh well, I guess people are used to charging everything they use now, what's one more device they didn't used to have to charge daily? People who complain about charging one extra thing when they're already charging others are just lazy whiners and don't deserve to own Apple products. /s
We'll see. I predict less than 10 million, making it a failure.
Unfortunately, Tim Cook has already said that he's not going to release sales figures, so we can presume it will sell poorly. Steve Jobs would have released figures.
10 million would be about quadruple the existing smartphone market. Hardly a failure.
The smartphone market is 2.5 million a year?
Apple alone sold 74 million iPhones last quarter.
So yes, less than 10 million would be a flop. As we know that this watch will not make much difference to the bottom line, it’s all about Apple's reputation. That's where the real damage is likely to be done, which bodes ill for the future, as this is the first new product of the post-Jobs era. The long-term question of whether Apple can produce another Jobs-sized hit is about to be revealed, or not, due to Cook's decision to with-hold sales figures. If he really had confidence in it, he would have broken it out as a separate category, as Jobs did for the iPhone and the iPad.
He didn't say 60 million in the first year. Apple product sales are cyclical, so even if they sold 15 million in 3 months, you don't simply multiply that by 4 to get the annual figure.
So yes, less than 10 million would be a flop. As we know that this watch will not make much difference to the bottom line, it’s all about Apple's reputation. That's where the real damage is likely to be done, which bodes ill for the future, as this is the first new product of the post-Jobs era. The long-term question of whether Apple can produce another Jobs-sized hit is about to be revealed, or not, due to Cook's decision to with-hold sales figures. If he really had confidence in it, he would have broken it out as a separate category, as Jobs did for the iPhone and the iPad.
I'm not likely to buy into apple watch as I'm dead on happy with my iPhone, iPad, MBP and Air combination. However, I think apple watch will be a massive success. You sound a lot like the doomsayers when iPhone 1 launched, and when Air "1" launched, not enough battery time, too little memory and storage, no USB etc etc. As second, third and fourth gen watches emerge as part of the ecosystem my prediction is this will be a great product. What you will have as an apple customer is the ability to pick all sorts of devices to suit your own preferences and circumstance all of which are part of the one ecosystem. I don't understand why you have such a down on this yet to launch product.
Comments
And why would you leave your phone at home?
this one's easy: jogging. id prefer to job only w/ my watch, not w/ my phone, for weight and security reasons.
Macrumors seems to have a more diverse, polite, and open-minded community. Here you either drink the cool-aid or get slapped around. I'm sure a lot of people are turned off to the narrominded dialogue and personal attacks that happen here.
It's a Lord of the Flies atmosphere here that I don't feel existed before, at least to the degree it does now.
are you serious? i suggest you spend some time at MR....after 5 years I've largely given it up because its overridden w/ both apple haters and the apparent very young, who are close-mindededly living under the assumption that their own personal use cases represent all possible use cases for all people. they are a venomous lot.
I know it can get frustrating when you see the same BS argument for the nth-teen time that derails an otherwise interesting discussion, but it's still our fault if we don't first try to use reason and civil discourse to figure out why or how they came to such an erroneous conclusion.
not when it comes from the same troll, time after time. and there is no mistaking it -- BF meets the criteria for a troll on this site.
There is no guidance or moderation on Appleinsider.
not so. i went years on MR w/o any discourse issues, but in one year on AI I've already been banned twice (once seemingly reversed on inquiry). while i dont always understand their moderation (they let racism slide, which is mind boggling, but they appear to be conservatives so perhaps not surprising), it is apparently happening.
And the funny thing is, it isn't even an argument. It's a statement of fact. You just think it is because you're not bothering to read the context, and likely don't care.
no, it's an argument, even if you dont explicitly say "this is my argument". I've read many of your posts here. you bring up reason for why things are a fail, and this is just another one of them -- your mom may forget to charge or wear it, therefore the point of it (or at least apple pay on it) is questionable. thats been your argument, even if you dont preface it formally.
I'm really a big fan of the sports version, lime green sports band. Suits my lifestyle and if I'm going to have one might as well make sure everyone sees it.
The only version that confuses me is 18k gold. Seems like gold that soft can get scratched easily. Not as soft as 24k but 14k may have been the best option.
you've likely seen it by now, but apple patented a process for making hardened gold.
Hello? Are you not paying attention? The watch does nothing without being tethered to an iPhone. The NFC chip in the watch only allows older iPhones to make payments. The iPhone is required to make the transaction with the cellular signal. The watch will never do it alone, ever. People can pay just as quickly with their iPhone. The watch will not make a transaction faster.
incorrect. it can play music wirelessly to headphones, it can do fitness tracking. we dont know yet whether it will make purchases. remember the demo of using it to unlock Star hotel doors via NFC?
Idiots wasting $349+ for a duplicate device is what many people see. The smart watch market is a dead one. I can pay with the iPhone using one hand. The watch requires two hands to pay. One to hold the watch over the reader and the other to double-press the side button. That's supposed to be faster? Idiots buying beer at a stadium will have to put their beer down to pay. They won't like that. Of course the watch battery will be dead by the evening sports game. Amazed you kool-aid drinkers haven't figured that out.
The question of "idiots" is a keen one, because you for sure do *not* know the it won't do purchases, nor that the battery will be dead by the evening -- tech crunch has testers reporting 25% left by bedtime.
Surely you're wrong and he's right. ?Watch has built-in storage for storing music which can be played via BT headphones... but you need an iPhone tethered to it for that to work. Sounds like something Apple would do. /s
PS: I'm loving the new layover data in AI's forum SW.
Amazing how you people have no idea how the watch works. The watch does nothing without an iPhone. Even Apple Pay doesn't work because the phone processes all functions, including payments. Read something other than AppleInsider and you might actually learn something.
how about you link us to an article that states what you claim as fact?
An iPhone and iPad do not require daily recharging. With daily use, my iPad lasts a week. My iPhone, half of a week. The Apple watch...can't last a full day. But Apple will gladly take a fool's money. Just wait until the Apple watch is a year old with half the charging capacity from that tiny battery. Then you'll hear people bitch and complain.
nonsense. most iPhones require daily charging. have never met anyone who gets 3.5 days per charge. what, is it sitting in a drawer somewhere?
To restate: ?Watch will have many functions independent of an iPhone being tethered and ?Pay data is stored on the NFC's secure element on ?Watch which is then send via the NFC antenna to the merchant who then sends it to your bank. The iPhone is not the processor for your payments and you don't need an internet connection to make a payment.
Those are not to be argued. Those are facts.
bingo. the secure element holds the CC token, which gets transmitted via NFC to the merchant's NFC reader. they're the ones who send it to the bank for authentication, not the iPhone. thus i bet it will work w/o an iPhone present.
Did you forget the sarcmark? Do you shower with your iPhone? What happens if you slip and fall in the shower. Not having your phone is flat out irresponsible¡
10 million would be about quadruple the existing smartphone market. Hardly a failure.
Gruber noted that ceramic and gold products have been done before. Not cheap!
[VIDEO]
no, it's an argument, even if you dont explicitly say "this is my argument". I've read many of your posts here. you bring up reason for why things are a fail, and this is just another one of them -- your mom may forget to charge or wear it, therefore the point of it (or at least apple pay on it) is questionable. thats been your argument, even if you dont preface it formally.
It's not an argument for why the ?Watch will fail, as you incorrectly assume by taking my comment out of context. It's a reason I may not buy it for her -- statement of fact: the ?Watch has at best one day battery life and must be recharged every day. And it's a reason I wouldn't buy ANY smart watch for her. Just like if it's not water-proof, I wouldn't buy the watch for myself for surfing. However, the in-context argument I was making was to Rogifan's ageist stereotype that the elderly and infirm do not use Apple products because they are too advanced or sophisticated for them. Not to mention other persons with physical impairments of other ages for whom one might consider certain functions of the ?Watch incompatible with their needs. You may read many of my posts and make all kinds of biased inferences, but clearly you haven't read all of them, like where I defended Apple's excellent work in device Accessibility, and that I expect the ?Watch to be no different.
But please, do go on to tell me what my arguments are, since you clearly are such an intuitive expert on the matter /s
nonsense. most iPhones require daily charging. have never met anyone who gets 3.5 days per charge. what, is it sitting in a drawer somewhere?
Just because you can't imagine a situation where it happens means nobody else does? I can generally get 2 full days out of my iPhone if I'm not using it much. I'll tell you where I won't be using the ?Watch, hiking and camping. At least with the iPhone, even if I don't turn off all the radios when not using it, and use it sparingly to get 4-5 days out of it, I can carry along backup battery chargers. I guess I'll need specialized backup battery chargers for my ?Watch now too? The watch was the one thing people didn't need to carry a charger for.
Oh well, I guess people are used to charging everything they use now, what's one more device they didn't used to have to charge daily? People who complain about charging one extra thing when they're already charging others are just lazy whiners and don't deserve to own Apple products. /s
60 million in the first year?
We'll see. I predict less than 10 million, making it a failure.
Unfortunately, Tim Cook has already said that he's not going to release sales figures, so we can presume it will sell poorly. Steve Jobs would have released figures.
10 million would be about quadruple the existing smartphone market. Hardly a failure.
The smartphone market is 2.5 million a year?
Apple alone sold 74 million iPhones last quarter.
So yes, less than 10 million would be a flop. As we know that this watch will not make much difference to the bottom line, it’s all about Apple's reputation. That's where the real damage is likely to be done, which bodes ill for the future, as this is the first new product of the post-Jobs era. The long-term question of whether Apple can produce another Jobs-sized hit is about to be revealed, or not, due to Cook's decision to with-hold sales figures. If he really had confidence in it, he would have broken it out as a separate category, as Jobs did for the iPhone and the iPad.
60 million in the first year?
He didn't say 60 million in the first year. Apple product sales are cyclical, so even if they sold 15 million in 3 months, you don't simply multiply that by 4 to get the annual figure.
The smartphone market is 2.5 million a year?
Apple alone sold 74 million iPhones last quarter.
So yes, less than 10 million would be a flop. As we know that this watch will not make much difference to the bottom line, it’s all about Apple's reputation. That's where the real damage is likely to be done, which bodes ill for the future, as this is the first new product of the post-Jobs era. The long-term question of whether Apple can produce another Jobs-sized hit is about to be revealed, or not, due to Cook's decision to with-hold sales figures. If he really had confidence in it, he would have broken it out as a separate category, as Jobs did for the iPhone and the iPad.
I'm not likely to buy into apple watch as I'm dead on happy with my iPhone, iPad, MBP and Air combination. However, I think apple watch will be a massive success. You sound a lot like the doomsayers when iPhone 1 launched, and when Air "1" launched, not enough battery time, too little memory and storage, no USB etc etc. As second, third and fourth gen watches emerge as part of the ecosystem my prediction is this will be a great product. What you will have as an apple customer is the ability to pick all sorts of devices to suit your own preferences and circumstance all of which are part of the one ecosystem. I don't understand why you have such a down on this yet to launch product.