I needed a retina computer that was thinner than the RMBP but could be upgraded to I7... This new lineup is really disappointing for me.
They could've easily out a retina display into the air but they decided to make a brand new line.. Zzz
So let make sure I understand your request:
Lighter than MBP
Retina display
fast, high-end Core i7 option
So that means a fan and other larger components, not to mention additional room for air flow, as well a redesign of the internals so that the air can flow in and out. I assume you will also want more ports then. OK, in a 12" design you get your wish with about a 3 hour battery. PASS.
I needed a retina computer that was thinner than the RMBP but could be upgraded to I7... This new lineup is really disappointing for me.
They could've easily out a retina display into the air but they decided to make a brand new line.. Zzz
Just wait until fall.. We'll see the gap between the Pro line and the Air line widen this fall. and continue to do so.
You can bet the fall release will bring most, if not all, of the features of the new Macbook. You can also bet it will be much thinner, using the same technology they do now..
I suspect the Macbook Pro lines will keep Thunderbolt 3 as that comes with Skylake. The Macbook Air or Macbook will possibly loose TB altogether.
So, for Prosumers with Macbook Pro's: we'll get USB-C (10Gbps) AND Thunderbolt 3 (40 Gbps) on a PCI-E 3 bus standard with up to 100 watt output. That new TB 3 standard should start to enable some serious add-on video cards chaise cases and some great docking station units, with new SATA options, etc. Things that USB in general cannot do since it's not a direct connection to the PCI bus.
I think part of the reason for USB-C was respond to oft criticized proprietary charger and cables, and if the battery lasts 10 hours, do you really need to plug it in at all times?
Not initially, but two years from purchase, probably. I replaced the battery once in my late-2008 MBP and at this point it only lasts two hours. So while, as per my other post, I do think this machine will sell really well, it would have been far better if it had two ports or separate power and USB-C.
The smallest, lightest MacBook has historically been the top selling model. At the time it was axed, the 12" PowerBook G4 was the best selling notebook in Apple's lineup.
Even at Apple's corporate headquarters, employees who have a choice overwhelmingly opt for the 11" MacBook Air as their primary computer. At their desks, they just plug into a monitor, etc., use Bluetooth keyboards, trackpads, etc.
The 12" MacBook will be even better a year from now when USB-C accessories have better availability.
That said, today, I could survive with the HDMI/USB dongle.
Agree. The 12" PowerBook was (and still is) one of my favorite form factors. I used it for close to four years. The size and portability were awesome. Apple has always been at the forefront of innovation -- first to eliminate the floppy, then the CD -- everyone complained then and afterward other manufacturers followed suit. The same will happen here -- once peripherals become widely available. I know I'll probably order one even with the slower M processor.
Then what's the point of the 13" rMBP? You make the current Airs retina and you kill rMBP sales.
I've been trying to explain this to people. This is a market correction just like the 2014 Mac Mini was. You want power, you pay for it. Pro machines for pros, consumer machines for consumers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by winstein2010
I love MagSafe, but it has faults too. Some of the charger cable and contacts developed intermittent problems over time and I had to buy new ones.
I think part of the reason for USB-C was respond to oft criticized proprietary charger and cables, and if the battery lasts 10 hours, do you really need to plug it in at all times?
The new MacBook is also meant as the new entry-level MacBook and like other people on the Internet, it is not design for today's users, but ahead of its time by 1 to 2 years. Most accessory you need are already wireless anyway, you just haven't bought them yet.
Pretty much. MagSafe prices are insane considering it's just a charger brick.
I'm sure Apple will ship a USB 3.1 display soonish that'll replicate the function of the Thunderbolt Display.
I don't know about this analysis...I don't use a laptop, but my college age son and working daughter and wife all have their own...son and daughter really never use any ports except headphones, and that's rare. Wife uses none except USB occasionally for a memory stick...and that's because she's too lazy to clean crap offer computer and doesn't use the shared drive on the network.
Can the usbc connector accept a USB stick or cable directly? If so, you wouldn't even need a breakout connector for occasional use
Even though I agree that it should have had more than one port and the machine also seems a bit underpowered from a processor standpoint, I think this machine is still going to sell incredibly well and be a big hit - in fact, I think it will do better than the Air, even though I don't consider it a machine for me. I think that there will be a tremendous number of people who look at the size, slimness, light weight and overall design and want this thing as well as those who want the latest thing and are captivated by the force touch functionality and/or the new keyboard.
I was in a store the other day and the Surface Pro 3 was going for $1500 without a keyboard. I've been working with microcomputers of all brands and OS's since 1980 and I could not always get the Surface to do what I wanted. And while the keyboard was vastly improved over earlier models, it still sucked. The new Mac seems like a bargain compared to this machine.
There will always be some who want a bigger screen, tons of ports, high capacity storage, etc. (I'm one of them). But that doesn't mean that there isn't a huge market for a machine like this one. But if Apple makes another one just like it, but with a larger display, they should definitely add at least one other port and/or separate power from the USB-C port. Obsessing over slimness and then forcing users to use a large dongle doesn't make sense to me.
1) Personally, I'd like to see the 3.5mm jack go away. USB-C is only 1.8mm in height. Create an internal hub and put one USB-C port on each side of the machine that can be used for everything, even charging from either side (or even both).
2) It's underpowered for my needs, but I'm a MBP user and I use my MBP more than any other device. But I'm not the typical user and I think we're well past the days of faster processing being a bottleneck for the average user so I have no problem suggesting the MacBook to the average user looking for a great notebook for general use.
3) A separate USB-C port just for power would be too complex. It's hard enough to get the average person to understand ports as it is.
Agree. The 12" PowerBook was (and still is) one of my favorite form factors. I used it for close to four years. The size and portability were awesome. Apple has always been at the forefront of innovation -- first to eliminate the floppy, then the CD -- everyone complained then and afterward other manufacturers followed suit. The same will happen here -- once peripherals become widely available. I know I'll probably order one even with the slower M processor.
I wish my 12" PowerBook were more useful. But it's the 867Mhz model, so it's pretty dated (not to mention 1024x768 is laughably bad today). Still a great size.
Every time Apple ditches legacy ports and peripherals, there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, but after a while, consumers come around. It's all about adaption. In any case, it's not the replacement for the Air or the MBP. It's an experiment to make the Mac more like an iPad. And I thought the Air was already pretty iPad-ish. It's nothing short of a rethink of the Ultrabook style computer: hyper-portable, cloud and wireless everything, legacy-free.
Once people actually see it up close, they will want it.
Lack of ports? Not a problem for most.
No magsafe? Magsafe was made for the era of 4-5 hrs. battery life.
Intel Core-M processor? Enough for most.
480P facetime camera? Maybe a bit disappointing but no one is going to be shooting HD video on it either.
Many look at just specs and under estimate the allure of the object. Many tend to want to overspec their machines as well.
I predict, this will sell, big time.
Look at how many iPads Apple sells and they have one port.
I see the new MacBook more as a 'concept machine' for Apple to try out new ideas/innovations that eventually make it into the MBA and MBP. My guess is that they will sell a limited number to Mac enthusiasts, but on the whole, the other laptops will sell way more units.
I can't believe these analysts get paid to guess about the future. I and my buddy are both getting the new 12". For me it's replacing a late 2008 macbook 2.4ghz unibody. I thought long and hard about whether to get the 12" or go for a 13" mbp or an Air, and decided the following:
Weight is very important factor for me as I haul it in and out of court on a regular basis
I almost never have anything plugged into my macbook
I don't need much horsepower for my laptop - that's what the desktop is for.
Getting an 11" with 8GB/256GB setup would be only $100 less, albeit with a better processor.
So it's right on the money for me. Those who need a more powerful notebook should look elsewhere. I imagine there will be lots of people who will have no idea how underpowered it is compared to the i5/i7 machines out there and will snatch them up.
So with all due respect to Mr. Kuo, I think he's completely wrong. Couldn't be more wrong. Embarrassingly wrong. They will not be able to keep these on the shelves for 3-4 months after release.
This will sell like crazy. It is spot on with what MOST laptop users want/need. No it will not satisfy those that are stuck in the past or need something specialized but for the masses it will be a hit. This line will replace the air eventually.
Every time Apple ditches legacy ports and peripherals, there's wailing and gnashing of teeth, but after a while, consumers come around. It's all about adaption. In any case, it's not the replacement for the Air or the MBP. It's an experiment to make the Mac more like an iPad. And I thought the Air was already pretty iPad-ish. It's nothing short of a rethink of the Ultrabook style computer: hyper-portable, cloud and wireless everything, legacy-free.
Seems like the Airs were getting more and more into Pro territory though and probably why Apple didn't just stick a retina screen in the current Airs. I'm really interested in the possibilities with the new trackpad. I believe Apple said there would be an API for developers. And on Apple's website it lists "pressure sensitive drawing"....hmmm could we see this 'force touch' on iPhones and iPads in the future?
The dongle is to replace docks. The problem is not HDMI, but being able to use Thunderbolt2 monitors at minimum 2k and more popular 4K now. HDMI is for TV's - cmputers operate in diffeent quality space and require some throughput.
And yes where is MagSafe? Just as reminder it was there not for funcy magnet, but to make safge tripping on power cable? So we stopped tripping now?
I could understand if USB-C was additional way for charging yet computer still had extra MagSafe, but eliminating MagSafe is step backwards regardless if dongles or chain of them are supposed to replace docks.
Obsessing over slimness and then forcing users to use a large dongle doesn't make sense to me.
The slimness is for on the go. The design is irrelevant when you are sitting at your desk where you might need a dongle. When you leave the office, you leave the dongle there too, just like a dock. The battery lasts all day. It is not like it will be on the charger all the time. The USB port will pretty much always be available in the rare instance when you need to plug in a flash drive while out and about. Seems perfect for college students.
Personally, I have the rMBP 15" and love that it has the power to do anything, but a lot of people have much simpler needs.
Sad that they weren't able to invent a USB-C connector using MagSafe. One of their absolute best inventions and it's now discarded. Too bad...
No, it's not too bad. The great thing about Apple is that they're constantly willing to discard and replace even their best technologies if it doesn't fit the specific goals of the product in question, as opposed to other companies that will will milk something decent they came up with for all its worth, in fear of getting rid of it. Clearly, the #1 priority for the Macbook was thinness, lightness, and efficiency, and an additional magsafe port would have heavily compromised that. I'm glad Apple constantly has the guts to do this stuff, inclusing the port would definitely have been "easier" and much safer from a PR perspective, but Apple has never pushed the limits of its new products and made what seems insane, standard in a few years, by playing it safe. Magsafe is also a lot less relevant now that battery life is so high. 90% of people won't even ever need to plug this during the day as long as it charges at night.
I needed a retina computer that was thinner than the RMBP but could be upgraded to I7... This new lineup is really disappointing for me.
They could've easily out a retina display into the air but they decided to make a brand new line.. Zzz
And thinner and remove almost all of the ports? The new machine looks pretty incredible, but problems: Now need expensive dongle for ports and only one port. And keyboard not all that great compared to earlier models.
The obsession with thinness continues. And the product line is getting crazy. Apple used to be about simplicity. Made it easy to make a choice. Now we have so many laptop models and overlap here and there and dozens of watch combinations with straps. Oh well.
Comments
So let make sure I understand your request:
So that means a fan and other larger components, not to mention additional room for air flow, as well a redesign of the internals so that the air can flow in and out. I assume you will also want more ports then. OK, in a 12" design you get your wish with about a 3 hour battery. PASS.
I needed a retina computer that was thinner than the RMBP but could be upgraded to I7... This new lineup is really disappointing for me.
They could've easily out a retina display into the air but they decided to make a brand new line.. Zzz
Just wait until fall.. We'll see the gap between the Pro line and the Air line widen this fall. and continue to do so.
You can bet the fall release will bring most, if not all, of the features of the new Macbook. You can also bet it will be much thinner, using the same technology they do now..
I suspect the Macbook Pro lines will keep Thunderbolt 3 as that comes with Skylake. The Macbook Air or Macbook will possibly loose TB altogether.
So, for Prosumers with Macbook Pro's: we'll get USB-C (10Gbps) AND Thunderbolt 3 (40 Gbps) on a PCI-E 3 bus standard with up to 100 watt output. That new TB 3 standard should start to enable some serious add-on video cards chaise cases and some great docking station units, with new SATA options, etc. Things that USB in general cannot do since it's not a direct connection to the PCI bus.
Once people actually see it up close, they will want it.
Lack of ports? Not a problem for most.
No magsafe? Magsafe was made for the era of 4-5 hrs. battery life.
Intel Core-M processor? Enough for most.
480P facetime camera? Maybe a bit disappointing but no one is going to be shooting HD video on it either.
Many look at just specs and under estimate the allure of the object. Many tend to want to overspec their machines as well.
I predict, this will sell, big time.
I think part of the reason for USB-C was respond to oft criticized proprietary charger and cables, and if the battery lasts 10 hours, do you really need to plug it in at all times?
Not initially, but two years from purchase, probably. I replaced the battery once in my late-2008 MBP and at this point it only lasts two hours. So while, as per my other post, I do think this machine will sell really well, it would have been far better if it had two ports or separate power and USB-C.
The smallest, lightest MacBook has historically been the top selling model. At the time it was axed, the 12" PowerBook G4 was the best selling notebook in Apple's lineup.
Even at Apple's corporate headquarters, employees who have a choice overwhelmingly opt for the 11" MacBook Air as their primary computer. At their desks, they just plug into a monitor, etc., use Bluetooth keyboards, trackpads, etc.
The 12" MacBook will be even better a year from now when USB-C accessories have better availability.
That said, today, I could survive with the HDMI/USB dongle.
Agree. The 12" PowerBook was (and still is) one of my favorite form factors. I used it for close to four years. The size and portability were awesome. Apple has always been at the forefront of innovation -- first to eliminate the floppy, then the CD -- everyone complained then and afterward other manufacturers followed suit. The same will happen here -- once peripherals become widely available. I know I'll probably order one even with the slower M processor.
Then what's the point of the 13" rMBP? You make the current Airs retina and you kill rMBP sales.
I've been trying to explain this to people. This is a market correction just like the 2014 Mac Mini was. You want power, you pay for it. Pro machines for pros, consumer machines for consumers.
I love MagSafe, but it has faults too. Some of the charger cable and contacts developed intermittent problems over time and I had to buy new ones.
I think part of the reason for USB-C was respond to oft criticized proprietary charger and cables, and if the battery lasts 10 hours, do you really need to plug it in at all times?
The new MacBook is also meant as the new entry-level MacBook and like other people on the Internet, it is not design for today's users, but ahead of its time by 1 to 2 years. Most accessory you need are already wireless anyway, you just haven't bought them yet.
Pretty much. MagSafe prices are insane considering it's just a charger brick.
I'm sure Apple will ship a USB 3.1 display soonish that'll replicate the function of the Thunderbolt Display.
Can the usbc connector accept a USB stick or cable directly? If so, you wouldn't even need a breakout connector for occasional use
1) Personally, I'd like to see the 3.5mm jack go away. USB-C is only 1.8mm in height. Create an internal hub and put one USB-C port on each side of the machine that can be used for everything, even charging from either side (or even both).
2) It's underpowered for my needs, but I'm a MBP user and I use my MBP more than any other device. But I'm not the typical user and I think we're well past the days of faster processing being a bottleneck for the average user so I have no problem suggesting the MacBook to the average user looking for a great notebook for general use.
3) A separate USB-C port just for power would be too complex. It's hard enough to get the average person to understand ports as it is.
Agree. The 12" PowerBook was (and still is) one of my favorite form factors. I used it for close to four years. The size and portability were awesome. Apple has always been at the forefront of innovation -- first to eliminate the floppy, then the CD -- everyone complained then and afterward other manufacturers followed suit. The same will happen here -- once peripherals become widely available. I know I'll probably order one even with the slower M processor.
I wish my 12" PowerBook were more useful. But it's the 867Mhz model, so it's pretty dated (not to mention 1024x768 is laughably bad today). Still a great size.
And sales were meager.
Wait, what?
Look at how many iPads Apple sells and they have one port.
I see the new MacBook more as a 'concept machine' for Apple to try out new ideas/innovations that eventually make it into the MBA and MBP. My guess is that they will sell a limited number to Mac enthusiasts, but on the whole, the other laptops will sell way more units.
I can't believe these analysts get paid to guess about the future. I and my buddy are both getting the new 12". For me it's replacing a late 2008 macbook 2.4ghz unibody. I thought long and hard about whether to get the 12" or go for a 13" mbp or an Air, and decided the following:
Weight is very important factor for me as I haul it in and out of court on a regular basis
I almost never have anything plugged into my macbook
I don't need much horsepower for my laptop - that's what the desktop is for.
Getting an 11" with 8GB/256GB setup would be only $100 less, albeit with a better processor.
So it's right on the money for me. Those who need a more powerful notebook should look elsewhere. I imagine there will be lots of people who will have no idea how underpowered it is compared to the i5/i7 machines out there and will snatch them up.
So with all due respect to Mr. Kuo, I think he's completely wrong. Couldn't be more wrong. Embarrassingly wrong. They will not be able to keep these on the shelves for 3-4 months after release.
Seems like the Airs were getting more and more into Pro territory though and probably why Apple didn't just stick a retina screen in the current Airs. I'm really interested in the possibilities with the new trackpad. I believe Apple said there would be an API for developers. And on Apple's website it lists "pressure sensitive drawing"....hmmm could we see this 'force touch' on iPhones and iPads in the future?
And yes where is MagSafe? Just as reminder it was there not for funcy magnet, but to make safge tripping on power cable? So we stopped tripping now?
I could understand if USB-C was additional way for charging yet computer still had extra MagSafe, but eliminating MagSafe is step backwards regardless if dongles or chain of them are supposed to replace docks.
Obsessing over slimness and then forcing users to use a large dongle doesn't make sense to me.
The slimness is for on the go. The design is irrelevant when you are sitting at your desk where you might need a dongle. When you leave the office, you leave the dongle there too, just like a dock. The battery lasts all day. It is not like it will be on the charger all the time. The USB port will pretty much always be available in the rare instance when you need to plug in a flash drive while out and about. Seems perfect for college students.
Personally, I have the rMBP 15" and love that it has the power to do anything, but a lot of people have much simpler needs.
Sad that they weren't able to invent a USB-C connector using MagSafe. One of their absolute best inventions and it's now discarded. Too bad...
No, it's not too bad. The great thing about Apple is that they're constantly willing to discard and replace even their best technologies if it doesn't fit the specific goals of the product in question, as opposed to other companies that will will milk something decent they came up with for all its worth, in fear of getting rid of it. Clearly, the #1 priority for the Macbook was thinness, lightness, and efficiency, and an additional magsafe port would have heavily compromised that. I'm glad Apple constantly has the guts to do this stuff, inclusing the port would definitely have been "easier" and much safer from a PR perspective, but Apple has never pushed the limits of its new products and made what seems insane, standard in a few years, by playing it safe. Magsafe is also a lot less relevant now that battery life is so high. 90% of people won't even ever need to plug this during the day as long as it charges at night.
I needed a retina computer that was thinner than the RMBP but could be upgraded to I7... This new lineup is really disappointing for me.
They could've easily out a retina display into the air but they decided to make a brand new line.. Zzz
And thinner and remove almost all of the ports? The new machine looks pretty incredible, but problems: Now need expensive dongle for ports and only one port. And keyboard not all that great compared to earlier models.
The obsession with thinness continues. And the product line is getting crazy. Apple used to be about simplicity. Made it easy to make a choice. Now we have so many laptop models and overlap here and there and dozens of watch combinations with straps. Oh well.
Shoppers get paralyzed with choice.