I just find it ironic people who supported the drawings of Mohammed after the Charlie massacre wants to remove the confederate flag from history after some terrorist murdered more innocent people.
Well Apple really needed to correct this and I glad they seemed to have done it quickly. That being said, it also helps to highlight how moronic and "knee jerk" they were originally. This is what happens when you base decisions not on sound policy but by what is the "hot button" PC issue in the media.
-kpluck
Not to pick on you, but your post will do as an example of how . . . differently you're seeing this from people who are responsible for millions of customers, shareholders or citizens of states.
The kid killed nine people under the banner of that battle flag, which has now instantly culminated its sorry history into the fascist-like symbol of a call for real race war. Responsible, mature heads of corporations decided overnight that the symbol had to go under these new calamitous circumstances. Meditate on these for a minute:
We white guys have to own this demented psychological emergency, the more we let racism get a pass within our view, the more we argue and quibble against the trivialities like what Apple's app editors do overnight under emergency telephone orders (I imagine) from Tim Cook. ("Pull everything with that damned flag and we'll sort it out as soon as we can"—or somesuch words.
That flag is now poison, if it's used to inflame. It's not poison if it's used to reveal our sorry history, or even the misguided "gallantry" of the wartime South. But as poison, you gotta take it off the shelves right away, just like you do food with salmonella. And you got to do it without saying a single word, lest you get a run on the store by all the ghoul collectors.
On a similar note because of one person's insane actions, the Joker has been removed from all Batman movies, comics, video games, and novels. In fact, the PC Police just broke down my door and ripped out all the pages from my old comic books that had the Joker. Sorry, I guess I should be a little more...serious.
Perhaps we should also remove all references to anyone with the names James (Holmes), Charles (Manson), Jeffrey (Dahmer), TJ (Lane), and naturally Dylann (Roof).
Aren't we taking things just a little too far when we're changing video games and history because of one nutcase?
Not to pick on you, but your post will do as an example of how . . . differently you're seeing this from people who are responsible for millions of customers, shareholders or citizens of states.
The kid killed nine people under the banner of that battle flag, which has now instantly culminated its sorry history into the fascist-like symbol of a call for real race war. Responsible, mature heads of corporations decided overnight that the symbol had to go under these new calamitous circumstances. Meditate on these for a minute:
...
We white guys have to own this demented psychological emergency, the more we let racism get a pass within our view, the more we argue and quibble against the trivialities like what Apple's app editors do overnight under emergency telephone orders (I imagine) from Tim Cook. ("Pull everything with that damned flag and we'll sort it out as soon as we can"—or somesuch words.
That flag is now poison, if it's used to inflame. It's not poison if it's used to reveal our sorry history, or even the misguided "gallantry" of the wartime South. But as poison, you gotta take it off the shelves right away, just like you do food with salmonella. And you got to do it without saying a single word, lest you get a run on the store by all the ghoul collectors.
We should not publish images of that piece of sh1t. He should be ignored and forgotten. And of course, sent to the chair.
I don't agree with this analysis. There has been a huge backlash against a state government flying the flag and giving the appearance of a tacit endorsement of the Confederacy and its policies. No one (well, no one reasonable) is calling for the flag to be scrubbed from history books or even to have its public display limited.
Similarly, no one is calling for Nazi or Soviet flags to be removed from games, but there would be an outcry if a state government started flying one in a place of honor.
Exactly what I have been saying. In the context of historical games or for that matter any historical setting anything from that time should be seen for what it is and be permissible. The display of such things anywhere in modern times is ridiculous and insulting to the memories of those that fought. That's not to say the poor souls caught up in the US civil war in the south necessarily wanted to be there or even understood what it was all about.
On a similar note because of one person's insane actions, the Joker has been removed from all Batman movies, comics, video games, and novels. In fact, the PC Police just broke down my door and ripped out all the pages from my old comic books that had the Joker. Sorry, I guess I should be a little more...serious. :\
Perhaps we should also remove all references to anyone with the names James (Holmes), Charles (Manson), Jeffrey (Dahmer), TJ (Lane), and naturally Dylann (Roof).
Aren't we taking things just a little too far when we're changing video games and history because of one nutcase?
No, we're starting to get just a little bit wiser about the power of symbols over the human mind, especially the emotional part of the mind. "Fascism" gets its name from the symbol of the fascii carried by Roman troops, adopted by Mussolini. Germans banned the Nazi swastika after the war, they got so wise to the power of symbols. Destructive power, that is.
History just got changed under your nose by Dylann Roof. You have to adjust your view of the flag's history, quick, because it's probably going to change again, hopefully not for the worse.
Video games are such a low level concern in comparison to those lives lost, I don't understand how anyone can get worked up over this.
We should not publish images of that piece of sh1t. He should be ignored and forgotten. And of course, sent to the chair.
What, you think he's going to be reading AI? You think he's going to inspire copycats, and these pictures are going to cause that? Then I guess you're in favor of not publishing images of the flag in a provocative way. Correct?
We'll remove all apps that display the Confederate flag, and we'll add them back IF the developers can justify its use in the app as a non-offensive, essential element.
Totally fair. Good call.
I like this approach, as well. I actually think that they should extend this policy to software updates in general. All apps automatically removed after a set number of days without any updates. That would cull a lot of garbage apps that are published simply to make a quick buck, but not backed by a committed developer. Of course, then the App Store may see an increase in trivial, artificial updates
Who decides what's offensive? Some low level software engineer at Apple? I know it's their store and they can do whatever they want with it but it seems clear even Apple employees are unsure what's offensive and what's not. How about don't touch anything and if Apple starts getting complaints from people then review that specific app.
Any policy that allows a group or single individual so much influence is nonsense. The reality is somebody somewhere will get their shorts in a bunch over things the rest of us would not bother with. It is a significant issue in this country right now, individuals can set policy with out the general approval of the populace.
No, we're starting to get just a little bit wiser about the power of symbols over the human mind, especially the emotional part of the mind. "Fascism" gets its name from the symbol of the fascii carried by Roman troops, adopted by Mussolini. Germans banned the Nazi swastika after the war, they got so wise to the power of symbols. Destructive power, that is.
To deny the truth is perhaps the greatest mistake a populace can make. Using your logic the flag of the United States should be banded in England. I'm a strong believer in the idea that trying to make things invisible just increases people's desire to associate with that which we try to hide.
You need to realize these people aren't examples of intelligent and well developed beings take the flag away and they will come up with other symbols to rally around in public. It has happened again and again throughout history. Oppression breeds the very behavior you are trying to curtail in many cases.
History just got changed under your nose by Dylann Roof. You have to adjust your view of the flag's history, quick, because it's probably going to change again, hopefully not for the worse.
Nothing has changed, the flag still represents a culture that embraced the slave trade. The question we need to ask is how do you change the culture in a positive way. Taking crap away because up you believe it is a symbol isn't going to help.
Video games are such a low level concern in comparison to those lives lost, I don't understand how anyone can get worked up over this.
This specifically is about asinine behavior on the part of a corporation. Taken to its conclusion Apple wouldn't have any software on App Store as somebody would find something to be offended by.
I'm glad you found us some random tweet by some random person to prove a claim of "liberal hypocrisy" whatever the **** that even means. Oh, and it has been retweeted a full 2x, so obviously this person is someone extremely influential and important. Amazing find Rogifan, on par with all your other "evidence-based" posts.
But one crazy person was justification to wipe the Confederate Flag from the face of the earth then?
It seems to me that you're equating a tweet that has been retweeted twice with a psychopath who killed nine people.
Is this really what you mean to suggest? If so, that is unbelievably, pathetically scummy. If not, care to explain?
We'll remove all apps that display the Confederate flag, and we'll add them back IF the developers can justify its use in the app as a non-offensive, essential element.
Totally fair. Good call.
It's justified, if over-reactionary.
I'd have to wonder how any "confederate flag" games would have wound up in the App store in the first place. I could understand the boatloads of shovelware on Google Play getting a "everything with the confederate flag getting pulled" without verification.
Games that depict the US civil war are probably justified. Anything post-civil war is certainly racist. The Dukes of Hazzard... uh... never mind the fact that that any use of it is certainly unauthorized, is probably one of the few uses that wasn't intended to be racist.
The flag pattern technically started life as the Battle Flag of Northern Virginia before being adopted as the Confederacy's second national flag, the Confederate Navy Jack and other military standards of the era. Following the South's defeat, the flag for many stood as a commemoration of fallen soldiers. In the 1940s, it was resurrected as a political call to arms against federal civil rights initiatives.
The suggestion that there was nothing wrong with the flag until segregationists started waving it in the 1940s is ridiculous. Yes, it was the Battle Flag of Northern Virginia. Yes, it part of the Confederate national flag and came to be used as military standards. So what? That excuses nothing. It has always been and will always be the flag of traitors who fought to protect the institutions of slavery and white supremacy. You don't see Germans making the argument that displaying swastikas is just a way to honor ancestors and heritage and that it's okay because the military used it and it was the national flag. Only in America do you hear such ridiculousness.
Having said that, of course the flag belongs in Civil War apps every bit as much as a swastika belongs in a WW II app.
It seems to me that you're equating a tweet that has been retweeted twice with a psychopath who killed nine people.
Is this really what you mean to suggest? If so, that is unbelievably, pathetically scummy. If not, care to explain?
Everything White Falcon has stated lately has been pretty scummy, even if he somehow doesn't realize it. A tweet is suddenly "SEE LOOK LIBERALS ARE BAD TOO" counter-argument to a mass murderer. That's what happens when ideology trumps reason, sympathy, and humanity. It's the same reason he states that Tim Cook needs to go, and pretending that any issues he has with Apple or its products is a direct result of Cook's sexuality or his advocacy, and that this is preventing Cook from "focusing on the business" even with all the evidence to the contrary. The height of bigotry. People like the White Falcon would have zero issues with Cook's tweets if they were advocating for less gun legislation, for example. But because he's saying something they don't like, they fantasize that he's harming Apple and business.
We'll remove all apps that display the Confederate flag, and we'll add them back IF the developers can justify its use in the app as a non-offensive, essential element.
Totally fair. Good call.
Actually, I'd like to know precisely which apps used the battle flag in a deliberately offensive and "mean spirited" way. I'd like a list and screenshots.
Is that because you aren't able to determine that for yourself?
We'll remove all apps that display the Confederate flag, and we'll add them back IF the developers can justify its use in the app as a non-offensive, essential element.
Totally fair. Good call.
So basically guilty until proven innocent? If that should be Apple's policy how did these end up on the app store in the first place?
Yeah, that's right, genius.
It's just like "Your App doesn't get into out store unless we say so" (i.e., your App is "guilty" until "proven innocent"). If you don't like it, STFU and go home.
WTF! Apple has modified it's policy??! Holy s**t how the hell did that happen? Who ever heard of such a thing happening before?!
I just find it ironic people who supported the drawings of Mohammed after the Charlie massacre wants to remove the confederate flag from history after some terrorist murdered more innocent people.
Wow. So you don't know what "ironic" or "history" means.
Comments
Not to pick on you, but your post will do as an example of how . . . differently you're seeing this from people who are responsible for millions of customers, shareholders or citizens of states.
The kid killed nine people under the banner of that battle flag, which has now instantly culminated its sorry history into the fascist-like symbol of a call for real race war. Responsible, mature heads of corporations decided overnight that the symbol had to go under these new calamitous circumstances. Meditate on these for a minute:
We white guys have to own this demented psychological emergency, the more we let racism get a pass within our view, the more we argue and quibble against the trivialities like what Apple's app editors do overnight under emergency telephone orders (I imagine) from Tim Cook. ("Pull everything with that damned flag and we'll sort it out as soon as we can"—or somesuch words.
That flag is now poison, if it's used to inflame. It's not poison if it's used to reveal our sorry history, or even the misguided "gallantry" of the wartime South. But as poison, you gotta take it off the shelves right away, just like you do food with salmonella. And you got to do it without saying a single word, lest you get a run on the store by all the ghoul collectors.
On a similar note because of one person's insane actions, the Joker has been removed from all Batman movies, comics, video games, and novels. In fact, the PC Police just broke down my door and ripped out all the pages from my old comic books that had the Joker. Sorry, I guess I should be a little more...serious.
Perhaps we should also remove all references to anyone with the names James (Holmes), Charles (Manson), Jeffrey (Dahmer), TJ (Lane), and naturally Dylann (Roof).
Aren't we taking things just a little too far when we're changing video games and history because of one nutcase?
But one crazy person was justification to wipe the Confederate Flag from the face of the earth then?
I believe this was somewhat like a symbolic American pogram.
We should not publish images of that piece of sh1t. He should be ignored and forgotten. And of course, sent to the chair.
Exactly what I have been saying. In the context of historical games or for that matter any historical setting anything from that time should be seen for what it is and be permissible. The display of such things anywhere in modern times is ridiculous and insulting to the memories of those that fought. That's not to say the poor souls caught up in the US civil war in the south necessarily wanted to be there or even understood what it was all about.
No, we're starting to get just a little bit wiser about the power of symbols over the human mind, especially the emotional part of the mind. "Fascism" gets its name from the symbol of the fascii carried by Roman troops, adopted by Mussolini. Germans banned the Nazi swastika after the war, they got so wise to the power of symbols. Destructive power, that is.
History just got changed under your nose by Dylann Roof. You have to adjust your view of the flag's history, quick, because it's probably going to change again, hopefully not for the worse.
Video games are such a low level concern in comparison to those lives lost, I don't understand how anyone can get worked up over this.
What, you think he's going to be reading AI? You think he's going to inspire copycats, and these pictures are going to cause that? Then I guess you're in favor of not publishing images of the flag in a provocative way. Correct?
I actually like this approach.
We'll remove all apps that display the Confederate flag, and we'll add them back IF the developers can justify its use in the app as a non-offensive, essential element.
Totally fair. Good call.
I like this approach, as well. I actually think that they should extend this policy to software updates in general. All apps automatically removed after a set number of days without any updates. That would cull a lot of garbage apps that are published simply to make a quick buck, but not backed by a committed developer. Of course, then the App Store may see an increase in trivial, artificial updates
Any policy that allows a group or single individual so much influence is nonsense. The reality is somebody somewhere will get their shorts in a bunch over things the rest of us would not bother with. It is a significant issue in this country right now, individuals can set policy with out the general approval of the populace.
You need to realize these people aren't examples of intelligent and well developed beings take the flag away and they will come up with other symbols to rally around in public. It has happened again and again throughout history. Oppression breeds the very behavior you are trying to curtail in many cases. Nothing has changed, the flag still represents a culture that embraced the slave trade. The question we need to ask is how do you change the culture in a positive way. Taking crap away because up you believe it is a symbol isn't going to help.
This specifically is about asinine behavior on the part of a corporation. Taken to its conclusion Apple wouldn't have any software on App Store as somebody would find something to be offended by.
It seems to me that you're equating a tweet that has been retweeted twice with a psychopath who killed nine people.
Is this really what you mean to suggest? If so, that is unbelievably, pathetically scummy. If not, care to explain?
Yep. Problem solved.
Ya think?
It's justified, if over-reactionary.
I'd have to wonder how any "confederate flag" games would have wound up in the App store in the first place. I could understand the boatloads of shovelware on Google Play getting a "everything with the confederate flag getting pulled" without verification.
Games that depict the US civil war are probably justified. Anything post-civil war is certainly racist. The Dukes of Hazzard... uh... never mind the fact that that any use of it is certainly unauthorized, is probably one of the few uses that wasn't intended to be racist.
The suggestion that there was nothing wrong with the flag until segregationists started waving it in the 1940s is ridiculous. Yes, it was the Battle Flag of Northern Virginia. Yes, it part of the Confederate national flag and came to be used as military standards. So what? That excuses nothing. It has always been and will always be the flag of traitors who fought to protect the institutions of slavery and white supremacy. You don't see Germans making the argument that displaying swastikas is just a way to honor ancestors and heritage and that it's okay because the military used it and it was the national flag. Only in America do you hear such ridiculousness.
Having said that, of course the flag belongs in Civil War apps every bit as much as a swastika belongs in a WW II app.
It seems to me that you're equating a tweet that has been retweeted twice with a psychopath who killed nine people.
Is this really what you mean to suggest? If so, that is unbelievably, pathetically scummy. If not, care to explain?
Everything White Falcon has stated lately has been pretty scummy, even if he somehow doesn't realize it. A tweet is suddenly "SEE LOOK LIBERALS ARE BAD TOO" counter-argument to a mass murderer. That's what happens when ideology trumps reason, sympathy, and humanity. It's the same reason he states that Tim Cook needs to go, and pretending that any issues he has with Apple or its products is a direct result of Cook's sexuality or his advocacy, and that this is preventing Cook from "focusing on the business" even with all the evidence to the contrary. The height of bigotry. People like the White Falcon would have zero issues with Cook's tweets if they were advocating for less gun legislation, for example. But because he's saying something they don't like, they fantasize that he's harming Apple and business.
I actually like this approach.
We'll remove all apps that display the Confederate flag, and we'll add them back IF the developers can justify its use in the app as a non-offensive, essential element.
Totally fair. Good call.
Actually, I'd like to know precisely which apps used the battle flag in a deliberately offensive and "mean spirited" way. I'd like a list and screenshots.
Is that because you aren't able to determine that for yourself?
I actually like this approach.
We'll remove all apps that display the Confederate flag, and we'll add them back IF the developers can justify its use in the app as a non-offensive, essential element.
Totally fair. Good call.
So basically guilty until proven innocent? If that should be Apple's policy how did these end up on the app store in the first place?
Yeah, that's right, genius.
It's just like "Your App doesn't get into out store unless we say so" (i.e., your App is "guilty" until "proven innocent"). If you don't like it, STFU and go home.
WTF! Apple has modified it's policy??! Holy s**t how the hell did that happen? Who ever heard of such a thing happening before?!
I just find it ironic people who supported the drawings of Mohammed after the Charlie massacre wants to remove the confederate flag from history after some terrorist murdered more innocent people.
Wow. So you don't know what "ironic" or "history" means.
Why am I not surprised?
The hilarious thing is all these people who are "over reacting" by calling Apple "over reactionary".
To me it makes perfect sense.
Quickly pull every App in question, and then quickly sort through them all to separate wheat from chaff. Put the good ones back up.
Done.