Microsoft makes over a billion dollars per year from HTC due to royalty payments. No reason to spoil that.
No one outside of Microsoft knows how much MS actually takes in royalties for IP "supposedly" used by Android. "Supposedly" since they won't reveal what it is unless a company commits to negotiate a license and abide by an NDA. It's all very secretive. I doubt HTC was paying anywhere near a $B in any event. They didn't sell that many devices.
It is quite well known (all you've got to do is 'google' it) that Apple paid Xerox with its pre-IPO shares for GUI.
In my world, when I pay for a piece of property, it's rightfully mine.
And that was EXACTLY the point dasanman69 was making in regard to HTC. You're in agreement.
Umm... No. Read it all over again.
He obviously read it. Now you read it. The OP was calling a HTC a copycat when we are know that there's a licensing agreement between HTC, and Apple. That's the reason why Apple hasn't sued HTC for taking design cues from Apple, nor do they get the backlash like Samsung does.
While there might be a decline in the "premium" market for Android (e.g. same price levels as an iPhone), there will of course continue to be a market for higher-end devices that are not Apple, for a number of reasons.?
Exactly, I use and very much enjoy a Blackberry Passport. It isn't a multimedia powerhouse but I'm not looking for those kind of features in a phone. I just need a communications device that does what I need it to without issues or restrictions. I feel that I'm more productive with the Passport than many of the other phones that I have tried. This doesn't mean I don't like Apple, just that I prefer something else when it comes to my mobile phone needs.
Exactly, I use and very much enjoy a Blackberry Passport. It isn't a multimedia powerhouse but I'm not looking for those kind of features in a phone. I just need a communications device that does what I need it to without issues or restrictions. I feel that I'm more productive with the Passport than many of the other phones that I have tried. This doesn't mean I don't like Apple, just that I prefer something else when it comes to my mobile phone needs.
Jef Raskin would probably disagree with you. He did have Steve, et al, go over to Xerox to convince Steve that what Apple was already working on was the direction Apple should take for the future. Apple negotiated with Xerox for a single day tour, and gave Xerox $1M in stock. Apple's UI and Xerox's UI were noticeably different. Then Raskin was asked to leave the Mac project, due to conflicts with Steve Jobs. It was Steve's vision that pushed the UI far beyond what Xerox had. Xerox was primarily the inspiration, not the model.
They didn’t buy the GUI from Xerox, they only licensed it. Apple saw what Xerox was doing, and they changed their strategy. They saw a better idea then what they were doing, and decided to use it.
Really? HP still owns the rights to the GUI? And had they done anything at all with it? Did they do anything with it subsequently? Any evidence that even planned to do anything with it?
A million dollars worth of stock in the late 1970s was not not a princely sum?
Really? HP still owns the rights to the GUI? And had they done anything at all with it? Did they do anything with it subsequently? Any evidence that even planned to do anything with it?
A million dollars worth of stock in the late 1970s was not not a princely sum?
Look, you can argue details till the cows come home. It's pointless, as what exactly happened is well-documented on the web, and that really, really isn't what this thread is about.
The only point it was even brought up was to point out that HTC has a full licensing agreement with Apple, and that if that constitutes "copying", Apple is equally guilty. Which is a lame argument to make in the face of licensing agreements. The end.
He obviously read it. Now you read it. The OP was calling a HTC a copycat when we are know that there's a licensing agreement between HTC, and Apple. That's the reason why Apple hasn't sued HTC for taking design cues from Apple, nor do they get the backlash like Samsung does.
There is a world of difference between licensing something (which, I agree, is not 'copying') and owning something, and then improving upon it. Apple simply took it all to another level, and there was nothing remotely like what Apple did until the 1990s when Windows came along.
Incidentally, what do you think Apple paid for companies and IP that led to iTunes and the iPod, without which, arguably there would have been no iPhones, iPads, Watch....?
He obviously read it. Now you read it. The OP was calling a HTC a copycat when we are know that there's a licensing agreement between HTC, and Apple. That's the reason why Apple hasn't sued HTC for taking design cues from Apple, nor do they get the backlash like Samsung does.
There is a world of difference between licensing something (which, I agree, is not 'copying') and owning something, and then improving upon it. Apple simply took it all to another level, and there was nothing remotely like what Apple did until the 1990s when Windows came along.
Incidentally, what do you think Apple paid for companies and IP that led to iTunes and the iPod, without which, arguably there would have been no iPhones, iPads, Watch....?
I have no problem with licensing things, it saves time, and precious R&D dollars. The OP made a blanket statement about not liking 'copying' even after I showed him/her that HTC hasn't copied the way Samsung has. There can't always be something original.
They can't make iPhones, and Android offers no differentiation from $1.99 phones. That leaves Windows unless they want to start making coasters instead.
They can't make iPhones, and Android offers no differentiation from $1.99 phones. That leaves Windows unless they want to start making coasters instead.
So how are they going to differentiate with Windows? There will quickly be cheap Windows phones, and we'll be repeating the same cycle.
It's
So how are they going to differentiate with Windows? There will quickly be cheap Windows phones, and we'll be repeating the same cycle.
Can't say I disagree. Windows seems only slightly less hopeless, but maybe there would be a reprieve before the Chinese get there.
The truth is that it's all hopeless for the foreseeable future. I just don't see none of the current manufacturers ever gaining any ground on Apple. We're way past the point in which a new company can come with a different strategy, or a new approach, because Apple can pivot to whatever it is they're doing before they can gain any real traction.
but, but, but, people want to buy cheaper Android phones than iPhone.
WRONG.
iPhone's moat is greater than ever. Who the hell is going to dethrone iPhone now?
Google gave up. They wasted $12 billion on Motorolla and sold them.
Microsoft gave up. They wasted $15 billion on Nokia and sold them.
Samsung gave up. Now focusing on cheaper phones and profits are down 80% from its peak.
Who the hell is left to threaten the iPhone ecosystem? You need at least $30-$50 billion just to build an ecosystem on the level of iPhone. Who the hell has the capital to pull that off? And after watching Google/MSFT/Samsung waste tens of BILLIONS in trying to dethrone Apple, who has the guts to try it?
Answer is no one.
Thank you Sog35. My sentiments exactly and what gives with those bedwetters on Wall Street who can't see this?
Much harder than it sounds, especially when your market cap is ginormous and many people expect it to go higher... Where would Apple get the backing to go private?
I thought he was talking about HTC going private... but still your point is valid. Just looked up HTC market cap, north of $49 Billion + the premium you mentioned. Not going to happen.
..."Soon" Microsoft will begin shipping their Win10 phones... Imagine, it was only 7 years late to responding to the iPhone, along with three abortive Win OSs (Win 7, Win8, and Win8.1) along the way. (Not even counting the Kin OS).
I guess that shows how hard it is to make an OS if you don't have a seat at Apple's boardroom, scribbling notes like crazy.
Perfect! I'm picturing it now -- "The Goog" sitting in the boardroom making mental notes... "Excuse me, I've got to use the bathroom" where he furiously scribbles notes. Thank you, classic.
Comments
He obviously read it. Now you read it. The OP was calling a HTC a copycat when we are know that there's a licensing agreement between HTC, and Apple. That's the reason why Apple hasn't sued HTC for taking design cues from Apple, nor do they get the backlash like Samsung does.
While there might be a decline in the "premium" market for Android (e.g. same price levels as an iPhone), there will of course continue to be a market for higher-end devices that are not Apple, for a number of reasons.?
Exactly, I use and very much enjoy a Blackberry Passport. It isn't a multimedia powerhouse but I'm not looking for those kind of features in a phone. I just need a communications device that does what I need it to without issues or restrictions. I feel that I'm more productive with the Passport than many of the other phones that I have tried. This doesn't mean I don't like Apple, just that I prefer something else when it comes to my mobile phone needs.
Oh... YOU'RE the guy that bought one.
Jef Raskin would probably disagree with you. He did have Steve, et al, go over to Xerox to convince Steve that what Apple was already working on was the direction Apple should take for the future. Apple negotiated with Xerox for a single day tour, and gave Xerox $1M in stock. Apple's UI and Xerox's UI were noticeably different. Then Raskin was asked to leave the Mac project, due to conflicts with Steve Jobs. It was Steve's vision that pushed the UI far beyond what Xerox had. Xerox was primarily the inspiration, not the model.
Oh... YOU'RE The guy that bought one.
Girl and yes, it's a really good phone.
Really? HP still owns the rights to the GUI? And had they done anything at all with it? Did they do anything with it subsequently? Any evidence that even planned to do anything with it?
A million dollars worth of stock in the late 1970s was not not a princely sum?
Look, you can argue details till the cows come home. It's pointless, as what exactly happened is well-documented on the web, and that really, really isn't what this thread is about.
The only point it was even brought up was to point out that HTC has a full licensing agreement with Apple, and that if that constitutes "copying", Apple is equally guilty. Which is a lame argument to make in the face of licensing agreements. The end.
There is a world of difference between licensing something (which, I agree, is not 'copying') and owning something, and then improving upon it. Apple simply took it all to another level, and there was nothing remotely like what Apple did until the 1990s when Windows came along.
Incidentally, what do you think Apple paid for companies and IP that led to iTunes and the iPod, without which, arguably there would have been no iPhones, iPads, Watch....?
I have no problem with licensing things, it saves time, and precious R&D dollars. The OP made a blanket statement about not liking 'copying' even after I showed him/her that HTC hasn't copied the way Samsung has. There can't always be something original.
They can't make iPhones, and Android offers no differentiation from $1.99 phones. That leaves Windows unless they want to start making coasters instead.
So how are they going to differentiate with Windows? There will quickly be cheap Windows phones, and we'll be repeating the same cycle.
Can't say I disagree. Windows seems only slightly less hopeless, but maybe there would be a reprieve before the Chinese get there.
The truth is that it's all hopeless for the foreseeable future. I just don't see none of the current manufacturers ever gaining any ground on Apple. We're way past the point in which a new company can come with a different strategy, or a new approach, because Apple can pivot to whatever it is they're doing before they can gain any real traction.
In effect, this means that investors do not believe HTC has any intrinsic value as a going concern.
No.
It just means that investors do not believe that other investors believe the share price is to low.
Thank you Sog35. My sentiments exactly and what gives with those bedwetters on Wall Street who can't see this?
Much harder than it sounds, especially when your market cap is ginormous and many people expect it to go higher... Where would Apple get the backing to go private?
I thought he was talking about HTC going private... but still your point is valid. Just looked up HTC market cap, north of $49 Billion + the premium you mentioned. Not going to happen.
..."Soon" Microsoft will begin shipping their Win10 phones... Imagine, it was only 7 years late to responding to the iPhone, along with three abortive Win OSs (Win 7, Win8, and Win8.1) along the way. (Not even counting the Kin OS).
I guess that shows how hard it is to make an OS if you don't have a seat at Apple's boardroom, scribbling notes like crazy.
Perfect! I'm picturing it now -- "The Goog" sitting in the boardroom making mental notes... "Excuse me, I've got to use the bathroom" where he furiously scribbles notes. Thank you, classic.