Let's see how the market reacts before passing judgement. I'd also wait until release 3 of any Microsoft product before taking the plunge. For me the non-starter is that it's still Windows (ISW) and I'd never purchase a Windows device using my own money. Life is too short to be tortured by Windows on your own time.
A Mac tablet not for heavy work, but as the ultimate Keynote and PowerPoint presentation tool. Make presentations in Mac desktop and move them to the Mac tablet (400 to 600 g instead of 1 or 2 kg!) via USB pendrive (cloud? No, thanks!). Carry the Mac tablet to the presentation room. Because iOS is not fully compatible with Mac.
There's no need to have compatible OS — all that's needed is compatible file formats! Sheesh!!!
NEWS FLASH: Both the Mac and the iDevices have PowerPoint and Keynote apps. (along with all the other important file formats).
I have no problems moving documents back and forth.
Let's see how the market reacts before passing judgement. I'd also wait until release 3 of any Microsoft product before taking the plunge. For me the non-starter is that it's still Windows (ISW) and I'd never purchase a Windows device using my own money. Life is too short to be tortured by Windows on your own time.
I don't understand why people are so closed to other options only because it's from MS. The Surface Pro is a great device and Windows 10 works very nice with it. Why it's bad to see how a company like MS make great products, which sometimes are better than Apple offerings?
A laptop that magically transforms into a mediocre tablet with less power and a wonky connection mechanism?
No thanks.
This isn't actually new. It's just ballmers original Surgace Pro pitch. But now with a more sturdy keyboard that can also help out the performance a bit.
It's not catching up. It's running forward with a compromised design.
Apple is good at laser focus, making the best device for its purpose. They've mastered that.
Microsoft is great at making "good enough" stuff that tries to do many things while mastering none of them.
What do you call the Macbook? Isn't that a compromised notebook? Same as the iPad Pro with it's keyboard, which is similar (or worst) than the "compromised" Surface Pro. Looks like Apple is the one doing "good enough" with some of their products.
At any rate, this thread is about the Surface Book, which is not a real laptop, even though it runs Windows 10. It's apps need to be converted to "universal", and it doesn't even fully close... and you think Apple's laptops are "crippled"??!!!!
Based in the MS keynote, the Surface Book looked like a full notebook. Why do you think it isn't a real laptop?
iOS is a touch-aware device and iOS apps fit that device.
Apple can't make an OSX tablet, and suddenly all the apps are touch-aware. That's exactly what MS has going on... very few Windows apps are touch-aware.
The beauty of Apple's two OS's is one is optimized for a touch-based UI and one is optimized for a mouse-based UI.
OS X works very well with both touch and pen input, always has.
Turning my car into a Frankenstein truck by docking it with a truck bed is not on my wish list. I'm sure people making incremental upgrades to cars will be slammed for not seizing on such a stupid idea.
You don't have to turn your car in a Frankenstein truck. Just look at the Porsche Macan Turbo / Cayenne Turbo, Mercedes-Benz G63 / ML63 AMG and Range Rover Sport. They aren't the best off road vehicles, neither the best sport cars. Still they are great cars (or Sport SUV's).
Maybe the Surface Pro isn't the best tablet, neither the best notebook, still it's a great device. IMO, the Surface Pro is the best 2 in 1 device, something iPads and MacBooks fail to do, but that doesn't make them bad devices.
And based in the feedback from users, looks like MS have a device that could be useful to a lot people and business. Too bad Apple isn't even trying of doing something similar (IMO, the iPad Pro doesn't count).
WHAAT? That ugly thing sold out? Holly crap! So how many, is sold out for them? 100? 1000? 10000? 1000000? Number people, numbers please! I need numbers!
iOS is a touch-aware device and iOS apps fit that device.
Apple can't make an OSX tablet, and suddenly all the apps are touch-aware. That's exactly what MS has going on... very few Windows apps are touch-aware.
The beauty of Apple's two OS's is one is optimized for a touch-based UI and one is optimized for a mouse-based UI.
Several monitor manufacturers make large multitouch displays for interactive signage and industrial applications. I'm sure many of the companies using those displays would rather run them on Macs instead of depending on Windows. Since these monitors take advantage of the multitouch input support built into Windows, the manufacturers are not going to be bothered to make Mac drivers, nor should they be expected to. Having Apple provide native support for external multitouch displays makes more sense than asking them to sell a 40 inch iPad.
Based in the MS keynote, the Surface Book looked like a full notebook. Why do you think it isn't a real laptop?
Imo it's just another tablet with a keyboard. Is it good for what it is? I don't know and won't comment on that but the Surface Book looks....odd to me.
A "real laptop" to me looks like the MBA, MBP and a few other Windows offerings.
What about a device that excels as a 2 in 1 device, like the SP3? Why it cannot exist?
Because the SP3 does not excel at anything? It is a laptop with less ergonomics than a netbook, a tablet without apps and a tablet OS, and a soso digitizer (with pretty much one app, OneNote, properly supporting it). And you could actually get three, still mediocre but better, individual devices at the same or lower cost. We have 5 SP3s "on loan" (which is a lie, because we received these for testing without ever asking for them). I can't get anybody to test them, they come back like effing boomerangs. (To be fair, there might be one class of people having some need for those, students, but we do not have any.)
Imo it's just another tablet with a keyboard. Is it good for what it is? I don't know and won't comment on that but the Surface Book looks....odd to me.
A "real laptop" to me looks like the MBA, MBP and a few other Windows offerings.
EVERYONE thought it was a real notebook until Panos Panay effectively "dropped the mic" and revealed that it was also a tablet. Now you're trying to say that it's just a tablet? Funny how that works :smokey:
THE LAUGHABLE THING IS ANY IDEA THAT IT COMPETES WITH THE MBP. You may get away with comparing the base 13 inches now, but not when the MBP also updates to Skylake.
Why would it not compete with a Skylake 13" MBP?
The 13" MBP still won't have a dGPU like the Surface Book (modified GTX 960m? + 1 GB GDDR5).
A Skylake MBP 13" would most likely be using an i7-6567U (Iris Graphics 550).
[QUOTE name="Macky the Macky" url="/t/189432/microsoft-sells-out-of-surface-book-launch-stock-updates-ios-health-app-for-band-2#post_2791288"] As far as more RAM is concerned. If you're gonna edit 4K video, you should by a MBP anyway. For most laptop computer use, the RAM requirement is not high... why impact battery life when there's another laptop for high RAM and high GPU applications.[/QUOTE]
Which laptop is considered the higher end model, the MacBook or the Air? On one hand, the MacBook has standard 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD and Retina display, but only a Core M CPU. On the other hand, the Air has the faster i5 CPU but only 4 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD and a TN display. Regarding Retina, I would consider viewing angle and color accuracy to be more important than super high resolution if you are going to be looking at the screen all day - so even a standard resolution IPS panel would be better than what the Air has now. At this point, discontinuing the Air would make more sense than trying to justify its subpar memory and screen compared to Apple's both low end and high end laptops.
Because the SP3 does not excel at anything? It is a laptop with less ergonomics than a netbook, a tablet without apps and a tablet OS, and a soso digitizer (with pretty much one app, OneNote, properly supporting it). And you could actually get three, still mediocre but better, individual devices at the same or lower cost.
The SP3 excels as an 2 in 1 device, plus you can use the docking station to use it on your desktop with two Full HD monitors or a single 4k monitor. I don't see how that is a bad thing. I'm looking forward to the SP4 and compare it to my MBA.
BTW, a part from OneNote, there are other applications supporting the Pen, like Adobe CC.
We have 5 SP3s "on loan" (which is a lie, because we received these for testing without ever asking for them). I can't get anybody to test them, they come back like effing boomerangs. (To be fair, there might be one class of people having some need for those, students, but we do not have any.)
What would happen if my users return their iPads because they are limited for their work? Would that make them bad devices? I don't think so. Same as the Surface Pro. It won't match every one needs (same as notebooks or tablets), but still it's a great device for people who needs a 2 in 1 device.
EVERYONE thought it was a real notebook until Panos Panay effectively "dropped the mic" and revealed that it was also a tablet. Now you're trying to say that it's just a tablet? Funny how that works :smokey:
I never saw the keynote so I can't comment on that part but I will say this: If you can remove the screen from the keyboard, it's not a laptop.
I just looked at Microsoft Surface Book more carefully.
Is that gap for real when the device is closed? How durable is that accordion hinge? I am sure people are going to try to push down on make it close tightly. I see it as bad design.
The SP3 excels as an 2 in 1 device, plus you can use the docking station to use it on your desktop with two Full HD monitors or a single 4k monitor. I don't see how that is a bad thing. I'm looking forward to the SP4 and compare it to my MBA.
I recently got a Surface 3 w/ LTE to have a little Win 10 machine and I am surprised how much I like it especially the KickStand.
I'm looking forward to getting a Surface Pro 4 (with pen and keyboard) next year in large part because it because it can run an i5 or i7 chip while staying under two pounds, less than the MacBook which is apple's lightest laptop. I've had a Mac Laptop and iMac because I could use them with my Windows 7 work, but I think that I (like lots of programmers) this coming year will be switching to Microsoft hardware.
Comments
Why?
Why not?
Let's see how the market reacts before passing judgement. I'd also wait until release 3 of any Microsoft product before taking the plunge. For me the non-starter is that it's still Windows (ISW) and I'd never purchase a Windows device using my own money. Life is too short to be tortured by Windows on your own time.
There's no need to have compatible OS — all that's needed is compatible file formats! Sheesh!!!
NEWS FLASH: Both the Mac and the iDevices have PowerPoint and Keynote apps. (along with all the other important file formats).
I have no problems moving documents back and forth.
Word to the wise: if you need a laptop, buy one that excels at being a laptop. If you need a tablet, buy one that excels at being a tablet.
What about a device that excels as a 2 in 1 device, like the SP3? Why it cannot exist?
Let's see how the market reacts before passing judgement. I'd also wait until release 3 of any Microsoft product before taking the plunge. For me the non-starter is that it's still Windows (ISW) and I'd never purchase a Windows device using my own money. Life is too short to be tortured by Windows on your own time.
I don't understand why people are so closed to other options only because it's from MS. The Surface Pro is a great device and Windows 10 works very nice with it. Why it's bad to see how a company like MS make great products, which sometimes are better than Apple offerings?
A laptop that magically transforms into a mediocre tablet with less power and a wonky connection mechanism?
No thanks.
This isn't actually new. It's just ballmers original Surgace Pro pitch. But now with a more sturdy keyboard that can also help out the performance a bit.
It's not catching up. It's running forward with a compromised design.
Apple is good at laser focus, making the best device for its purpose. They've mastered that.
Microsoft is great at making "good enough" stuff that tries to do many things while mastering none of them.
What do you call the Macbook? Isn't that a compromised notebook? Same as the iPad Pro with it's keyboard, which is similar (or worst) than the "compromised" Surface Pro. Looks like Apple is the one doing "good enough" with some of their products.
At any rate, this thread is about the Surface Book, which is not a real laptop, even though it runs Windows 10. It's apps need to be converted to "universal", and it doesn't even fully close... and you think Apple's laptops are "crippled"??!!!!
Based in the MS keynote, the Surface Book looked like a full notebook. Why do you think it isn't a real laptop?
OS X works very well with both touch and pen input, always has.
Turning my car into a Frankenstein truck by docking it with a truck bed is not on my wish list. I'm sure people making incremental upgrades to cars will be slammed for not seizing on such a stupid idea.
You don't have to turn your car in a Frankenstein truck. Just look at the Porsche Macan Turbo / Cayenne Turbo, Mercedes-Benz G63 / ML63 AMG and Range Rover Sport. They aren't the best off road vehicles, neither the best sport cars. Still they are great cars (or Sport SUV's).
Maybe the Surface Pro isn't the best tablet, neither the best notebook, still it's a great device. IMO, the Surface Pro is the best 2 in 1 device, something iPads and MacBooks fail to do, but that doesn't make them bad devices.
And based in the feedback from users, looks like MS have a device that could be useful to a lot people and business. Too bad Apple isn't even trying of doing something similar (IMO, the iPad Pro doesn't count).
So how many, is sold out for them? 100? 1000?
10000? 1000000? Number people, numbers please!
I need numbers!
Several monitor manufacturers make large multitouch displays for interactive signage and industrial applications. I'm sure many of the companies using those displays would rather run them on Macs instead of depending on Windows. Since these monitors take advantage of the multitouch input support built into Windows, the manufacturers are not going to be bothered to make Mac drivers, nor should they be expected to. Having Apple provide native support for external multitouch displays makes more sense than asking them to sell a 40 inch iPad.
Based in the MS keynote, the Surface Book looked like a full notebook. Why do you think it isn't a real laptop?
Imo it's just another tablet with a keyboard. Is it good for what it is? I don't know and won't comment on that but the Surface Book looks....odd to me.
A "real laptop" to me looks like the MBA, MBP and a few other Windows offerings.
What about a device that excels as a 2 in 1 device, like the SP3? Why it cannot exist?
Because the SP3 does not excel at anything? It is a laptop with less ergonomics than a netbook, a tablet without apps and a tablet OS, and a soso digitizer (with pretty much one app, OneNote, properly supporting it). And you could actually get three, still mediocre but better, individual devices at the same or lower cost. We have 5 SP3s "on loan" (which is a lie, because we received these for testing without ever asking for them). I can't get anybody to test them, they come back like effing boomerangs. (To be fair, there might be one class of people having some need for those, students, but we do not have any.)
EVERYONE thought it was a real notebook until Panos Panay effectively "dropped the mic" and revealed that it was also a tablet. Now you're trying to say that it's just a tablet? Funny how that works :smokey:
THE LAUGHABLE THING IS ANY IDEA THAT IT COMPETES WITH THE MBP. You may get away with comparing the base 13 inches now, but not when the MBP also updates to Skylake.
Why would it not compete with a Skylake 13" MBP?
The 13" MBP still won't have a dGPU like the Surface Book (modified GTX 960m? + 1 GB GDDR5).
A Skylake MBP 13" would most likely be using an i7-6567U (Iris Graphics 550).
As far as more RAM is concerned. If you're gonna edit 4K video, you should by a MBP anyway. For most laptop computer use, the RAM requirement is not high... why impact battery life when there's another laptop for high RAM and high GPU applications.[/QUOTE]
Which laptop is considered the higher end model, the MacBook or the Air? On one hand, the MacBook has standard 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD and Retina display, but only a Core M CPU. On the other hand, the Air has the faster i5 CPU but only 4 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD and a TN display. Regarding Retina, I would consider viewing angle and color accuracy to be more important than super high resolution if you are going to be looking at the screen all day - so even a standard resolution IPS panel would be better than what the Air has now. At this point, discontinuing the Air would make more sense than trying to justify its subpar memory and screen compared to Apple's both low end and high end laptops.
Because the SP3 does not excel at anything? It is a laptop with less ergonomics than a netbook, a tablet without apps and a tablet OS, and a soso digitizer (with pretty much one app, OneNote, properly supporting it). And you could actually get three, still mediocre but better, individual devices at the same or lower cost.
The SP3 excels as an 2 in 1 device, plus you can use the docking station to use it on your desktop with two Full HD monitors or a single 4k monitor. I don't see how that is a bad thing. I'm looking forward to the SP4 and compare it to my MBA.
BTW, a part from OneNote, there are other applications supporting the Pen, like Adobe CC.
http://blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/creative-cloud-and-microsoft-surface-pro-3/
What would happen if my users return their iPads because they are limited for their work? Would that make them bad devices? I don't think so. Same as the Surface Pro. It won't match every one needs (same as notebooks or tablets), but still it's a great device for people who needs a 2 in 1 device.
It's a tablet with a keyboard.
I just looked at Microsoft Surface Book more carefully.
Is that gap for real when the device is closed? How durable is that accordion hinge? I am sure people are going to try to push down on make it close tightly. I see it as bad design.
The SP3 excels as an 2 in 1 device, plus you can use the docking station to use it on your desktop with two Full HD monitors or a single 4k monitor. I don't see how that is a bad thing. I'm looking forward to the SP4 and compare it to my MBA.
I recently got a Surface 3 w/ LTE to have a little Win 10 machine and I am surprised how much I like it especially the KickStand.
I'm looking forward to getting a Surface Pro 4 (with pen and keyboard) next year in large part because it because it can run an i5 or i7 chip while staying under two pounds, less than the MacBook which is apple's lightest laptop. I've had a Mac Laptop and iMac because I could use them with my Windows 7 work, but I think that I (like lots of programmers) this coming year will be switching to Microsoft hardware.