I just looked at Microsoft Surface Book more carefully.
Is that gap for real when the device is closed? How durable is that accordion hinge? I am sure people are going to try to push down on make it close tightly. I see it as bad design.
I don't mind the gap, unless I am in London taking the Tube.
In fact that gap looks like it will remove the years-old problem that many laptops suffer where the keyboard makes an imprint on the screen from being closed. Once its closed, I can't imagine any sane person trying to force it to close more to get the gap to not exist. You close it, put it in your bag and never see the gap - or the keyboard imprint on your screen.
As to the durability of the hinge, screen locking mechanism and overall build quality remains to be seen. Might be a a great product, so far the 10 minute hands on reviews are mostly positive about the build quality. I will wait for some long term reviews, it's a little pricey for me to jump in on a 1.0 product.
EVERYONE thought it was a real notebook until Panos Panay effectively "dropped the mic" and revealed that it was also a tablet. Now you're trying to say that it's just a tablet? Funny how that works
I never saw the keynote so I can't comment on that part but I will say this: If you can remove the screen from the keyboard, it's not a laptop.
It's a tablet with a keyboard.
I am not trying to be a dick, commenting on the internet can be easily taken the wrong way so please don't think I am being a dick.
You should watch the keynote.
I like watching the various keynotes from all of the different companies. This one was possibly the best Microsoft keynote I have yet seen. It had decent pacing, the products looked decent and I thought Panos Panay had a pretty good and funny delivery.
So if you are in keynotes, I say watch it. I wouldn't recommend it if it sucked, but it didn't. It was pretty good. With the exception of the Hololens demo, every time they demo that it just seems like a lie and they won't be able to deliver. Time will tell.
Some of them are really good, like Excel and some versions of Visual Studio, some are pretty good like Visio and OneNote, but others are pure torture like Skype, Outlook, Word, and Windows OS itself.
I can say the same for Apple software, which sometimes are very good, like OS X (even though the latest releases have their issues), while others are awful, like iWorks, Photos as a replacement for Aperture and Mac Mail. Clearly Apple have their list of bad applications and products too. But I don't see why is that a reason that I should never buy something from them.
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I'm happy to see Microsoft become relevant again. But they are only becoming relevant by eating the market share of their partners in product categories that are decades old pasture dwellers.
When was MS irrelevant? They have been for years the largest software company in the world and their enterprise business have been very successful.
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Let's see Microsoft put all those great minds that it's hoarding back to work on inventing and innovating new product categories and creating new markets. They have the right stuff and don't have to follow in Apple's wake.
MS doesn't needs to follow Apple to succeed. They have been making great devices and services in the last 3-5 years, and a lot of them are completely different from what Apple is doing. For example, Azure, Office 365, Xbox / Xbox Live and the long list of server and enterprise software are markets where Apple is absent or far behind. And now they have the Surface 2 in 1 devices, a market that Apple decided to ignore. IMO, those "great minds" you mentioned are inventing and innovating like never before.
that's not a good reason for releasing a product. that's how you get crap.
no, if you can't answer why the market needs an OS X tablet, then there won't be one.
I'm not saying that OS X as it is should be used in a tablet device, neither iOS in a desktop/notebook. But it would be nice if Apple creates a UI that adapts when it's used in a tablet or desktop mode, like Windows 10 does.
Well that's an unfair assessment as there are many, many, many different models Windows laptops. Cheap ones, middle range, high end, etc. None of which are all built equally so you can't simply say, Windows laptops arent as premium as MacBooks. It's also easy to find a Windows Laptop with impeccable built quality that will last. In fact all of my longest lasting laptops have all been Windows laptop. The Surface line is also a really well built machine and will easily last a decade if not abused.
the only Windows laptops I'm familiar with are dells and hps, and they are crummy. can you link to some of these premium Windows notebooks that are as high quality was MacBook pros?
I want to get my hands on the MSI GT72S Dominator Pro G. I am also a sucker for 17" laptops.
It's $3100 but comes with some very seriously killer performance including a desktop (not mobile) GTX 980. It's thick and it's heavy, but will fully replace a desktop and have some serious gaming performance. It has every single port under the sun. It even has a blu-ray burner. Compare it to fully loaded MBP which comes in at $3200. Both the core i7 and GPU are unlocked if you want to tinker with it.
The MBP has a smaller screen and 16 gigs less ram, which is also slower ram. The MBP has a TB of flash storage while the MSI has 2x128 flash in raid zero plus a TB drive. The MBP is sleeker, lighter, better battery life and likely has better overall build quality over MSI. The MSI has all of the ports, screen size, the blu-ray burner and seriously incredible performance.
Yes, it does as a 2 in 1 device. Great screen and stylus support, very good battery life and weight, excellent performance and an OS that adapts when it's being use as a tablet or PC/notebook. IMO, that's the description of a very good 2 in 1 device.
the only Windows laptops I'm familiar with are dells and hps, and they are crummy. can you link to some of these premium Windows notebooks that are as high quality was MacBook pros?
Lenovo Thinkpads have been an standard in enterprises for their quality, same as HP Elitebooks and Dell Latitudes.
Can't wait to see what numbers they announced. If no numbers are announced, can't wait for the "Surface Book is a failure" articles although I doubt that will happen.
Style is subjective. If you don't like it, you don't like it, but it is not there on a whim.
The hinge is designed the way it is to dynamically move the fulcrum in a way that effectively makes the keyboard/base unit longer when you open it. This moves the center of gravity in such a way that it improves the balance of the open device. This allows you to have a balanced device when closed, yet have a device that does not tip over easily when open. All without adding more weight to the keyboard.
The gap also keeps the keys from rubbing on the screen without the need for ridges or bumpers that would distract from the look of the device when open.
A Mac tablet not for heavy work, but as the ultimate Keynote and PowerPoint presentation tool. Make presentations in Mac desktop and move them to the Mac tablet (400 to 600 g instead of 1 or 2 kg!) via USB pendrive (cloud? No, thanks!). Carry the Mac tablet to the presentation room. Because iOS is not fully compatible with Mac.
Both Powerpoint and Keynote are available for the iPad. Why on earth carry around a USB pendrive?
I am not trying to be a dick, commenting on the internet can be easily taken the wrong way so please don't think I am being a dick.
You should watch the keynote.
I like watching the various keynotes from all of the different companies. This one was possibly the best Microsoft keynote I have yet seen. It had decent pacing, the products looked decent and I thought Panos Panay had a pretty good and funny delivery.
So if you are in keynotes, I say watch it. I wouldn't recommend it if it sucked, but it didn't. It was pretty good. With the exception of the Hololens demo, every time they demo that it just seems like a lie and they won't be able to deliver. Time will tell.
I think you inadvertently just disclosed the real problem with these Surface things: that it is not clear what the purpose of these devices is. If we can't even agree on whether they represent a laptop, a hybrid, a tablet or a failed attempt at any of these, and if I have to sit through a keynote to get an understanding of 'how well they work', then there's something wrong with the product.
Apple gets it. And I have never watched any Apple keynote.
I don't mind the gap, unless I am in London taking the Tube.
In fact that gap looks like it will remove the years-old problem that many laptops suffer where the keyboard makes an imprint on the screen from being closed. Once its closed, I can't imagine any sane person trying to force it to close more to get the gap to not exist. You close it, put it in your bag and never see the gap - or the keyboard imprint on your screen.
As to the durability of the hinge, screen locking mechanism and overall build quality remains to be seen. Might be a a great product, so far the 10 minute hands on reviews are mostly positive about the build quality. I will wait for some long term reviews, it's a little pricey for me to jump in on a 1.0 product.
Keyboard imprint, Really? I guess you must have not seen or used MacBooks. They have the sunken surface where keyboard is removing the issue of those imprint. Also, with the gap, when it is put in the bag, there are chances of loose pens and pencil or other crap sliding inside and possibly cause damage to the screen - Especially when there is only standing room in the Tube and you keep sliding your laptop bag. Finally, I think the product is expensive, considering that it is PC after all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35
that gap is absolutely horrible.
Its a joke that the tech media was all up in arms about the iPhone6 camera bump yet say nothing about this monstrosity.
Finally, someone who does agree with me ;-) Yep! Media sure had a big issue with that camera bump, when there were many other phones out there with similar bumps in the bag. Not only tech media, but all media are always trying to be overly critical.
let's me honest. I grew my professional carrier with Intel based windows hardware design for PCs and laptops. But, somehow hardware build quality for Windows laptop is subpar quality compare with Apple's Mabook. I am not going to be judgmental about build quality of Microsoft surface book and time will tell but based on past experiences of millions of windows laptop uses, most of windows laptop are like many android phones. Cheap but don't last long so avoid in first place before joining millions of frustrated users. Media supported new design so people are buying but media not going to pay for repair after warranty will expire.
You could always get good quality laptops - Lenovo, HP and others always had some available. They were (until recently) lacking Apple aesthetics, but they were well built and reliable, some of them conforming various military specs.
However, endless sea of cheap, plastic machines - even if they are not made by Microsoft - are watering down consumers' perception of Windows machines. It is quite normal, I'd say, and works in every sphere - as in car industry, where Toyota will not make expensive car (under that brand) because all the cheap, good-value-for-the-money but still brand diluting little Toyotas that are flooding streets... thus we have Lexus, or Infinity, or Acura.
The way I see it, Surface is that kind of re-branding. Not that Microsoft will complain if Surfaces sell well - but I think they will be perfectly content if it just helps them achieve better brand recognition - and I think it is. A few years back, most our customers would think cheap USB mice and keyboards if anyone mentions Microsoft hardware. Today already, they think well executed convertible computing devices. In the future, more and more people will rather associate Surfaces than cheap Acers to "Windows machine" and this can - and will - help both Microsoft and Windows brand. Rather than letting consumers associate cheap Acer (and likes) with Windows and, indirectly, to Microsoft themselves, they are fiddling with consumers' mind-state to start associating quality build, expensive, premium Surface devices not only to Microsoft, but also to Windows as a platform and PC as a category.
I think they are doing this quite smartly. Even if Surfaces never grow to be real sales success for MS, they will do good one way or the other.
I think you inadvertently just disclosed the real problem with these Surface things: that it is not clear what the purpose of these devices is. If we can't even agree on whether they represent a laptop, a hybrid, a tablet or a failed attempt at any of these, and if I have to sit through a keynote to get an understanding of 'how well they work', then there's something wrong with the product.
Apple gets it. And I have never watched any Apple keynote.
It is quite clear what device is, and it has proven to do so quite well in real life.
It is convertible, more universal form of computer device. Put it on docking station at your desk, with desktop monitors, keyboard and mouse attached - it has more than enough power for majority of office tasks to replace successfully standard business desktop or laptop. We have a few among our staff and more than a few among our customers, no one so far has complained about performance or any other limitations... and even with dock, it takes less space on the desk than standard laptop or desktop machine.
Take it off the dock with type cover attached and carry it to meetings as very portable laptop. It does sound clumsy compared to laptop, but kickstand becomes second nature quickly and type cover keyboard is providing solid typing experience - better than many real laptops I have experienced. And you can remove keyboard and keep Surface in your hand during PowerPoint presentation easier than laptop, while controlling presentation over touch screen.
Take it home, stretch on sofa, remove keyboard and use it for casual browsing or media. Yes it is bigger and heavier than iPad and average Android tablet, but it also has more real estate than most... and with kickstand, you can find perfect position for it without need to hold it in your hand, or to position your body so that it supports tablet at good angle. You can create any angle with stand, rather than using your whole body to achieve this. I often keep mine (while in bed or stretching on sofa) on my belly with both my hands free - so I an hold a drink in one hand and manipulate tablet with the other.
And when I travel, I use Lightroom and Photoshop to play with my photos, keep in touch with my work (if I have to), in addition to all the usual vacation uses. It does replace laptop, tablet and ereader if I really feel like carrying only one device.
Different folks, different needs, of course. It works great for me. I'm yet to hear complain from any of our customers or staff members who are using them - so I believe it will do well for many in general. For those where it doesn't, luckily there are many other options.
Comments
I just looked at Microsoft Surface Book more carefully.
Is that gap for real when the device is closed? How durable is that accordion hinge? I am sure people are going to try to push down on make it close tightly. I see it as bad design.
I don't mind the gap, unless I am in London taking the Tube.
In fact that gap looks like it will remove the years-old problem that many laptops suffer where the keyboard makes an imprint on the screen from being closed. Once its closed, I can't imagine any sane person trying to force it to close more to get the gap to not exist. You close it, put it in your bag and never see the gap - or the keyboard imprint on your screen.
As to the durability of the hinge, screen locking mechanism and overall build quality remains to be seen. Might be a a great product, so far the 10 minute hands on reviews are mostly positive about the build quality. I will wait for some long term reviews, it's a little pricey for me to jump in on a 1.0 product.
EVERYONE thought it was a real notebook until Panos Panay effectively "dropped the mic" and revealed that it was also a tablet. Now you're trying to say that it's just a tablet? Funny how that works
I never saw the keynote so I can't comment on that part but I will say this: If you can remove the screen from the keyboard, it's not a laptop.
It's a tablet with a keyboard.
I am not trying to be a dick, commenting on the internet can be easily taken the wrong way so please don't think I am being a dick.
You should watch the keynote.
I like watching the various keynotes from all of the different companies. This one was possibly the best Microsoft keynote I have yet seen. It had decent pacing, the products looked decent and I thought Panos Panay had a pretty good and funny delivery.
So if you are in keynotes, I say watch it. I wouldn't recommend it if it sucked, but it didn't. It was pretty good. With the exception of the Hololens demo, every time they demo that it just seems like a lie and they won't be able to deliver. Time will tell.
Some of them are really good, like Excel and some versions of Visual Studio, some are pretty good like Visio and OneNote, but others are pure torture like Skype, Outlook, Word, and Windows OS itself.
I can say the same for Apple software, which sometimes are very good, like OS X (even though the latest releases have their issues), while others are awful, like iWorks, Photos as a replacement for Aperture and Mac Mail. Clearly Apple have their list of bad applications and products too. But I don't see why is that a reason that I should never buy something from them.
When was MS irrelevant? They have been for years the largest software company in the world and their enterprise business have been very successful.
MS doesn't needs to follow Apple to succeed. They have been making great devices and services in the last 3-5 years, and a lot of them are completely different from what Apple is doing. For example, Azure, Office 365, Xbox / Xbox Live and the long list of server and enterprise software are markets where Apple is absent or far behind. And now they have the Surface 2 in 1 devices, a market that Apple decided to ignore. IMO, those "great minds" you mentioned are inventing and innovating like never before.
that's not a good reason for releasing a product. that's how you get crap.
no, if you can't answer why the market needs an OS X tablet, then there won't be one.
I'm not saying that OS X as it is should be used in a tablet device, neither iOS in a desktop/notebook. But it would be nice if Apple creates a UI that adapts when it's used in a tablet or desktop mode, like Windows 10 does.
Well that's an unfair assessment as there are many, many, many different models Windows laptops. Cheap ones, middle range, high end, etc. None of which are all built equally so you can't simply say, Windows laptops arent as premium as MacBooks. It's also easy to find a Windows Laptop with impeccable built quality that will last. In fact all of my longest lasting laptops have all been Windows laptop. The Surface line is also a really well built machine and will easily last a decade if not abused.
the only Windows laptops I'm familiar with are dells and hps, and they are crummy. can you link to some of these premium Windows notebooks that are as high quality was MacBook pros?
I want to get my hands on the MSI GT72S Dominator Pro G. I am also a sucker for 17" laptops.
It's $3100 but comes with some very seriously killer performance including a desktop (not mobile) GTX 980. It's thick and it's heavy, but will fully replace a desktop and have some serious gaming performance. It has every single port under the sun. It even has a blu-ray burner. Compare it to fully loaded MBP which comes in at $3200. Both the core i7 and GPU are unlocked if you want to tinker with it.
The MBP has a smaller screen and 16 gigs less ram, which is also slower ram. The MBP has a TB of flash storage while the MSI has 2x128 flash in raid zero plus a TB drive. The MBP is sleeker, lighter, better battery life and likely has better overall build quality over MSI. The MSI has all of the ports, screen size, the blu-ray burner and seriously incredible performance.
So it really depends on what your needs are.
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/MSI-GT72S-Dominator-Pro-G-Preview-Full-GTX-980-Gaming-Notebook
because it doesn't. excel.
Yes, it does as a 2 in 1 device. Great screen and stylus support, very good battery life and weight, excellent performance and an OS that adapts when it's being use as a tablet or PC/notebook. IMO, that's the description of a very good 2 in 1 device.
the only Windows laptops I'm familiar with are dells and hps, and they are crummy. can you link to some of these premium Windows notebooks that are as high quality was MacBook pros?
Lenovo Thinkpads have been an standard in enterprises for their quality, same as HP Elitebooks and Dell Latitudes.
Apple should make a Mac tablet.
Isn't that called a Macbook?
Apple should make a Mac tablet.
Originally Posted by JBDragonIsn't that called a Macbook?
No, JB, it isn't.
A Mac tablet would be iPad-like hardware running Mac OSX. Or, perhaps, Mac OSXi.
Yes, it is a catch 22.
"People don't care about touch enabled OS X devices because there aren't enough touch enabled OS X applications."?
"Developers can't/won't make touch enabled OS X applications because there isn't a market of touch enabled OS X devices."
Guess how you break that catch 22?
Many of the Adobe CC products for Windows now support touch. Not a bad beginning.
Style is subjective. If you don't like it, you don't like it, but it is not there on a whim.
The hinge is designed the way it is to dynamically move the fulcrum in a way that effectively makes the keyboard/base unit longer when you open it. This moves the center of gravity in such a way that it improves the balance of the open device. This allows you to have a balanced device when closed, yet have a device that does not tip over easily when open. All without adding more weight to the keyboard.
The gap also keeps the keys from rubbing on the screen without the need for ridges or bumpers that would distract from the look of the device when open.
that gap is absolutely horrible.
Its a joke that the tech media was all up in arms about the iPhone6 camera bump yet say nothing about this monstrosity.
The camera bump looks fine to me, but it does make the phone less stable on a flat surface.
Calling a design you don't like a monstrosity says a lot more about your opinion of yourself then it does about the design of the product.
(Edit, I think you need to look up the definition of monstrosity.)
A Mac tablet not for heavy work, but as the ultimate Keynote and PowerPoint presentation tool. Make presentations in Mac desktop and move them to the Mac tablet (400 to 600 g instead of 1 or 2 kg!) via USB pendrive (cloud? No, thanks!). Carry the Mac tablet to the presentation room. Because iOS is not fully compatible with Mac.
Both Powerpoint and Keynote are available for the iPad. Why on earth carry around a USB pendrive?
I am not trying to be a dick, commenting on the internet can be easily taken the wrong way so please don't think I am being a dick.
You should watch the keynote.
I like watching the various keynotes from all of the different companies. This one was possibly the best Microsoft keynote I have yet seen. It had decent pacing, the products looked decent and I thought Panos Panay had a pretty good and funny delivery.
So if you are in keynotes, I say watch it. I wouldn't recommend it if it sucked, but it didn't. It was pretty good. With the exception of the Hololens demo, every time they demo that it just seems like a lie and they won't be able to deliver. Time will tell.
I think you inadvertently just disclosed the real problem with these Surface things: that it is not clear what the purpose of these devices is. If we can't even agree on whether they represent a laptop, a hybrid, a tablet or a failed attempt at any of these, and if I have to sit through a keynote to get an understanding of 'how well they work', then there's something wrong with the product.
Apple gets it. And I have never watched any Apple keynote.
had you ever heard of use-c before the MB had it? and now it's mandatory?
That's nonsense. USB type-C was a known standard coming to the entire industry, it was also used in other devices before the 2015 MacBook.
I don't mind the gap, unless I am in London taking the Tube.
In fact that gap looks like it will remove the years-old problem that many laptops suffer where the keyboard makes an imprint on the screen from being closed. Once its closed, I can't imagine any sane person trying to force it to close more to get the gap to not exist. You close it, put it in your bag and never see the gap - or the keyboard imprint on your screen.
As to the durability of the hinge, screen locking mechanism and overall build quality remains to be seen. Might be a a great product, so far the 10 minute hands on reviews are mostly positive about the build quality. I will wait for some long term reviews, it's a little pricey for me to jump in on a 1.0 product.
Keyboard imprint, Really? I guess you must have not seen or used MacBooks. They have the sunken surface where keyboard is removing the issue of those imprint. Also, with the gap, when it is put in the bag, there are chances of loose pens and pencil or other crap sliding inside and possibly cause damage to the screen - Especially when there is only standing room in the Tube and you keep sliding your laptop bag. Finally, I think the product is expensive, considering that it is PC after all.
that gap is absolutely horrible.
Its a joke that the tech media was all up in arms about the iPhone6 camera bump yet say nothing about this monstrosity.
Finally, someone who does agree with me ;-) Yep! Media sure had a big issue with that camera bump, when there were many other phones out there with similar bumps in the bag. Not only tech media, but all media are always trying to be overly critical.
You could always get good quality laptops - Lenovo, HP and others always had some available. They were (until recently) lacking Apple aesthetics, but they were well built and reliable, some of them conforming various military specs.
However, endless sea of cheap, plastic machines - even if they are not made by Microsoft - are watering down consumers' perception of Windows machines. It is quite normal, I'd say, and works in every sphere - as in car industry, where Toyota will not make expensive car (under that brand) because all the cheap, good-value-for-the-money but still brand diluting little Toyotas that are flooding streets... thus we have Lexus, or Infinity, or Acura.
The way I see it, Surface is that kind of re-branding. Not that Microsoft will complain if Surfaces sell well - but I think they will be perfectly content if it just helps them achieve better brand recognition - and I think it is. A few years back, most our customers would think cheap USB mice and keyboards if anyone mentions Microsoft hardware. Today already, they think well executed convertible computing devices. In the future, more and more people will rather associate Surfaces than cheap Acers to "Windows machine" and this can - and will - help both Microsoft and Windows brand. Rather than letting consumers associate cheap Acer (and likes) with Windows and, indirectly, to Microsoft themselves, they are fiddling with consumers' mind-state to start associating quality build, expensive, premium Surface devices not only to Microsoft, but also to Windows as a platform and PC as a category.
I think they are doing this quite smartly. Even if Surfaces never grow to be real sales success for MS, they will do good one way or the other.
It is quite clear what device is, and it has proven to do so quite well in real life.
It is convertible, more universal form of computer device. Put it on docking station at your desk, with desktop monitors, keyboard and mouse attached - it has more than enough power for majority of office tasks to replace successfully standard business desktop or laptop. We have a few among our staff and more than a few among our customers, no one so far has complained about performance or any other limitations... and even with dock, it takes less space on the desk than standard laptop or desktop machine.
Take it off the dock with type cover attached and carry it to meetings as very portable laptop. It does sound clumsy compared to laptop, but kickstand becomes second nature quickly and type cover keyboard is providing solid typing experience - better than many real laptops I have experienced. And you can remove keyboard and keep Surface in your hand during PowerPoint presentation easier than laptop, while controlling presentation over touch screen.
Take it home, stretch on sofa, remove keyboard and use it for casual browsing or media. Yes it is bigger and heavier than iPad and average Android tablet, but it also has more real estate than most... and with kickstand, you can find perfect position for it without need to hold it in your hand, or to position your body so that it supports tablet at good angle. You can create any angle with stand, rather than using your whole body to achieve this. I often keep mine (while in bed or stretching on sofa) on my belly with both my hands free - so I an hold a drink in one hand and manipulate tablet with the other.
And when I travel, I use Lightroom and Photoshop to play with my photos, keep in touch with my work (if I have to), in addition to all the usual vacation uses. It does replace laptop, tablet and ereader if I really feel like carrying only one device.
Different folks, different needs, of course. It works great for me. I'm yet to hear complain from any of our customers or staff members who are using them - so I believe it will do well for many in general. For those where it doesn't, luckily there are many other options.