Duplicating the capabilities of Office, Outlook, Access, network management tools, etc, etc, is a function of resource deployment. Apple has concentrated its resources to exploiting a market not controlled by IT "professionals" (read: MSCEs). Partnering with Cisco and IBVM brings resources and expertise to make Microsoft proprietary tools irrelevant in a TCP/IP controlled world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanVM
Would be nice to see examples on how Apple is so far ahead, because what I'm seeing right now is MS dominating Apple enterprise offerings,
#5 Plus you may add applications and services Apple don't have, like System Center / Intune, Exchange, SharePoint and Skype for Business. I don't see how Apple is 3-5 years ahead.
#6 Apple tried with servers and failed. Let's see how it goes with desktops / notebooks.
Now we have to see how that deployment goes. Hope IBM release white papers with details.
#7 To bring MS to irrelevance, you have to do more than take down Windows in the desktop. There still Office, Dynamics, plus all server, management and cloud offerings. And those applications are far ahead than Apple and IBM enterprise offerings combined. BTW, what you see in the market to think that in 2025 Mac will be in 10% of the enterprise market?
Irrelevant. Office was first developed for Mac then ported to Windows a long time ago. It runs today on Mac with some features appearing in the Mac version before it does in the Windows version.
Irrelevant. Apple is not in the server business, a product category amply serviced by others. Further TCP/IP makes server OS and desktop OS compatibility a thing of the past.
That's your privilege. Ballmer didn't see it either. iPod crushed Zune. iPhone destroy Windows Mobile. iPad destroyed Microsoft's 10 year effort to create a tablet market. Microsoft has no answer to any wearable.
All of these initiatives may be considered consumer oriented, but they are finding application in the enterprise, entering through he backdoor, because of the mobility needs of enterprise users, bypassing IT gatekeepers. Japan's enterprise, in total, have adopted iOS as their mobility platform. Partnerships with Cisco, IBM and others has Apple now knocking on the front door of enterprise.
Apple has maintained its dominance of the above markets despite the combined competitive efforts of dozens of Android and Windows licensees. MacOSX powered devices have been bucking the industry trend of declining unit sales for several years.
Apple controls more than 90% of profits in the product categories in competes in. Say what you want about unit market share, the fact remains that unit sales without corresponding profits is the foundation of future bankruppticys. Even Samsung, the only profitable Android manufacturer, is losing ground in its own backyard.
As far as the 10% market share observation, it doesn't require much insight to see the change in enterprise attitudes re: Apple products (iPhone/iPad) and extrapolating that to desktop share with the very capable assistance of IBM's business solutions team.
Point #7 An IBM white paper on the deployment of Apple products (including desktops) exists and is being distributed to IBM customers looking for solutions that Win/xx can't deliver (many including lower TCO).
When you see the quality of software like iWorks and compared it MS Office, or Photos as replacement for Aperture, then is easy to see the reason they gave it for free.
Utterly clueless post. And you're clearly a Microsoft shill, since it appears you've used neither Pages nor Keynote. I rarely use Word, and jettisoned Powerpoint for KN years ago (PPT a piece of crap software). Excel is better than numbers, though, for my needs.
You are right. But it looks like they have a hit in their hands with the Surface Pro, and now the Surface Book. Looking forward to see how it goes.
And looks like Xbox is doing good, even though PS4 is ahead.
Yawn. Until they come out actual, audited numbers that show they sold many many dozens of millions of Surface Pros, I'll consider it a fail. Let me know when that happens, will ya?
From what I have seen, Amazon and MS are the top cloud providers and are far ahead of the third one (even Amazon have a big advantage over MS Azure). The other competitors aren't at the same level yet, and doesn't look like there will be someone close soon (at least in the IaaS and PaaS market). And I don't see how MS cloud business is a threat to Apple hardware business.
Got any market share numbers from credible sources that you can share with us? In any event, I already mentioned that Microsoft was successful in the cloud. But I have not seen any numbers on how successful except for Nadella boasting about it.
The 15" rMBP is a larger heavier device in a different size class, I don't understand your comparison. It also doesn't offer the tablet/pen features. By that logic you can get a Sager laptop with a 4K Gsync 15" display, a desktop i7-6700, a GTX 980M and 16 GB DDR4-2133 for only $2,375 which is less than the 15" rMBP. So who cares if it's a larger and heavier device /s.
1. The 13" rMBP doesn't have a dGPU, so there is nothing to compare.
2. Just because touch and the stylus has no benefit to you, doesn't mean there aren't people that will benefit.
3. 3 hour battery life in the tablet is enough for using it away from the keyboard for brief amounts of time.
On your point 1, yes, there is a comparable. The SB with integrated graphics. But MS isn't promoting this comparison, are they. I would venture to guess there is a reason for that.
Point 2, it's not just me that sees no or very limited use for the stylus and touchscreen. It's a "feature" created to "compete" against the touch screen market dominated by iOS and Android.
Point 3, is exactly the thing that MS is doing - selling a laptop with a detachable screen, never really meant to be a tablet. This is really true of the Surface itself, which in reality requires the keyboard and mouse - the fallback for MS and many PC users who really don't want to change from what they know and are comfortable with.
Duplicating the capabilities of Office, Outlook, Access, network management tools, etc, etc, is a function of resource deployment. Apple has concentrated its resources to exploiting a market not controlled by IT "professionals" (read: MSCEs). Partnering with Cisco and IBVM brings resources and expertise to make Microsoft proprietary tools irrelevant in a TCP/IP controlled world.
I don't see how MS is more or less proprietary than IBM, Cisco or even Apple. But for some reason it's bad when it from MS, even though their software integrates with vendors, like Salesforce, SAP, Cisco, Sage, IBM, and even Apple. Plus I may add how Azure it's certified for Oracle, Ubuntu Linux, Suse Linus, CentOS, and technologies like Docker, Hadoop and Chef. The support and integration MS offers for those services and applications is what makes them so strong in the enterprise and the reason their tools are being used so much by "MCSE"s (I prefer to call them IT professionals, since most of them do an excellent job). Compare that to Apple, that don't even have an enterprise grade application or service to deploy their devices, and now ask for IBM and Cisco for help. Do you still think that MS will be irrelevant in the "TCP/IP controlled world"?
Irrelevant. Office was first developed for Mac then ported to Windows a long time ago. It runs today on Mac with some features appearing in the Mac version before it does in the Windows version.
Still the Windows version is far better than the Apple version.
Irrelevant. Cloud capabilities are platform agnostic.
And still MS cloud infrastructure and service is far ahead from what Apple offers.
Quote:
Irrelevant. Apple is not in the server business, a product category amply serviced by others. Further TCP/IP makes server OS and desktop OS compatibility a thing of the past.
That's your privilege. Ballmer didn't see it either. iPod crushed Zune. iPhone destroy Windows Mobile. iPad destroyed Microsoft's 10 year effort to create a tablet market. Microsoft has no answer to any wearable.
All of these initiatives may be considered consumer oriented, but they are finding application in the enterprise, entering through he backdoor, because of the mobility needs of enterprise users, bypassing IT gatekeepers. Japan's enterprise, in total, have adopted iOS as their mobility platform. Partnerships with Cisco, IBM and others has Apple now knocking on the front door of enterprise.
Apple has maintained its dominance of the above markets despite the combined competitive efforts of dozens of Android and Windows licensees. MacOSX powered devices have been bucking the industry trend of declining unit sales for several years.
Apple controls more than 90% of profits in the product categories in competes in. Say what you want about unit market share, the fact remains that unit sales without corresponding profits is the foundation of future bankruppticys. Even Samsung, the only profitable Android manufacturer, is losing ground in its own backyard.
As far as the 10% market share observation, it doesn't require much insight to see the change in enterprise attitudes re: Apple products (iPhone/iPad) and extrapolating that to desktop share with the very capable assistance of IBM's business solutions team.
Ballmer missed many things, but he is no more. Now Nadella is running the show, and looks like he has been very good in the short amount of time as a CEO. In case you don't know, he was the president of server software, and the one who moved everything to the cloud. I think you agree with me that he has a better vision than Ballmer. And even the stock market seem to agree. At the same time, Apple has Tim Cook, which latest devices and services (Macbook, Apple Watch, Apple Music and iPad Pro) haven't been too good.
Apple still dominates with the iPhone and profits with Macs. But enterprises are much more than iOS devices and Macs, and that's the only thing that Apple can offer. Compare that to the whole MS stack, that includes software, cloud services and now hardware. Now you may understand why Apple needs help from Cisco and IBM.
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Point #7 An IBM white paper on the deployment of Apple products (including desktops) exists and is being distributed to IBM customers looking for solutions that Win/xx can't deliver (many including lower TCO)
Interesting how you quickly believe IBM that Apple offers a lower TCO. Would you believe if I show you a white paper from MS saying the contrary? I don't believe neither, since those environments may not match my business. Maybe you should be more careful with what you read and believe. Because it's in the internet doesn't make it true, and that includes if it's from MS, Apple, IBM or any vendor.
Utterly clueless post. And you're clearly a Microsoft shill, since it appears you've used neither Pages nor Keynote. I rarely use Word, and jettisoned Powerpoint for KN years ago (PPT a piece of crap software). Excel is better than numbers, though, for my needs.
First of all, I consider my self a Microsoft and Apple user, not a Microsoft shill. I own devices and use services and applications from MS and Apple daily, and I think both of the have good and negative things. And yes, I tried to use iWorks apps, and are far behind to MS Office, specially the Windows version.
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Yawn. Until they come out actual, audited numbers that show they sold many many dozens of millions of Surface Pros, I'll consider it a fail. Let me know when that happens, will ya?
Interesting POV. In that case, would you consider Apple Watch, Mac Mini or Mac Pro's failures since Apple hasn't release sales numbers for those devices?
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Got any market share numbers from credible sources that you can share with us? In any event, I already mentioned that Microsoft was successful in the cloud. But I have not seen any numbers on how successful except for Nadella boasting about it.
I've never heard of 'techrepublic.com.' Thefool.com' is not a credible source for finance news.
Fortune, otoh, is. But the article you link to provides no market share information. It says, however: "Microsoft has been betting on its cloud business to offset the declines in its personal computing business, which includes Windows, phones, and the Surface tablet. That business unit took in $9.4 billion in the first quarter, a 17% decline from $11.2 billion in the previous year."
The Surface Pro division had a 17% DECLINE. Do you even read the stuff you link to? Or, when challenged, did you simply search for some facts on the web ex post and cut and paste the links so as to sound knowledgeable?
Try harder the next time.
(One more thing: I will say for the third time what I originally said, which is that Microsoft has a successful cloud business.)
I've never heard of 'techrepublic.com.' Thefool.com' is not a credible source for finance news.
Fortune, otoh, is. But the article you link to provides no market share information. It says, however: "Microsoft has been betting on its cloud business to offset the declines in its personal computing business, which includes Windows, phones, and the Surface tablet. That business unit took in $9.4 billion in the first quarter, a 17% decline from $11.2 billion in the previous year."
The Surface Pro division had a 17% DECLINE. Do you even read the stuff you link to? Or, when challenged, did you simply search for some facts on the web ex post and cut and paste the links so as to sound knowledgeable?
Try harder the next time.
(One more thing: I will say for the third time what I originally said, which is that Microsoft has a successful cloud business.)
I don't know your criteria for a reliable source. The two "not credible" websites mentioned stats from Gartner, someone I don't know is listed in your reliable websites. In that case, do you own research in the websites you prefer. It would be easier.
Regarding the Surface, yes, sales went down. Could it be because customers were expecting the SP4? Looks like MS was expecting it. Here is a line from the earnings report conference call,
"As expected, Surface revenue slowed with the market anticipation of a new Surface Pro device for the holidays."
That would make sense. Based in the reviews, looks like the SP4 is a great device and better than the SP3. Plus MS recently added 5000 partners over 30 countries, and even they had to increase the production.
In addition, they announced the Surface Book, that looks very good for a v1 product. Maybe next quarter things would be better. Still, you don't care because it's a failed product, since there is no "audited numbers", same as Apple Watch, Mac Mini, Mac Pro, Macbook, among other Apple products that have no "audited numbers". I didn't know (considering your criteria) that Apple had some many failures.
I don't know your criteria for a reliable source. The two "not credible" websites mentioned stats from Gartner, someone I don't know is listed in your reliable websites. In that case, do you own research in the websites you prefer. It would be easier.
Regarding the Surface, yes, sales went down. Could it be because customers were expecting the SP4? Looks like MS was expecting it. Here is a line from the earnings report conference call,
"As expected, Surface revenue slowed with the market anticipation of a new Surface Pro device for the holidays."
That would make sense. Based in the reviews, looks like the SP4 is a great device and better than the SP3. Plus MS recently added 5000 partners over 30 countries, and even they had to increase the production.
In addition, they announced the Surface Book, that looks very good for a v1 product. Maybe next quarter things would be better. Still, you don't care because it's a failed product, since there is no "audited numbers", same as Apple Watch, Mac Mini, Mac Pro, Macbook, among other Apple products that have no "audited numbers". I didn't know (considering your criteria) that Apple had some many failures.
BusinessInsider? Digitimes!? A Microsoft blog??! Really? REALLY?
Stop embarrassing yourself, and please go away.
(SP3 sales fell because of anticipation of SP4? Will SP4 sales fall because of anticipation of SP5? SP(N) because of SP(N+1)?:rolleyes:)
One thing Microsoft seems to be unaware of is that Apple is planning to go after the enterprise market that is in dire need of a better user experience. Who is better to provide that other than Apple.
IBM Apple
You've got it and Ballmer is trying to shift the purchasers away from it. What a dumb ball Ballmer is, he must choke MS.
With IBM dropping their employee Windows PCs for MacBooks, which they say are much easier to use than Windows, the die is cast for Windows hardware to stay low volume.
Unless of course MS is planning to use MacOS X or Linux !
Why does anyone even ask this blowhard anything. He hasn't been right on a single thing since he had a giggle at Apple's iPhone in 2007, but I suspect he was wrong on practically everything leading up to then. Uncle Fester needs to go run a basketball team into the ground...
That's why MS kicked him out.
For several years he was wrong on everything.
Billie probably said get rid of him fast or my MS share income will go down.
It's not so much that the PC OEM folks make crap products. They're just not pushing the hardware forward in any meaningful way.
In what way are they not pushing things forward and Microsoft is? PC OEMs had 2-in-1 machines before Microsoft did. Like I said, the Dell XPS 13 was being drooled over by the tech press now it's as if no good Windows hardware existed prior to Surface.
That's probably the case.
I read the Surface is the only PC Laptop with a proper functioning trackpad.
My Win Netbook, friends HP Laptop and all PCLaptops I've tried in stores have a horrible trackpad function.
Of course the problem is trying to build an OS to run properly on many different PC designs.
Apple has control over both the HDW and OS, so it's much easier for Apple to get it right.
As an aside, it would be neat to see Apples take on something like a Chrome Book for around $300. Something like an affordable, simple, non-touch screen iPad in a notebook format running a simple OS like iOS on an ARM processor. Just a thought.
I wouldn't be a customer for either, for several reasons.
The Surface Pro 3 has sold well and the Surface Book has been getting good reviews. (If it weren't so crazy expensive I'd be tempted to give a Surface Book a try) Like it or not, Microsoft is making hardware people like, and I don't see how that's a bad thing. Apple has been selling essentially the same MacBook Airs and Pros for 5 and 7 years respectively. Apple could use a kick in the butt when it comes to laptops.
You obviously aren't keeping up to date with Apple's hardware.
I've been looking at the MacBook Air and is has been steadily evolving.
Actually the most recent upgrade to the MacBook Air is not to obvious. It's the much improved MacBook with retina display.
I don't see how MS is more or less proprietary than IBM, Cisco or even Apple. But for some reason it's bad when it from MS, even though their software integrates with vendors, like Salesforce, SAP, Cisco, Sage, IBM, and even Apple. Plus I may add how Azure it's certified for Oracle, Ubuntu Linux, Suse Linus, CentOS, and technologies like Docker, Hadoop and Chef. The support and integration MS offers for those services and applications is what makes them so strong in the enterprise and the reason their tools are being used so much by "MCSE"s (I prefer to call them IT professionals, since most of them do an excellent job). Compare that to Apple, that don't even have an enterprise grade application or service to deploy their devices, and now ask for IBM and Cisco for help. Do you still think that MS will be irrelevant in the "TCP/IP controlled world"?
Still the Windows version is far better than the Apple version.
And still MS cloud infrastructure and service is far ahead from what Apple offers.
I don't see what a browser has to do with SQL Server / Access.
Ballmer missed many things, but he is no more. Now Nadella is running the show, and looks like he has been very good in the short amount of time as a CEO. In case you don't know, he was the president of server software, and the one who moved everything to the cloud. I think you agree with me that he has a better vision than Ballmer. And even the stock market seem to agree. At the same time, Apple has Tim Cook, which latest devices and services (Macbook, Apple Watch, Apple Music and iPad Pro) haven't been too good.
Apple still dominates with the iPhone and profits with Macs. But enterprises are much more than iOS devices and Macs, and that's the only thing that Apple can offer. Compare that to the whole MS stack, that includes software, cloud services and now hardware. Now you may understand why Apple needs help from Cisco and IBM.
Interesting how you quickly believe IBM that Apple offers a lower TCO. Would you believe if I show you a white paper from MS saying the contrary? I don't believe neither, since those environments may not match my business. Maybe you should be more careful with what you read and believe. Because it's in the internet doesn't make it true, and that includes if it's from MS, Apple, IBM or any vendor.
I love all the IT guys like yourself that MS cranks out; totally miss the consumer market that Apple dominates.
Here's news; MS doubled down on Wintel. MS has abandoned ARM, which means that they and their few remaining OEM's will never be competitive in mobile. MS created these hybrids as they can't build a decent mobile product competitive with iOS or even Android.
You think that MS created the Surface Book and Surface Pro from a position of enlightenment, but it has been from a history of weakness; the PC market is shrinking and mobile is expanding but MS goes deep with more x86. Hybrids are just an acknowledgment that MS missed the mobile market and is attempting to protect x86.
This year alone, Apple will sell over 250 million iOS devices, and its Mac market continues to grow. Better, Apple is continuing to develop its A Series processors for a world that is adopting the cloud for what would previously have been exclusively PC applications; all driven by the need for corporate revenue streams. Ironically, even MS acknowledges this with Windows 10.
It's great to see both Google and MS acknowledge that the OEM model is a failure against a vertical business model; that only confirms what Apple has been doing since Steve Jobs returned to Apple.
Your distaste for Apple's productivity apps is noted. See paragraph 1.
…the OEM model is a failure against a vertical business model; …
That sounds interesting. Could you elaborate on this thought? Would you say Apple having predominantly a horizontal business model was key to success? I am not sure why MS and Google should be considered mostly vertical, but maybe I am not understanding what you're saying.
I love all the IT guys like yourself that MS cranks out; totally miss the consumer market that Apple dominates.
I don't see how MS ignored the consumer market, when Windows and Office dominate desktops over OS X and iWorks in both consumer and business use. Plus the Xbox have been doing great.
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Here's news; MS doubled down on Wintel. MS has abandoned ARM, which means that they and their few remaining OEM's will never be competitive in mobile. MS created these hybrids as they can't build a decent mobile product competitive with iOS or even Android.
Yes, MS did awful with tablets and smartphones. But Surface Pro looks like great 2 in 1 devices, and looks like Apple can't build a decent one. Let's see how it develops in the next few years.
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You think that MS created the Surface Book and Surface Pro from a position of enlightenment, but it has been from a history of weakness; the PC market is shrinking and mobile is expanding but MS goes deep with more x86. Hybrids are just an acknowledgment that MS missed the mobile market and is attempting to protect x86.
I agree with you, the Surface Pro is a desperate action from failing in tablets and smartphones. Same as Apple, who was doing not to good when it came with the iPhone, and looks how they succeed. Sometime companies get lazy when they are in a good position. Based in the latest devices and services from Apple (Macbook, iPad Pro, Apple Music, Apple Watch), they are the one who are getting complacent with little incentive to innovate, while MS in the ropes innovates with the Surface Pro / Surface Book and the whole cloud infrastructure, while trying to fix previous mistakes, like Windows 8, and make better software and devices that are already successful, like MS Office and Xbox.
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This year alone, Apple will sell over 250 million iOS devices, and its Mac market continues to grow. Better, Apple is continuing to develop its A Series processors for a world that is adopting the cloud for what would previously have been exclusively PC applications; all driven by the need for corporate revenue streams. Ironically, even MS acknowledges this with Windows 10.
It's great to see both Google and MS acknowledge that the OEM model is a failure against a vertical business model; that only confirms what Apple has been doing since Steve Jobs returned to Apple.
The OEM model has been successful for many years. The problem, like I posted before, was they got lazy. On the opposite, Apple kept doing great devices. IMO, the failure isn't the OEM model, are the OEM's by them self.
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Your distaste for Apple's productivity apps is noted. See paragraph 1.
I don't know where you got that. I have and use devices, applications and services from both, Apple and MS, every day. It's easy for me to see where they are good and where they are not so good. I don't have any issues point out bad or good things from any of them.
BusinessInsider? Digitimes!? A Microsoft blog??! Really? REALLY?
Stop embarrassing yourself, and please go away.
(SP3 sales fell because of anticipation of SP4? Will SP4 sales fall because of anticipation of SP5? SP(N) because of SP(N+1)?)
oops, I forgot you approve website list. Like I mentioned before, will be easy if you search by yourself in your approved website information about Surface Pro partners and production increase.
Regarding Surface Pro sales, the previous quarters they were growing before this quarter decline. We'll have to wait how the new devices sell during the next quarter. And based in the positives reviews for both, Surface Pro and Surface Book, there is a chance sales will be good.
How the Macbook is an improved Macbook Air when it has less battery life, less expansion ports and what is maybe the worst keyboard I have ever used?
it is fanless. It is slimmer than ever. It has a retina display. More people seem to think the keyboard is an improvement than the opposite. It showcases new technologies that will be the de-facto standard across all Apple laptops five years from now, and possibly adopted by any other manufacturers that can afford to in the five years after that.
Also, it moves towards a single port for everything, rather than having twenty-five different connectors for everything. This is annoying at the moment, but it forces things in a Good Direction (remember the original iMac and its USB-only outrage that kickstarted the shift to USB for the whole industry).
Comments
Duplicating the capabilities of Office, Outlook, Access, network management tools, etc, etc, is a function of resource deployment. Apple has concentrated its resources to exploiting a market not controlled by IT "professionals" (read: MSCEs). Partnering with Cisco and IBVM brings resources and expertise to make Microsoft proprietary tools irrelevant in a TCP/IP controlled world.
Quote:
Would be nice to see examples on how Apple is so far ahead, because what I'm seeing right now is MS dominating Apple enterprise offerings,
#1 iWorks vs MS Office
#2 iCloud vs Office 365 / Azure
#3 OS X Server vs Windows Server
#4 Filemaker vs SQL Server / Access
#5 Plus you may add applications and services Apple don't have, like System Center / Intune, Exchange, SharePoint and Skype for Business. I don't see how Apple is 3-5 years ahead.
#6 Apple tried with servers and failed. Let's see how it goes with desktops / notebooks.
Now we have to see how that deployment goes. Hope IBM release white papers with details.
#7 To bring MS to irrelevance, you have to do more than take down Windows in the desktop. There still Office, Dynamics, plus all server, management and cloud offerings. And those applications are far ahead than Apple and IBM enterprise offerings combined. BTW, what you see in the market to think that in 2025 Mac will be in 10% of the enterprise market?
Point #1
Point #2
Point #4
As far as the 10% market share observation, it doesn't require much insight to see the change in enterprise attitudes re: Apple products (iPhone/iPad) and extrapolating that to desktop share with the very capable assistance of IBM's business solutions team.
Point #6
Yes, let's.
Point #7 An IBM white paper on the deployment of Apple products (including desktops) exists and is being distributed to IBM customers looking for solutions that Win/xx can't deliver (many including lower TCO).
Utterly clueless post. And you're clearly a Microsoft shill, since it appears you've used neither Pages nor Keynote. I rarely use Word, and jettisoned Powerpoint for KN years ago (PPT a piece of crap software). Excel is better than numbers, though, for my needs.
Yawn. Until they come out actual, audited numbers that show they sold many many dozens of millions of Surface Pros, I'll consider it a fail. Let me know when that happens, will ya?
Got any market share numbers from credible sources that you can share with us? In any event, I already mentioned that Microsoft was successful in the cloud. But I have not seen any numbers on how successful except for Nadella boasting about it.
Come back in a few years and give us an update.
The 15" rMBP is a larger heavier device in a different size class, I don't understand your comparison. It also doesn't offer the tablet/pen features. By that logic you can get a Sager laptop with a 4K Gsync 15" display, a desktop i7-6700, a GTX 980M and 16 GB DDR4-2133 for only $2,375 which is less than the 15" rMBP. So who cares if it's a larger and heavier device /s.
The base model is $1499 without a dGPU. There is a model for $1699 with the dGPU and 128 GB storage (http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/22/microsoft-surface-book-dgpu-1700/).
1. The 13" rMBP doesn't have a dGPU, so there is nothing to compare.
2. Just because touch and the stylus has no benefit to you, doesn't mean there aren't people that will benefit.
3. 3 hour battery life in the tablet is enough for using it away from the keyboard for brief amounts of time.
On your point 1, yes, there is a comparable. The SB with integrated graphics. But MS isn't promoting this comparison, are they. I would venture to guess there is a reason for that.
Point 2, it's not just me that sees no or very limited use for the stylus and touchscreen. It's a "feature" created to "compete" against the touch screen market dominated by iOS and Android.
Point 3, is exactly the thing that MS is doing - selling a laptop with a detachable screen, never really meant to be a tablet. This is really true of the Surface itself, which in reality requires the keyboard and mouse - the fallback for MS and many PC users who really don't want to change from what they know and are comfortable with.
Originally Posted by Gregg Thurman
Duplicating the capabilities of Office, Outlook, Access, network management tools, etc, etc, is a function of resource deployment. Apple has concentrated its resources to exploiting a market not controlled by IT "professionals" (read: MSCEs). Partnering with Cisco and IBVM brings resources and expertise to make Microsoft proprietary tools irrelevant in a TCP/IP controlled world.
I don't see how MS is more or less proprietary than IBM, Cisco or even Apple. But for some reason it's bad when it from MS, even though their software integrates with vendors, like Salesforce, SAP, Cisco, Sage, IBM, and even Apple. Plus I may add how Azure it's certified for Oracle, Ubuntu Linux, Suse Linus, CentOS, and technologies like Docker, Hadoop and Chef. The support and integration MS offers for those services and applications is what makes them so strong in the enterprise and the reason their tools are being used so much by "MCSE"s (I prefer to call them IT professionals, since most of them do an excellent job). Compare that to Apple, that don't even have an enterprise grade application or service to deploy their devices, and now ask for IBM and Cisco for help. Do you still think that MS will be irrelevant in the "TCP/IP controlled world"?
Still the Windows version is far better than the Apple version.
And still MS cloud infrastructure and service is far ahead from what Apple offers.
http://www.apple.com/osx/server/
Still very limited compared to Windows Server.
I don't see what a browser has to do with SQL Server / Access.
As far as the 10% market share observation, it doesn't require much insight to see the change in enterprise attitudes re: Apple products (iPhone/iPad) and extrapolating that to desktop share with the very capable assistance of IBM's business solutions team.
Ballmer missed many things, but he is no more. Now Nadella is running the show, and looks like he has been very good in the short amount of time as a CEO. In case you don't know, he was the president of server software, and the one who moved everything to the cloud. I think you agree with me that he has a better vision than Ballmer. And even the stock market seem to agree. At the same time, Apple has Tim Cook, which latest devices and services (Macbook, Apple Watch, Apple Music and iPad Pro) haven't been too good.
Apple still dominates with the iPhone and profits with Macs. But enterprises are much more than iOS devices and Macs, and that's the only thing that Apple can offer. Compare that to the whole MS stack, that includes software, cloud services and now hardware. Now you may understand why Apple needs help from Cisco and IBM.
Interesting how you quickly believe IBM that Apple offers a lower TCO. Would you believe if I show you a white paper from MS saying the contrary? I don't believe neither, since those environments may not match my business. Maybe you should be more careful with what you read and believe. Because it's in the internet doesn't make it true, and that includes if it's from MS, Apple, IBM or any vendor.
First of all, I consider my self a Microsoft and Apple user, not a Microsoft shill. I own devices and use services and applications from MS and Apple daily, and I think both of the have good and negative things. And yes, I tried to use iWorks apps, and are far behind to MS Office, specially the Windows version.
Interesting POV. In that case, would you consider Apple Watch, Mac Mini or Mac Pro's failures since Apple hasn't release sales numbers for those devices?
http://www.techrepublic.com/article/microsoft-azure-doubles-its-lead-over-oracle-ibm/
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/10/21/microsoft-corporation-is-catching-up-to-amazoncom.aspx
http://fortune.com/2015/10/22/microsoft-cloud-business/
I've never heard of 'techrepublic.com.' Thefool.com' is not a credible source for finance news.
Fortune, otoh, is. But the article you link to provides no market share information. It says, however: "Microsoft has been betting on its cloud business to offset the declines in its personal computing business, which includes Windows, phones, and the Surface tablet. That business unit took in $9.4 billion in the first quarter, a 17% decline from $11.2 billion in the previous year."
The Surface Pro division had a 17% DECLINE. Do you even read the stuff you link to? Or, when challenged, did you simply search for some facts on the web ex post and cut and paste the links so as to sound knowledgeable?
Try harder the next time.
(One more thing: I will say for the third time what I originally said, which is that Microsoft has a successful cloud business.)
I've never heard of 'techrepublic.com.' Thefool.com' is not a credible source for finance news.
Fortune, otoh, is. But the article you link to provides no market share information. It says, however: "Microsoft has been betting on its cloud business to offset the declines in its personal computing business, which includes Windows, phones, and the Surface tablet. That business unit took in $9.4 billion in the first quarter, a 17% decline from $11.2 billion in the previous year."
The Surface Pro division had a 17% DECLINE. Do you even read the stuff you link to? Or, when challenged, did you simply search for some facts on the web ex post and cut and paste the links so as to sound knowledgeable?
Try harder the next time.
(One more thing: I will say for the third time what I originally said, which is that Microsoft has a successful cloud business.)
I don't know your criteria for a reliable source. The two "not credible" websites mentioned stats from Gartner, someone I don't know is listed in your reliable websites. In that case, do you own research in the websites you prefer. It would be easier.
Regarding the Surface, yes, sales went down. Could it be because customers were expecting the SP4? Looks like MS was expecting it. Here is a line from the earnings report conference call,
"As expected, Surface revenue slowed with the market anticipation of a new Surface Pro device for the holidays."
That would make sense. Based in the reviews, looks like the SP4 is a great device and better than the SP3. Plus MS recently added 5000 partners over 30 countries, and even they had to increase the production.
http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-surface-pro-4-popular-with-businesses-2015-10
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20151019PD201.html
https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2015/10/20/surface-pro-4-is-the-fastest-surface-adopted-in-business-ever/
In addition, they announced the Surface Book, that looks very good for a v1 product. Maybe next quarter things would be better. Still, you don't care because it's a failed product, since there is no "audited numbers", same as Apple Watch, Mac Mini, Mac Pro, Macbook, among other Apple products that have no "audited numbers". I didn't know (considering your criteria) that Apple had some many failures.
BusinessInsider? Digitimes!? A Microsoft blog??! Really? REALLY?
Stop embarrassing yourself, and please go away.
(SP3 sales fell because of anticipation of SP4? Will SP4 sales fall because of anticipation of SP5? SP(N) because of SP(N+1)?:rolleyes:)
One thing Microsoft seems to be unaware of is that Apple is planning to go after the enterprise market that is in dire need of a better user experience. Who is better to provide that other than Apple.
IBM Apple
You've got it and Ballmer is trying to shift the purchasers away from it. What a dumb ball Ballmer is, he must choke MS.
With IBM dropping their employee Windows PCs for MacBooks, which they say are much easier to use than Windows, the die is cast for Windows hardware to stay low volume.
Unless of course MS is planning to use MacOS X or Linux !
Why does anyone even ask this blowhard anything. He hasn't been right on a single thing since he had a giggle at Apple's iPhone in 2007, but I suspect he was wrong on practically everything leading up to then. Uncle Fester needs to go run a basketball team into the ground...
That's why MS kicked him out.
For several years he was wrong on everything.
Billie probably said get rid of him fast or my MS share income will go down.
It's not so much that the PC OEM folks make crap products. They're just not pushing the hardware forward in any meaningful way.
In what way are they not pushing things forward and Microsoft is? PC OEMs had 2-in-1 machines before Microsoft did. Like I said, the Dell XPS 13 was being drooled over by the tech press now it's as if no good Windows hardware existed prior to Surface.
That's probably the case.
I read the Surface is the only PC Laptop with a proper functioning trackpad.
My Win Netbook, friends HP Laptop and all PCLaptops I've tried in stores have a horrible trackpad function.
Of course the problem is trying to build an OS to run properly on many different PC designs.
Apple has control over both the HDW and OS, so it's much easier for Apple to get it right.
As an aside, it would be neat to see Apples take on something like a Chrome Book for around $300. Something like an affordable, simple, non-touch screen iPad in a notebook format running a simple OS like iOS on an ARM processor. Just a thought.
I wouldn't be a customer for either, for several reasons.
The Surface Pro 3 has sold well and the Surface Book has been getting good reviews. (If it weren't so crazy expensive I'd be tempted to give a Surface Book a try) Like it or not, Microsoft is making hardware people like, and I don't see how that's a bad thing. Apple has been selling essentially the same MacBook Airs and Pros for 5 and 7 years respectively. Apple could use a kick in the butt when it comes to laptops.
You obviously aren't keeping up to date with Apple's hardware.
I've been looking at the MacBook Air and is has been steadily evolving.
Actually the most recent upgrade to the MacBook Air is not to obvious. It's the much improved MacBook with retina display.
I love your footnote !!!
I don't see how MS is more or less proprietary than IBM, Cisco or even Apple. But for some reason it's bad when it from MS, even though their software integrates with vendors, like Salesforce, SAP, Cisco, Sage, IBM, and even Apple. Plus I may add how Azure it's certified for Oracle, Ubuntu Linux, Suse Linus, CentOS, and technologies like Docker, Hadoop and Chef. The support and integration MS offers for those services and applications is what makes them so strong in the enterprise and the reason their tools are being used so much by "MCSE"s (I prefer to call them IT professionals, since most of them do an excellent job). Compare that to Apple, that don't even have an enterprise grade application or service to deploy their devices, and now ask for IBM and Cisco for help. Do you still think that MS will be irrelevant in the "TCP/IP controlled world"?
Still the Windows version is far better than the Apple version.
And still MS cloud infrastructure and service is far ahead from what Apple offers.
http://www.apple.com/osx/server/
Still very limited compared to Windows Server.
I don't see what a browser has to do with SQL Server / Access.
Ballmer missed many things, but he is no more. Now Nadella is running the show, and looks like he has been very good in the short amount of time as a CEO. In case you don't know, he was the president of server software, and the one who moved everything to the cloud. I think you agree with me that he has a better vision than Ballmer. And even the stock market seem to agree. At the same time, Apple has Tim Cook, which latest devices and services (Macbook, Apple Watch, Apple Music and iPad Pro) haven't been too good.
Apple still dominates with the iPhone and profits with Macs. But enterprises are much more than iOS devices and Macs, and that's the only thing that Apple can offer. Compare that to the whole MS stack, that includes software, cloud services and now hardware. Now you may understand why Apple needs help from Cisco and IBM.
Interesting how you quickly believe IBM that Apple offers a lower TCO. Would you believe if I show you a white paper from MS saying the contrary? I don't believe neither, since those environments may not match my business. Maybe you should be more careful with what you read and believe. Because it's in the internet doesn't make it true, and that includes if it's from MS, Apple, IBM or any vendor.
I love all the IT guys like yourself that MS cranks out; totally miss the consumer market that Apple dominates.
Here's news; MS doubled down on Wintel. MS has abandoned ARM, which means that they and their few remaining OEM's will never be competitive in mobile. MS created these hybrids as they can't build a decent mobile product competitive with iOS or even Android.
You think that MS created the Surface Book and Surface Pro from a position of enlightenment, but it has been from a history of weakness; the PC market is shrinking and mobile is expanding but MS goes deep with more x86. Hybrids are just an acknowledgment that MS missed the mobile market and is attempting to protect x86.
This year alone, Apple will sell over 250 million iOS devices, and its Mac market continues to grow. Better, Apple is continuing to develop its A Series processors for a world that is adopting the cloud for what would previously have been exclusively PC applications; all driven by the need for corporate revenue streams. Ironically, even MS acknowledges this with Windows 10.
It's great to see both Google and MS acknowledge that the OEM model is a failure against a vertical business model; that only confirms what Apple has been doing since Steve Jobs returned to Apple.
Your distaste for Apple's productivity apps is noted. See paragraph 1.
…the OEM model is a failure against a vertical business model; …
That sounds interesting. Could you elaborate on this thought? Would you say Apple having predominantly a horizontal business model was key to success? I am not sure why MS and Google should be considered mostly vertical, but maybe I am not understanding what you're saying.
I love all the IT guys like yourself that MS cranks out; totally miss the consumer market that Apple dominates.
I don't see how MS ignored the consumer market, when Windows and Office dominate desktops over OS X and iWorks in both consumer and business use. Plus the Xbox have been doing great.
Yes, MS did awful with tablets and smartphones. But Surface Pro looks like great 2 in 1 devices, and looks like Apple can't build a decent one. Let's see how it develops in the next few years.
Quote:
I agree with you, the Surface Pro is a desperate action from failing in tablets and smartphones. Same as Apple, who was doing not to good when it came with the iPhone, and looks how they succeed. Sometime companies get lazy when they are in a good position. Based in the latest devices and services from Apple (Macbook, iPad Pro, Apple Music, Apple Watch), they are the one who are getting complacent with little incentive to innovate, while MS in the ropes innovates with the Surface Pro / Surface Book and the whole cloud infrastructure, while trying to fix previous mistakes, like Windows 8, and make better software and devices that are already successful, like MS Office and Xbox.
Quote:
It's great to see both Google and MS acknowledge that the OEM model is a failure against a vertical business model; that only confirms what Apple has been doing since Steve Jobs returned to Apple.
The OEM model has been successful for many years. The problem, like I posted before, was they got lazy. On the opposite, Apple kept doing great devices. IMO, the failure isn't the OEM model, are the OEM's by them self.
Quote:
I don't know where you got that. I have and use devices, applications and services from both, Apple and MS, every day. It's easy for me to see where they are good and where they are not so good. I don't have any issues point out bad or good things from any of them.
You obviously aren't keeping up to date with Apple's hardware.
I've been looking at the MacBook Air and is has been steadily evolving.
Actually the most recent upgrade to the MacBook Air is not to obvious. It's the much improved MacBook with retina display.
How the Macbook is an improved Macbook Air when it has less battery life, less expansion ports and what is maybe the worst keyboard I have ever used?
BusinessInsider? Digitimes!? A Microsoft blog??! Really? REALLY?
Stop embarrassing yourself, and please go away.
(SP3 sales fell because of anticipation of SP4? Will SP4 sales fall because of anticipation of SP5? SP(N) because of SP(N+1)?
oops, I forgot you approve website list. Like I mentioned before, will be easy if you search by yourself in your approved website information about Surface Pro partners and production increase.
Regarding Surface Pro sales, the previous quarters they were growing before this quarter decline. We'll have to wait how the new devices sell during the next quarter. And based in the positives reviews for both, Surface Pro and Surface Book, there is a chance sales will be good.
How the Macbook is an improved Macbook Air when it has less battery life, less expansion ports and what is maybe the worst keyboard I have ever used?
it is fanless. It is slimmer than ever. It has a retina display. More people seem to think the keyboard is an improvement than the opposite. It showcases new technologies that will be the de-facto standard across all Apple laptops five years from now, and possibly adopted by any other manufacturers that can afford to in the five years after that.
Also, it moves towards a single port for everything, rather than having twenty-five different connectors for everything. This is annoying at the moment, but it forces things in a Good Direction (remember the original iMac and its USB-only outrage that kickstarted the shift to USB for the whole industry).