Apple resists MacBook, iPad Pro convergence as Microsoft struggles with Surface Windows 10 hybrids

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  • Reply 181 of 399
    neutrino23neutrino23 Posts: 1,562member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by CanukStorm View Post

     

    "Apple's introduction video consistency portrays iPad Pro as a large iPad, noting only momentarily that its Apple Pencil can be used to draw with precision on the screen."

     

    From what I've been reading / seeing, this is the biggest criticism potential Pro buyers have of the iPad Pro - that it's just a bigger iPad.  Deep down they wish it was running OSX, not iOS.




    Hold that thought till the iPad Pro goes on sale. I've read those comments as well. I believe that there are some people who truly hold this view. My guess is that they are in the minority and that the iPad Pro will be a hit. 

     

    There are always a small number of very talented people who aspire to have fantastic hardware. Do you recall the kerfuffle raised when Apple started reducing the number of PCI slots in Macs? There were a lot of comments about that but it turned out that only a tiny percent of people used more than one or two slots.

  • Reply 182 of 399
    I like turtles
  • Reply 183 of 399
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pmcd View Post





    Anyone who needs to write mathematical documents ( so most hard sciences) has a choice of pen and paper or something like a Surface. People have become so blinded by the typewriter that they fail to see that future note taking, not rooted in the Middle Ages, will require a lot of science and hence a lot of mathematics and hence handwriting.



    The Surface is a very nice device. Don't care for the pen and the lag but it is more useful to many than a MacBook ( which is also very nice and has very important roles). The stylus input is not just for drawing. Unfortunately business is still largely non-scientific but that will eventually change. The typewriter is not going to be able to dominate forever.



    That being said, I agree with much of the analysis presented in this article, but have an uneasy feeling about a 13" iPad. Very unwieldy. Hope it succeeds and they bring Pencil to the normal iPad. I also hope the Surface (Pro) does well. It's an interesting take on the Tablet PC and deserves a place in people's options.

     

    Your going to confuse a lot of people using the word typewriter in lieu of keyboard.  Typewriter means something very different than keyboard (at least to those of us with a certain... age ;-) )

  • Reply 184 of 399
    ingelaingela Posts: 217member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     



    USB 3 is still slow because Flash memory sticks are slow. I assumed that is the usage you were suggesting to move the data. I'm not aware of any way to network over USB 3 without ethernet adapters, but there may very well be some way to do it. Let me know.


     

    I meant by plugging into your Mac to access video files, music files and photos for back and forth editing or storage.

  • Reply 185 of 399
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by xixo View Post





    apple's hubris will not serve them well



    their arrogance has taken them far, but Steve is dead now



    Tim serves the shareholders, not the customer



    when Apple releases a tablet laptop hybrid that runs iOS and OS X everyone will marvel at their innovation



    reading some comments here it's obvious many do nothing resembling 'work' with computing devices



    keep eating soup with a fork and let me know how that works out for you

     

     

    Out of genuine curiosity, why do you say Apple has arrogance?  I've watched Apple since the 80's, and have never seen them be arrogant about anything.  Or do you equate being successful as being arrogant?  Heck... having watched all of their product releases being completely and utterly ridiculed by both their competitors and the press, i would strongly say that its some of their competitors that more accurately deserve that label.  Remember the mock funeral that Microsoft held for the iPhone.  Ever seen Apple behave that way or talk that way about anyone or anything?  

    The rest of your statements, well, aren't even worth a response.

  • Reply 186 of 399
    enature wrote: »
    I've been an ardent Apple fan and back in 2005 even predicted that Apple would lead as a tech company.

    Do you really think that will increase the credibility of the opinion you're about to drop?
    enature wrote: »
    However, now I am bearish on Apple. Daniel Eran Dilger desperately tries to trash Microsoft by backing his arguments with the past Apple profits and growth. But as everybody knows the past performance is no guarantee of future success.
    Steve Jobs said that Tim Cook is not a product guy. Exactly. Cook argued that merging a tablet with a laptop is akin to merging a toaster with a refrigerator. His naive and misguided argument just shows that he has no clue about products.

    Your first assertion boils down to: Tim Cook is clueless because he's trying to merge a tablet and a laptop.
    enature wrote: »
    Merging a tablet and a laptop is more like merging a freezer and a refrigerator. Why would you want to keep them separate? And Microsoft is precisely on the right path. While I still very much like Mac OS and use a Macbook Pro as my main laptop, iOS is becoming a joke. So Cook's desperate attempt to catch up with Surface by producing iOS based iPad Pro just further pushes iPad toward being a toaster. Apple record breaking profits won't last.

    Your second assertion boils down to: Microsoft is on the right path because they're merging a tablet with a laptop. Apple is failing because it's desperately trying to catch up with Microsoft's 25-year head start pushing Windows Tablet PCs.
  • Reply 187 of 399



    Well that's not true at all. The reason I want an iPad pro is because of the bigger screen space to work my photos. Using Mac OS X on a primarily touch device would be terrible.

  • Reply 188 of 399
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

     

    Please Apple, don't ever cater to the clueless and to the backwards thinkers of the world! Apple is a forward thinking company, and I don't believe that they should be in the business of catering to a small group of ignorant people who continue to dwell in the past. The time of the neanderthal has passed, and we must forge ahead, for the sake of all mankind.

     

    I'm talking about the people who will pop up in an iPad thread and they will write that they wish that they could connect a mouse to their iPad! Get out of town son! Are you for real? Talk about totally missing the point! 

     

    I'm basically referring to the people who wish that Apple were to make some sort of 'convertible' tablet or a dumb hybrid, kind of like the Surface. Nothing that Apple has ever said has hinted at any such device. Quite the contrary, everything that Apple has said up until this point indicates that they have zero plans to make any such device. Why? Because it's a stupid idea.

     

    If anybody desires such a niche device which is inferior at many tasks, then today is their lucky day, because there is a company that will cater to these people and they should just go and buy themselves a Surface or any of the other convertibles that are on the market. Don't demand that Apple abide by your retrograde technological beliefs.




    Ahhh, finally! A post I can agree with!

  • Reply 189 of 399
    pmcdpmcd Posts: 396member
    melgross wrote: »
    Why do you keep talking about mathematics? What's your point?

    Because most of the discussions around the use of computers is largely from the perspective of people who either type for a living or use specialized programs to manipulate video/audio. The best way I could come up with to illustrate how these activities are rudimentary(I am NOT saying that art is rudimentary or simple.) and can be addressed by virtually any system around is the very simple task of communicating science in a world where science is or should be increasingly used. The language of science is mathematics. That very simple language cannot be easily communicated using any of the so-called sophisticated devices people here are discussing (with the possible exception of the Surface devices). The i/o issue is the real issue and not the whole iOS vs Mac vs Windows debate that is going around in circles. Does that clarify things?
  • Reply 190 of 399
    pmcdpmcd Posts: 396member
    tknull wrote: »
    Your going to confuse a lot of people using the word typewriter in lieu of keyboard.  Typewriter means something very different than keyboard (at least to those of us with a certain... age ;-) )

    Heh, very funny. Perhaps it will encourage the youngsters to look up the history of the typewriter????
  • Reply 191 of 399
    melgross wrote: »

    iOS is OS X.

    No. Just similar.
  • Reply 192 of 399
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

    Your second assertion boils down to: Microsoft is on the right path because they're merging a tablet with a laptop. Apple is failing because it's desperately trying to catch up with Microsoft's 25-year head start pushing Windows Tablet PCs.

    It appears you confuse an illustration of Apple's weakness (such as the "toaster/refrigerator" case) with the actual reasons Apple is on its downward path. This thread, however, is not about those reasons. And to keep it short I only focused on illustrations relevant to the thread.

    But another example of how far Apple fell behind the innovation curve is Cook's very late attempt to catch up with Samsung on the phablet market. Back in 2012 it was clear as day that larger screens were in, yet Cook dragged Apple's feet for over 2 years before eventually bringing 4.7" and 5.5" screens to the iPhone. Again, this is just an illustration but not the reason Apple will fall.

  • Reply 193 of 399
    Originally Posted by enature View Post

    ...it was clear as day that larger screens were in...

     

    And yet Apple didn’t make a computer with bell bottoms in the ‘70s.

     

    Because it’s not about what’s in. It’s about what actually works.

  • Reply 194 of 399
    rezwitsrezwits Posts: 879member
    One thing that signals the end that is clear to me as I looked at the Surface Book, is how the Surface Book looked so 1st Generational. People fail to realize that Apple now has such a huge lead that it is so clearly over I don't even really care to discuss it.

    Here is the main reason why, that is so over looked. The iPad Pro is now a device that has the OS, the CPU and the Device itself "pretty much" completely designed from scratch by Apple. The three main factors in creating a computer are unified. This is absolute control to "get things right".

    I remembered this important fact when looking at the Surface Book and saying, this is Microsoft trying to make the Laptop and the OS, but still not the chip, which Intel does, but even Apple doesn't. But if you look at this, the intel chip is so old and so locked into what it does its pretty much such a standard chip that most of the functionality is covered, known, and learned by Apple and Microsoft, they have been working with it for about 10 years now and 20 for MS,

    So Apple has "PCs" and Mobile devices that they design and create the OS, and for the phone and tablet they even design the chip. This is unbeatable. They have 10 years experience doing this, and on top that the OS crushes Windows and Android (Linux) which doesn't even need mentioning, but that again is another factor. But designing all three of these is something NO OTHER manufacturer does that I know of. It's important, it matters. And no one really thinks about this

    Microsoft is trying to get to this point "really quick" but they are loosing money and one of their products the Windows Phone is never really even going to "surface" if you know what I mean. It's really ridiculous how over it is.

    But in the end it really doesn't matter so no one should really get worked up anymore, because people that have changed over have changed over, we are at the point where we are in FanBoy Land and Hater Land. There are people no matter how bad Windows Devices are they HATE APPLE, and it's fine, let them hate Apple and buy Windows, I am not sweating it or even thinking there is a competition any more.

    It's haters and fanboys on both sides, the products don't matter really except for those people who really see what is better and need something to work or get their specific job done, and they get what is needed. And believe me there are millions of fanboys on both camps. Some see what's in front of them and some just like the logos.

    Seriously Realists, Fan Boys, and Haters, all the companies are just trudging down the road, when they break down they'll break down, they have to get thru the billions they can squander first...
  • Reply 195 of 399
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by enature View Post

     

    Merging a tablet and a laptop is more like merging a freezer and a refrigerator.


     

    Nah, it's more like merging your kitchen stove and your outdoor barbecue grill. I may want to cook different parts of the same meal different ways (or as Apple would say, complete a single project with continuity between devices). But I don't really want to drag my grill into my kitchen or drag my stove out onto the patio; neither do I really get use out of a hob on the side of my outdoor grill, or a rotisserie spit in my oven.

     

    Each device has different use cases, and should be quite specialised at what it does -- it shouldn't try to be a jack of all trades but master of none. Yet Freezer and Fridge are not interchangeable -- you want to freeze some things at one time and others you just want to keep cool! Metro was MS' attempt at freezing and cooling at the same time -- it's kinda like putting the freezer inside the fridge. Oh yeah, I did have a little freezer inside my fridge once -- about 20 years ago. Now you're telling me it's innovative?

  • Reply 196 of 399
    enature wrote: »
    It appears you confuse an illustration of Apple's weakness (such as the "toaster/refrigerator" case) with the actual reasons Apple is on its downward path. This thread, however, is not about those reasons. And to keep it short I only focused on illustrations relevant to the thread.
    But another example of how far Apple fell behind the innovation curve is Cook's very late attempt to catch up with Samsung on the phablet market. Back in 2012 it was clear as day that larger screens were in, yet Cook dragged Apple's feet for over 2 years before eventually bringing 4.7" and 5.5" screens to the iPhone. Again, this is just an illustration but not the reason Apple will fall.

    Your entire argument is tired, old Apple-is-doomed memes:
    Tim Cook isn't a product guy
    Apple is copying screen size
    Apple is copying Tablet PC
    iOS is not a real OS
    iPad is a toy
  • Reply 197 of 399
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Apple did? I thought they discouraged physical keyboards until recently. I guess I only knew of some 3rd party ones, not realizing Apple sold them too. Thanks.

    Apple made the keyboard dock for the original iPad.
  • Reply 198 of 399

    Great article and so on it in too many areas for Apple to be worried which is a change of tune for me when I first saw the Surface book. I'm laying on my bed in my hotel room in Miami with my MacBook 12 inch retina on my lap writing this having just come back from the Microsoft Store in Dadeland.

     

    I was all set to buy the Surface Book 1TB but having played around with it for 20 minutes I have decided I won't be buying this or the Pro 4.  Why follows:

     

    1) Try using the screen as tablet only, it is too long and after a short while it gets awkward and feels heavy to hold.

     

    2) Windows 10 and the app's that MS say are touch orientated is simply not.  I tried to use OneNote in 'Tablet Mode', i.e. touch only and what a mess.  When you touch the screen the onscreen keyboard does not appear.  So I look for the key board at the bottom right but hey it's disappeared.  The senior sales guy, I was referred to him as a result of the issue, said it was because I, as was everyone, expected to use the pen only.  Since when did OneNote become just a pen, drawing application...?  I said I used OneNote a lot and wanted to use the onboard keyboard.   No not possible when in tablet mode.  So basically I said to the guy, do you not think this is making the Surface Book a very niche product if you can only use OneNote, and many many other things, with a pen when in tablet mode?

     

    3) At the priced quotes the OS and User Interface (UI) need to be slick, Windows 10 is smile not a touch UI nor is it a tablet that can compete wit true tablet designs, OS and apps designed for touch.

     

    So I have gone from yep I want one to I might actually buy the iPad Pro. In short I have done a 360 degree turnaround on both products...  Wow this tells me even more, touch before you buy.  If you want to write lots of notes because they have drawings to and can only afford one key machine then maybe a Surface Book or Pro 4 but the drawbacks I feel are numerous and this is still a niche reason.

     

    As basic laptop, $600 and a table from Android manufacturers or an iPad will serve the majority better.  Oh and I will suggest, IMHO, that the go to device 80% of the time will be a tablet.  Why, because it cover 80+ % of what we do 90% of the time, email, surfing, documents, note taking, games and so on.  

     

    So in summary I was underwhelmed when hands-on with the new MS Tablet's which was a shock.  I walked straight out of the store and into the Apple store and bought my 14 son an MacBook 12 inch to replace his Surface Book 3 running Windows 10.  I also did not end up ordering the 1TB Surface Book, wow, it goes to show you it's about the total package, hardware, OS, and software and currently that is not MS which is a shame as I was all set...

  • Reply 199 of 399

    In just 3 months after release, Windows 10 has more users than Mac OS and Linux combined.  Apple's iPad sales have stalled, leading them to copy the Surface.

     

    The reality is consumers have realised that tablets are not powerful enough.  iPad is *literally* an oversized iPhone.  It doesn't offer anything other than a larger screen.  It doesn't offer better connectivity or expansion over an iPhone, and it doesn't have a more powerful processor than iPhone.

     

    "If you see a stylus, they blew it.” -Steve Jobs, 2010

  • Reply 200 of 399
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,277member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Apple did? I thought they discouraged physical keyboards until recently. I guess I only knew of some 3rd party ones, not realizing Apple sold them too. Thanks.

    tmay wrote: »
    From day one:

    melgross wrote: »
    No, they didn't. I have the Apple keyboard that they came out with in the beginning. .

    docno42 wrote: »
    Ha - the first iPad had a keyboard dock! As in a use on a desktop dock.

    sflagel wrote: »

    Given how much @Gatorguy posts here, you'd think he remembers the bit about the iPad Keyboard......

    nolamacguy wrote: »
    the first iPad launched with a connectable keyboard in 2010.

    crosslad wrote: »
    Apple made the keyboard dock for the original iPad.

    [@]Suddenly Newton[/@], you really think there's a lack of posters correcting anything misstated about Apple here? :smokey:

    Thanks to each of you by the way. Sincerely.
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