No, the Desktop is pretty terrible without at least, a stylus. And that's the problem. The OS and most apps aren't ready for this. Not at all.
No, desktop doesn't needs an stylus. And yes, universal apps are MIA, but there is a long list of desktop applications, where OS X is not so good.
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Interestingly, Windows has almost no concessions to tough. And as clumsy as it may be, OS X works just about as well as Windows does with touch. Neither work well.
Wrong again, Windows 10 have very nice touch UI elements. Agree with you in OS X being clumsy.
1) I found the screen in the Surface Book too big. I prefer the screen size in the SP4, at least for my needs.
2) I'll love to sacrifice some battery life for a better screen in my MBA.
It would have been sacrificing at least 30% of the battery - likely 40%. Apple is not going to sell a laptop with less specifications than 9 hours of battery time.... I expect the Macbook Pro with the retina screen / skylake (when the refresh happens) to be a redesigned case which will shrink down.... eventually the Macbook Air line (as a name) will be gone - either subsumed into the Macbook Pro or into the Macbook for those that don't need the power.
Missed this one. I will try this one. Can you use all the standard applications (productivity, games, browsing, etc.) via touch fairly intuitive. Is the layout designed with fat fingers in mind, or is the area that you are regularly suppose to touch tiny and thus not easy to have near 100% accuracy during touch. If you have menus, are they spaced, can you select them easily through touch - menus for mice/stylus tend to fit more lines on the screen but harder on the fat fingers. Is the keyboard and stylus meant to be primary input devices or nice to have for maybe word processing or drawing. The benefit iPad had with designing from the ground up to be touch, is even if they did not have everything after burning down the house - it was consistent and designed around touch. It is easier to add the use of mice and stylus after the ecosystem is in place -- with new applications -- rather than having it be a weird mix of legacy applications which clutter and may never be redesigned from the ground up to be a touch interface.
I agree with you post. The nice thing of Surface is that I can run the full Office suite when I'm docked in my desk, or when I'm using it on the road. When I need to used with touch, I can use the Office Mobile, which was designed from the ground up for touch interfaces. So I have a single device that allows me to run both, keyboard / mouse UI and touch applications.
Still, my point in the previous post respoding to @melgross was about the devices and peripherals. For example, if I want to work in Word / Pages or Excel / Numbers in an iPad, I'll have a better experience if I use the keyboard, even though the it was designed as a touch device. Same as the Surface Pro. It doesn't requires a keyboard for mobile versions of Word and Excel, but you'll have a better experience with it. On the opposite, if you want to watch movies in Netflix, you'll have a great experience in the universal app of Netflix without keyboard. Long story short, adding a keyboard or stylus is based in the type of application and not in the device itself. Does a Surface Pro requires a keyboard or Pen? The answer depends in the apps you are going to use, same as iPad Pro.
I think the surface pro and book ARE better products than the iPad pro and the only thing stopping me from owning one is Windows and even then it's a pretty thin line. If the hackintosh guys can get OS X running and supporting all of the hardware features I would buy a surface pro 4 and it would replace my MacBook Pro as my daily driver. And it sounds like he has never used one, you don't need to use the pen all the time, it works fine with yer finger. I totally love apple but these editorials are becoming a bit childish. I think he needs to grow up and get out into the real world more or cut back on the boozing.
Until then, I'm getting an iPad pro to play around with.
Yep... I'm using touch screen even when I use Surface in laptop mode... with keyboard and that. It works quite fine, at least for basics - scrolling, clicking links, zooming in and out. I'm finding it nicer to mouse or pad.
Re the editorial... they seem to be a bit copy/paste these days, and quite self-indulgent as usual. I mean, even if it is Windows related, there is almost obligatory Samsung Android jab in it... can't have editorial without jabbing at Samsung, now, can we?
"Bloggers' credibility" part made me giggle. Good old pot and kettle, never gets too old.
I get tired of hearing about Surface. surface is just a small sized, and pretty expensive for the Windows world, portable Windows device. Nothing more.
So, yes, it runs most of what a small Windows device can run. But it also has all of the headaches of a Windows device. So what's so special there? I don't know of anything.
Did you have chance to actually use one daily for some time? Give it a try, if you have a chance. Some things don't look special on paper. Remember iPad - it was initially considered to be just bigger iPod Touch by many. Only when people started putting some pace on it, did it prove to be much more than just an over-sized iPod.
What I am personally finding "special" with Surface Pro 3 is that, actually, it does it all - or almost. I'm still keeping big desktop rig for gaming and some heavy Lightroom editing... though even Lightroom works fine on SP3. Was I out of PC gaming, SP3 could, indeed, do everything I need in very satisfying way.
Tablet use. Yes it is bigger and heavier than ordinary SoC tablet, but it also has bigger screen and kickstand is such a game-changer, completely negating downsides of size and weight, while not reducing advantages. Other tablets I had to hold in hand, or against my lap - which would require specific body position to be maintained as long as necessary. On the other hand, me, SP3 and sofa (or reclining chair) are best buddies - I can sit/recline/... any way I want, and still have tablet at right position without need to prop it against my legs, or keep it with my hand. Browsing, reading, comics - perfect.
Laptop use. Keyboard is surprisingly good. Yes it requires one extra "move" compared to laptop - put it on desk, open kickstand, open screen (as opposite to laptop which goes with put on desk, open screen). It might look as big deal, but it becomes 2nd nature quickly. Small price for tablet-ability. Performance is there - outside of dedicated 3D hardware, I think most people will be perfectly happy with power, and there is additional bonus of having touch-screen and stylus, for those who need this. Something most laptops lack.
Desktop use. Put it in docking station, there's whatever screen size you prefer attached, whatever keyboard and mouse. Multiple USB, lan port. Takes less space than laptop on dock or stand-alone. This alone is major reason why our customers are crazy for Surface - it does in fact completely replace desktops for virtually all of them, no perceived performance issues, fully in sync with their network, multiple screens if needed... and it still can be taken from dock and turned into laptop or tablet in 2 seconds. Take it to meeting - bring type cover. Present something walking around the room - grab just a tablet, use touch screen to manipulate PowerPoint. Have you tried walking around conf room with open laptop in your hand? Quite clumsy. Wireless display works fine with MS MiraCast stick plugged to TV or projector, or fall back to good old cable if need to. Plug USB flash for last moment changes a colleague brought to meeting but forgot to upload to SharePoint server. Change between modes with zero effort. With Win 10, OS automatically changes between tablet and desktop mode, no need to close/re-open software.
Full Office suite, full Adobe suite, full Lightroom, Corel... yes tablet mode is still in apps shortage compared to for iOS and Android, but there is some value in having all the full size, desktop apps available.
It really does all these things, and conveniently. Not that everyone will need this, but for those who do? Nirvana.
>>The more tablet-like Surface Pro 4 "lasted just shy of six hours in tablet mode."
Microsoft said on its web site Surface Pro 4
"Battery life Up to 9 hours of video playback2"
This large discrepancy is one of the major reasons I never consider a Windows PC.
"2 Up to 9 hours of video playback. Testing conducted by Microsoft in September 2015 using preproduction Intel® Core™ i5, 256GB, 8GB RAM device. Testing consisted of full battery discharge during video playback. All settings were default except: Wi-Fi was associated with a network. Battery life varies significantly with settings, usage, and other factors."
Personally, I'd like them to give best and worst case scenario.
Worst case is easy - throttle everything up to 100% and see how battery melts
Best case is tricky - I'd like them to skip useless "let machine idle and see how log it lasts" because it is completely pointless. I'd take something like off-line book reading, or very relaxed browsing a best-case scenario. Where CPU doesn't spike over 20% and rest of the time sits at 10% or lower - sort of.
Then we can approximate different levels of usage and battery we can hope to see.
As it is... new technology is really savvy, CPUs and GPUs throttle much better... but full load is still a full load.
Out of my experience... I have got 10+ hours of estimate out of my Broadwell laptop for light browsing. Simple web site, no flash or other animations - just good old fashioned text and images. Long pages, lots of scrolling but not much page loading. Evening with room light low (so the screen brightness was not over 50%). After 4 hours laptop was still showing a bit over 70% of battery. Looks like 10 hours would be achievable.
A few days later, I was working from home. VPN to office, Outlook, ConnectWise with 8 tabs, two browsers, attachments opening (mostly PDF and XLS), a bit of Word. Daylight, higher screen brightness. None of these apps are really killing CPU, but with all of them sitting in RAM, swapping them on screen, some typing, sending emails, updating some cases... I run out of juice in around 6 hours.
Then I was playing with Windows 10 3D maps... now that made my laptop quite angry... fan buzzing full speed and all that... in one hour, I was almost 30% down with battery. Presuming that discharge is linear, that would give me a bit over 3 hours.
Manufacturer claims up to 8 hours of battery life. That is a bit shorter than my best case scenario, so I'm guessing it would cover browsing with a bit more demanding web sites - some Flash, HTML5, embedded videos. Is that reasonable estimate? If not... What would be reasonable estimate here?
I wanted a tablet ever since the year 2000. I could never justify buying one because they all cost 50% more than an equivalent laptop. In 2010, Apple "disrupted" the tablet market by pricing the iPad at HALF THE PRICE of a MacBook.
Microsofties think they have the solution -- the SurfaceBook. There is no equivalent Microsoft laptop, so the SurfaceBook can't cost 50% more! Sure, the SurfaceBook costs much more than a similar Dell, HP, or Lenovo laptop. Microsoft is paying reviewers not to notice, and is hoping that consumers won't figure this out on their own.
The ultimate truth is that the SurfaceBook is the 2015 evolution of Microsoft's Y2K tablet design: a Microsoft Office/Windows machine in tablet form. Unfortunately for Microsoft after all these years, Office still requires a keyboard, a pointer, and a powerful CPU.
There is a word for trying the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.
No, that is Surface Pro 4.
SurfaceBook is really a laptop with detachable screen. Screen - even if it has most of hardware in there (save for discrete GPU) has also very poor battery life - something about 3 hours? So taking it off the base is suited for very limited, short term scenarios. That is why MS doesn't even call detached unit "tablet" but "clipboard". It should be used attached to the base, as a laptop or at least with screen turned forward - but either way, user should have whole unit in there. This is more in line with Lenovo Yoga and some other convertible laptops that can be "tableted", but are not really tablets.
Surface Pro 4 (and older) is a tablet that fulfills MS vision of tablet - one with full desktop OS. Here, keyboard is not integral part but just an attachment, and there is no performance or battery hit if keyboard is attached or not.
There are very few apps for touch on Windows, which was my point. Then, you're either forced to use apps, which for the most part, aren't all that good, but for the virtue of touch, or some of the vast majority that have no touch, but force you to use the device with a stylus, a keyboard, or both.
Of course. iOS and Android tablets started from scratch with touch concept - all apps are built with that usage scenario in mind.
Windows tablets are evolving from laptops and desktops; they didn't get clean sheet, they inherited software developed for non-touch. But... at least they have software. Photoshop not optimized for touch is still better than no Photoshop. Or Lightroom. Or Illustrator. You name it. How can having pro-grade software be downside to not having it at all? It is still much more useful for many business related tasks than iPad Pro will be when it hits the market.
Sure, in time pro software will be ported to iPads and such. But so will touch be more integrated in Windows software. At present, however... touch or not, I'd say that Surface is more - much more - productivity-ready than iPad Pro is or will be, for a time.
No one has said that it can't be used without the stylus or keyboard for simple things, or if you're willing to work slowly, or to have to poke around incorrectly. But to use it really usefully, you do need them.cthe older Sirface tablets would have the on screen keyboard cover up most of the screen. That made it difficult to use. The newer tablets are conforming more to Apple's screen ratio, as are Samsung's. That makes the virtual keyboard easier to use. But you still need a way to select items, and so you need that trackpad, or a mouse, or to bother with the stylus, which is a real pain while using a keyboard of any kind.
There are quite a few printers that work with the ipad. Many printers use WiFi, and work. All printers on a network will work. If you have a USB printer attached to a computer that is on, it will work. I have label printers on my network that work with all our computers, and our iPhones and iPads as well. There are a few label printers with Bluetooth or WiFi that will work. A direct connection isn't needed.
I apologize for the familiarity Mr. Gross. Call me Gator. That's what casual friends calls me. Or GG like others use here works too.
I've no idea what argument you're referring to me losing. You agreed it was more difficult to insert malware on a Chromebook (and every professional reviewer I found comparing OS's agrees). You apparently are talking about some other point? Which one? Wouldn't be the first time I've lost an argument as none of us including me are probably as smart as we think we are, but giving a few details to what it is would help.
The question was whether Chromebooks were subject to malware, and whether it was serious. It is suseptable, and it is serious. Less serious than Windows for sure, less so than OS X. But for something that Google promoted as not being suseptable, it's pretty suseptable. And that's what we were saying.
I am sorry, but I am trying my best. I am not attempting to confuse matters but it is a pretty tricky subject.
I certainly agree that this is a major goal and one which distinguishes the Mac from most other platforms.
[ ]
I think this might explain the confusion. You are approaching it from the point of a scientist/artist who uses the tools to help you further your work. In a sense this is the way an applied scientist would use mathematics. I am talking about mathematics as a language, a means of communication and not specific tools.
Most communication is done in English and we are largely trained to communicate that way. Obviously this is not the optimal mode of communication of a musician or an artist. One of the early goals of the Xerox Star and the Mac was to enable communication using an integrated toolkit of objects ( words, sound, pictures,...) in a natural way. This required a very different approach to i/o. So you had a mouse, built in audio, built in geometrical operations and so on... This enabled a far richer mode of communication than one typical found with ProDos, CP/M, MS-Dos which were for the most part very ascii or keyboard oriented. While you can communicate a rich set of ideas using English, it is not ideal when dealing with issues which are a combination of art, science, music, emotion, etc... This requires a far richer I/o capability.
In short, keyboard = communication via English.
While not everyone thinks of math as a language it is a very powerful method of communication. I am not talking about ramming equations down people's throats or manipulation of them. I am talking about a universal way of communicating logic, rational thinking and very complex descriptions of the world which simply would be harder to do otherwise. In order to do this you really need much more freedom of I/o than is allowed by your typical keyboard. This is where the I/o comes in. In many ways, a branch and a beach is more powerful than all the 100 page documents being churned out daily on a variety of subjects.
You must surely appreciate that the Mac allowed for richer communication than say a computer running MS-Dos? The interface and allowable I/o are key to that capability. For a very neat attempt at a human interface to Mathematica look up something that came with the NeXT. It was called Gourmet.
Anyway, this is all getting a bit too far out. My opinion is you cannot properly discuss the scientific model of nature without using mathematics as a language. Since few people are exposed to that, the level of scientific discussion is very low and not precise. Hopefully that will change. It will, unfortunately, never change as long as people keep trying to reduce complex models and issues to levels that are then discussed and conveyed using ASCII ( I.e English for purposes of this discussion). The musician, the artist, the scientist, etc... all require richer I/o. They need more than a typewriter/keyboard.
We're not talking about the scientific model of nature. We're talking about using a computer. So, we have the keyboard, the mouse, trackball, trackpad, scanner, voice, 3D input, printer, etc. this is all pretty common. You don't need math to use any of that.
Perhaps t with the Surfaceyou didn't understand my point - I'm not suggesting either the Surface Pro or SB are good, but that MS has been selling the SP as what is effectively a laptop. Every ad focuses on how the keyboard is connected and the kickstand is used to hold the screen in a very laptop-like position.
I give zero props to MS, other than for at least trying to do something instead of just watching the market pass them by, but I'm the guy who keeps harping on the fact that touch screen laptops / desktops are about the worst creation, given the shift from flat horizontal plane to vertical plane that requires arm and hand muscles be used, but just so much so that you don't push the screen away - it's ridiculous to even suggest doing this.
I understood your point. And I was giving my experience with the Surface to show why that's a bad way to promote it, because it makes a lousy laptop. That's why they came out with the Surfacebook.
Did you have chance to actually use one daily for some time? Give it a try, if you have a chance. Some things don't look special on paper. Remember iPad - it was initially considered to be just bigger iPod Touch by many. Only when people started putting some pace on it, did it prove to be much more than just an over-sized iPod.
What I am personally finding "special" with Surface Pro 3 is that, actually, it does it all - or almost. I'm still keeping big desktop rig for gaming and some heavy Lightroom editing... though even Lightroom works fine on SP3. Was I out of PC gaming, SP3 could, indeed, do everything I need in very satisfying way.
Tablet use. Yes it is bigger and heavier than ordinary SoC tablet, but it also has bigger screen and kickstand is such a game-changer, completely negating downsides of size and weight, while not reducing advantages. Other tablets I had to hold in hand, or against my lap - which would require specific body position to be maintained as long as necessary. On the other hand, me, SP3 and sofa (or reclining chair) are best buddies - I can sit/recline/... any way I want, and still have tablet at right position without need to prop it against my legs, or keep it with my hand. Browsing, reading, comics - perfect.
Laptop use. Keyboard is surprisingly good. Yes it requires one extra "move" compared to laptop - put it on desk, open kickstand, open screen (as opposite to laptop which goes with put on desk, open screen). It might look as big deal, but it becomes 2nd nature quickly. Small price for tablet-ability. Performance is there - outside of dedicated 3D hardware, I think most people will be perfectly happy with power, and there is additional bonus of having touch-screen and stylus, for those who need this. Something most laptops lack.
Desktop use. Put it in docking station, there's whatever screen size you prefer attached, whatever keyboard and mouse. Multiple USB, lan port. Takes less space than laptop on dock or stand-alone. This alone is major reason why our customers are crazy for Surface - it does in fact completely replace desktops for virtually all of them, no perceived performance issues, fully in sync with their network, multiple screens if needed... and it still can be taken from dock and turned into laptop or tablet in 2 seconds. Take it to meeting - bring type cover. Present something walking around the room - grab just a tablet, use touch screen to manipulate PowerPoint. Have you tried walking around conf room with open laptop in your hand? Quite clumsy. Wireless display works fine with MS MiraCast stick plugged to TV or projector, or fall back to good old cable if need to. Plug USB flash for last moment changes a colleague brought to meeting but forgot to upload to SharePoint server. Change between modes with zero effort. With Win 10, OS automatically changes between tablet and desktop mode, no need to close/re-open software.
Full Office suite, full Adobe suite, full Lightroom, Corel... yes tablet mode is still in apps shortage compared to for iOS and Android, but there is some value in having all the full size, desktop apps available.
It really does all these things, and conveniently. Not that everyone will need this, but for those who do? Nirvana.
I've used several versions for hours. That's more than enough to feel uncomfortable enough to not want to do it again.
Of course. iOS and Android tablets started from scratch with touch concept - all apps are built with that usage scenario in mind.
Windows tablets are evolving from laptops and desktops; they didn't get clean sheet, they inherited software developed for non-touch. But... at least they have software. Photoshop not optimized for touch is still better than no Photoshop. Or Lightroom. Or Illustrator. You name it. How can having pro-grade software be downside to not having it at all? It is still much more useful for many business related tasks than iPad Pro will be when it hits the market.
Sure, in time pro software will be ported to iPads and such. But so will touch be more integrated in Windows software. At present, however... touch or not, I'd say that Surface is more - much more - productivity-ready than iPad Pro is or will be, for a time.
Microsoft has had since 2002 to upgrade Windows for a stylus, and then, touch. But it's hardly friendlier to those than it was for a stylus back then, which is to say, not very much.
This is why they came out with Win 8. That was up posed to be the OS of the future. Microsoft stated that at some point, the Win 7 Desktop would go away completely. They had to backtrack because people hated the concept, and the way they did it. Microsoft knows very well that Windows isn't suited for a tablet, but they have no choice. RTM also failed, so they're stuck with this.
Trying to pretend it's better than it is doesn't help.
You can select files in any apps that create them, or now in iCloud Drive, in folders. You can mail them, message them, send them other ways, or print them. If you want to, you can put them on an external drive, or transfer them to Dropbox, Box, other online services or a Mac or PC.
Did you have chance to actually use one daily for some time? Give it a try, if you have a chance. Some things don't look special on paper. Remember iPad - it was initially considered to be just bigger iPod Touch by many. Only when people started putting some pace on it, did it prove to be much more than just an over-sized iPod.
What I am personally finding "special" with Surface Pro 3 is that, actually, it does it all - or almost. I'm still keeping big desktop rig for gaming and some heavy Lightroom editing... though even Lightroom works fine on SP3. Was I out of PC gaming, SP3 could, indeed, do everything I need in very satisfying way.
Tablet use. Yes it is bigger and heavier than ordinary SoC tablet, but it also has bigger screen and kickstand is such a game-changer, completely negating downsides of size and weight, while not reducing advantages. Other tablets I had to hold in hand, or against my lap - which would require specific body position to be maintained as long as necessary. On the other hand, me, SP3 and sofa (or reclining chair) are best buddies - I can sit/recline/... any way I want, and still have tablet at right position without need to prop it against my legs, or keep it with my hand. Browsing, reading, comics - perfect.
Laptop use. Keyboard is surprisingly good. Yes it requires one extra "move" compared to laptop - put it on desk, open kickstand, open screen (as opposite to laptop which goes with put on desk, open screen). It might look as big deal, but it becomes 2nd nature quickly. Small price for tablet-ability. Performance is there - outside of dedicated 3D hardware, I think most people will be perfectly happy with power, and there is additional bonus of having touch-screen and stylus, for those who need this. Something most laptops lack.
Desktop use. Put it in docking station, there's whatever screen size you prefer attached, whatever keyboard and mouse. Multiple USB, lan port. Takes less space than laptop on dock or stand-alone. This alone is major reason why our customers are crazy for Surface - it does in fact completely replace desktops for virtually all of them, no perceived performance issues, fully in sync with their network, multiple screens if needed... and it still can be taken from dock and turned into laptop or tablet in 2 seconds. Take it to meeting - bring type cover. Present something walking around the room - grab just a tablet, use touch screen to manipulate PowerPoint. Have you tried walking around conf room with open laptop in your hand? Quite clumsy. Wireless display works fine with MS MiraCast stick plugged to TV or projector, or fall back to good old cable if need to. Plug USB flash for last moment changes a colleague brought to meeting but forgot to upload to SharePoint server. Change between modes with zero effort. With Win 10, OS automatically changes between tablet and desktop mode, no need to close/re-open software.
Full Office suite, full Adobe suite, full Lightroom, Corel... yes tablet mode is still in apps shortage compared to for iOS and Android, but there is some value in having all the full size, desktop apps available.
It really does all these things, and conveniently. Not that everyone will need this, but for those who do? Nirvana.
The iPad (which I have) I had a specific use for - which it fit perfectly. Like you, and many -- I don't have one tool to do everything.... I have never been in a situation that I am want something with me 50 % laptop, 50% tablet.... and I know before I leave what tools I want. I am now primarily working from my home office, and only need something that I use mostly for consumption, some emails, very light, can watch videos / read tech manuals, and has flash cards. I ran flash cards on my iPhone but with the Thai script I found them a little small.... the same program on the computer - just not great.... iPad fit that. As a former road warrior that was on the road in hotels for 3 years straight, I valued the lightest machine possible that I can get.... especially since it took me years for my shoulder to recover from carrying two (yes two) laptops at the time (one for the customer, one for the office). It was simple, take it out of the bag then use it. I don't have a keyboard for it because I was not doing enough text entry to make it worth while, and it would be annoying to pull it out of the bag, detach the keyboard put the keyboard back in the bag every time I wanted to use the tablet..... At home, no laptop really would satisfy me since they have not up until now allowed me to hook up multiple (i.e. 3+ high resolution monitors) -- which is why I bought my first Mac Pro with two graphics cards. I also have a DAS device with maybe 50TB in it in total.
The ones coming out end of this year or next, might actually be able to handle that.... especially with the docking technology that is available -- but assuming I would go the power laptop route - the fact that Microsoft left out the Thunderbolt expansion on the Surface Book would be a show stopper.... I have not the faintest idea when it is finally starting to be added by other OEMs why Microsoft would feel it necessary to save $30 or so and leave it out of their "ultimate laptop".
It seems like you are also using multiple devices for multiple tasks -- so why would you want to compromise on any single device (at a higher price point) when you have the need for multiple devices anyway?.
It just seems like they are trying to cover a large market with devices that are compromised because they are not focusing on the use cases or the experience but in the specs and the neat gimmicky tech.
The keyboard isn't the issue. Keyboards are useful for data entry, regardless of platform. They are not primary operational interface — or rather, shouldn't have needed to be for twenty or thirty years, depending upon how advanced your platform of choice was.
The issue is whether an interface needs a pointing device or is suited to direct manipulation with fingers.
Comments
Acceptable, maybe.
No, I said "very positive".
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Yes, it does.
No, desktop doesn't needs an stylus. And yes, universal apps are MIA, but there is a long list of desktop applications, where OS X is not so good.
Wrong again, Windows 10 have very nice touch UI elements. Agree with you in OS X being clumsy.
"which [B]it[/B] what it managed to pull off"
1) I found the screen in the Surface Book too big. I prefer the screen size in the SP4, at least for my needs.
2) I'll love to sacrifice some battery life for a better screen in my MBA.
It would have been sacrificing at least 30% of the battery - likely 40%. Apple is not going to sell a laptop with less specifications than 9 hours of battery time.... I expect the Macbook Pro with the retina screen / skylake (when the refresh happens) to be a redesigned case which will shrink down.... eventually the Macbook Air line (as a name) will be gone - either subsumed into the Macbook Pro or into the Macbook for those that don't need the power.
Missed this one. I will try this one. Can you use all the standard applications (productivity, games, browsing, etc.) via touch fairly intuitive. Is the layout designed with fat fingers in mind, or is the area that you are regularly suppose to touch tiny and thus not easy to have near 100% accuracy during touch. If you have menus, are they spaced, can you select them easily through touch - menus for mice/stylus tend to fit more lines on the screen but harder on the fat fingers. Is the keyboard and stylus meant to be primary input devices or nice to have for maybe word processing or drawing. The benefit iPad had with designing from the ground up to be touch, is even if they did not have everything after burning down the house - it was consistent and designed around touch. It is easier to add the use of mice and stylus after the ecosystem is in place -- with new applications -- rather than having it be a weird mix of legacy applications which clutter and may never be redesigned from the ground up to be a touch interface.
I agree with you post. The nice thing of Surface is that I can run the full Office suite when I'm docked in my desk, or when I'm using it on the road. When I need to used with touch, I can use the Office Mobile, which was designed from the ground up for touch interfaces. So I have a single device that allows me to run both, keyboard / mouse UI and touch applications.
Still, my point in the previous post respoding to @melgross was about the devices and peripherals. For example, if I want to work in Word / Pages or Excel / Numbers in an iPad, I'll have a better experience if I use the keyboard, even though the it was designed as a touch device. Same as the Surface Pro. It doesn't requires a keyboard for mobile versions of Word and Excel, but you'll have a better experience with it. On the opposite, if you want to watch movies in Netflix, you'll have a great experience in the universal app of Netflix without keyboard. Long story short, adding a keyboard or stylus is based in the type of application and not in the device itself. Does a Surface Pro requires a keyboard or Pen? The answer depends in the apps you are going to use, same as iPad Pro.
Yep... I'm using touch screen even when I use Surface in laptop mode... with keyboard and that. It works quite fine, at least for basics - scrolling, clicking links, zooming in and out. I'm finding it nicer to mouse or pad.
Re the editorial... they seem to be a bit copy/paste these days, and quite self-indulgent as usual. I mean, even if it is Windows related, there is almost obligatory Samsung Android jab in it... can't have editorial without jabbing at Samsung, now, can we?
"Bloggers' credibility" part made me giggle. Good old pot and kettle, never gets too old.
Did you have chance to actually use one daily for some time? Give it a try, if you have a chance. Some things don't look special on paper. Remember iPad - it was initially considered to be just bigger iPod Touch by many. Only when people started putting some pace on it, did it prove to be much more than just an over-sized iPod.
What I am personally finding "special" with Surface Pro 3 is that, actually, it does it all - or almost. I'm still keeping big desktop rig for gaming and some heavy Lightroom editing... though even Lightroom works fine on SP3. Was I out of PC gaming, SP3 could, indeed, do everything I need in very satisfying way.
Tablet use. Yes it is bigger and heavier than ordinary SoC tablet, but it also has bigger screen and kickstand is such a game-changer, completely negating downsides of size and weight, while not reducing advantages. Other tablets I had to hold in hand, or against my lap - which would require specific body position to be maintained as long as necessary. On the other hand, me, SP3 and sofa (or reclining chair) are best buddies - I can sit/recline/... any way I want, and still have tablet at right position without need to prop it against my legs, or keep it with my hand. Browsing, reading, comics - perfect.
Laptop use. Keyboard is surprisingly good. Yes it requires one extra "move" compared to laptop - put it on desk, open kickstand, open screen (as opposite to laptop which goes with put on desk, open screen). It might look as big deal, but it becomes 2nd nature quickly. Small price for tablet-ability. Performance is there - outside of dedicated 3D hardware, I think most people will be perfectly happy with power, and there is additional bonus of having touch-screen and stylus, for those who need this. Something most laptops lack.
Desktop use. Put it in docking station, there's whatever screen size you prefer attached, whatever keyboard and mouse. Multiple USB, lan port. Takes less space than laptop on dock or stand-alone. This alone is major reason why our customers are crazy for Surface - it does in fact completely replace desktops for virtually all of them, no perceived performance issues, fully in sync with their network, multiple screens if needed... and it still can be taken from dock and turned into laptop or tablet in 2 seconds. Take it to meeting - bring type cover. Present something walking around the room - grab just a tablet, use touch screen to manipulate PowerPoint. Have you tried walking around conf room with open laptop in your hand? Quite clumsy. Wireless display works fine with MS MiraCast stick plugged to TV or projector, or fall back to good old cable if need to. Plug USB flash for last moment changes a colleague brought to meeting but forgot to upload to SharePoint server. Change between modes with zero effort. With Win 10, OS automatically changes between tablet and desktop mode, no need to close/re-open software.
Full Office suite, full Adobe suite, full Lightroom, Corel... yes tablet mode is still in apps shortage compared to for iOS and Android, but there is some value in having all the full size, desktop apps available.
It really does all these things, and conveniently. Not that everyone will need this, but for those who do? Nirvana.
Personally, I'd like them to give best and worst case scenario.
Worst case is easy - throttle everything up to 100% and see how battery melts
Best case is tricky - I'd like them to skip useless "let machine idle and see how log it lasts" because it is completely pointless. I'd take something like off-line book reading, or very relaxed browsing a best-case scenario. Where CPU doesn't spike over 20% and rest of the time sits at 10% or lower - sort of.
Then we can approximate different levels of usage and battery we can hope to see.
As it is... new technology is really savvy, CPUs and GPUs throttle much better... but full load is still a full load.
Out of my experience... I have got 10+ hours of estimate out of my Broadwell laptop for light browsing. Simple web site, no flash or other animations - just good old fashioned text and images. Long pages, lots of scrolling but not much page loading. Evening with room light low (so the screen brightness was not over 50%). After 4 hours laptop was still showing a bit over 70% of battery. Looks like 10 hours would be achievable.
A few days later, I was working from home. VPN to office, Outlook, ConnectWise with 8 tabs, two browsers, attachments opening (mostly PDF and XLS), a bit of Word. Daylight, higher screen brightness. None of these apps are really killing CPU, but with all of them sitting in RAM, swapping them on screen, some typing, sending emails, updating some cases... I run out of juice in around 6 hours.
Then I was playing with Windows 10 3D maps... now that made my laptop quite angry... fan buzzing full speed and all that... in one hour, I was almost 30% down with battery. Presuming that discharge is linear, that would give me a bit over 3 hours.
Manufacturer claims up to 8 hours of battery life. That is a bit shorter than my best case scenario, so I'm guessing it would cover browsing with a bit more demanding web sites - some Flash, HTML5, embedded videos. Is that reasonable estimate? If not... What would be reasonable estimate here?
No, that is Surface Pro 4.
SurfaceBook is really a laptop with detachable screen. Screen - even if it has most of hardware in there (save for discrete GPU) has also very poor battery life - something about 3 hours? So taking it off the base is suited for very limited, short term scenarios. That is why MS doesn't even call detached unit "tablet" but "clipboard". It should be used attached to the base, as a laptop or at least with screen turned forward - but either way, user should have whole unit in there. This is more in line with Lenovo Yoga and some other convertible laptops that can be "tableted", but are not really tablets.
Surface Pro 4 (and older) is a tablet that fulfills MS vision of tablet - one with full desktop OS. Here, keyboard is not integral part but just an attachment, and there is no performance or battery hit if keyboard is attached or not.
Of course. iOS and Android tablets started from scratch with touch concept - all apps are built with that usage scenario in mind.
Windows tablets are evolving from laptops and desktops; they didn't get clean sheet, they inherited software developed for non-touch. But... at least they have software. Photoshop not optimized for touch is still better than no Photoshop. Or Lightroom. Or Illustrator. You name it. How can having pro-grade software be downside to not having it at all? It is still much more useful for many business related tasks than iPad Pro will be when it hits the market.
Sure, in time pro software will be ported to iPads and such. But so will touch be more integrated in Windows software. At present, however... touch or not, I'd say that Surface is more - much more - productivity-ready than iPad Pro is or will be, for a time.
What do you mean by "selecting items"?
As in file manager?
How do you select files on iPad? In file manager?
The question was whether Chromebooks were subject to malware, and whether it was serious. It is suseptable, and it is serious. Less serious than Windows for sure, less so than OS X. But for something that Google promoted as not being suseptable, it's pretty suseptable. And that's what we were saying.
We're not talking about the scientific model of nature. We're talking about using a computer. So, we have the keyboard, the mouse, trackball, trackpad, scanner, voice, 3D input, printer, etc. this is all pretty common. You don't need math to use any of that.
I understood your point. And I was giving my experience with the Surface to show why that's a bad way to promote it, because it makes a lousy laptop. That's why they came out with the Surfacebook.
Palm rejection is reported to be excellent.
I know that you're saying all this, but you're wrong.
I've used several versions for hours. That's more than enough to feel uncomfortable enough to not want to do it again.
Microsoft has had since 2002 to upgrade Windows for a stylus, and then, touch. But it's hardly friendlier to those than it was for a stylus back then, which is to say, not very much.
This is why they came out with Win 8. That was up posed to be the OS of the future. Microsoft stated that at some point, the Win 7 Desktop would go away completely. They had to backtrack because people hated the concept, and the way they did it. Microsoft knows very well that Windows isn't suited for a tablet, but they have no choice. RTM also failed, so they're stuck with this.
Trying to pretend it's better than it is doesn't help.
You can select files in any apps that create them, or now in iCloud Drive, in folders. You can mail them, message them, send them other ways, or print them. If you want to, you can put them on an external drive, or transfer them to Dropbox, Box, other online services or a Mac or PC.
Is that enough?
Did you have chance to actually use one daily for some time? Give it a try, if you have a chance. Some things don't look special on paper. Remember iPad - it was initially considered to be just bigger iPod Touch by many. Only when people started putting some pace on it, did it prove to be much more than just an over-sized iPod.
What I am personally finding "special" with Surface Pro 3 is that, actually, it does it all - or almost. I'm still keeping big desktop rig for gaming and some heavy Lightroom editing... though even Lightroom works fine on SP3. Was I out of PC gaming, SP3 could, indeed, do everything I need in very satisfying way.
Tablet use. Yes it is bigger and heavier than ordinary SoC tablet, but it also has bigger screen and kickstand is such a game-changer, completely negating downsides of size and weight, while not reducing advantages. Other tablets I had to hold in hand, or against my lap - which would require specific body position to be maintained as long as necessary. On the other hand, me, SP3 and sofa (or reclining chair) are best buddies - I can sit/recline/... any way I want, and still have tablet at right position without need to prop it against my legs, or keep it with my hand. Browsing, reading, comics - perfect.
Laptop use. Keyboard is surprisingly good. Yes it requires one extra "move" compared to laptop - put it on desk, open kickstand, open screen (as opposite to laptop which goes with put on desk, open screen). It might look as big deal, but it becomes 2nd nature quickly. Small price for tablet-ability. Performance is there - outside of dedicated 3D hardware, I think most people will be perfectly happy with power, and there is additional bonus of having touch-screen and stylus, for those who need this. Something most laptops lack.
Desktop use. Put it in docking station, there's whatever screen size you prefer attached, whatever keyboard and mouse. Multiple USB, lan port. Takes less space than laptop on dock or stand-alone. This alone is major reason why our customers are crazy for Surface - it does in fact completely replace desktops for virtually all of them, no perceived performance issues, fully in sync with their network, multiple screens if needed... and it still can be taken from dock and turned into laptop or tablet in 2 seconds. Take it to meeting - bring type cover. Present something walking around the room - grab just a tablet, use touch screen to manipulate PowerPoint. Have you tried walking around conf room with open laptop in your hand? Quite clumsy. Wireless display works fine with MS MiraCast stick plugged to TV or projector, or fall back to good old cable if need to. Plug USB flash for last moment changes a colleague brought to meeting but forgot to upload to SharePoint server. Change between modes with zero effort. With Win 10, OS automatically changes between tablet and desktop mode, no need to close/re-open software.
Full Office suite, full Adobe suite, full Lightroom, Corel... yes tablet mode is still in apps shortage compared to for iOS and Android, but there is some value in having all the full size, desktop apps available.
It really does all these things, and conveniently. Not that everyone will need this, but for those who do? Nirvana.
The iPad (which I have) I had a specific use for - which it fit perfectly. Like you, and many -- I don't have one tool to do everything.... I have never been in a situation that I am want something with me 50 % laptop, 50% tablet.... and I know before I leave what tools I want. I am now primarily working from my home office, and only need something that I use mostly for consumption, some emails, very light, can watch videos / read tech manuals, and has flash cards. I ran flash cards on my iPhone but with the Thai script I found them a little small.... the same program on the computer - just not great.... iPad fit that. As a former road warrior that was on the road in hotels for 3 years straight, I valued the lightest machine possible that I can get.... especially since it took me years for my shoulder to recover from carrying two (yes two) laptops at the time (one for the customer, one for the office). It was simple, take it out of the bag then use it. I don't have a keyboard for it because I was not doing enough text entry to make it worth while, and it would be annoying to pull it out of the bag, detach the keyboard put the keyboard back in the bag every time I wanted to use the tablet..... At home, no laptop really would satisfy me since they have not up until now allowed me to hook up multiple (i.e. 3+ high resolution monitors) -- which is why I bought my first Mac Pro with two graphics cards. I also have a DAS device with maybe 50TB in it in total.
The ones coming out end of this year or next, might actually be able to handle that.... especially with the docking technology that is available -- but assuming I would go the power laptop route - the fact that Microsoft left out the Thunderbolt expansion on the Surface Book would be a show stopper.... I have not the faintest idea when it is finally starting to be added by other OEMs why Microsoft would feel it necessary to save $30 or so and leave it out of their "ultimate laptop".
It seems like you are also using multiple devices for multiple tasks -- so why would you want to compromise on any single device (at a higher price point) when you have the need for multiple devices anyway?.
It just seems like they are trying to cover a large market with devices that are compromised because they are not focusing on the use cases or the experience but in the specs and the neat gimmicky tech.
The keyboard isn't the issue. Keyboards are useful for data entry, regardless of platform. They are not primary operational interface — or rather, shouldn't have needed to be for twenty or thirty years, depending upon how advanced your platform of choice was.
The issue is whether an interface needs a pointing device or is suited to direct manipulation with fingers.