Apple resists MacBook, iPad Pro convergence as Microsoft struggles with Surface Windows 10 hybrids

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  • Reply 261 of 399

    You linked to a series of troll bait articles from master apple foeboy Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. Might as well look for financial insight from IBD.
    The irony strong in this one
  • Reply 262 of 399
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,286member
    paul94544 wrote: »
    A chrome book cannot run:

    A decent spreadsheet
    A decent word processor
    A decent presentation suite
    A decent paint program
    A decent stock trading
    ..
    ..

    ..

    ..

    need I go on

    All a Chrome book can do is run a browser, which basically means it can't do much of anything
    Are you talking about apps for a typical home user? Well you could go on with something legitimate then. I'm sure that most folks could find something suited for word processing, spreadsheets and presentations between Google's own productivity suite (Docs, Sheets, Slides), OpenOffice and Microsoft Office. Have you used a Chromebook in the past couple of years? Casual drawing or stock market tracking? Visit the Chrome Web Store and you'll see there's a lot more available than you apparently think there is.
    https://chrome.google.com/webstore/category/apps

    ..and yes a lot of things can be done even off-line.
  • Reply 263 of 399
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post



    Are you talking about apps for a typical home user? Well you could go on with something legitimate then. I'm sure that most folks could find something suited for word processing, spreadsheets and presentations between Google's own productivity suite (Docs, Sheets, Slides), OpenOffice and Microsoft Office. Have you used a Chromebook in the past couple of years? Casual drawing or stock market tracking? Visit the Chrome Web Store and you'll see there's a lot more available than you apparently think there is.

    https://chrome.google.com/webstore/category/apps



    ..and yes a lot of things can be done even off-line.

    I hadn't ever visited that site, thanks for the link, it is interesting indeed to see all the apps. What I think will be interesting is whether the old Windows OEMs will start to build and promote Chromebooks and ChromeOS more, given that Microsoft has encroached on what is their (previously) exclusive territory. But equally, Linux, I would assume we might begin seeing being promoted more as well, over Windows, by these OEMs in an attempt to get the public to start to think about moving away from Microsoft and Windows and the big monopoly they have in software which they're now leveraging for their nascent and growing hardware business, in their attempt to stay relevant. That's what I'd do if I were one of these OEMs, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if we see a new industry coalition that is all about promoting Linux and/or ChromeOS formed by some of these top OEMs - something like a "Tools for Schools" or "Chrome in the Home" working groups or something like that, you get the idea. I expect to see Microsoft and Windows become more a target of attacks and criticisms and comparison/contrasting marketing and promotional campaigns by their previous "partners" who must now be really pissed off at Microsoft.

  • Reply 264 of 399
    krabbelen wrote: »
    No. The "foundation" is a common set of UNIX/BSD/MACH kernals that are the building blocks of ALL of Apple's OS's. I believe "Watch OS 1.0" may have been a case of iOS handling "specific UI cases for Watch". But with Watch OS 2.0, and it's native app API's etc., Watch OS is now more of a distinct OS from iOS.

    Each OS (X, i, Watch, TV, etc.) are "colleagues", as the article pointed out. Each gets just the core, foundational modules it needs, plus Apple starts to develop a unique UI just for that device -- it's not iOS "handling" specific UI cases. How is the Watch UI like iOS, other than you can touch it?

    As far as iOS "scaling up to handle laptop/desktop use cases": by that I think you just mean that laptop/destop will get "touch". OS X already has great gesture support for its already superior trackpads (I use a trackpad with my desktop -- haven't used a mouse in years). It is precisely the hybrid notion that is the question here: Laptop and Desktop can have Touch if/when their screens can be handled like a tablet. We are not going to reach over our keyboards to a vertically set screen and touch it; no gorilla arm -- we already have great track pads, and SIRI voice support is coming along.

    As the article points out, Apple has two specialised, portable products with different price points -- the iPad and the MacBook. Presently, these utilise two distinct OS's to get the best out of each use case. MS products suffer from trying to do everything (but nothing particularly well), at a higher, premium price point. IF Apple makes some kind of hybrid device (particularly if they split or double the chips as MS has done with base and screen in the Surface Book), then Apple could also split/double/adapt the OS and have the best of both worlds -- not a compromise like MS (and maybe this is why Apple hasn't rushed one out yet). This is precisely because the foundation of Apple's OS's is the set of base OS modules from which any of its OS's can draw -- not because iOS is the foundation and "scales up", nor because OS X is the foundation and gets a touch UI bolted on like Metro; rather, each OS is a unique set of modules, both combined from existing modules and created specifically for that device.

    Good post. As you have clearly stated, a lot of commenters fail to realise that all the flavours of Apple software platforms share the same kernel and core services. iOS only differs from OS X at the highest level, where it uses Cocoa Touch (for finger input) rather than Cocoa, which caters for mouse, keyboard and trackpad input.

    Scot Forstall's presentation at the WWDC made this pretty clear from the advent of the SDK in 2008:

    700

    There may be some minor convergences (already we have stylus input in both Cocoa and Cocoa Touch), but it is clear that Apple's software strategy is "horses for courses" rather than "one size fits all" - TvOS and WatchOS have totally different requirements input-device-wise to iOS & OS X.
  • Reply 265 of 399
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

    Apple's decision under Tim Cook's direction to build iPhone 5 models for two years kept it the most profitable phone maker on earth.


    I certainly agree with you that Tim Cook knows how to maximize profits given the set of products available and those in the pipeline. He's a guru when it comes to bean counting, production chains and optimization. But he is not the one who could lead product development.

     

    Instead, Cook put Jony Ive in charge of software, a top hardware designer but with no experience in software development. Ive is obsessive about minute design features like icon colors, but then he fails to see the elephant in the room - that Apple sucks in the cloud. Big time!  And that makes using Apple products more difficult.

     

    The time came when a company that integrates hardware, software and cloud in the most effortless way for users would find the fastest growth. Apple is not that company. Both Cook and Ivy fail to do what Jobs did - making products that take the least effort to use. Sadly, I see cloudy days ahead for Apple. Appleution is mostly over.

  • Reply 266 of 399
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,583member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by enature View Post

     

    I certainly agree with you that Tim Cook knows how to maximize profits given the set of products available and those in the pipeline. He's a guru when it comes to bean counting, production chains and optimization. But he is not the one who could lead product development.

     

    Instead, Cook put Jony Ive in charge of software, a top hardware designer but with no experience in software development. Ive is obsessive about minute design features like icon colors, but then he fails to see the elephant in the room - that Apple sucks in the cloud. Big time!  And that makes using Apple products more difficult.

     

    The time came when a company that integrates hardware, software and cloud in the most effortless way for users would find the fastest growth. Apple is not that company. Both Cook and Ivy fail to do what Jobs did - making products that take the least effort to use. Sadly, I see cloudy days ahead for Apple. Appleution is mostly over.




    Ok so you're just trolling, with a new argument in each stanza of your gibberish poem. 

     

    Even if Apple were completely incompetent at cloud services, it wouldn't matter because it sells products with a platform. Anyone else can deliver cloud services for iOS, and everyone is because its a desirable platform. It has better support from more players than any other mobile platform.  

  • Reply 267 of 399
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

     

    Ok so you're just trolling, with a new argument in each stanza of your gibberish poem. 


    Apparently, any critical comment about Apple on this forum is equated to trolling. You guys need to get your collective head out of the sand and see clearly that Apple is not leading anymore.

    Apple tries catch up with Microsoft (with iPad Pro and Pencil) and Samsung (with big screen phones). And in the cloud it fails to even to try to catch up. Yes, Cook might chase profits but the goose that laid the golden eggs is not gonna last.

  • Reply 268 of 399
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by enature View Post

     

    I certainly agree with you that Tim Cook knows how to maximize profits given the set of products available and those in the pipeline. He's a guru when it comes to bean counting, production chains and optimization. But he is not the one who could lead product development.

     

    Instead, Cook put Jony Ive in charge of software, a top hardware designer but with no experience in software development. Ive is obsessive about minute design features like icon colors, but then he fails to see the elephant in the room - that Apple sucks in the cloud. Big time!  And that makes using Apple products more difficult.

     

    The time came when a company that integrates hardware, software and cloud in the most effortless way for users would find the fastest growth. Apple is not that company. Both Cook and Ivy fail to do what Jobs did - making products that take the least effort to use. Sadly, I see cloudy days ahead for Apple. Appleution is mostly over.


     

    Jony Ives is in charge of UX / UI design oversight, and he / like Steve Jobs is obsessed with the small details in addition to the overall hardware look and feel.  UX / UI designers are a different bread than software developers to begin with.  Where Tim Cook provides the business / operations skillset of Steve Jobs to the company, Jony Ives is there to provide the obsessive perfectionist side.  Yes, Steve Jobs is dead - but the core team that is there worked along with Steve Jobs for decades..... the king is dead, long live the king.  

     

    There seems to be this obsession that without Steve Jobs the company is lost and not innovative..... well "big innovations" don't adhere to a schedule, there is not a "big innovation" each year, or two, or three....  much more rare.  You develop something, plant the seeds, then eventually when you are really think it is ready for prime time you announce it.... then it typically gets a cool reception, then it gets a few revisions under the belt and becomes hot, then if you are a good company you have a few more in the cycle that may get announced from time to time.  Companys that are constantly announcing a totally new product line every year are often the ones that have no vision and are just throwing things against the wall to see what sticks.... We can guess, we can fret, we can rumour -- but with Apple almost nothing leaks out the door until it heads to manufacturing so we will never know what is being planted and what we might see as the "next big thing" until it comes down the line.  How many "big things" have come down the line in the last 2 decades.... Computers, and iPod/iPad/iPhones (2 basically) -- so maybe once a decade.

  • Reply 269 of 399
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by enature View Post

     

    Apparently, any critical comment about Apple on this forum is equated to trolling. You guys need to get your collective head out of the sand and see clearly that Apple is not leading anymore.

    Apple tries catch up with Microsoft (with iPad Pro and Pencil) and Samsung (with big screen phones). And in the cloud it fails to even to try to catch up. Yes, Cook might chase profits but the goose that laid the golden eggs is not gonna last.


    What I love best is the (charming) use of "you guys," lumping anyone who disagrees with you into a nice and tidy group that you can then attack and denigrate, so you can claim some victory.

     

    As for the accusations of trolling, perhaps a quick perusal of this post from the forums here might shed some light as to why some might be inclined to label your posts worthy of a troll's pen.

  • Reply 270 of 399
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,544member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Fast boot times, basically impervious to viruses and malware, simple to use, good battery life, light, great for multiple users...

    They have their niche.

    EDIT: Not entirely certain if you were saying Chromebooks couldn't run VM's or Microsoft Office apps? You might do a bit of checking if that's your belief.

    It's actually been shown to be susceptible to malware.
  • Reply 271 of 399
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,286member
    melgross wrote: »
    It's actually been shown to be susceptible to malware.
    Really? I get a fresh copy of the OS every time I turn it on. Now if you're referring to a malicious extension syncing from a browser on your Mac or Windows machine yes. Those are easy enough to deal with if you happen to encounter one by turning off extension syncing, turning off the Chromebook and then turning it back on. Like a Mac it';s nearly impossible to get a virus infection. Like a Mac malware sometimes comes from odd places but generally easy to deal with.
  • Reply 272 of 399
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,544member
    omgomg1 wrote: »
    Like I said you can put up all the figures you like, but the point I'm making is that Apple has serious competition from Microsoft who are finally becoming innovative and beginning to building devices that people actually like. Microsoft isn't trying to selling 20-40 million devices a quarter, they are setting a higher bar for the PC manufacturers to build better quality devices that the PC industry has lacked.

    As for the Monopoly its more of metaphor since Apple likes to walk that fine line between it.

    But I'm not the one trying to convince everyone that comments on an article that they are wrong by trying to defend it.

    You're still wrong. There's nothing innovative about Surface tablets. It's just a Windows device that's more portable than most other Windows devices. RT was something no one wanted, and Win Phone is the same. Surface isn't doing well. After three years, sales are still minuscule, at about 3 million units for the past 12 months, showing that few people want one. The excuse is that they're building reference designs. At least, that what Microsoft centric writers and sites want us to believe. The truth is that they can't sell their products. This was supposed to become a service and DEVICE company. Not any more.
  • Reply 273 of 399
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    Really? I get a fresh copy of the OS every time I turn it on.

     

    That is one big download every-time you turn on your machine -- how can it be "instantly booted on" if that is the case?

  • Reply 274 of 399
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,544member
    pmcd wrote: »
    Because most of the discussions around the use of computers is largely from the perspective of people who either type for a living or use specialized programs to manipulate video/audio. The best way I could come up with to illustrate how these activities are rudimentary(I am NOT saying that art is rudimentary or simple.) and can be addressed by virtually any system around is the very simple task of communicating science in a world where science is or should be increasingly used. The language of science is mathematics. That very simple language cannot be easily communicated using any of the so-called sophisticated devices people here are discussing (with the possible exception of the Surface devices). The i/o issue is the real issue and not the whole iOS vs Mac vs Windows debate that is going around in circles. Does that clarify things?

    I still have no idea as to what you are trying to say.

    The entire point of technology is to simplify things for us. The less we have to understand the equipment, the better it is, because the more effort we can spend doing what the equipment is designed to do.

    Back in the 19th century, and earlier, artists needed to make their own paints, and often, brushes. But that didn't make them better artists. The same thing for those making their own ink and quills. Were they better writers? No.

    My degrees are in psychology, and biology. I had a minor in physics, and two years of calculus. So I'm fairly well grounded in science. But what does that have to do with my use of a computer of any kind?

    So I have no idea as to what your point about using science means. Personally, I am dismayed that the right in this country is so against science, and the education of it. But that's another issue. And what does that have to do with the I/O of a device? Your posts are rather confusing.
  • Reply 275 of 399
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,544member
    No. Just similar.

    No, it actually is. It's just simplified. Apple has stated this a number of times.
  • Reply 276 of 399
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,286member
    bkkcanuck wrote: »
    That is one big download every-time you turn on your machine -- how can it be "instantly booted on" if that is the case?
    It doesn't have to download. It uses a process called Verified Boot to load a fresh, unadulterated copy of the OS, and authenticated during the 8-12 second boot-up.
  • Reply 277 of 399
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,544member
    enature wrote: »
    It appears you confuse an illustration of Apple's weakness (such as the "toaster/refrigerator" case) with the actual reasons Apple is on its downward path. This thread, however, is not about those reasons. And to keep it short I only focused on illustrations relevant to the thread.
    But another example of how far Apple fell behind the innovation curve is Cook's very late attempt to catch up with Samsung on the phablet market. Back in 2012 it was clear as day that larger screens were in, yet Cook dragged Apple's feet for over 2 years before eventually bringing 4.7" and 5.5" screens to the iPhone. Again, this is just an illustration but not the reason Apple will fall.

    Wake up! Apple isn't on any downwards path. And Apple didn't copy Samsung. Larger screens are inevitable, and Apple had been enlarging screens every couple of years. As Cook had stated in an interview, they were investigating these current screen sizes for years. Unlike others, Apple doesn't feel the need to knee jerk everything time something happens. He stated that processing power and batter life were issues so they waited until they weren't. I see no problem with that answer.

    It's the same thing with amoled displays. They've been put for years, but they haven't been very good. Bot bright enough, lousy color, inefficient. Unlike Samsung, they don't feel the need to rush out with an inferior technology just to say they're innovating. Now, these displays have gotten much better, even though efficiency is still worse. So I expect that we'll see it in a year or two.

    You're really just trolling here. Keep it up and your gone.
  • Reply 278 of 399
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post





    It doesn't have to download. It uses a process called Verified Boot to load a fresh, unadulterated copy of the OS, and authenticated during the 8-12 second boot-up.

     

    That is not a fresh copy every-time - no more fresh than Windows loading it's operating system or Apple loading it's operating system....  The only thing fresh is a fresh copy in volatile memory.  Verified boot is not going to protect you against all malware, only really the opportunistic type of malware....   Underneath it all it is really just linux with Chrome OS UI interface -- hard to install malware -- but not impossible.

  • Reply 279 of 399

    Damn. So much for being the Ultimate Laptop.

     

    "Within hours of Microsoft's new Surface Book landing in the hands of customers I began seeing reports of serious bugs affecting Microsoft's new flagship device, the Surface Book."

     

    http://www.zdnet.com/article/surface-book-suffers-from-launch-day-bugs/#ftag=YHFb1d24ec

  • Reply 280 of 399
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CanukStorm View Post

     

    Damn. So much for being the Ultimate Laptop.

     

    "Within hours of Microsoft's new Surface Book landing in the hands of customers I began seeing reports of serious bugs affecting Microsoft's new flagship device, the Surface Book."

     

    http://www.zdnet.com/article/surface-book-suffers-from-launch-day-bugs/#ftag=YHFb1d24ec


     

    Other sources??  I get the distinct feeling this guy likes hyping even the most minor problems to drive clicks.

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