Apple nixes plans to incorporate under-glass Touch ID in 'iPhone 8,' insider says

Posted:
in iPhone edited August 2017
Apple has decided against an embedded Touch ID solution for its forthcoming "iPhone 8" handset, according to well-connected analyst Ming-Chi Kuo, leaving the door open for competitor Samsung to debut similar technology in next year's Galaxy Note 9.


Supposed "iPhone 8" chassis blanks with rear-mounted Touch ID modules, thought to be fake.


In a note to investors obtained by AppleInsider, Kuo says Apple has "cancelled" plans to embed a fingerprint recognition solution in the next-generation flagship iPhone. The analyst left embedded Touch ID off a list of standout "iPhone 8" features published in July, but did not indicate that Apple had abandoned the initiative altogether.

It is not clear when Apple made the decision, but embedded Touch ID was one of the more hotly anticipated features for inclusion in this year's OLED iPhone release, with Kuo himself first hinting at its debut in January. Specifically, the analyst said Apple would swap out capacitive sensing technology in favor of an optical solution capable of accepting readings through OLED panel stacks. These under panel systems remove the need for a dedicated physical home button, allowing for full-face displays.

The prediction contradicts a slew of reports claiming Apple was on track to make under-glass fingerprint sensors a reality. In June, for example, Cowen and Company's Timothy Arcuri said Apple had landed at three potential options: thinning the cover glass over the fingerprint sensor area, creating a pinhole through the glass for a smaller sensor or integrating a thin film sensor into the display.

Recently released HomePod firmware seems to back up Kuo's assertions, however. Lines of code relating to the handset's "FaceDetect" software, referred to as "Pearl ID" in the firmware, show tie-ins with Apple Pay authentication. In particular, references to "pearl.field-detect" and "pearl.pre-arm" appear in a section of the firmware dedicated to Passbook payments and Apple Pay, suggesting methods of recognizing a user's face to facilitate fast access to Apple Pay's user interface.

Further, developer Steven Troughton Smith, who sifted through the HomePod code this week, has yet to find graphical assets that would suggest the inclusion of an under-screen Touch ID solution.

With embedded fingerprint readers not in play, exactly what ilk of biometric security Apple plans to use in "iPhone 8" remains unclear. Previously, Kuo suggested a two-step fingerprint and facial recognition system would replace Touch ID as we know it. Indeed, multiple sources have affirmed that the next-generation handset will sport a front-facing camera capable of executing complex depth-sensing operations, but whether the system is accurate or secure enough for protecting user information is unknown.

In today's note, Kuo notes Apple's decision gives segment competitor Samsung some breathing room for 2018. Without embedded Touch ID in "iPhone 8," the Korean company is unlikely to feel pressured into mimicking such technology in a next-generation "Galaxy S9" smartphone. This will allow Samsung to concentrate on further developing iris recognition and dual-camera functions.

Kuo predicts Samsung to ultimately incorporate under-screen optical fingerprint hardware with the "Galaxy Note 9," a phablet device expected to debut a few months after the Galaxy S9 and before the 2018 iPhone. The Korean tech giant will potentially tap Egis for both S9 and Note 9 fingerprint components, replacing current supplier Synaptics, Kuo says.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 90
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Complete BS that Apple took this decision now... Come on.
    Kuo is making me mad with his total P.O.S. "notes"; he's shameless..

    All those so called analysts right now are playing in garbage time...

    Also, about  Kuo, he should STFU, he's running at 20% accuracy right now just this year considering the long list of so called predictions.
    edited August 2017 watto_cobratallest skilRayz2016RacerhomieXMuntzpscooter63magman1979lollivernetmage
  • Reply 2 of 90
    Good for Apple. 
    Apple doesn't like shipping products that s*ck as often as Samsung does. 
    The user experience has to be great or Apple won't ship it just for the sake of shipping it.
    Otherwise there is hell to pay for the Vice President in charge of that feature [as Scott Forstall learned years ago].
    Samsung on the other hand washes their hands off of you after the sale.

    watto_cobrabshankRacerhomieXlolliver
  • Reply 3 of 90
    Steve Jobs would of gotten it done!
    edited August 2017 tallest skilviclauyycnetmage
  • Reply 4 of 90
    There is one big reason to forgo having an under glass fingerprint sensor:  It would make the iPhone much harder for a blind person to use. 
    This made it unacceptable.
    rotateleftbyteRayz2016iqatedojay-tradarthekatpscooter63viclauyyc
  • Reply 5 of 90
    ben20ben20 Posts: 120member
    Kuo has no idea what Apple will do.
    watto_cobrarotateleftbytejay-tMuntzSpamSandwichpscooter63magman1979cornchiplolliver
  • Reply 6 of 90
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 3,980member
    Then I'm out. Hate the touch ID in the back.
    rotateleftbytelamboaudi4tallest skilviclauyyc
  • Reply 7 of 90
    But, but, Mr. Well-Connected says so....

    /eye roll
    watto_cobraSpamSandwichpscooter63
  • Reply 8 of 90
    Steve Jobs would of gotten it done!
    I cannot understand a plausible sentence construction in the English language where the word "of" follows the word "would" without punctuation (e.g., with a comma, wherein it would, of course, be possible).

    Punctuation would, of necessity, render the quoted sentence meaningless. 
    edited August 2017 Rayz2016watto_cobraiqatedoRacerhomieXwilliamlondonindyfxmagman1979sdw2001mdriftmeyerevilution
  • Reply 9 of 90
    LaVar Ball would've made a phone with an embedded Touch ID.
    bb-15
  • Reply 10 of 90
    bushman4bushman4 Posts: 806member
    Bad News !!  Probably the only way Apple can bring the iphone 8 to market on time.  Hopefully the facial or Retina I.D. (pearl I.D.) that will replace it is as secure as Touch I.D. and as convenient. .   
    I'm surprised that they could get it right in time
    williamlondon
  • Reply 11 of 90
    It's amazing to me how little imagination people have. It seems so obvious to me that they made 3D face topology scanning work plenty well enough to make touch ID obsolete. Now you'll be able to use your phone without even thinking about security and you'll get all the same security as touch ID. Apple has made changes like this A MILLION TIMES. How can everyone here not get this?
    iqatedowilliamlondonfirelockericthehalfbeemagman1979flashfan207
  • Reply 12 of 90
    It's amazing to me how little imagination people have. It seems so obvious to me that they made 3D face topology scanning work plenty well enough to make touch ID obsolete. Now you'll be able to use your phone without even thinking about security and you'll get all the same security as touch ID. Apple has made changes like this A MILLION TIMES. How can everyone here not get this?
    There are huge limitations with Facial Recognition. Let me give you an example.
    I ride motocycles. The law means that I have to wear a crash helmet. In winter I wear a silk balaclava underneath that. Coupled with active tint glasses there is often no bit of my face visible.
    How would facial recog work then eh?

    Now, with touch Id, I can simply stop the bike, take off one glove and touch the phone and I can use the phone. My crash helmet has BT connectivity to my phone.

    Then you get people on building sites who have to wear protective gear and it is unlawful to remove them outside a building. So tinted safety spec would in many cases stop facial Id from working.

    We shall have to wait and see how it works in reality but I am sure of one thing and that it Facial ID is not something that I want or need. TouchID works and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
    Just my thoughts on the topic which aren't worth anything so can be ignored.

    watto_cobrajay-tfirelockpscooter63bb-15magman1979viclauyycnetmageflashfan207
  • Reply 13 of 90
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,768member
    Ol' "Well-connected" slipping and skittering like Bambi on a frozen lake. Hilarious. I'm convinced that Apple has made an internal project out of Mr Kuo: all this misinformation is coming from them. 
    watto_cobrapscooter63magman1979
  • Reply 14 of 90
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,768member
    It's amazing to me how little imagination people have. It seems so obvious to me that they made 3D face topology scanning work plenty well enough to make touch ID obsolete. Now you'll be able to use your phone without even thinking about security and you'll get all the same security as touch ID. Apple has made changes like this A MILLION TIMES. How can everyone here not get this?
    There are huge limitations with Facial Recognition. Let me give you an example.
    I ride motocycles. The law means that I have to wear a crash helmet. In winter I wear a silk balaclava underneath that. Coupled with active tint glasses there is often no bit of my face visible.
    How would facial recog work then eh?

    Now, with touch Id, I can simply stop the bike, take off one glove and touch the phone and I can use the phone. My crash helmet has BT connectivity to my phone.

    Then you get people on building sites who have to wear protective gear and it is unlawful to remove them outside a building. So tinted safety spec would in many cases stop facial Id from working.

    We shall have to wait and see how it works in reality but I am sure of one thing and that it Facial ID is not something that I want or need. TouchID works and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
    Just my thoughts on the topic which aren't worth anything so can be ignored.

    Ignored? I don't think so, but that's probably because I was about to say the exact same thing. 

    I approach an NFC terminal, and rather than touching a button to authorise a payment, now I have to hold up the phone, take off my glasses (or put the on – did I have them in when I took the pic?), take off my hat, maybe have a shave…


    watto_cobranetmagejay-tpscooter63bb-15magman1979viclauyycflashfan207
  • Reply 15 of 90
    It's amazing to me how little imagination people have. It seems so obvious to me that they made 3D face topology scanning work plenty well enough to make touch ID obsolete. Now you'll be able to use your phone without even thinking about security and you'll get all the same security as touch ID. Apple has made changes like this A MILLION TIMES. How can everyone here not get this?
    There are huge limitations with Facial Recognition. Let me give you an example.
    I ride motocycles. The law means that I have to wear a crash helmet. In winter I wear a silk balaclava underneath that. Coupled with active tint glasses there is often no bit of my face visible.
    How would facial recog work then eh?

    Now, with touch Id, I can simply stop the bike, take off one glove and touch the phone and I can use the phone. My crash helmet has BT connectivity to my phone.

    Then you get people on building sites who have to wear protective gear and it is unlawful to remove them outside a building. So tinted safety spec would in many cases stop facial Id from working.

    We shall have to wait and see how it works in reality but I am sure of one thing and that it Facial ID is not something that I want or need. TouchID works and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
    Just my thoughts on the topic which aren't worth anything so can be ignored.

    That seems like a perfectly ok trade-off. We go from having to touch a sensor over and over again every day with varying success rates to instantaneous authentication that requires no effort. In exchange it becomes less convenient when faces are covered. It's a clear and massive net reduction in overall friction.
    edited August 2017 StrangeDays
  • Reply 16 of 90
    crossladcrosslad Posts: 501member
    Certainly hope it has a Touch ID sensor somewhere. 1st choice would be under the screen, second choice on the rear, third choice on the power button like Sony phones, and last no Touch ID sensor at all. 
    edited August 2017 williamlondonMuntzxzunetmageflashfan207
  • Reply 17 of 90
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,213member
    Fingerprint scanner placement, if there is one, is purely an issue of preference. That's why why Android manufacturers dance between front and back designs constantly. You can't make everyone happy all the time.

    Many Android reviews simply state, 'scanner on the rear' or 'scanner on the front' without making a deal out of it.

    It really isn't such a big deal.
    xzu
  • Reply 18 of 90
    Don't see facial recognition working on its own at the moment. Quite a few banking apps use Touch ID to login. Not saying they can't change the app but without having prior knowledge of what Apple will be making it will mean these apps will effectively be disabled(is already forgotten my physical password!)until any form of facial recognition is integrated back into said apps. Also from a normal payment point of view, you need to touch the ID button at the same time. It might not be so easy to get your face at the right angle to the screen to unlock/authorise payment
    bb-15watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 90
    analogjackanalogjack Posts: 1,071member
    If Apple can't do under glass touch id perfectly then Samsung can't either, but then it's more important to Samsung to get to market first, I say go for it. I also cannot see how face recognition can work to Apple's standard, but I know they wouldn't screw this up, so it's going to be something pretty amazing, I'll bet. I'm sure they've got something very  trick up their sleeve.
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 20 of 90
    foljsfoljs Posts: 349member
    There is one big reason to forgo having an under glass fingerprint sensor:  It would make the iPhone much harder for a blind person to use. 
    This made it unacceptable.
    That's not even wrong.

    First, a blind person would have been accustomed to the position of the under glass sensor in less than an hour without any other cues. That's extremely easy for a blind person, no need to call in the Daredevil...

    Second, and of course for blind persons Apple can very easily provide haptic cues in Accessibility mode for where the sensor is.

    Lastly, the new design still doesn't have a physical home button, so the argument about the sensor is moot. Blind persons will still need to find the exact same under glass "button" location.
    edited August 2017 farmboybb-15mike1jensonbnetmageflashfan207
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