Mac sales continue decline in Q3, Apple drops to 5th place worldwide

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  • Reply 61 of 105
    I love macs and have used them for years. I hope to continue doing so. But when my current MacBook Pro (13") gets near its end of life, I don't know if I will be able to afford one. While I appreciate the quality, Apple needs to find a way to mac their prices more competitive. As a metaphor, I would love to drive a Mercedes, but I can't afford one. So I may have to get a nice Ford which gets the job done but without all the flash and polish.
  • Reply 62 of 105
    nhtnht Posts: 4,005member
    I love macs and have used them for years. I hope to continue doing so. But when my current MacBook Pro (13") gets near its end of life, I don't know if I will be able to afford one. While I appreciate the quality, Apple needs to find a way to mac their prices more competitive. As a metaphor, I would love to drive a Mercedes, but I can't afford one. So I may have to get a nice Ford which gets the job done but without all the flash and polish.
    Or a factory refurbished 2 year old Mercedes...

    The biggest downside is older ports with lower speed but TB3 will be around for more than a couple years.
  • Reply 63 of 105
    I love macs and have used them for years. I hope to continue doing so. But when my current MacBook Pro (13") gets near its end of life, I don't know if I will be able to afford one. While I appreciate the quality, Apple needs to find a way to mac their prices more competitive. As a metaphor, I would love to drive a Mercedes, but I can't afford one. So I may have to get a nice Ford which gets the job done but without all the flash and polish.
    And falls apart. Bummer you can’t afford one but Apple has rarely been about chasing the low end. 
  • Reply 64 of 105
    AI_liasAI_lias Posts: 187member
    So, yes, they declined, but there's an easy fix Apple can apply whenever it's needed: lower the prices some more.
    dysamoria
  • Reply 65 of 105
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 4,881member
    I love macs and have used them for years. I hope to continue doing so. But when my current MacBook Pro (13") gets near its end of life, I don't know if I will be able to afford one. While I appreciate the quality, Apple needs to find a way to mac their prices more competitive. As a metaphor, I would love to drive a Mercedes, but I can't afford one. So I may have to get a nice Ford which gets the job done but without all the flash and polish.
    Firstly I am sorry about your reduced circumstances.

    However if you do have a Mac for years, and it still works, think about how much more costly replacing a cheap machine every two years would be.

    IBM say they saved money on replacing their line with Macs. $600 over the life of the device as I recall. Also you can nearly always trade in that old machine, and there is finacing.
    edited October 2017 dysamoriaStrangeDays
  • Reply 66 of 105
    It’s sad to see this interpretation that Apple is declining. I can’t argue with facts and numbers...it seems SALES have declined. But I wonder who comes out on top if we were to conduct an effective survey of Apple product users to comparable non-Apple product users. (I know; I could probably Google it...no time at the moment) I am nearly certain we’d find Apple on top. And absolutely certain if the survey population IQ was limited to 140 or greater (there! That was a dig at my Apple-hater boyfriend). Though I’m a devoted Apple consumer, I do wish they would make their products a little more compatible with other brands. Apple doesn’t play well in other brand’s sandboxes. Other than that, I will remain loyal until they give me another reason not to be. 
  • Reply 67 of 105
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 3,878member
    I love macs and have used them for years. I hope to continue doing so. But when my current MacBook Pro (13") gets near its end of life, I don't know if I will be able to afford one. While I appreciate the quality, Apple needs to find a way to mac their prices more competitive. As a metaphor, I would love to drive a Mercedes, but I can't afford one. So I may have to get a nice Ford which gets the job done but without all the flash and polish.
    You can always get a used Mac that is fairly new and it will suffice pretty well. Just like, well you can get a used Mercedes cheaper that will suffice pretty well. I can't afford a new Mac right now either, so I went to eBay and looked around for a while and found what I wanted, which was a mid-2012 MacPro because I wanted a tower. It was originally over $3,000 and I got it for $1,000 and it included upgraded RAM so I was set with that. I already had a couple SSD's and a spare 1TB HD so I bought the adapters and put them into expansion bays. Its more than enough for what I need. Would I still like to buy a brand new 27" iMac? Hell yes, but until the day comes where I can afford one I still have the Mac I purchased which is still more than enough for what I need. 

    Most Macs are not really anymore expensive today than they were a few years ago, unless you want to pick straws and compare the dollar. Apple pretty much keeps their prices steady and gives you more technology for the same price. Also, consider what your MacBook Pro will be worth versus if you had purchased an $899 HP or something when you go to sell your MacBook Pro. 
    edited October 2017 cgWerks
  • Reply 68 of 105
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 1,278member
    Macbook Pro with MacOS awesome laptop. One issue is comparative(vs Windows laptop) pricing that common person looks at. So, Apple needs to make low end MBP with decent processor, 8GB RAM,256GB SSD at $1199-$1299 than charge more for upgrades. How, Apple can do it ? Not sure, but it can increase it's bottom base users(casual users, highschool and college kids) significantly.. Such base MBP are not workhorse but goto laptops for many considering other..
    edited October 2017
  • Reply 69 of 105
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 1,550member
    slurpy said:
    dysamoria said:
    This is not a surprise, since their software is atrophying. I mean, with the way they gutted iWork, what's the use in having a mac if you're just going to put a crippled MS Office installation on it? Apple have de-professionalized every product they have. They're addicted to Wall Street BS and repeat iPhone sales. They have no vision, no leadership that isn't just more tonerhead mindlessness, no sense of useability (slowly killing every bit of usability that drove them up to 2013)... all the compelling excellence that Apple used to be known for has been ditched, replaced with ugly flat, minimalism, bugs that never get fixed, and missing functionality. iPhone was both a critical success for Apple and the lure to follow mindless cart-before-horse business practices that are killing the mac, Mac OS, and every piece of software Apple still has left.
    Your post is 100% sensationalist trash, and from a quick peruse of your post history, so is everything you ever post. All your posts are completely negative, hyper-vitriolic rants against Apple, cementing the fact that you're nothing but a troll, without a shred of goodwill or objectivity.

    Apple products are today more useful, usable, robust, well-liked, and more successful than anytime in Apple's history.

    Apple's vision is clear, consistent, and deep, unlike their competitors that seem to "reset" their vision every product launch. All that garbage in your post is nothing but your own internal delusions, and desperately trying to fit "evidence" into your toxic and dishonest narrative.

    All this, ignoring the fact that your powers of deduction are pretty horrid. You honestly believe this has ANYTHING to do with "software"? Comparing everything vs Macs is the same comparing all Android shipments against iPhones. A useless comparison because Apple only competes in the high end segment of the market, and not with $150-$600 garbage laptops and computers (that most of these numbers make up) and $50-$200 "smartphones".

    You obviously didn't read far enough back when "researching" my position on Apple. Between 2007 and 2013, I was a very strong supporter of Apple and their products, especially Mac OS and iOS. I was promoting them to anyone who asked my opinion as a tech person and as a technology trainer.

     If I were a troll, my only aim would be to cause disruption for my amusement. To the contrary, I am anything but amused. I'm frustrated (angry, actually) with Apple's lack of attention to detail, lack of attention to power-users, lack of attention to usability... and my goal is to prod Apple into waking the hell up and returning to the brilliance of the 2007-2012 era when they were pushing the entire computer industry forward.

    While the PC and cell phone industries were resting on the questionable laurels of two decades ago, using hostile, user-hating tech-geek communities to defend the usability nightmare of computers, Apple was building and presenting computing technology that was usable to *everyone*, not just experienced tech geeks and specialists. Apple wasn't a mindless Wall Street-driven super corporation like the rest of the industry. Products drove their profit, not the other way around (as today). Apple products had some flaws, and the CEO was a sociopath, but the level of polish far exceeded the competition and the CEO had the right vision, on which he kept the company focused. The rate of OS releases wasn't so breakneck (check with 3rd-party developers to see how happy they are with Apple's release cycle). Most importantly, Apple's software was challenging competitors. Today that software is discontinued, languishing, bloated, or feature-gutted from its prior superior/competitive state. 

    Today's Apple shows no vision (or at least a very Wall Street myopic one) and no respect for the usability designs that earned the iPhone its place in history and in the market. Mac OS is just along for the ride now, and almost every change made to it is to service the iPhone business.

    Logic gets no promotion, little advancement (despite Apple having bought up audio technologies Logic users could take advantage of, Apple has tossed only one or two of them, crippled into invisible functions in GarageBand; Alchemy being the only thing to end up in Logic after buying Camel Audio), and it's suffering a GUI destruction to make it as flat, vague, and hard on the eyes as iOS.

    iWork was wrecked in 2013, mostly with the feature-killing and GUI-wrecking of Pages '09, as Apple back-ported the iOS version of Pages to the Mac instead of porting the Mac version to iOS. Apple doesn't even promote this product any more. iWork had gone from being a worth competitor to Microsoft's Office to being a freebie to lure hardware sales. What professional word processing does Apple showcase on their marketing for iPad Pro? Microsoft Word.

    Apple doesn't use the Mac in its data centers. That's all PC hardware. They don't even eat their own dog food, so why would institutions invest in it for their own projects? Yes, Jobs killed the Mac server. It was one of his several bad decisions, but he still promoted professional content creation on the Mac. Where is that promotion today?

    Do some research on the actual issues rather than stalking me to build an defense based on ad hominem attacks. Address the actual issues I've referenced repeatedly on this forum (and to Apple), rather than trying to bully me into submission to the Apple-worshipping status quo.

    I made no "everything vs Mac" comparisons as those you're claiming I've made in your defensive rant; you're confusing my comments with those in the article you're hating on. My mistake here is in making my statements as a comment on an article with questionable analysis. My comments still stand.

    If you think Apple product has never been better than today, I want to know what you were using prior to 2013 (when Apple slit the throats of user interface and experience designers via iOS 7's Droid/Windows 8-like flat, text-heavy GUI and the resulting outbreak of industry "copy the popular company even if it's a bad design" behavior). There's no excuse for the usability problems that continue to plague iOS and are spreading to Mac OS. Maybe you need to learn from someone who isn't a tech geek or an Apple crusader: this stuff is not as easy or as sensible as you think it is.
    cgWerksavon b7asdasdelectrosoft
  • Reply 70 of 105
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 1,550member
    Soli said:
    Remember when Acer was rising up through the unit sales ranks with shitty* netbooks?

    * I know, that's redundant.

    dysamoria said:
    This is not a surprise, since their software is atrophying. I mean, with the way they gutted iWork, what's the use in having a mac if you're just going to put a crippled MS Office installation on it? Apple have de-professionalized every product they have. They're addicted to Wall Street BS and repeat iPhone sales. They have no vision, no leadership that isn't just more tonerhead mindlessness, no sense of useability (slowly killing every bit of usability that drove them up to 2013)... all the compelling excellence that Apple used to be known for has been ditched, replaced with ugly flat, minimalism, bugs that never get fixed, and missing functionality. iPhone was both a critical success for Apple and the lure to follow mindless cart-before-horse business practices that are killing the mac, Mac OS, and every piece of software Apple still has left.
    The Mac HW and macOS have never been better.
    The software was MUCH better between 2007 and 2012!!! Clearly you're not using much Apple software(??). The user interfaces were much more readable and intuitive for all people, rather than serving only those who are experienced with years of tech BS.

    The design of the iPhone was MUCH more ergonomic before Apple surrendered to the huge phone fad that Android makers promoted as a way to stand out from Apple's superior designs. From comfort to controls, the newer phone in my hands (plural) is inferior to my old iPhone 4 (which needed only one hand). Ultimately, Apple put out another smaller phone but it's just a gesture to defend against the legit complaints and lags behind the rest of the lineup.

    Mac hardware was far more usable to professional content-creators and power-users in the past than today. Today, people just buy the new stuff when forced to because they've only one other Mac OS alternative, and that's a bad alternative: hackintoshes.
    cgWerks
  • Reply 71 of 105
    croprcropr Posts: 678member
    nht said:
    cropr said:
    Owning a software company, I always had 2 configurations for my developers: a Macbook Pro or an Ubuntu based  Dell XPS.   In terms of OS there is not much difference:  macOS and Ubuntu are both a great OS and both have their strong and weak points. Three years ago the Macbook Pro  was a perfect machine for the development team, but but any longer.
    The difference in price/performance between the 2 platforms has become too big to justify a Macbook Pro. Only for the graphical designers who use Sketch (not available on Ubuntu), the MBP is still a valid option.  Compared to the Dell, the current MBP is much more expensive, and has no 32 GB RAM option.  In return for this high price I get a very expensive gimmick called TouchBar, giving no real productivity benefits.  It is time Apple gets its act together wrt Macs
    A sad story.
    Most dev shops buy iMacs because at the end of the day developing on 15" screens suck.

    So both the Dell and MBP are sub-optimal machines for your task.

    The TCO for Ubuntu is higher than MacOS and every moment your devs are playing Linux IT support they aren't doing billable work.

    Don't tell me Ubuntu LTS doesn't break.  I use it nearly every day and over the years I've burned a lot more time futzing around fixing Ubuntu than fixing MacOS.  It breaks less now than before but that's not saying much.

    Plus there are very few things you can't do with 16GB as a developer and some of those that have been deemed "required" by idiots is because their devops suck and they try to run 18 VMs on a laptop.  Most competent shops have devops support that will have multiple dev strings to test with so all you need is a couple docker instances for the components you're working on.  If you need one more string then provisioning one on AWS is no big fuss.

    Finally, the touch bar is nice when the apps support it as more and more are doing but it doesn't matter because devs prefer whatever keyboards they personally like in front of one huge or 2-3 medium sized monitors.

    For developing at home they can always ssh in from one their personal machines at home. Very few won't have a decent personal rig with a large display and high speed internet.

    For travel, a couple MBPs for a travel pool work well.

    But whatever.  It's your company...it's to everyone else's advantage (except your customers) if your devops is stuck in the early 2000s.
    Who do you think your are if you, without any prove, come telling me my devops are stuck in early 2000s.  Don't tell me how tell how to run my business and to serve my customers.  It must be done in the most efficient way.  If I can control my costs, then my business, my shareholders and eventually my customers will benefit from it.  And currently this means buying Dell XPS systems (with the exception for the graphical designers).  I love Apple products, but my customers and my business come first

    Not s single developer works more than half of his time in the office.   A lot of them work while commuting on the train, so laptops are the only viable development machines.  I have large screens in the office and and in some co-working spaces I rent, so there are no issues there.

    If I look at the costs of maintenance of both systems, I am sorry to say but the Macs score slightly worse.  The poor cables of the Macbook power adapters are the culprit.  For the OS part, I said before:  there is no difference.  Depending on your level of experience, YMMV

    About the 32MB RAM, just a month ago we had a replication issue with a mongoDB cluster in production.  Our engineer could solve the issue by running the application in docker containers locally on his machine , using 26 of the available 32 GB RAM.  So that's an example.  If I buy  a new machine it should last at least 4 years, and nobody can predict that in 3.5 years 16 GB of RAM will be sufficient for a developer.  If we could upgrade the RAM of a Macbook, this would not be such an issue, but Apple does not offer such an option.



    electrosoft
  • Reply 72 of 105
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 1,550member
    sdw2001 said:
    "While there were signs of stabilization in the PC industry in key regions, including EMEA, Japan and Latin America, the relatively stable results were offset by the U.S. market, which saw a 10 percent year-over-year decline in part because of a very weak back-to-school sales season," said Mika Kitagawa, principal analyst at Gartner. 


    Yeah, that's the problem. :*   It can't be that many people just don't need a laptop or desktop anymore.  Probably 90% of non-employment tasks are done on tablets and smartphones.  I rarely even use my home Mac anymore (and older MacBook).  I use it to print things.  I have one at work, as well as a Windows laptop (piece of shit), but outside of that, I don't need a new MacBook every 2-3 years anymore.  E-mail, browsing, games, messaging, and everything outside of Excel and Word is done on a smart device.  Gee, Mr. Kitagawa, do you think that might explain the overall decline in the PC market? 

    Back to school season.  Jesus Christ.  

    This is a great point. iPad is all the computing that many people need. However, what quality word processor (or office suite) is Apple promoting for these iPads? iWork? Ha! They're promoting Microsoft Office so they can ignore iWork, which they essentially killed in 2013. Wrecking iWork takes away some reasonable argument to buy a Mac with a crippled MS Office (no Access).
  • Reply 73 of 105
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 1,550member

    cgWerks said:
    nht said:
    He's still living in 1997
    In '97, I was telling people to buy AAPL, as the naysayers were wrong. Now, I'm not so sure anymore.

    What you might be missing, is that back in the old days, the people claiming gloom and doom re: Apple were the 'industry experts' and journalists and people who generally didn't have the first clue about Apple.

    Now, it's the opposite. The 'industry experts' and journalists and people who didn't used to have a clue are too wow'd by AAPL stock prices and the big space-ship complex. It's now (at least some) of the long-time Apple evangelists who are prophesying the doom to come given the trajectory.

    Apple fanboys on the other hand, were around back then, and still are today.
    Nope. There have always been doomsayers and they’re exactly no different today. There is no concerning “trajectory”, just kickass products year after year. As an enterprise Windows developer I switched to apple gear years ago and I’d never go back to Dells and HPs, they’re garbage. 

    Apple is fine. Normals are buying more and more. The old grumps who want their ultra niche techie gear don’t matter and never have. 
    Are you actually referring to end-users and non-tech people as "normals"? Is that a compliment or a pejorative? From prior comments, I've gotten the impression that you think Apple's current usability isn't suffering, so I'm guessing you're not empathizing with the "normals".
  • Reply 74 of 105
    SoliSoli Posts: 6,179member
    dysamoria said:

    The software was MUCH better between 2007 and 2012!!! Clearly you're not using much Apple software(??). The user interfaces were much more readable and intuitive for all people, rather than serving only those who are experienced with years of tech BS.

    I just want this ridiculous comment to be kept in stone, as it were, so you can't change your comment later on when you try to backtrack on your statement that in the last 6 to 11 years that not only has SW not improved SW, it's gotten worse.
  • Reply 75 of 105
    brucemc said:
    Ah yes....fanboys....your credibility = 0
    If you can't see or understand both the positive and negative aspects of a company/brand... then you're a fanboy.

    As to my credibility... you can check my bio if you like. I've been around the Mac community about as long as anyone here. I've been a huge Apple advocate in the past, recommending their stock, and their computers/software in some pretty major companies. I've worked in Fortune 100 IT (nearly Fortune 50).

    When I think Apple deserves criticism, I'm not afraid to speak up. If that ruins my credibility.... then you're probably a fanboy.

    nht said:
    Plus there are very few things you can't do with 16GB as a developer and some of those that have been deemed "required" by idiots is because their devops suck and they try to run 18 VMs on a laptop.  Most competent shops have devops support that will have multiple dev strings to test with so all you need is a couple docker instances for the components you're working on.  If you need one more string then provisioning one on AWS is no big fuss.

    Finally, the touch bar is nice when the apps support it as more and more are doing but it doesn't matter because devs prefer whatever keyboards they personally like in front of one huge or 2-3 medium sized monitors.
    There are a number of applications that need more than 16GB of RAM, though I think Apple's argument for going with 16GB is solid in this case. Given the anticipated timeframe to move beyond 16GB, it might be reasonable for Apple to consider a special model aimed at those who need it. But, with SSD, most people can get away with 16GB, even if they need more.

    Regarding the touch-bar, I'd actually like to avoid it. Unfortunately that limits me to the low-end 13". But, yes, I'm guessing most setups of the MBP have it docked at a desk with external keyboard and input device. Knowing that I won't even have to use the built-in keyboard and touch-bar a lot *might* get me over the hump of my disappointment with them.

    StrangeDays said:
    Nuts. The imac is the mid level and it’s a kickass machine. I’m a pro software developer and somehow I do so with no trouble and in fact joy. My machine is loaded and is fast. And i’m not alone — this is exactly why they’re expanding imacs with the imac pro line. 

    But to answer your question who would buy a Mini? My dad, an entry level user. It’s fine. You’re just out of touch with normals. 
    The iMac is a nice machine if you want a the dedicated, single-use display it comes with. The Mini should be an iMac w/o the display, but instead it's an un-updated, over-priced little box. It once was a pretty incredible product. There's really no good excuse for Apple not keeping it current.

    StrangeDays said:
    Nope. There have always been doomsayers and they’re exactly no different today. There is no concerning “trajectory”, just kickass products year after year. As an enterprise Windows developer I switched to apple gear years ago and I’d never go back to Dells and HPs, they’re garbage. 

    Apple is fine. Normals are buying more and more. The old grumps who want their ultra niche techie gear don’t matter and never have. 
    Nope. The difference is that the doomsayers of the old days thought Apple was doomed because they weren't following 'tech industry best practices' (i.e.: doing what every other tech company was doing), or didn't get what made Apple unique. Now, Apple is following 'tech industry best practices' (i.e.: doing what every other tech company does) - including the fashion industry - and is rapidly losing what made them unique (i.e.: UX job #1).

    Normals are also more fickle, and we old-grumps are the content creators and people who cared about UX that put Apple on the map.

    StrangeDays said:
    Bummer you can’t afford one but Apple has rarely been about chasing the low end. 
    They went through a more affordable stage which got people interested that previously wouldn't have spent the extra money. Now they've let fame go to their heads and have started raising prices. It's their call, but I'm not sure it's a good move.

    dysamoria said:
    Are you actually referring to end-users and non-tech people as "normals"? Is that a compliment or a pejorative? From prior comments, I've gotten the impression that you think Apple's current usability isn't suffering, so I'm guessing you're not empathizing with the "normals".
    I get the impression that some of the newbies don't even know what UI is anymore. Nor, does it seem, Apple's UI designers (probably because they too are newbies).
    dysamoria
  • Reply 76 of 105
    dysamoria said:
    slurpy said:
    dysamoria said:
    This is not a surprise, since their software is atrophying. I mean, with the way they gutted iWork, what's the use in having a mac if you're just going to put a crippled MS Office installation on it? Apple have de-professionalized every product they have. They're addicted to Wall Street BS and repeat iPhone sales. They have no vision, no leadership that isn't just more tonerhead mindlessness, no sense of useability (slowly killing every bit of usability that drove them up to 2013)... all the compelling excellence that Apple used to be known for has been ditched, replaced with ugly flat, minimalism, bugs that never get fixed, and missing functionality. iPhone was both a critical success for Apple and the lure to follow mindless cart-before-horse business practices that are killing the mac, Mac OS, and every piece of software Apple still has left.
    Your post is 100% sensationalist trash, and from a quick peruse of your post history, so is everything you ever post. All your posts are completely negative, hyper-vitriolic rants against Apple, cementing the fact that you're nothing but a troll, without a shred of goodwill or objectivity.

    Apple products are today more useful, usable, robust, well-liked, and more successful than anytime in Apple's history.

    Apple's vision is clear, consistent, and deep, unlike their competitors that seem to "reset" their vision every product launch. All that garbage in your post is nothing but your own internal delusions, and desperately trying to fit "evidence" into your toxic and dishonest narrative.

    All this, ignoring the fact that your powers of deduction are pretty horrid. You honestly believe this has ANYTHING to do with "software"? Comparing everything vs Macs is the same comparing all Android shipments against iPhones. A useless comparison because Apple only competes in the high end segment of the market, and not with $150-$600 garbage laptops and computers (that most of these numbers make up) and $50-$200 "smartphones".

    Today's Apple shows no vision (or at least a very Wall Street myopic one)
    Hmm lesse...

    - Face ID
    - Touch ID
    - 3D Touch
    - True Tone
    - Pro Motion
    - wide color
    - TrueDepth
    - AirPods
    - AirPower
    - Pencil
    - Apple Watch
    - 5k iMac
    - rMBP
    - iMac Pro
    - A11 (entire SoC line)
    - Apple Pay

    ...etc. Apple is killing it. No vision. Give me a break, that list is just off the topic my head. 

    Seriously, you’re delusional. I gather that you’re some sort of software trainer with design aspirations, but your righteous entitlement to what you feel Apple owes you is one of the more bizarre positions on this site. 
  • Reply 77 of 105

    dysamoria said:

    cgWerks said:
    nht said:
    He's still living in 1997
    In '97, I was telling people to buy AAPL, as the naysayers were wrong. Now, I'm not so sure anymore.

    What you might be missing, is that back in the old days, the people claiming gloom and doom re: Apple were the 'industry experts' and journalists and people who generally didn't have the first clue about Apple.

    Now, it's the opposite. The 'industry experts' and journalists and people who didn't used to have a clue are too wow'd by AAPL stock prices and the big space-ship complex. It's now (at least some) of the long-time Apple evangelists who are prophesying the doom to come given the trajectory.

    Apple fanboys on the other hand, were around back then, and still are today.
    Nope. There have always been doomsayers and they’re exactly no different today. There is no concerning “trajectory”, just kickass products year after year. As an enterprise Windows developer I switched to apple gear years ago and I’d never go back to Dells and HPs, they’re garbage. 

    Apple is fine. Normals are buying more and more. The old grumps who want their ultra niche techie gear don’t matter and never have. 
    Are you actually referring to end-users and non-tech people as "normals"? Is that a compliment or a pejorative? From prior comments, I've gotten the impression that you think Apple's current usability isn't suffering, so I'm guessing you're not empathizing with the "normals".
    You make a lot of assumptions, and I’m gathering most of them are poor ones. 

    Normals are non-techies — you know, the majority of Apple’s customer base. They value different things than than techies on rumor sites typically do. 
  • Reply 78 of 105
    chasmchasm Posts: 373member
    Gartner has an incredibly bad track record on guessing (and that is all they are doing -- ISTR that they had to admit this at one point) Apple's sales numbers. Using these made-up figures to guesstimate Apple's success in the market is like using an ice cube to determine the true size of an iceberg. I'll be saving a copy of this graph and comparing it to Apple's actual sales figures -- should be interesting to see *how* off they are.
  • Reply 79 of 105
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 1,550member
    Soli said:
    dysamoria said:

    The software was MUCH better between 2007 and 2012!!! Clearly you're not using much Apple software(??). The user interfaces were much more readable and intuitive for all people, rather than serving only those who are experienced with years of tech BS.

    I just want this ridiculous comment to be kept in stone, as it were, so you can't change your comment later on when you try to backtrack on your statement that in the last 6 to 11 years that not only has SW not improved SW, it's gotten worse.
    What are you even saying? I can barely parse your sentence. Why would I want to backtrack my statement that software has gotten worse? I HAS gotten worse. It went from bad to better, and back to bad again.
    cgWerks
  • Reply 80 of 105
    StrangeDays said:
    Hmm lesse...

    - Face ID
    - Touch ID
    - 3D Touch
    - True Tone
    - Pro Motion
    - wide color
    - TrueDepth
    - AirPods
    - AirPower
    - Pencil
    - Apple Watch
    - 5k iMac
    - rMBP
    - iMac Pro
    - A11 (entire SoC line)
    - Apple Pay

    ...etc. Apple is killing it. No vision. Give me a break, that list is just off the topic my head. 

    - Face ID (something to benefit Apple... few of us want or need it, some will be inconvenienced by the switch)
    - Touch ID
    - 3D Touch (kind of a poor, though possibly needed UI 'innovation' if you're going to make touch-devices replace desktops... if that's needed/wanted)
    - True Tone
    - Pro Motion
    - wide color
    - TrueDepth
    - AirPods ('cause they removed the standard audio jack... and who cares about potential health concerns?)
    - AirPower (gimmick)
    - Pencil 
    - Apple Watch (a device looking for a use)
    - 5k iMac
    - rMBP
    - iMac Pro
    - A11 (entire SoC line)  (*bingo - here's the big Apple innovation and hope for the future.... in-house chip design)
    - Apple Pay

    But, it's not so much that they aren't innovating at all. It's whether they are working on the right innovations. Even more pertinent, though, are the things they are allowing to lag behind, fall away, or are actually degrading... like the software and UI aspects.
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