Apple apologizes for iPhone slowdown controversy, will reduce out-of-warranty battery repl...

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  • Reply 61 of 233
    k2kw said:
    VRing said:
    They're only doing this after they got caught, and it still doesn't help users that already changed devices.
    Pretty evident that Tim knew about this and Approved this last year otherwise he would make a Sr executive walk the plank like Forstall had to.   Remember he also let Uber get a away with some dirty stuff - never yanked them out of the apps store - just a stern talking to.   Lol.
    The problem here was/is mostly a communications problem not an engineering screwup. Tim should have signed the message. Or a note from him should have accompanied the message. 
  • Reply 62 of 233
    Apple feels the need to roll over on this one because there’s a segment of consumers that are five, and don’t get the point of the way the iPhone functions under the circumstances as explained by Apple. It’s a total non-issue, but sometimes you have to simply bow to the absurd. 
    Why is it so impossible for so many to admit that Apple was wrong here?

    There is nothing absurd in trying to figure out why your phone...which worked perfectly yesterday...now slows to a crawl after installing an official update.  This is an issue.  And Apple admitted it today.

    They screwed this up not by hobbling functioning phones with an update but by not communicating with their customers what that update may look like after installed.  They admitted it.  And now, they’re gonna try to fix it...as they should.

    Stop blaming the customer and let Apple fix this.
    edited December 2017 rogifan_newr2d2avon b7muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 63 of 233
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 3,616member
    AppleZulu said:

    knowitall said:
    Reminds me of ‘VW defeat device scandal’.
    It shouldn’t. The VW scandal was about an intentionally designed deception to criminally subvert the emissions testing process and falsely claim that these vehicles were both clean and efficient. That is entirely different from issuing a software fix to prevent hardware shutdowns that result from degraded batteries. 

    In Apple’s case, people are mostly angry over something that is a false narrative of “planned obsolescence.” Apple’s software fix is designed specifically to prevent a shutdown problem which, if left alone, would undoubtedly have resulted in more users upgrading their phones sooner. The supposed “lack of transparency” on Apple’s part is a no-win scenario. If they had issued a more detailed explanation of the power management fix in the release notes, most people still wouldn’t have read them, and if some clever person did, and shared it around, it would just as likely have been done under the same incorrect “planned obsolescence” narrative that’s spinning around right now. 

    Either way, this is not a deceptive practice, and is nothing like the VW scandal, which absolutely was an engineered deception.

    If you do a search for shutdowns on other phones, most people just replace the battery and carry on. 

    I can see what Apple was trying to do, and having read the letter I’m a little clearer on where they went wrong. They made an assumption on what was causing the slowdowns while the OS cleans house after an upgrade, and in 90% of those cases they were probably right since their fix only affects worn batteries during peak loads. But it is the 10% that is going to cause the most noise. They should’ve realised that. 

    The real irony is that if they’d just let the phones fail and shutdown then they wouldn’t be in this mess. 

    Well I say that, but of course a problem that affects other phones is only a big deal when it is discovered on an Apple device. 

    Still, a great letter. They took the hit on the chin. That’s what I like to see: when you mess up, own it. 
    pscooter63StrangeDaysmuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 64 of 233
    Just finished reading the letter, and the linked info about Lithium-Ion batteries and how things work, and I think Apple handled that beautifully.

    I also think 99% of consumers won't even bother finishing the letter, much less read the information about batteries, because consumers these days are mostly dumb, short-sighted, short-attention-spanned, bafoons who only know now about "Apple being bad and being sued" as fed to them by mainstream media.

    And I can GUARANTEE that mainstream media won't even mention a whisper of this explanation or battery tech background, as it won't jive with their pitchfork narrative against Apple, which means the BS stupidity against Apple will continue unabated.
    Stop blaming the media for Apple’s failure to communicate. 
    r2d2muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 65 of 233
    I said from day one when this first errupted this would be a huge PR problem for Apple. I wasn’t wrong. This is a good step though I agree with Ben Bajarin the $29 battery price should be permanent. Also I’m seeing quite a few posts from people saying their phone was fine with iOS 10 but when they upgraded to iOS 11 it really started to slow down. Seems there’s more issues than just the battery. Hopefully future point releases will fix these issues.
    Every new iOS version has this slowing effect in the first versions, want me to dig out the posts on iOS 4 5 7  8 9 10
    good grief, there is a reason why mass hysteria and the placebo effect exist, people have terrible memories and also good at seeing things were none exist: aka conspiracies
    quadra 610maxitwatto_cobra
  • Reply 66 of 233
    I said from day one when this first errupted this would be a huge PR problem for Apple. I wasn’t wrong. This is a good step though I agree with Ben Bajarin the $29 battery price should be permanent. Also I’m seeing quite a few posts from people saying their phone was fine with iOS 10 but when they upgraded to iOS 11 it really started to slow down. Seems there’s more issues than just the battery. Hopefully future point releases will fix these issues.
    That huge PR problem exists in your wild imagination. No serious engineer talks without getting the results of the tests, benchmarks and other analysis. And Apple is managed by a serious engineer.
    Ha, if it only exists in my imagination why did Apple release a statement? Why did they reduce the price of a battery replacement by $50? Why are they adding new features to iOS to give customers more visibility to the health of their battery? This was a huge PR issue that has affected Apple’s reputation and people’s trust in the company. You have have your head in the sand if you think otherwise.
    Apple released a statement because they’ve got the results of their investigations and they confirmed their capabilities to release and maintain a huge support campaign. This is not the first time, Apple has managed many successful campaigns like that in the past, this is an Apple tradition. Your naive claims show that you’re a newcomer to Apple platforms but don’t worry you’ll live and learn
    StrangeDayswatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 67 of 233
    kccsyy168kccsyy168 Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    Unless Apple will allow user to choose at will to enable this feature WHEN the 'symptom' appears on the iphone. This is not a good deal at all unless it is permanent. Your iphone 7 or 8 will still be under this 'feature' moving forward. They will still be slow down by the SAME hidden feature. You are still being forced to do upgrade by Apple.
  • Reply 68 of 233
    I said from day one when this first errupted this would be a huge PR problem for Apple. I wasn’t wrong. This is a good step though I agree with Ben Bajarin the $29 battery price should be permanent. Also I’m seeing quite a few posts from people saying their phone was fine with iOS 10 but when they upgraded to iOS 11 it really started to slow down. Seems there’s more issues than just the battery. Hopefully future point releases will fix these issues.
    That huge PR problem exists in your wild imagination. No serious engineer talks without getting the results of the tests, benchmarks and other analysis. And Apple is managed by a serious engineer.
    Ha, if it only exists in my imagination why did Apple release a statement? Why did they reduce the price of a battery replacement by $50? Why are they adding new features to iOS to give customers more visibility to the health of their battery? This was a huge PR issue that has affected Apple’s reputation and people’s trust in the company. You have have your head in the sand if you think otherwise.
    Because it’s easier to spend money to change the narrative than trying to fix rampant misinformation and recall the distorted narrative that’s already out there. 

    Easier , to accept you did not communicate properly and that some people may feel hurt by this error, and fix the perception issue to what amount as buying the peace. Letting the narrative, no matter how false it is, escalate further, may have damaged the brand which is far more costly. 
    quadra 610StrangeDaysentropys
  • Reply 69 of 233
    k2kw said:
    All in all it's a very good letter even if Tim is a the top of the conspiracy.

    although it would be better if this price was permanent.

    Also Android phone makers can't charge more than $29 for battery replacements - if you charge more than Apple its price gauging.
    "although it would be better if this price was permanent."

    Agree 100%
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 70 of 233
    A simple Reliability analysis on the battery component would have let the engineers know of the expected life of the batteries with a certain confidence (usually around 95% confidence). This should have been followed by an accelerated life testing to determine the age. Seems like they didn't do this proper Reliability assessment properly or discovered it after he products were launched (through extended Reliability tests and/or warranty analysis) is that's pretty dumb. 


  • Reply 71 of 233
    A simple Reliability analysis on the battery component would have let the engineers know of the expected life of the batteries with a certain confidence (usually around 95% confidence). This should have been followed by an accelerated life testing to determine the age. Seems like they didn't do this proper Reliability assessment properly or discovered it after he products were launched (through extended Reliability tests and/or warranty analysis) is that's pretty dumb. 


    Not everyone uses the battery the same, the issue is not the battery reliability  at all ( except for the batch they replaced for the iPhone 6). At least try to read the actual issue.


    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 72 of 233
    kccsyy168 said:
    Unless Apple will allow user to choose at will to enable this feature WHEN the 'symptom' appears on the iphone. This is not a good deal at all unless it is permanent. Your iphone 7 or 8 will still be under this 'feature' moving forward. They will still be slow down by the SAME hidden feature. You are still being forced to do upgrade by Apple.

    Pretty confident the battery health monitor Apple will be coming out with next month will transparently show the extent of any throttling due to battery voltage output insufficiencies.  You won't be forced to upgrade devices, but you will have to replace the battery to regain full performance.

    I do wish Apple would have designed enough reserve for battery degradation and production variances to allow the phone to simply run less and less at full power between charges like my previous 3GS, 4S, and 5, but that ship has sailed as far as the 6, 6S, and 7 go.  It remains to be seen if Apple fixed the power requirements in the A11 chip in the 8 and the X.

    I disagree with making it an optional toggle by the user.  Apple has a very good idea what the minimum voltage is before the phone shuts down.  The toggle will basically be throttle or crash if the user can select it.  I don't see any scenario where crashing would be preferable.
    edited December 2017 maxitjony0
  • Reply 73 of 233
    Rayz2016 said:
    [...]
    If you do a search for shutdowns on other phones, most people just replace the battery and carry on. 

    I can see what Apple was trying to do, and having read the letter I’m a little clearer on where they went wrong. They made an assumption on what was causing the slowdowns while the OS cleans house after an upgrade, and in 90% of those cases they were probably right since their fix only affects worn batteries during peak loads. But it is the 10% that is going to cause the most noise. They should’ve realised that. 

    The real irony is that if they’d just let the phones fail and shutdown then they wouldn’t be in this mess. 

    Well I say that, but of course a problem that affects other phones is only a big deal when it is discovered on an Apple device. 

    Still, a great letter. They took the hit on the chin. That’s what I like to see: when you mess up, own it. 
    no.   There is no irony.    If they 'just failed' then you would have 'QualityGate,' with the same 'planned obsolescence' screed, and additional branches of Apple failures:  "Their ASeries Chips are designed to randomly Fail"... "OSX 1x.y randomly crashes"  "My Apple Phone must be Hacked!"

    That would be a bigger mess.   With the same outcome... Wailing and gnashing of teeth and beating of breasts by the conspiracy theorists... (and now it would be a conspiracy... of inaction).   Calmer people  will advise "buy a new phone"  and the first time it happens most will buy a new iPhone... some will buy Android.... If it happens with the SECOND PHONE... Most will buy an Android.    Not the optimal outcome.

    Apple made a crucial error.  They didn't communicate in real time.  All they needed to do was have a pop-up like when you're phone hit's 20% battery:

    "This Phone's battery age & past usage now requires occasional performance throttling for stability and usability."

    (and you know they know exactly what their criteria is to start throttling).

    Then just place what is in this letter  on an Apple Support Page.

    No need to put it in the release notes, no major announcement with iOS 10/11 releases, other than 'implemented CPU/Power optimization for early model phones with batteries that are unable to provide full power under load"



    StrangeDays
  • Reply 74 of 233
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 2,697administrator
    Attention forum-goers!

    Please continue to have your spirited conversation. However, cease abusing each other, and knock-off the personal attacks.

    If you find your post missing, please re-read the commenting guidelines. There is a convenient link at the bottom of the page.
    edited December 2017 pscooter63muthuk_vanalingamgatorguy
  • Reply 75 of 233
    I have an iPhone 6 Plus. Bought it when they first came out. Use it everyday a lot. The battery has been one of the longest lasting yet.  

    However it wasn’t untIil a recent update, somewhere between iOS 11 and 11.1 that my phone instantly showed down. The response time for everything (home botton, app launching, interface response time, screen orientation is the worst part of it, etc..), just instantly slowed. That’s never happened before. 

    (If you want to get to the reason for my post, just go to the last sentence).

    Both of my iPhone 5 models quit holding charges after a year of use. My iPad Mini holds a 100% charge for a couple of days of no use, then goes to 0% and shuts down with all apps quit and just WiFI on. I’m a little bothered by the iPhone 5 batteries dying so quickly, but it’s my iPhone 6 Plus that was running beautifully even with iOS 11 installed that I’m wondering about. 

    If this was a result of the 10.2.1 update, why did my 6 Plus run fine as it always had until the day I ran one of the 11.x updates? I wanted to use this phone for a couple more years. 

    Im also a little concerned about my 1st gen 12”9 iPad Pro. That thing has a huge battery and a full charge used to lasted forever. Obviously iOS 11 has many more userland features (Files app), and I use the iPad Pro for pro audio content creation so with iOS 11 it’s not going to last as long (no problem, I bought the 32w charger and the USB C to Lightening cable (man it charges so fast now), I’d really rather not see it get affected by iOS 11 because now it’s really doing somebody serious work. 

    Sorry for the long post. Anyone else experience an overnight slow down with their iPhone 6 Plus after running a 11.x update? 
  • Reply 76 of 233
    Rayz2016 said:
    [...]
    If you do a search for shutdowns on other phones, most people just replace the battery and carry on. 

    I can see what Apple was trying to do, and having read the letter I’m a little clearer on where they went wrong. They made an assumption on what was causing the slowdowns while the OS cleans house after an upgrade, and in 90% of those cases they were probably right since their fix only affects worn batteries during peak loads. But it is the 10% that is going to cause the most noise. They should’ve realised that. 

    The real irony is that if they’d just let the phones fail and shutdown then they wouldn’t be in this mess. 

    Well I say that, but of course a problem that affects other phones is only a big deal when it is discovered on an Apple device. 

    Still, a great letter. They took the hit on the chin. That’s what I like to see: when you mess up, own it.
    Apple made a crucial error.  They didn't communicate in real time.  All they needed to do was have a pop-up like when you're phone hit's 20% battery:

    "This Phone's battery age & past usage now requires occasional performance throttling for stability and usability."
    Would that pop-up prevent lawsuits and trolling?

    “Service battery” notice in the Settings app already serves that purpose. If the user doesn’t know how to use the Settings app then there are established support channels. Indeed the unusual slowness is already a support issue on its own, regardless of the visibility of the “service battery” and even of the age of the battery. There may be myriads of reasons for unusual slowness: defective logic board, defective battery (not aged), water intrusion, drops, rogue processes... 

    Apple’s legal obligation to adequately service the device for unusual slowness is preemptive to any imaginative pop-ups and PR press-releases.
    edited December 2017 jony0
  • Reply 77 of 233
    foggyhill said:
    I said from day one when this first errupted this would be a huge PR problem for Apple. I wasn’t wrong. This is a good step though I agree with Ben Bajarin the $29 battery price should be permanent. Also I’m seeing quite a few posts from people saying their phone was fine with iOS 10 but when they upgraded to iOS 11 it really started to slow down. Seems there’s more issues than just the battery. Hopefully future point releases will fix these issues.
    That huge PR problem exists in your wild imagination. No serious engineer talks without getting the results of the tests, benchmarks and other analysis. And Apple is managed by a serious engineer.
    Ha, if it only exists in my imagination why did Apple release a statement? Why did they reduce the price of a battery replacement by $50? Why are they adding new features to iOS to give customers more visibility to the health of their battery? This was a huge PR issue that has affected Apple’s reputation and people’s trust in the company. You have have your head in the sand if you think otherwise.
    Because it’s easier to spend money to change the narrative than trying to fix rampant misinformation and recall the distorted narrative that’s already out there. 

    Easier , to accept you did not communicate properly and that some people may feel hurt by this error, and fix the perception issue to what amount as buying the peace. Letting the narrative, no matter how false it is, escalate further, may have damaged the brand which is far more costly. 
    What’s the false narrative? That they were throttling phones without alerting the user?
    muthuk_vanalingamgatorguy
  • Reply 78 of 233
    vonbrick said:
    Apple feels the need to roll over on this one because there’s a segment of consumers that are five, and don’t get the point of the way the iPhone functions under the circumstances as explained by Apple. It’s a total non-issue, but sometimes you have to simply bow to the absurd. 
    Why is it so impossible for so many to admit that Apple was wrong here?

    There is nothing absurd in trying to figure out why your phone...which worked perfectly yesterday...now slows to a crawl after installing an official update.  This is an issue.  And Apple admitted it today.

    They screwed this up not by hobbling functioning phones with an update but by not communicating with their customers what that update may look like after installed.  They admitted it.  And now, they’re gonna try to fix it...as they should.

    Stop blaming the customer and let Apple fix this.

    1. They weren't actually "wrong." Some folks not liking their design decisions doesn't make them "wrong." Maybe misunderstood, but it's at best a matter of semantic word play than anyone being in the wrong. Apple gave in to "the customer is always right...  even when they don't understand perfectly reasonable motives explained in plain english". And since Apple is all about making consumers happy – often no matter what, they decided to roll over on this one. Probably for the best.

    2. "now slows to a crawl after installing an official update." Conclusions drawn from assumptions. Will need to know age of phone, model, how it is being used, its condition, and exactly how many people are experiencing this. Personal anecdotes are of no interest. There's nothing here whatsoever from which to draw any conclusions.

    3. They admitted to not making something clear that they thought was already understood. Apple taking responsibility doesn't admit of any actual wrongdoing. It's a business decision. Don't read too much into it. Apple's about making customers happy, even the unreasonable ones. 

    4. Customers very often a) don't read, b) don't understand even the most basic, straightforward logic, so yeah, I WILL blame the customer in many cases. But as with children who have patient parents, eventually mum and dad will make it all better. 

    5. I'm totally not preventing Apple from fixing this.

    There is no actual conspiracy here. No "planned obsolescence" or any other cloak-and-dagger nonsense. Planned obsolescence does not sell new iPhones. New iPhones sell new iPhones. 

    They implemented a feature they thought made sense, and which they sincerely believed consumers would benefit from. They then went on to explain it, and given its logic, believed consumers would understand and appreciate same. It turned out differently, but not because of any nefarious activity. 
    edited December 2017 StrangeDaysjony0
  • Reply 79 of 233
    I have an iPhone 6 Plus. Bought it when they first came out. Use it everyday a lot. The battery has been one of the longest lasting yet.  

    However it wasn’t untIil a recent update, somewhere between iOS 11 and 11.1 that my phone instantly showed down. The response time for everything (home botton, app launching, interface response time, screen orientation is the worst part of it, etc..), just instantly slowed. That’s never happened before. 

    (If you want to get to the reason for my post, just go to the last sentence).

    Both of my iPhone 5 models quit holding charges after a year of use. My iPad Mini holds a 100% charge for a couple of days of no use, then goes to 0% and shuts down with all apps quit and just WiFI on. I’m a little bothered by the iPhone 5 batteries dying so quickly, but it’s my iPhone 6 Plus that was running beautifully even with iOS 11 installed that I’m wondering about. 

    If this was a result of the 10.2.1 update, why did my 6 Plus run fine as it always had until the day I ran one of the 11.x updates? I wanted to use this phone for a couple more years. 

    Im also a little concerned about my 1st gen 12”9 iPad Pro. That thing has a huge battery and a full charge used to lasted forever. Obviously iOS 11 has many more userland features (Files app), and I use the iPad Pro for pro audio content creation so with iOS 11 it’s not going to last as long (no problem, I bought the 32w charger and the USB C to Lightening cable (man it charges so fast now), I’d really rather not see it get affected by iOS 11 because now it’s really doing somebody serious work. 

    Sorry for the long post. Anyone else experience an overnight slow down with their iPhone 6 Plus after running a 11.x update? 

    The 10.2.1 update introduced throttling but it didn't actually affect phones unless their battery couldn't supply the required voltage under high load.  My guess with your phone is the battery hit that threshold while it was installing the 11.X update and your phone is now being throttled while it wasn't before.  Not entirely a coincidence, just the luck of the draw as to when your battery finally fell below acceptable performance.

    Wait until the battery health monitor comes out next month and see what it says.  If your battery has degraded then take advantage of Apple's $29 replacement offer and you should be good for at least another year or maybe two depending on when Apple drops the 6 from iOS updates.  If the battery is fine then possibly something is corrupt and a phone restore is in order.  In any event the 6 should be perfectly serviceable now unless it is being throttled.
    muthuk_vanalingamentropys
  • Reply 80 of 233
    This is completely unbelievable! What Apple did is a crime. Now they are offering slight discounts, for getting caught. What about those who bought new iPhones under false pretenses. It's like sorry sir/mam for mugging you and robbing you of your belongings. Pay us $50 and We will give you back $29 of the $700 we took from you. How messed up is that. #logic. Fire Tim Cook, give us edge to edge screen laptops, thin, with both USB ports, 3 and c. that can induction charge.  Quit playing around, and give / unleash the tech. I am a user, but no longer a fan.
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