Apple apologizes for iPhone slowdown controversy, will reduce out-of-warranty battery repl...

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  • Reply 101 of 233
    dewmedewme Posts: 1,802member
    ZooMigo said:
    So I guess Dodge should give me a one time replacement of brakes, wipers, clutch plates, batteries, and everything else that's a wearable item on my car? Its a fucking wearable item! Why does Apple need to give anyone a onetime exception to replace a battery on an older phone with a lets say it together...wearable item? 
    Dodge won't put your car into limp mode when it detects any wear item is reaching end of life. If Dodge did what Apple did, and decided to limit your car to 35 MPH if it detects worn brakes, refuses to start if its dark and it detects a bad light, or won't let you put it in 4WD if you haven't changed your diff oil as recommended then you might have an argument.
    BMW will put your car into limp mode if it detects a condition that its designers feel could leave you broke down and stranded on the side of the road. The fact that Dodge doesn’t provide any kind of wear compensation is not a feature, it’s a limitation and lack of sophisticated, considerate design. 
    pscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 102 of 233
    foggyhill said:
    A simple Reliability analysis on the battery component would have let the engineers know of the expected life of the batteries with a certain confidence (usually around 95% confidence). This should have been followed by an accelerated life testing to determine the age. Seems like they didn't do this proper Reliability assessment properly or discovered it after he products were launched (through extended Reliability tests and/or warranty analysis) is that's pretty dumb. 


    Not everyone uses the battery the same, the issue is not the battery reliability  at all ( except for the batch they replaced for the iPhone 6). At least try to read the actual issue.


    One can make a fairly good predictive model on the analytical data to predict usage with a fair amount of certainty. Obviously, it isn't a 100% accurate model of the usage pattern, but from a pure reliability engineering standpoint, I'd accept a model that's even 80% accurate to aim for a reliability estimation of the usage. 

    Their reliability Engineering team needs to be fired for this fiasco. Guess they relied on the vendors assessment of Reliability estimation (and ask any experienced Reliability engineer and he will never accept a MTBF/MTTF number from a vendor and will perform their own analysis and testing). I know this from my current job in medical devices where we are required to predict battery life for lifesaving medical devices that we design. 
    You don’t design computers.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 103 of 233
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    foggyhill said:
    A simple Reliability analysis on the battery component would have let the engineers know of the expected life of the batteries with a certain confidence (usually around 95% confidence). This should have been followed by an accelerated life testing to determine the age. Seems like they didn't do this proper Reliability assessment properly or discovered it after he products were launched (through extended Reliability tests and/or warranty analysis) is that's pretty dumb. 


    Not everyone uses the battery the same, the issue is not the battery reliability  at all ( except for the batch they replaced for the iPhone 6). At least try to read the actual issue.


    One can make a fairly good predictive model on the analytical data to predict usage with a fair amount of certainty. Obviously, it isn't a 100% accurate model of the usage pattern, but from a pure reliability engineering standpoint, I'd accept a model that's even 80% accurate to aim for a reliability estimation of the usage. 

    Their reliability Engineering team needs to be fired for this fiasco. Guess they relied on the vendors assessment of Reliability estimation (and ask any experienced Reliability engineer and he will never accept a MTBF/MTTF number from a vendor and will perform their own analysis and testing). I know this from my current job in medical devices where we are required to predict battery life for lifesaving medical devices that we design. 
    Hey buddy, got 30 years of computer engineering behind me (graduated from Polytechnique) so stop trying to be clever.
    Everything you say is irrelevant. This has NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIABILITY. Actually read about the issue or stop posting about it.
    You are the epitome of the low information commenter.

    BTW, a medical device's range of use is way way way way more constricted than a consumer device in the hands of hundreds of millions (that goes without saying).
    You can have people playing AA games all day long while others only use their phone to call and text.
    This device which also has the power of a laptop with a battery 1/5 the size..
    The peak usage of the latest A SOC's demand a lot more from the battery than in any other device that size.
    Top of the line Androids have barely caught up single core performance of the A9 (the one in the 6s).

    Not to mention that things like device size are key selling point that consumer actually want runs counter to provide a big battery.
    Its not just Apple that wants a smaller battery, it's the consumer too. That the consumer doesn't quite understand the implication of this is pretty clear.

    Also, even if only 5% of buyers are very heavy users who charges their device fully twice a day (0-10% to 100%), a lithium battery will be close to worn after 12 months (depending on ambient temp of use).

    Those lets say 5% of users   (could be a higher or lower percentage), probably the most techies of users, are in the millions and they're likely some of the most active online. The result is predictable. Their voice will be heard all over social media. The fact is that other than changing the battery, Apple can't do much for these users other than keeping their phones from not functioning at all, which they did. I sure  The fact that they're heavy phone users means they've probably had early battery replacements in the past (cause otherwise their other phone would also be dead).

    Should Apple actually spec their battery so those heavy users can use their phones for 2 years? Or will they more reasonably make sure 90% of their users can reach 2 years without changing batteries.

    edited December 2017 quadra 610StrangeDaysGG1pscooter63
  • Reply 104 of 233
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    AI_lias said:
    foggyhill said:
    AI_lias said:
    Everyone on here that said Apple did nothing wrong, should keep paying $80 for their battery replacements.
    Paying $80 bucks after you recharged your battery 800 times is NORMAL unless you think Apple should pay for god damn tires if they sold a car hey logic boy.

    So, go away troll, buy a Note 8 or S8 which dies quick and dirty and doesn't come back.
     


    Exactly my point, people like you should keep paying $80.
    So, basically you are a little child who doesn't know the cost and value anything. Lithium battery has 800-1000 full cycles before crapping out (at the best of times). That's it.
    If you can't afford to spend money on anything, stay away from stores.
    quadra 610StrangeDays
  • Reply 105 of 233
    raclark77raclark77 Posts: 2unconfirmed, member
    If they had told people what they were doing before just slowing peoples phones down without their consent it would be different.

    This action is tantamount to malware being pushed out as a software update. More reason to NOT trust company updates.

    And now to restore the device to previous conditions the user must pay for a new battery?! How is this not equal to randsomware?! Having to spend money that had not been planned on being spent until this is basically extortion.

    At $29 a pop just how many millions will this make them?! This is outrageous, and just laughable that some of the people commenting here are just fine with this as it is.

    This just happened to slow down old devices at the exact same time as new Apple phones being sold too! This is too much of a coincidence to be a coincidence.

    I feel Apple has overstepped with this whole situation. The price reduction on a maintenance that wasn't needed until their actions is not a fix of any kind.

    As it stands now, I have no plans to buy anything Apple again. Microsoft, and Apple both are making some boneheaded decisions lately. I almost think they might just be the same company secretly.

    They were caught red handed. Me paying them for their actions is not going to make me feel any better about this in any way.

    If this was all fine, then why was it secretly/silently done?
    edited December 2017 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 106 of 233
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 3,725administrator
    foggyhill said:
    AI_lias said:
    foggyhill said:
    AI_lias said:
    Everyone on here that said Apple did nothing wrong, should keep paying $80 for their battery replacements.
    Paying $80 bucks after you recharged your battery 800 times is NORMAL unless you think Apple should pay for god damn tires if they sold a car hey logic boy.

    So, go away troll, buy a Note 8 or S8 which dies quick and dirty and doesn't come back.
     


    Exactly my point, people like you should keep paying $80.
    So, basically you are a little child who doesn't know the cost and value anything. Lithium battery has 800-1000 full cycles before crapping out (at the best of times). That's it.
    If you can't afford to spend money on anything, stay away from stores.
    Physically smaller batteries probably have less, even in the best case. Not even including leaving it in your freezing car overnight, roasting it on your dashboard, et cetera.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 107 of 233
    ZooMigo said:
    So I guess Dodge should give me a one time replacement of brakes, wipers, clutch plates, batteries, and everything else that's a wearable item on my car? Its a fucking wearable item! Why does Apple need to give anyone a onetime exception to replace a battery on an older phone with a lets say it together...wearable item? 
    Dodge won't put your car into limp mode when it detects any wear item is reaching end of life. If Dodge did what Apple did, and decided to limit your car to 35 MPH if it detects worn brakes, refuses to start if its dark and it detects a bad light, or won't let you put it in 4WD if you haven't changed your diff oil as recommended then you might have an argument.
    Given the choice, I’d rather have a car that could detect a possible engine stall and slow me down to 35mph and keep going, rather than a car that would let the engine seize up while I’m going 80, likely causing a fatal end of my trip. But you know, that’s just a personal preference.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 108 of 233
    raclark77raclark77 Posts: 2unconfirmed, member
    AppleZulu said:
    ZooMigo said:
    So I guess Dodge should give me a one time replacement of brakes, wipers, clutch plates, batteries, and everything else that's a wearable item on my car? Its a fucking wearable item! Why does Apple need to give anyone a onetime exception to replace a battery on an older phone with a lets say it together...wearable item? 
    Dodge won't put your car into limp mode when it detects any wear item is reaching end of life. If Dodge did what Apple did, and decided to limit your car to 35 MPH if it detects worn brakes, refuses to start if its dark and it detects a bad light, or won't let you put it in 4WD if you haven't changed your diff oil as recommended then you might have an argument.
    Given the choice, I’d rather have a car that could detect a possible engine stall and slow me down to 35mph and keep going, rather than a car that would let the engine seize up while I’m going 80, likely causing a fatal end of my trip. But you know, that’s just a personal preference.
    It's also great when you can change your own cars battery too. Unlike with these phones with a sealed battery forcing paid maintanice. This is the same as if the car had to go the dealer for a battery change. That would upset people too.
  • Reply 109 of 233
    eightzero said:
    I'd like a $29 battery replacement for my Apple Watch. Because it sure seems like it is dying too.
    If you have an old AW with an old, used up battery, why don’t you get it serviced? Nobody is entitled to free batteries just because. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 110 of 233

    I said from day one when this first errupted this would be a huge PR problem for Apple. I wasn’t wrong. This is a good step though I agree with Ben Bajarin the $29 battery price should be permanent. Also I’m seeing quite a few posts from people saying their phone was fine with iOS 10 but when they upgraded to iOS 11 it really started to slow down. Seems there’s more issues than just the battery. Hopefully future point releases will fix these issues.
    Hmmm, which part of “new software makes old hardware work harder” don’t you understand? Are you new to computing?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 111 of 233
    raclark77 said:
    If they had told people what they were doing before just slowing peoples phones down without their consent it would be different.

    This action is tantamount to malware being pushed out as a software update. More reason to NOT trust company updates.

    And now to restore the device to previous conditions the user must pay for a new battery?! How is this not equal to randsomware?! Having to spend money that had not been planned on being spent until this is basically extortion.

    At $29 a pop just how many millions will this make them?! This is outrageous, and just laughable that some of the people commenting here are just fine with this as it is.

    This just happened to slow down old devices at the exact same time as new Apple phones being sold too! This is too much of a coincidence to be a coincidence.

    I feel Apple has overstepped with this whole situation. The price reduction on a maintenance that wasn't needed until their actions is not a fix of any kind.

    As it stands now, I have no plans to buy anything Apple again. Microsoft, and Apple both are making some boneheaded decisions lately. I almost think they might just be the same company secretly.

    They were caught red handed. Me paying them for their actions is not going to make me feel any better about this in any way.

    If this was all fine, then why was it secretly/silently done?
    Aw, C'MON!!!  This argument is laughable.  Malware?  Really???  Malware would be Apple putting on a daemon into everyone's phone that would mine cryptocurrency for them.  They were trying to extend the life of the product (since most people never change their batteries) by slowing the CPU down in order to avoid abrupt shutdowns.  And people are now keeping their phones on average well past the old 2 year upgrade cycle largely due to the elimination of the old wireless contracts.  The knowledge that batteries age and fail is well known to the general public and has been for more than a century.

    And how much is Apple making charging $29?  Much less that $80!  In fact, Apple literally just killed the entire third party replacement battery market since no one will be able to make money now that Apple is providing battery replacement at close to their COST (part + labor + recycling).  And trust me, Apple likes profit margins as much as the next company.  But they hate paying lawyers even more and this was the best, customer centric solution to a mounting problem.

    Geez, get a clue and stop thinking about every damn conspiracy theory that comes your way.
    edited December 2017 StrangeDaysdsdwatto_cobra
  • Reply 112 of 233
    k2kw said:
    All in all it's a very good letter even if Tim is a the top of the conspiracy.

    although it would be better if this price was permanent.

    Also Android phone makers can't charge more than $29 for battery replacements - if you charge more than Apple its price gauging.
    "although it would be better if this price was permanent."

    Agree 100%
    Yes because some of you want everything for free. It’s a new battery and labor time to install it. That ain’t free. I used to work for Best Buy as a PC install tech 20 years abbott and we charged 79 just to install some crappy modem or sound card. And you want it all for free?

    Clearly you don’t run a business. 
    edited December 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 113 of 233
    kccsyy168 said:
    Unless Apple will allow user to choose at will to enable this feature WHEN the 'symptom' appears on the iphone. This is not a good deal at all unless it is permanent. Your iphone 7 or 8 will still be under this 'feature' moving forward. They will still be slow down by the SAME hidden feature. You are still being forced to do upgrade by Apple.
    There’s a novel idea. I can see it now. A user clicks on an item on their older phone that starts a routine that will demand more processor power than the battery can provide. Everything stops and a dialog box pops up. Your iPhone is about to try to use more power than your battery can provide. What would you like to do? There are two buttons from which to choose for the next step: Crash and Temporarily slow down. 

    Which one do you choose?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 114 of 233

    foggyhill said:
    I said from day one when this first errupted this would be a huge PR problem for Apple. I wasn’t wrong. This is a good step though I agree with Ben Bajarin the $29 battery price should be permanent. Also I’m seeing quite a few posts from people saying their phone was fine with iOS 10 but when they upgraded to iOS 11 it really started to slow down. Seems there’s more issues than just the battery. Hopefully future point releases will fix these issues.
    That huge PR problem exists in your wild imagination. No serious engineer talks without getting the results of the tests, benchmarks and other analysis. And Apple is managed by a serious engineer.
    Ha, if it only exists in my imagination why did Apple release a statement? Why did they reduce the price of a battery replacement by $50? Why are they adding new features to iOS to give customers more visibility to the health of their battery? This was a huge PR issue that has affected Apple’s reputation and people’s trust in the company. You have have your head in the sand if you think otherwise.
    Because it’s easier to spend money to change the narrative than trying to fix rampant misinformation and recall the distorted narrative that’s already out there. 

    Easier , to accept you did not communicate properly and that some people may feel hurt by this error, and fix the perception issue to what amount as buying the peace. Letting the narrative, no matter how false it is, escalate further, may have damaged the brand which is far more costly. 
    What’s the false narrative? That they were throttling phones without alerting the user?
    Don’t be daft. the false narrative is obviously the one all over the hater rags — that apple is slowing down phones to make people upgrade as part of a conspiracy of planned obsolescence. You know, like the french lawsuit alleges. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 115 of 233

    digitol said:
    This is completely unbelievable! What Apple did is a crime. Now they are offering slight discounts, for getting caught. What about those who bought new iPhones under false pretenses. It's like sorry sir/mam for mugging you and robbing you of your belongings. Pay us $50 and We will give you back $29 of the $700 we took from you. How messed up is that. #logic. Fire Tim Cook, give us edge to edge screen laptops, thin, with both USB ports, 3 and c. that can induction charge.  Quit playing around, and give / unleash the tech. I am a user, but no longer a fan.
    Actually, that’s complete rubbish. Nothing was a crime. Nobody “took” anything from you — batteries run dry! Old news, buddy. 

    Dont move to the north if you don’t like changing batteries, you’ll be upset when your car stops working. But you won’t whine about that, for some reason. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 116 of 233
    Will be interesting to see how this affect Apple’s future sales once everyone realises they can make their phones ‘new’ again for only $29.

    BTW that $29 will be $69 in Australia and $89 in New Zealand...
  • Reply 117 of 233
    bluefire1 said:
    The company that believes in complete transparency is finally being transparent.
    What on earth are you talking about? When has been Apple been known for transparency and not secrecy? Different Apple maybe?
    muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 118 of 233

    k2kw said:
    AI_lias said:
    Everyone on here that said Apple did nothing wrong, should keep paying $80 for their battery replacements.
    That would certainly be Karma.   They can get their new battery after wiping the egg off their face.   They can yell at us as much as they want but when you pay $700 or more for a phone you expect a correspondent quality, service, and support.   Which is why I found this unacceptable.  It’s also why android phones like the Pixel 2 are extremely unacceptable with its long list of problems.
    Are you trying to pretend iphones should magically be excluded from the laws of physics and chemistry? Old, expired batteries should just work forever in iphones, because Apple?

    So absurd. 
    RonnnieOwilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 119 of 233
    raclark77 said:
    If they had told people what they were doing before just slowing peoples phones down without their consent it would be different.

    This action is tantamount to malware being pushed out as a software update. More reason to NOT trust company updates.

    And now to restore the device to previous conditions the user must pay for a new battery?! How is this not equal to randsomware?! Having to spend money that had not been planned on being spent until this is basically extortion.

    At $29 a pop just how many millions will this make them?! This is outrageous, and just laughable that some of the people commenting here are just fine with this as it is.

    This just happened to slow down old devices at the exact same time as new Apple phones being sold too! This is too much of a coincidence to be a coincidence.

    I feel Apple has overstepped with this whole situation. The price reduction on a maintenance that wasn't needed until their actions is not a fix of any kind.

    As it stands now, I have no plans to buy anything Apple again. Microsoft, and Apple both are making some boneheaded decisions lately. I almost think they might just be the same company secretly.

    They were caught red handed. Me paying them for their actions is not going to make me feel any better about this in any way.

    If this was all fine, then why was it secretly/silently done?
    What planet are you from, where batteries don’t wear out and/or for profit corporations replace them for you for free for life?

    What brand car do you drive, where you get free battery replacements?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 120 of 233
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,571member
    anshuljain said:

    ... I know this from my current job in medical devices where we are required to predict battery life for lifesaving medical devices that we design. 
    Are you seriously trying to compare a medical device to a cell phone?

    One needs a reliable battery to keep someone alive. The other needs a reliable battery to update Twitter tweets. 
    watto_cobra
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