Law firm that extracted $450M settlement in Apple e-books case is going after company for ...

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  • Reply 61 of 178
    "The complaint, which names New York resident John Solak as a plaintiff, seeks damages for performance degradation as a result of multiple iOS updates dating back to iOS 10.2.1."

    It's going to be very difficult to prove in court that the phone shutting off completely = better performance than the phone slowing down. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 62 of 178
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 3,108administrator
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    Does anyone know why all their other current devices seem to have a 1000 charge cycle (before it gets to 80% capacity), while the iPhone is still at 500? Is this due to the sheer capacity needed for the iPhone that 1000 charge cycle batteries are simply not feasible at this time?

    Physical size. More reactants = a battery that can handle depletion and environmental-caused damage better.
    If that was the primary measure then the Apple Watch (0.78 to 0.93 Wh) wouldn't also have a 1000 cycle rating like the iPad (19.32 to 38.8 Wh) and Mac notebook lines (41.4 to 76.0 Wh). I'd also imagine that we'd also see this formula mentioned and the stepping indicated as larger batteries help increase the number of full cycles—not just that larger batteries extend how often full cycles occur for a given workload—as the batteries increase and decrease in size. At the very least, Watch would not have a 1000 cycle charge if physical size is the primary reason.
    Battery engineering is hard to narrow down, succinctly. For best integration and efficiency, a battery and a product aren't designed in a vacuum.

    If you go back to this week's "Here's how Li-ion batteries work" article, there's a discharge curve showing voltage over depletion percentage. Physically larger batteries have less of a slope in the start and the end. So, voltage is more constant -- which explains that for the iPad and Mac batteries.

    I suspect that the extremely low voltage required on the Apple Watch because of the tiny screen and very low processing demand has more to do with the 1000 cycles on that battery. It takes more depletion to get to a critical voltage point, where the battery would have to be replaced.

    On the other side of the scale is a submarine battery. Yes, that kind of submarine. It is massive. Even with constant maintenance and electrolyte chemistry testing, it also needs to be completely replaced every 3-5 years, because the critical voltage is pretty close to the max voltage of the unit.
    edited January 6 pscooter63
  • Reply 63 of 178
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 6,168member
    What we’re seeing right now is unadulterated hysteria. Every user who even suspects their phone is running slower will now be absolutely 100% sure it’s Apple doing the dirty deed on them. We’ll just need to let the legal process work its way through and hope intelligence and evidence rules the day, not hysteria and conspiracy theories.
    magman1979StrangeDayspscooter63flashfan207baconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 64 of 178
    entropys said:
    Atomic, I doubt your SE is being throttled if your battery is performing at 86% capacity. Have you considered you have an older generation CPU trying to run the latest generation OS?

    I find it fascinating that people buy an older gen device expecting it to last as long as latest gen devices, and perform as well when software optimised for those latest gen, more powerful devices is installed. There is a reason they don’t cost as much.

    also, if you are so desperate to replace the battery in your out of warranty device, there are any number of mall shops that would do it for you. Heck you could do it yourself!
    As I suspected, the denialist mentality in full force.  YES, I did consider the fact that it was an older gen CPU running the latest OS.  That’s what always suspected until I analyzed the situation on my own.  You guys act like anyone who expresses an opinion that is contrary to the Apple party line is ignorant.  I’m a long time hobbyist, tech geek, and even have a minor computer science background.  And my next step WAS to replace the “good” battery myself with an iFixit repair kit since Apple didn’t seem to want my business in an official capacity. Although I’m sure they would have gladly offered me to take a look at an iPhone 8 or X. Now that Apple has been forced to come clean, I will reevaluate the manner of replacement. 

    Read my post. The phone increases its throttle level by battery charge level. What I didn’t mention was that at 100% charge, the CPU is at full speed. Yes.... the full 1850 MHz for the first few minutes of use. By the time the charge drops a few points, we’re at 1500 MHz, and the stutters begin to mount.  Below 90%, it’s usually at 1200 MHz, and from there you can expect it to bounce around from 1200 to 911 MHz until below 70% charge. So for the majority of my day, my phone acts and feels not like a still capable iPhone SE, but like my older iPhone 5S.  The gradual throttling is palpable. I can feel it in the increased lag and stutters as the clock speed decreases. Geekbench and my own fingers prove it. 

    Until upgrading to iOS 11, the phone was perfectly speedy.  No issues with battery life, no jumping battery charge indications, and no unexpected shutdowns. It was very nice of Apple to add this feature to my 15 month old phone to make sure I knew that there was flashy new product on the shelf. 


    muthuk_vanalingammaxit
  • Reply 65 of 178
    SoliSoli Posts: 7,847member
    lkrupp said:
    What we’re seeing right now is unadulterated hysteria. Every user who even suspects their phone is running slower will now be absolutely 100% sure it’s Apple doing the dirty deed on them. We’ll just need to let the legal process work its way through and hope intelligence and evidence rules the day, not hysteria and conspiracy theories.
    Because of the hysteria it's affected even the tepid users. I know plenty that had no feelings one way or the other on the matter, but were told to get new batteries. No one had been informed to first check Settings » Battery to see if their battery needed to be serviced. In all the cases, not one of them had the an aging battery that was underperforming, and several had already made Genius appts. I told them that they may want to get the $29 battery right before Dec 2018 ends if they've determined their battery has lost at least 10–15% of its original capacity -and- planned to use it for at least another year or more, which included giving away to someone else. Can't go wrong at that price.
    baconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 66 of 178
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,697member
    entropys said:
    Atomic, I doubt your SE is being throttled if your battery is performing at 86% capacity.
    I don't know why you are concluding this based on Atomic's comments. He says that he has observed GeekBench scores (and CPU clock speed) decreasing (dramatically) as the battery discharges. Sounds like pretty heavy throttling to me.
    entropys said:
    Have you considered you have an older generation CPU trying to run the latest generation OS?
    Not relevant. Atomic's comments imply that performance is acceptable when battery is full and become unacceptable as battery discharges.
    entropys said:
    also, if you are so desperate to replace the battery in your out of warranty device, there are any number of mall shops that would do it for you. Heck you could do it yourself!
    I will endlessly defend Apple's throttling of the CPU because I think it's a good engineering solution to the problem. However, their (previous) policy of refusing to change a user's battery, even when that user is trying to pay for it, it totally unacceptable. If you want your battery to be replaced, you should be able to have the battery replaced, regardless of the results of any tests. Test results should only influence whether or not you have to pay for the battery replacement (e.g. tests show that battery has aged faster than warranted and therefore should be replaced for free).
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 67 of 178
    lkrupp said:
    What we’re seeing right now is unadulterated hysteria. Every user who even suspects their phone is running slower will now be absolutely 100% sure it’s Apple doing the dirty deed on them. We’ll just need to let the legal process work its way through and hope intelligence and evidence rules the day, not hysteria and conspiracy theories.
    Agreed that some will try to take advantage of this situation. There will be dishonesty throughout. I’m trying to stand up for those who are not part of that group and who have truly been done a disservice by a questionably shady business decision on Apple’s part.  
    muthuk_vanalingamrogifan_new
  • Reply 68 of 178
    SoliSoli Posts: 7,847member
    atomic101 said:
    entropys said:
    Atomic, I doubt your SE is being throttled if your battery is performing at 86% capacity. Have you considered you have an older generation CPU trying to run the latest generation OS?

    I find it fascinating that people buy an older gen device expecting it to last as long as latest gen devices, and perform as well when software optimised for those latest gen, more powerful devices is installed. There is a reason they don’t cost as much.

    also, if you are so desperate to replace the battery in your out of warranty device, there are any number of mall shops that would do it for you. Heck you could do it yourself!
    You guys act like anyone who expresses an opinion that is contrary to the Apple party line is ignorant.
    Not at all. It's when someone makes bold claims without citing any evidence to back up their point that it definitely paint a picture of being ignorant. You quantified nothing about performance. Not a single timing of actual how the OS and apps are affected between swapping batteries. No specific benchmarks listed. No mention of the number of battery cycles that had been used. Not even a screenshot of the Settings showing the battery was bad.

    Do you really think that the iFixit battery is going to have more longevity than an Apple battery? It's anecdotal, but my experience of having bought countless batteries from various sources that cheap, 3rd-party vendors tend to have batteries that wear out much more quickly. Amazon has plenty of reviews of cheap, 3rd-party batteries that seem like a great deal but then crap out very quickly. It's difficult technology to get right. I hope your iFixit battery is top quality just as I hope Apple hasn't decided to go with a lesser quality battery than they try to put in their new products because these iPhones are already well used, more likely not to make it another 3+ years, and to reduce costs of having already stripped the price by $50; and let's not forget the the cost of lawsuits which users always end up paying for.
    edited January 6 pscooter63magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 69 of 178
    atomic101 said:
    I’m a long time visitor to this site but have never been bothered join the forum discussions.  Flame me if you want for being a first time poster, but I’m just stating the truth.  I’ve owned iPhones as far back as the 3GS, and currently own/use an iPhone SE, iPad Pro 10.5, and iPad Pro 12.9.

    My 15 month old iPhone SE has been a recipient of this new Apple “feature” and the drama that has unfolded has infuriated me. Apple deserves every bit of bad press coming to them, and even though I never indulge in many of the frivolous class action lawsuits that abound in the industry, this is one that I’m considering jumping on.

    My SE battery tested “good” by Apple, with less than 14% wear a few weeks back, and they outright REFUSED to allow me to replace it.  REFUSED.... and I was willing to pay them the $79 replacement fee to do it.  An authorized Best Buy store reiterated the same BS... as an authorized service center, they were not allowed to replace a battery that was not testing outside mandated boundaries.  I kid you not.... they would NOT take my money for fear of reprisal by Apple. 

    Meanwhile, my “good” battery was causing my phone to throttle anywhere from 1500 MHz at 90% charge, to 911 MHz when below 70% charge.  I’ve even caught it at 600 MHz on two occasions. Yes, throttled to 1/3 the normal speed. The numbers are garnered from an independent app (CPU Dasher), but the speed reductions are confirmed by Geekbench tests and just by normal use.  Once the phone is below 70% charge, the Weather Channel app, as a rough example, is almost unusable.... it’s a stuttery slideshow.  Poor app choice perhaps, but I’m just explaining that it’s not just a benchmark observation.... it’s real world use. 

    So everyone with your rose tinted glasses that perhaps hasn’t yet fallen victim to this “feature”, be mindful that this is a real issue. The the reasons that Apple has provided are likely 50% corporate speak and 50% CYA.  I’d like to think that they are an honest company, but with the experience I and many others are having, I have growing doubt that this is the case. 

    A 15 month old phone, not abused with a “good” battery, throttled to 1/2 to 1/3 it’s normal speed, that Apple refused to allow me to PAY them to replace the battery (until the recent announcement of course)... what else should I be led to think other than it’s a sneaky tweak "done for the good of the customer” to nudge me towards buying a new phone?  At least they got caught. 

    Lawyers, do your thing.  Unacceptable. 


    You know what would have been a better sneaky tweak to get people to buy phones quicker? Letting the phones crash without the battery voltage-induced throttling, with some of the crashes needing a DFU reset and restore to get working again.

    I don't disagree that there should have been more discussion about it.

    The lawyers are welcome to do their thing. But, I don't predict a lot of success.
    Do you believe Atom’s claim that his 86% healthy battery is being throttled when at a 90% charge? DF’s John Gruber said on his podcast that it doesn’t work that way, that it’s on unhealthy batteries and at a low charge. 

    I don’t know CPU Dasher app but maybe you can play with it. A couple posters have complained their CPUs aren’t running at 100% top speed and point to that as being proof that they are victims. 
    magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 70 of 178
    atomic101 said:
    entropys said:
    Atomic, I doubt your SE is being throttled if your battery is performing at 86% capacity. Have you considered you have an older generation CPU trying to run the latest generation OS?

    I find it fascinating that people buy an older gen device expecting it to last as long as latest gen devices, and perform as well when software optimised for those latest gen, more powerful devices is installed. There is a reason they don’t cost as much.

    also, if you are so desperate to replace the battery in your out of warranty device, there are any number of mall shops that would do it for you. Heck you could do it yourself!
    Read my post. The phone increases its throttle level by battery charge level. What I didn’t mention was that at 100% charge, the CPU is at full speed. Yes.... the full 1850 MHz for the first few minutes of use. By the time the charge drops a few points, we’re at 1500 MHz, and the stutters begin to mount.  Below 90%, it’s usually at 1200 MHz, and from there you can expect it to bounce around from 1200 to 911 MHz until below 70% charge. So for the majority of my day, my phone acts and feels not like a still capable iPhone SE, but like my older iPhone 5S.  The gradual throttling is palpable. I can feel it in the increased lag and stutters as the clock speed decreases. Geekbench and my own fingers prove it.

    Until upgrading to iOS 11, the phone was perfectly speedy.  No issues with battery life, no jumping battery charge indications, and no unexpected shutdowns. It was very nice of Apple to add this feature to my 15 month old phone to make sure I knew that there was flashy new product on the shelf. 
    Hate to burst your conspiracy bubble, but this wasn’t an iOS 11 feature. 10.2.1 or such. Oops. Now whatcha gonna blame?

    Sounds to me your non-speedy SE is simply older hardware running a new OS and is normal. 
    magman1979pscooter63watto_cobrasuddenly newton
  • Reply 71 of 178
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,697member
    atomic101 said:

    Read my post. The phone increases its throttle level by battery charge level. What I didn’t mention was that at 100% charge, the CPU is at full speed. Yes.... the full 1850 MHz for the first few minutes of use. By the time the charge drops a few points, we’re at 1500 MHz, and the stutters begin to mount.  Below 90%, it’s usually at 1200 MHz, and from there you can expect it to bounce around from 1200 to 911 MHz until below 70% charge. So for the majority of my day, my phone acts and feels not like a still capable iPhone SE, but like my older iPhone 5S.  The gradual throttling is palpable. I can feel it in the increased lag and stutters as the clock speed decreases. Geekbench and my own fingers prove it. 
    How many battery cycles have you had (you can plug your iPhone into a Mac and use CoconutBattery (free) to find this info)? I suspect what you are seeing may be more to do with thermal management than the battery. Certainly, I wouldn't expect the CPU to run at full MHz all the time, regardless of battery status.
    magman1979muthuk_vanalingampscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 72 of 178
    Soli said:
    atomic101 said:
    entropys said:
    Atomic, I doubt your SE is being throttled if your battery is performing at 86% capacity. Have you considered you have an older generation CPU trying to run the latest generation OS?

    I find it fascinating that people buy an older gen device expecting it to last as long as latest gen devices, and perform as well when software optimised for those latest gen, more powerful devices is installed. There is a reason they don’t cost as much.

    also, if you are so desperate to replace the battery in your out of warranty device, there are any number of mall shops that would do it for you. Heck you could do it yourself!
    You guys act like anyone who expresses an opinion that is contrary to the Apple party line is ignorant.
    Not at all. It's when someone makes bold claims without citing any evidence to back up their point that it definitely paint a picture of being ignorant. You quantified nothing about performance. Not a single timing of actual how the OS and apps are affected between swapping batteries. No specific benchmarks listed. No mention of the number of battery cycles that had been used. Not even a screenshot of the Settings showing the battery was bad.

    Do you really think that the iFixit battery is going to have more longevity than an Apple battery? It's anecdotal, but my experience of having bought countless batteries from various sources that cheap, 3rd-party vendors tend to have batteries that wear out much more quickly. Amazon has plenty of reviews of cheap, 3rd-party batteries that seem like a great deal but then crap out very quickly. It's difficult technology to get right. I hope your iFixit battery is top quality just as I hope Apple hasn't decided to go with a lesser quality battery than they try to put in their new products because these iPhones are already well used, more likely not to make it another 3+ years, and to reduce costs of having already stripped the price by $50; and let's not forget the the cost of lawsuits which users always end up paying for.
    Bold claims? These are the same issues that others have been bringing to the attention of the public. Apple IS throttling phones. I am just providing my two cents from a very personal frustration and bringing to attention that even relatively healthy batteries are being lumped into the "throttle" category. I didn't realize that every dissenting opinion needed detailed evidence and screenshots else be completely invalidated and attacked. However, I do feel strongly about this issue (hence my joining the forums for the first time), and will be compiling some screenshots for your consideration. The observation of gradual throttling has now become a daily hobby of mine, as I benchmark throughout my day to verify the degrading effects. 

    And the battery doesn't test bad! It tests as Good! Even with third party apps! Hence my frustration with the throttling!

    I'm confused about your comment about the iFixit battery.  First of all, I have not yet had the battery replaced. Second of all, the ifixit solution was not my first choice.... I wanted an official Apple solution until being denied that repair (mind you I was going to pay for it as I do not have an extended Apple Care warranty).

    The fact that they flat out denied a repair that I was willing to pay $79 for was suspicious, not to mention infuriating. I wasted an hour of my day only to be told that "your battery tests as good, and Apple will not allow us to change the battery for you.". This makes no sense to me.... If the consumer wants an authorized dealer to replace a part that they are paying for, you change the part!  This happened on December 21st, which was before Apple issued their public apology and changed their replacement policy. 

    I plan to wait until Apple relases their iOS update that addresses this issue.  I'm curious if my phone is simply falling victim to a programming bug that is throttling the CPU even though the battery tests fine. Perhaps with all the public scrutiny, Apple will "adjust" their feature to give more leeway to devices with healthy batteries. 


    muthuk_vanalingammaxit
  • Reply 73 of 178
    atomic101 said:
    lkrupp said:
    What we’re seeing right now is unadulterated hysteria. Every user who even suspects their phone is running slower will now be absolutely 100% sure it’s Apple doing the dirty deed on them. We’ll just need to let the legal process work its way through and hope intelligence and evidence rules the day, not hysteria and conspiracy theories.
    Agreed that some will try to take advantage of this situation. There will be dishonesty throughout. I’m trying to stand up for those who are not part of that group and who have truly been done a disservice by a questionably shady business decision on Apple’s part.  
    What... You are not eligible to have any control on the throttling of your device or your computer. Did you sign a contract with Apple or any other computer manufacturer to not throttle your computer? You buy their hardware knowing in advance that the operating system performs thermal management to protect your computer from burning up. Now you can't say "I am cheated...." If your smartphone explodes in your ass pocket Geekbench won’t save your ass.
    edited January 6 magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 74 of 178
    atomic101 said:
    lkrupp said:
    What we’re seeing right now is unadulterated hysteria. Every user who even suspects their phone is running slower will now be absolutely 100% sure it’s Apple doing the dirty deed on them. We’ll just need to let the legal process work its way through and hope intelligence and evidence rules the day, not hysteria and conspiracy theories.
    Agreed that some will try to take advantage of this situation. There will be dishonesty throughout. I’m trying to stand up for those who are not part of that group and who have truly been done a disservice by a questionably shady business decision on Apple’s part.  
    What... You are not eligible to have any control on the throttling of your device or your computer. Did you sign a contract with Apple or any other computer manufacturer to not throttle your computer? You buy their hardware knowing in advance that the operating system performs thermal management to protect your computer from burning up. Now you can't say "I am cheated...." If your smartphone explodes in your ass pocket Geekbench won’t save your ass.

    Then as a company, when I go to have it tested/replaced, don't tell me that my battery is "good". 

    muthuk_vanalingammaxit
  • Reply 75 of 178
    atomic101 said:
    atomic101 said:
    lkrupp said:
    What we’re seeing right now is unadulterated hysteria. Every user who even suspects their phone is running slower will now be absolutely 100% sure it’s Apple doing the dirty deed on them. We’ll just need to let the legal process work its way through and hope intelligence and evidence rules the day, not hysteria and conspiracy theories.
    Agreed that some will try to take advantage of this situation. There will be dishonesty throughout. I’m trying to stand up for those who are not part of that group and who have truly been done a disservice by a questionably shady business decision on Apple’s part.  
    What... You are not eligible to have any control on the throttling of your device or your computer. Did you sign a contract with Apple or any other computer manufacturer to not throttle your computer? You buy their hardware knowing in advance that the operating system performs thermal management to protect your computer from burning up. Now you can't say "I am cheated...." If your smartphone explodes in your ass pocket Geekbench won’t save your ass.

    Then as a company, when I go to have it tested/replaced, don't tell me that my battery is "good". 

    Your battery may be good and there may be myriad of reasons that slow down your device: defective logic board, water, drop, defective battery are to name a few. Slowness is always a support issue. If you have a slowness problem Apple support is there. As when you're sick you don't heal yourself reading Wikipedia but you go to a physician right? Did Apple refuse to cure the slowness of your device? No because you didn't request that. You self-diagnosed your issue then you tried to force Apple to comply with your "solution".
    edited January 6 magman1979pscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 76 of 178
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,697member
    Your battery may be good and there may be myriad of reasons that slow down your device: defective logic board, water, drop, defective battery are to name a few. Slowness is always a support issue. If you have a slowness problem Apple support is there. As when you're sick you don't heal yourself reading Wikipedia but you go to a physician right? Did Apple refuse to cure the slowness of your device? No because you didn't request that.
    Agreed with all of this.
    tried to force Apple to comply with your "solution".
    You don't think it's totally unreasonable of Apple to refuse to replace the battery? It's not that they were refusing to replace it for free, they were refusing to replace it, even for the $79 fee (which clearly has a VERY healthy profit margin)! Personally, I think that is unacceptable and indefensible.
    edited January 6 muthuk_vanalingamrogifan_newgatorguy
  • Reply 77 of 178
    ivanhivanh Posts: 176member
    chia said:
    ivanh said:
    1. Capacity depleted up to 20% of design should not fail to deliver peak power required by the iPhone;

    2. Running down to 30% energy left after a full charge will still provide peak power required by any iPhone;

    These are quite specific determinations and expectations.  Any citations?

    Are they based on science, observation, experience or expert opinion; that of an electronic/electrical engineer or a cut and paster?
    Yes.  
    a. AppleCare+ allows you to replace your iPhone during warranty period if your iPhone's battery capacity drops below 80%, i.e. depleted 20%.  Within 20% depletion, Apple just rejects your claim.
    b. "Your iPhone lets you know when your battery level goes down to 20% ... and lets you turn on Low Power Mode... " And when you turn on Battery Saving Mode, the performance throttled showed on Geekbench 4's Single-Core from about 1500 to below 999, and frequency throttled showed on CPU DasherX from 1400 MHz to 839 MHz on an iPhone 6 Plus.  So, it's conservative to say that 30% battery remains to an iOS device, the Battery Savings Mode is not necessary and the device can still run at full speed.
  • Reply 78 of 178
    ivanhivanh Posts: 176member

    mr. h said:
    ivanh said:
    3. Not mentioned by any battery-gate article editors that all lithium-ion batteries have their own circuit processors managing the batteries.
    Correct.
    ivanh said:
    It should not be the iOS business to throttle it.
    Not correct. There is nothing that the on-battery circuitry can do with regards the internal resistance of the cells. It is inevitable that if the iPhone circuitry draws too large a peak current on an old battery with high internal impedance, its output voltage will drop excessively and cause a shutdown. The throttling is used to prevent such peak current draw.

    chia said:
    ivanh said:
    1. Capacity depleted up to 20% of design should not fail to deliver peak power required by the iPhone;

    2. Running down to 30% energy left after a full charge will still provide peak power required by any iPhone;

    These are quite specific determinations and expectations.  Any citations?

    Are they based on science, observation, experience or expert opinion; that of an electronic/electrical engineer or a cut and paster?
    +1

    https://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-performance/
  • Reply 79 of 178
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,697member
    ivanh said:
    That doesn't support the assertions you are making. The capacity tests are just that - measures of how much energy the battery currently stores and the maximum that it can store. The problem at hand (sudden shutdown) is caused by elevated internal resistance.

    Apple's refusal to replace batteries that have been less than 20% depleted, even if you're trying to pay them to do it, is stupid and hopefully has now changed.
    muthuk_vanalingampscooter63
  • Reply 80 of 178
    mr. h said:
    Your battery may be good and there may be myriad of reasons that slow down your device: defective logic board, water, drop, defective battery are to name a few. Slowness is always a support issue. If you have a slowness problem Apple support is there. As when you're sick you don't heal yourself reading Wikipedia but you go to a physician right? Did Apple refuse to cure the slowness of your device? No because you didn't request that.
    Agreed with all of this.
    tried to force Apple to comply with your "solution".
    You don't think it's totally unreasonable of Apple to refuse to replace the battery? It's not that they were refusing to replace it for free, they were refusing to replace it, even for the $79 fee (which clearly has a VERY healthy profit margin)! Personally, I think that is unacceptable and indefensible.
    Then you would sue Apple again claiming "they unnecessarily replaced my good battery and they charged $79 for that."
    magman1979watto_cobra
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