Law firm that extracted $450M settlement in Apple e-books case is going after company for ...

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  • Reply 101 of 178
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 4,561member
    feudalist said:
    For F*** sake.. They’re all a pack of whingers... if you don’t like Apple and how they make their phones and IOS.. F*** off and buy an Android. You people are pathetic and think the world owes you everything. Batteries wear out and apple does it’s best to make sure you get the best out of it with a degraded battery. Just STFU AND REPLACE THE BATTERY like normal people do when it’s worn out . With all you litigious A Holes their won’t be an Apple in Years to come
    This is contract issue, they advertise, we buy. Throtling to oblivion, secretly, after the terms are consumed, is breach of contract. Yes, they are obliged to restore device to agreed perfomance minus expected wear&tear. 
    You’re making that up, that isn’t what they implemented. If your phone is slowed to oblivion it’s not the peak power draw throttling.
    edited January 7 watto_cobramagman1979
  • Reply 102 of 178
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 4,561member
    atomic101 said:
    entropys said:
    Atomic, I doubt your SE is being throttled if your battery is performing at 86% capacity. Have you considered you have an older generation CPU trying to run the latest generation OS?

    I find it fascinating that people buy an older gen device expecting it to last as long as latest gen devices, and perform as well when software optimised for those latest gen, more powerful devices is installed. There is a reason they don’t cost as much.

    also, if you are so desperate to replace the battery in your out of warranty device, there are any number of mall shops that would do it for you. Heck you could do it yourself!
    As I suspected, the denialist mentality in full force.  YES, I did consider the fact that it was an older gen CPU running the latest OS.  That’s what always suspected until I analyzed the situation on my own.  You guys act like anyone who expresses an opinion that is contrary to the Apple party line is ignorant.  I’m a long time hobbyist, tech geek, and even have a minor computer science background.  And my next step WAS to replace the “good” battery myself with an iFixit repair kit since Apple didn’t seem to want my business in an official capacity. Although I’m sure they would have gladly offered me to take a look at an iPhone 8 or X. Now that Apple has been forced to come clean, I will reevaluate the manner of replacement. 

    Read my post. The phone increases its throttle level by battery charge level. What I didn’t mention was that at 100% charge, the CPU is at full speed. Yes.... the full 1850 MHz for the first few minutes of use. By the time the charge drops a few points, we’re at 1500 MHz, and the stutters begin to mount.  Below 90%, it’s usually at 1200 MHz, and from there you can expect it to bounce around from 1200 to 911 MHz until below 70% charge. So for the majority of my day, my phone acts and feels not like a still capable iPhone SE, but like my older iPhone 5S.  The gradual throttling is palpable. I can feel it in the increased lag and stutters as the clock speed decreases. Geekbench and my own fingers prove it. 

    Until upgrading to iOS 11, the phone was perfectly speedy.  No issues with battery life, no jumping battery charge indications, and no unexpected shutdowns. It was very nice of Apple to add this feature to my 15 month old phone to make sure I knew that there was flashy new product on the shelf. 
    Again since you didn’t respond - Hate to burst your conspiracy bubble, but this wasn’t an iOS 11 feature. 10.2.1 or such. So now what do you say? By your own admission your phone was speedy WITH the throttling routine present. 

    Sounds like the “denialist” is you. You’re denying the reality that peak power draw throttle isn’t what’s making your phone slow. 
    edited January 7 Solipscooter63watto_cobramagman1979
  • Reply 103 of 178
    I went to Apple Store to confirm if the CPU Throttling is being done for iPhone 5S. They confirmed YES it is being done for all iPhones including iPhone 5S whichever has iOS 10.2.1 or higher installed on it. My iPhone 5S was not abruptly shutting down. Still this performance degradation is done for it without informing. It has become so slow I can barely use it for anything except phone calls. I believe we should include iPhone 5S also in this law suit.
  • Reply 104 of 178
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 1,387member
    What Apple needs to be sued for is not providing clean master reset of iDevice for many IOS generations. Apple have been told million times that use Settings > General > Reset > Erase All Content and Settings to do complete Reset/Wipe the device. As part of this step, ask user to input and validate all security credentials attached to the iDevice. No back and forth going into Settings to turn off this and that. It should happen automatically. User needs to execute this ONE step and at the end the device is clean. Because Apple never provided clean process for many generation of IOS/iDevice for complete Reset; millions of such iDevices have been Activation Locked and Apple support tells jibber-jabber story but would not help those customers which ending into bricked,useless devices. If any law firm sues Apple for this flaw; I will be happy to participate in every way.
  • Reply 105 of 178
    SoliSoli Posts: 7,089member
    PMiglani said:
    I went to Apple Store to confirm if the CPU Throttling is being done for iPhone 5S. They confirmed YES it is being done for all iPhones including iPhone 5S whichever has iOS 10.2.1 or higher installed on it. My iPhone 5S was not abruptly shutting down. Still this performance degradation is done for it without informing. It has become so slow I can barely use it for anything except phone calls. I believe we should include iPhone 5S also in this law suit.
    1) It's not done for all iPhones.

    2) Your iPhone was not abruptly shutting down because the capped peak performance so you're claiming that your iPhone wouldn't have shut down had Apple not capped peak performance?

    3) There's nothing with the processor that is done by informing you. They don't get your permission to switch between high-power and power-efficient cores. They don't get your permission to clear RAM of old apps in their saved state when they run out of room. Nothing about the SoC is user manageable and it's ridiculous to think that you're better at micromanaging a processor… especially when the alternative is having your device shut down unexpectedly.

    4) Since this started with 10.2.1, which came out a year ago this month, are you claiming that you've had this issue for a year, but are only now noticing it after this story broke? And you expect Apple to let you micromanaging every aspect of every component as if you're even qualified to read a spec sheet on a Best Buy display shelf.
    StrangeDayspscooter63watto_cobramagman1979
  • Reply 106 of 178
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 3,506member
    PMiglani said:
    I went to Apple store to confirm if this CPU Throttling is being done for 5S as well. They replied YES. All iPhones which has iOS 10.2.1, this slowness was being done without informing users. My iPhone 5S has become so slow I can barely use it for anything. I never had any issue of abrupt shutdown of my iPhone 5S still this throttling is forced on my phone. The iPhone 5S should also be included in this law suit.

    Before you create an account to make stuff up, you need to read the history of the problem you’re making stuff up about. 

    The reason your imaginary iPhone didn’t have a problem with imaginary shutdowns is because Apple slows the processor during peak operations to prevent the ageing battery shutting down the phone. 

    If your imaginary phone is slow all the time then you’ve made something up to complain about a different imaginary problem. 

    I suggest you create another account and try again. 
    edited January 7 StrangeDaysSolipscooter63watto_cobramagman1979
  • Reply 107 of 178
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,386member
    Soli said:
    p-dog said:
    Well, it’s a good thing somebody didn’t spill hot coffee onto their lap as well.
    You know the McDonald's coffee issue was legit, right?


    Not at all.  Coffee drinkers should have an inherent understanding that the drink is served hot.   That hot coffee law suit was disgusting.  
    magman1979
  • Reply 108 of 178
    jcs2305jcs2305 Posts: 373member
    atomic101 said:
    entropys said:
    Atomic, I doubt your SE is being throttled if your battery is performing at 86% capacity. Have you considered you have an older generation CPU trying to run the latest generation OS?

    I find it fascinating that people buy an older gen device expecting it to last as long as latest gen devices, and perform as well when software optimised for those latest gen, more powerful devices is installed. There is a reason they don’t cost as much.

    also, if you are so desperate to replace the battery in your out of warranty device, there are any number of mall shops that would do it for you. Heck you could do it yourself!
    As I suspected, the denialist mentality in full force.  YES, I did consider the fact that it was an older gen CPU running the latest OS.  That’s what always suspected until I analyzed the situation on my own.  You guys act like anyone who expresses an opinion that is contrary to the Apple party line is ignorant.  I’m a long time hobbyist, tech geek, and even have a minor computer science background.  And my next step WAS to replace the “good” battery myself with an iFixit repair kit since Apple didn’t seem to want my business in an official capacity. Although I’m sure they would have gladly offered me to take a look at an iPhone 8 or X. Now that Apple has been forced to come clean, I will reevaluate the manner of replacement. 

    Read my post. The phone increases its throttle level by battery charge level. What I didn’t mention was that at 100% charge, the CPU is at full speed. Yes.... the full 1850 MHz for the first few minutes of use. By the time the charge drops a few points, we’re at 1500 MHz, and the stutters begin to mount.  Below 90%, it’s usually at 1200 MHz, and from there you can expect it to bounce around from 1200 to 911 MHz until below 70% charge. So for the majority of my day, my phone acts and feels not like a still capable iPhone SE, but like my older iPhone 5S.  The gradual throttling is palpable. I can feel it in the increased lag and stutters as the clock speed decreases. Geekbench and my own fingers prove it. 

    Until upgrading to iOS 11, the phone was perfectly speedy.  No issues with battery life, no jumping battery charge indications, and no unexpected shutdowns. It was very nice of Apple to add this feature to my 15 month old phone to make sure I knew that there was flashy new product on the shelf. 


    Wasn’t the throttling feature released with 10.2.1?  So how can we be sure that there isn’t an issue with your actual hardware or the iOS installation itself ? Has the phone been restored and set up as new? Back ups being installed over backups when new iOS versions are released can absolutely cause problems. 

    There was another user on here just last week that claimed the same as you ( refused to replace his battery at the Apple store ) His iPhone 6 was one of the phones that should have had the battery replaced under apple’s replacement program. He finally after months took it in and according to him the Apple Store refused to swap his battery ?  Then he mentione that the water damage indicators had changed color on his phone and that was how Apple wiggled it’s way out of replacing his battery? Because they claimed there was water damage ?  It’s nonsense posts like this that make it hard to figure who is being honest and upfront, and who is here to troll and spread FUD. 

    I am am not sure what Apple store you guys go to, but the local store where I am here in Pennsylvania would never turn down a paying work order. That makes zero sense to me. If I made a proper genius appointment and took my phone to them.. regardless of what any diagnostic check came back with, they would replace my battery if I wanted. Apple store refusing free repair makes more sense here,  turning down something a customer is requesting and willing to pay for makes zero sense. 

    I had someone on reddit swear that iOS 11 crippled his iPad Air 2 after upgrading. At that time I was using the same device and had zero problems with upgrade or performance. He reacted like I was lying and defending Apple ?  Hahaha. I’m sorry that my devices continue to run smooth and fast 3 years after release. My gf is now using that same iPad Air 2, as santa was nice enough to give me a pro 10.5 for Christmas ☺️ The air runs fast and smooth with no issues. 
    watto_cobramagman1979
  • Reply 109 of 178
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 3,506member
    dachar said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    alandail said:
    bluefire1 said:
    Apple should have known better.
    All they did was fix a problem.  Now they are being sued for fixing it.
    This is true, but all they had to do is look back at all the nonsense written about them for the past twenty years. Then they would have realised not being up front about it, straight away, was going to end badly. 
    Presumably all kinds of improvements are made with each release of iOS. I am not aware that Apple lists everything that they have changed, improved or added. Instead doesn’t Apple provide a summary of some key features that they think are of interest? Perhaps what happened was simply the battery throttling among many many changes was not considered worthy of promotion. 
    I’m sure you’re right, but then you’re not a rabidly insecure Apple hater. My point is that Apple has to be more careful than anyone else because for every customer they delight, there appears to be at least two people who, for whatever reason, would give their souls to see the company fold. I sometimes think that the Apple  does not understand how unpopular they are outside their customer base (and sometimes inside it). 

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 110 of 178
    SoliSoli Posts: 7,089member
    wizard69 said:
    Soli said:
    p-dog said:
    Well, it’s a good thing somebody didn’t spill hot coffee onto their lap as well.
    You know the McDonald's coffee issue was legit, right?


    Not at all.  Coffee drinkers should have an inherent understanding that the drink is served hot.   That hot coffee law suit was disgusting.  
    You think coffee served at near boiling is reasonable? You think coffee served so hot that involves skin grafts if any spills on you is reasonable?

    What is disgusting is McDonald’s disinformation on this issue, that they acted in an unethical manner despite years of knowledge on the issue, and that despite all the facts you still blame the hundreds of victims. Harvey Weinstein could use someone like you in his corner.
    edited January 7 StrangeDays
  • Reply 111 of 178
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,386member

    bluefire1 said:
    Apple should have known better.
    Exactly.   Apple has nobody but themselves to blame here.   They could have completely avoided this issue by telling users up front what they where doing.  Further an app that explains the battery condition is a pretty simple programming effort.  

    In any event it isnt the technology that is the problem, rather it is the lack of communications with the user that is the problem.   This would have been so simple for Apple to address yet they hid the functionality completely.  Apple cant get away with this as it would shatter consummer protection and current liability laws.  

    Look at it this way, imagine that an airplane manufacture had a software update that detects a flaw and limits perfotmance to 10,000 feet above sea level.   The software tells the pilot nothing and he is headed toward a mountain range.  Bam one dead pilot.  In a nut shell it is the lack to inform that is the problem!   
  • Reply 112 of 178
    SoliSoli Posts: 7,089member
    wizard69 said:
    Look at it this way, imagine that an airplane manufacture had a software update that detects a flaw and limits perfotmance to 10,000 feet above sea level.   The software tells the pilot nothing and he is headed toward a mountain range.  Bam one dead pilot.  In a nut shell it is the lack to inform that is the problem!   

    StrangeDayspscooter63watto_cobramagman1979
  • Reply 113 of 178
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 4,561member
    wizard69 said:
    Soli said:
    p-dog said:
    Well, it’s a good thing somebody didn’t spill hot coffee onto their lap as well.
    You know the McDonald's coffee issue was legit, right?


    Not at all.  Coffee drinkers should have an inherent understanding that the drink is served hot.   That hot coffee law suit was disgusting.  
    There’s a difference between hot and dangerously hot. They had over 700 complaints about customers being badly burned. This woman was hospitalized for 8 days and required skin grafts and two years of treatment. That temperature exceeds reasonably hot. By your logic there can be no upper limit to the temperature, which is insane. 

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants

    Your sentiment is a result of the successful PR campaign to blame the victim in popular culture. Mission accomplished for the PR strategy team. 
    edited January 7 Solisingularitymuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 114 of 178
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 4,561member

    wizard69 said:

    bluefire1 said:
    Apple should have known better.
    Exactly.   Apple has nobody but themselves to blame here.   They could have completely avoided this issue by telling users up front what they where doing.
    Get real. We all know it wouldn’t have made any difference, there’d be the same shitstorm by the Niley Patel pro-troll sites, and the army of haters and whiners who complain endlessly on these forums. Maybe you’ve seen them? 
    watto_cobramagman1979
  • Reply 115 of 178
    atomic101 said:
    entropys said:
    Atomic, I doubt your SE is being throttled if your battery is performing at 86% capacity. Have you considered you have an older generation CPU trying to run the latest generation OS?

    I find it fascinating that people buy an older gen device expecting it to last as long as latest gen devices, and perform as well when software optimised for those latest gen, more powerful devices is installed. There is a reason they don’t cost as much.

    also, if you are so desperate to replace the battery in your out of warranty device, there are any number of mall shops that would do it for you. Heck you could do it yourself!
    Read my post. The phone increases its throttle level by battery charge level. What I didn’t mention was that at 100% charge, the CPU is at full speed. Yes.... the full 1850 MHz for the first few minutes of use. By the time the charge drops a few points, we’re at 1500 MHz, and the stutters begin to mount.  Below 90%, it’s usually at 1200 MHz, and from there you can expect it to bounce around from 1200 to 911 MHz until below 70% charge. So for the majority of my day, my phone acts and feels not like a still capable iPhone SE, but like my older iPhone 5S.  The gradual throttling is palpable. I can feel it in the increased lag and stutters as the clock speed decreases. Geekbench and my own fingers prove it.

    Until upgrading to iOS 11, the phone was perfectly speedy.  No issues with battery life, no jumping battery charge indications, and no unexpected shutdowns. It was very nice of Apple to add this feature to my 15 month old phone to make sure I knew that there was flashy new product on the shelf. 
    Hate to burst your conspiracy bubble, but this wasn’t an iOS 11 feature. 10.2.1 or such. Oops. Now whatcha gonna blame?

    Sounds to me your non-speedy SE is simply older hardware running a new OS and is normal. 
    Gotcha gotcha. The feature initially rolled out for specific phones for a specific bug. Who is to say that Apple hasn't rolled out the feature in more devices and/or tweaked it's characteristics in iOS 11?

    I'm taken aback by how sure everyone who isn't affected by this feature is of themselves.  I guess I would be skeptical too if I was in your shoes.  Simply stating my observations and personal experiences as a long time iPhone user (nearly 9 years now). 

    I am observing the phone getting slower as the battery ticks down from 100%. I have never had the problems on my previous 7 or so devices. If it's just an OS encumberance, the performance should be relatively stable throughout the day. It shouldn't slow down like clockwork as my battery reaches 70% charge. 
    rogifan_newmaxit
  • Reply 116 of 178
    Soli said:
    PMiglani said:
    I went to Apple Store to confirm if the CPU Throttling is being done for iPhone 5S. They confirmed YES it is being done for all iPhones including iPhone 5S whichever has iOS 10.2.1 or higher installed on it. My iPhone 5S was not abruptly shutting down. Still this performance degradation is done for it without informing. It has become so slow I can barely use it for anything except phone calls. I believe we should include iPhone 5S also in this law suit.
    1) It's not done for all iPhones.
    It is done for iPhone 5S for sure. Apple Store confirmed it to me.

    2) Your iPhone was not abruptly shutting down because the capped peak performance so you're claiming that your iPhone wouldn't have shut down had Apple not capped peak performance?
    No, I am saying Apple assumed that every phone which has degrading battery should be throttled without informing users about performance impact of this fix. Apple should have informed users that we are doing so and so to prolong the life of device if they had good intentions. 

    3) There's nothing with the processor that is done by informing you. They don't get your permission to switch between high-power and power-efficient cores. They don't get your permission to clear RAM of old apps in their saved state when they run out of room. Nothing about the SoC is user manageable and it's ridiculous to think that you're better at micromanaging a processor… especially when the alternative is having your device shut down unexpectedly.
    I would say if they had good intentions, they would had told users in iOS 10.2.1 itself rather than users observing it again and again.

    4) Since this started with 10.2.1, which came out a year ago this month, are you claiming that you've had this issue for a year, but are only now noticing it after this story broke? And you expect Apple to let you micromanaging every aspect of every component as if you're even qualified to read a spec sheet on a Best Buy display shelf.
    Performance is not like a defect which you can just say yes or no. The performance was decreasing slowly and steadily as the phone battery was degrading. I believer deteriorate further as the battery will degrade. One day it would make my phone useless. Apple should have informed users long time back and also gave users choice to turn on/off this feature if they really wanted to increase the device live.

    I believe there is a hidden motive behind all this. Once ppl found it they had no choice but to accept it. Otherwise this issue or feature whatever you call it would have been hidden forever and ppl would be spending hundreds of dollars in upgrading their devices rather than changing the device battery. 
  • Reply 117 of 178
    Chuckit said:

    Cynthia Chapel has filed Class Action #25 against Apple for purposely slowing iPhones in the Jefferson City, Missouri. Chapel notes in her formal complaint in-part that "    In the modern digital age, batteries 'ear' over time. The lithium-ion battery used by Apple slowly diminishes its ability to hold a charge with time and use. However, normal lithium- ion battery wear does not reduce performance; a weakening battery has no effect on performance unless there is software that links the two. And that is precisely what Apple did here." 


    That final sentence = thrown out of court. Normal lithium ion batteries do lose performance (i.e, current available to the system) under the three conditions Apple has cited: age, low charge, or cold conditions.
    watto_cobramagman1979
  • Reply 118 of 178
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,386member
    thedba said:
    We’ve seen many opinions flow on the web about this case with a wide array of opinions.
    In the end, just like the e-book case it’s the lawyers who will come out as the winners.
    In an older John Gruber podcast, I believe he mentioned that he was mailed $5 compensation for having purchased books from iBooks. He was having a good laugh.

    If any of these cases are won by the vultures/lawyers, I wonder how much the common folk will get back? I doubt it’s going to be anywhere near the price of an iPhone, even a used one.
    I dont even see that as a concern here.   The problem is Apple addtessed a real problem but never infotmed the usr population of the impact of that remediation.    If you are wondering, YES i believe they have the duty to inform.  

    The reasoning is pretty simple, consummers not understanding the reason for a Phones slow down might engage in expenses they otherwise would not have engaged in.   Further from the stand point of corporate responsibility they can end up looking like used car salesman trying to pull a fast one.  Opinions expressed here already indicate that the have tarnished their reputation which is of big concern to stock holders.  

    Sadly all of this could have been prevented by being up front and honest about this fix.  I dont believe a reasonable person exprcts a battery to last forever, what they dont like here is the sneaky fix that leaves them wondering what happened to their cell phone. 

    A little honesty and a batterry health App would have gone a long ways here.  
    atomic101
  • Reply 119 of 178
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 2,556administrator
    Moderation note: don't copy and paste articles into the threads. A link will suffice.
    Soliwatto_cobra
  • Reply 120 of 178
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 4,561member
    atomic101 said:
    atomic101 said:
    entropys said:
    Atomic, I doubt your SE is being throttled if your battery is performing at 86% capacity. Have you considered you have an older generation CPU trying to run the latest generation OS?

    I find it fascinating that people buy an older gen device expecting it to last as long as latest gen devices, and perform as well when software optimised for those latest gen, more powerful devices is installed. There is a reason they don’t cost as much.

    also, if you are so desperate to replace the battery in your out of warranty device, there are any number of mall shops that would do it for you. Heck you could do it yourself!
    Read my post. The phone increases its throttle level by battery charge level. What I didn’t mention was that at 100% charge, the CPU is at full speed. Yes.... the full 1850 MHz for the first few minutes of use. By the time the charge drops a few points, we’re at 1500 MHz, and the stutters begin to mount.  Below 90%, it’s usually at 1200 MHz, and from there you can expect it to bounce around from 1200 to 911 MHz until below 70% charge. So for the majority of my day, my phone acts and feels not like a still capable iPhone SE, but like my older iPhone 5S.  The gradual throttling is palpable. I can feel it in the increased lag and stutters as the clock speed decreases. Geekbench and my own fingers prove it.

    Until upgrading to iOS 11, the phone was perfectly speedy.  No issues with battery life, no jumping battery charge indications, and no unexpected shutdowns. It was very nice of Apple to add this feature to my 15 month old phone to make sure I knew that there was flashy new product on the shelf. 
    Hate to burst your conspiracy bubble, but this wasn’t an iOS 11 feature. 10.2.1 or such. Oops. Now whatcha gonna blame?

    Sounds to me your non-speedy SE is simply older hardware running a new OS and is normal. 
    Gotcha gotcha. The feature initially rolled out for specific phones for a specific bug. Who is to say that Apple hasn't rolled out the feature in more devices and/or tweaked it's characteristics in iOS 11?
    Yes and who is to say the moon's core isn't comprised of braised short ribs?
    watto_cobramagman1979
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