Law firm that extracted $450M settlement in Apple e-books case is going after company for ...

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  • Reply 121 of 178
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,385member
    daven said:
    So the people here wanting to sue would rather have their phones crash when they need more power than the battery can deliver instead of throttled performance during peak demands? You can bet they would sue over that too.
    That is total nonsense.   This is pretty simple kid it is about not being informed as to battery condition and the systems decision to significantly slow the processor down.   In a nut shell it has nothing to do with the battery but rather a company making drastic changes to a functioning device without users or owners knowledge.  

    I really dont understand peoples need to twist the facts here to try to defend Apple.  It isnt the battery aging here nor the tech they implemented to deal with it that is the problem.  The problem is the lack of communications.    In Apples case it is pretty pathetic.   I can imagine a few shareholder law suits to go along with the consummer actions as this sort of behavior isnt well accepted in the business world.   Seriously would you trust your investments with a company so deceptive.  
    atomic101muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 122 of 178
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,385member
    lkrupp said:
    larrya said:
    This argument has been played out for so long.  It's really exhausting, day after day, yet I cannot look away.


    It is a gift that will keep on giving, I'm afraid.
    Exactly. Even if Apple had been completely transparent and announced to the world that they were slowing down phones to extend useful battery life we would have the same arguments, the same lawsuits, the same outrage, the same planned obsolescence conspiracy theories. Just because people knew ahead of time what Apple was doing it would have changed nothing.

    On the other hand, Apple should have known better. Opt-in plans are always better than Opt-out plans. AT&T found that out over thirty years ago when the Ma-Bell breakup happened. The breakup meant that customers were now responsible for the repair and maintenance of their inside wiring and phones. The local phone companies decided to create an Opt-out inside wire maintenance plan. In other words you started getting billed for the service without asking for it. It was you who had to call and say “I don’t want this service.” Needless to say that prompted class action lawsuits. While the phone company’s claim that it made the issue of who fixed inside wiring going forward easier on the customer may have been valid it made people mad that they were paying for something they didn’t ask for.

    In my one-man personal opinion, Apple should have made the battery management software an opt-in process. When the battery starts to fail you get a notification that turning on the feature may help extend useful battery life until you get it replaced.
    I have to disagree that not informing people wouldnt have made a difference.   From the legal standpoint and the consummer standpoint it would have made a huge difference.  Most of the lawsuits ive seen do far seem to revolve around not informing the owner as to what is going on.  From my perspective it is Apples responsibility to inform.  

    As to an app opt in or out it doesnt matter as an app could have went a very long way to assisting consummer understanding of the machines behavior.   Frankly this is again an Apple issue because apparently they think consummers dont understand that batteries wear out.  At times Apple just gets stupid with their focus on hiding anything remotely technical from the user.  In this case we have an extremely bad example.  
    atomic101
  • Reply 123 of 178
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,385member
    atomic101 said:
    I’m a long time visitor to this site but have never been bothered join the forum discussions.  Flame me if you want for being a first time poster, but I’m just stating the truth.  I’ve owned iPhones as far back as the 3GS, and currently own/use an iPhone SE, iPad Pro 10.5, and iPad Pro 12.9.

    My 15 month old iPhone SE has been a recipient of this new Apple “feature” and the drama that has unfolded has infuriated me. Apple deserves every bit of bad press coming to them, and even though I never indulge in many of the frivolous class action lawsuits that abound in the industry, this is one that I’m considering jumping on.

    My SE battery tested “good” by Apple, with less than 14% wear a few weeks back, and they outright REFUSED to allow me to replace it.  REFUSED.... and I was willing to pay them the $79 replacement fee to do it.  An authorized Best Buy store reiterated the same BS... as an authorized service center, they were not allowed to replace a battery that was not testing outside mandated boundaries.  I kid you not.... they would NOT take my money for fear of reprisal by Apple. 

    Meanwhile, my “good” battery was causing my phone to throttle anywhere from 1500 MHz at 90% charge, to 911 MHz when below 70% charge.  I’ve even caught it at 600 MHz on two occasions. Yes, throttled to 1/3 the normal speed. The numbers are garnered from an independent app (CPU Dasher), but the speed reductions are confirmed by Geekbench tests and just by normal use.  Once the phone is below 70% charge, the Weather Channel app, as a rough example, is almost unusable.... it’s a stuttery slideshow.  Poor app choice perhaps, but I’m just explaining that it’s not just a benchmark observation.... it’s real world use. 

    So everyone with your rose tinted glasses that perhaps hasn’t yet fallen victim to this “feature”, be mindful that this is a real issue. The the reasons that Apple has provided are likely 50% corporate speak and 50% CYA.  I’d like to think that they are an honest company, but with the experience I and many others are having, I have growing doubt that this is the case. 

    A 15 month old phone, not abused with a “good” battery, throttled to 1/2 to 1/3 it’s normal speed, that Apple refused to allow me to PAY them to replace the battery (until the recent announcement of course)... what else should I be led to think other than it’s a sneaky tweak "done for the good of the customer” to nudge me towards buying a new phone?  At least they got caught. 

    Lawyers, do your thing.  Unacceptable. 


    You know what would have been a better sneaky tweak to get people to buy phones quicker? Letting the phones crash without the battery voltage-induced throttling, with some of the crashes needing a DFU reset and restore to get working again.

    I don't disagree that there should have been more discussion about it.

    The lawyers are welcome to do their thing. But, I don't predict a lot of success.
    I dont see it that way.   Apple has a duty to inform and that is what most if these cases revolve around.  The fact that there is a battery involved has little to do with it.    Rather it is the fact that a software update blindly cause performance lose in an unexplained way.  

    Ive yet to see any document, that Apple can produce, that indicated such a change has been made.  This is rather sad as just about every update Apple ships for apps and even iOS documents fixes and improvements.  Maybe those documents are not as good as many would like but a one line entry would have went a long way to protecting Apple from these legal actions.    I honestly dont see how Apple can win here.   Further we may see action from shareholders if this deception is proven to be intentional.  

    atomic101
  • Reply 124 of 178
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,385member
    Rayz2016 said:
    dachar said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    alandail said:
    bluefire1 said:
    Apple should have known better.
    All they did was fix a problem.  Now they are being sued for fixing it.
    This is true, but all they had to do is look back at all the nonsense written about them for the past twenty years. Then they would have realised not being up front about it, straight away, was going to end badly. 
    Presumably all kinds of improvements are made with each release of iOS. I am not aware that Apple lists everything that they have changed, improved or added. Instead doesn’t Apple provide a summary of some key features that they think are of interest? Perhaps what happened was simply the battery throttling among many many changes was not considered worthy of promotion. 
    I’m sure you’re right, but then you’re not a rabidly insecure Apple hater. My point is that Apple has to be more careful than anyone else because for every customer they delight, there appears to be at least two people who, for whatever reason, would give their souls to see the company fold. I sometimes think that the Apple  does not understand how unpopular they are outside their customer base (and sometimes inside it). 

    It isnt a question of hating Apple or being insecure but rather Apple has a duty to inform.  

    Imagine this what would people think if Ford discovered that their engines would last longer with a software update.   The gotcha here is that you lose. 50% of your performance.  If they rolled out that fix, without telling ayone, there would be hell to pay.   This effectivelybwhat. Apple did.  

    Im sorry but no free rides for Apple on this one.  
    atomic101
  • Reply 125 of 178
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,385member


    wizard69 said:

    bluefire1 said:
    Apple should have known better.
    Exactly.   Apple has nobody but themselves to blame here.   They could have completely avoided this issue by telling users up front what they where doing.
    Get real. We all know it wouldn’t have made any difference, there’d be the same shitstorm by the Niley Patel pro-troll sites, and the army of haters and whiners who complain endlessly on these forums. Maybe you’ve seen them? 
    Im very real here.   I dont care about the trolls what i care about is stupid moves by Apple that cost them money and respect.  The issue with money is that Apple will have to payout significant sums when the right law suit is formulated.   They will have to do that because they dont have a leg to stand on here.  

    Sadly this is something that could have been easily avoided with a bit of text in some release notes.  Frankly im not sure if it is arrogance or stupidity on Apples part but they need to live in the same world as the rest of us.    That means being responsible for the things you do.  

    Frankly i suspect Apple knows that they screwed up from the legal standpoint.   Thus the rapid corrections and appeasements.    Apples best bet here is to try to consolidate these lawsuits and work towards a fast out if court settlement.  
    atomic101
  • Reply 126 of 178
    dewme said:
    feudalist said:
    For F*** sake.. They’re all a pack of whingers... if you don’t like Apple and how they make their phones and IOS.. F*** off and buy an Android. You people are pathetic and think the world owes you everything. Batteries wear out and apple does it’s best to make sure you get the best out of it with a degraded battery. Just STFU AND REPLACE THE BATTERY like normal people do when it’s worn out . With all you litigious A Holes their won’t be an Apple in Years to come
    This is contract issue, they advertise, we buy. Throtling to oblivion, secretly, after the terms are consumed, is breach of contract. Yes, they are obliged to restore device to agreed perfomance minus expected wear&tear. 
    The last statement regarding "contract" brings up a very important point that the courts are going to have to decide on. This applies to this collection of class actions but also the now growing number of class actions against Intel regarding the Meltdown/Spectre issues. Both sets of class actions allege that the members of the class have been damaged due to mitigation steps and workarounds taken to avoid failures (crashes, unintended shutdowns, data loss) or breaches (private information leaks, revelation of secrets). Both sets of class actions specifically identify performance degradation and slowdowns as a damage that's been inflicted upon the members of the class. 

    So the real question that's raised in terms of a "contract" becomes, is there an agreed upon quality of service (QoS) contract between the sellers and buyers of these products when it comes to performance, either qualitatively (what it does) of quantitatively (how fast and how many things it can do at the same time)?  When I look at the end user license agreements (EULA), which I must agree to in order to use these products, in all cases that I can recall they make no QoS promises whatsoever. In fact, most of them pretty much say that everything is sold "as-is" and the seller is not making any promises whatsoever. If you don't like these terms, don't agree to the EULA and return the product. You do read the EULA prior to checking the "I agree" box, don't you?

    Outside of our tech gadget world there are many examples where mitigations or workarounds put in place to protect people or systems from known or anticipated threats have imposed serious QoS degradations on a product or service. None is more obvious than the airline travel service. There was a time when air travel was fun and exciting and only mildly disruptive to your normal routine, schedule, and privacy. With TSA security procedures in place the performance has degraded significantly, privacy is totally absent, and the whole process is onerous and degrading at times. Should we initiate a class action suit against the TSA for breaching an implied contract that airline travel shouldn't totally suck? Maybe this isn't the best example, but it is an example of an instance where things were done to mitigate a threat and the mitigation resulted in a reduced QoS to the consumers of the service.

    I hope that these class actions result in some clarification around what should be considered reasonable (I know, very subjective) ramifications of mitigations performed by the makers/owners of products in cases where a threat must be dealt with. I know everyone will want to spin it in their personal favor. There are as many arguments for a company performing preemptive protection measures in a product as there are against it. Those who say "run my smartphone at full speed and if it crashes - I'm willing to live with it" would be no less likely to try to sue the pants off of the manufacturer if the crash prevented a family member from contacting 911 in-time and someone died.  Perhaps the QoS terms and conditions need to be very explicit, like they are with many critical business systems. Either way, the courts are going to have to deal with this issue because the universal assumption of infinite entitlement that exists in many of today's consumers is not going away any time soon and there are armies of lawyers eager to take up their cases through the risk-free class action suit mechanism.  
    This is clear, easy to understand, very informative. Tnx

    regarding as-is clause, term is aplicable only once, before contract is signed and consumed. It can be used to deflect some responsibility but not all. Manufacturing defect is not that one. This case is revolving about clandestine, after-the-fact activity so, yes, courts will hqve to decide, Apple can argue something about normal wear&tear, chemistry, weather, care, but there is question about costumers claims answered with ‘there is nothing wrong, whink whink at this new one overthere’. That one is most important.
  • Reply 127 of 178
    feudalist said:
    For F*** sake.. They’re all a pack of whingers... if you don’t like Apple and how they make their phones and IOS.. F*** off and buy an Android. You people are pathetic and think the world owes you everything. Batteries wear out and apple does it’s best to make sure you get the best out of it with a degraded battery. Just STFU AND REPLACE THE BATTERY like normal people do when it’s worn out . With all you litigious A Holes their won’t be an Apple in Years to come
    This is contract issue, they advertise, we buy. Throtling to oblivion, secretly, after the terms are consumed, is breach of contract. Yes, they are obliged to restore device to agreed perfomance minus expected wear&tear. 
    You’re making that up, that isn’t what they implemented. If your phone is slowed to oblivion it’s not the peak power draw throttling.
    You are to much attached to single words. Look at little wider. So, there is geekbench anallysis, before 10.2.1 there is only one point - max performance. After, there is more points, some of them in first quarter. Read it - for times less performance. Some users reported having to wait something about ten sec to start camera!! Unusable, then. 
    atomic101
  • Reply 128 of 178
    atomic101 said:
    entropys said:
    Atomic, I doubt your SE is being throttled if your battery is performing at 86% capacity. Have you considered you have an older generation CPU trying to run the latest generation OS?

    I find it fascinating that people buy an older gen device expecting it to last as long as latest gen devices, and perform as well when software optimised for those latest gen, more powerful devices is installed. There is a reason they don’t cost as much.

    also, if you are so desperate to replace the battery in your out of warranty device, there are any number of mall shops that would do it for you. Heck you could do it yourself!
    As I suspected, the denialist mentality in full force.  YES, I did consider the fact that it was an older gen CPU running the latest OS.  That’s what always suspected until I analyzed the situation on my own.  You guys act like anyone who expresses an opinion that is contrary to the Apple party line is ignorant.  I’m a long time hobbyist, tech geek, and even have a minor computer science background.  And my next step WAS to replace the “good” battery myself with an iFixit repair kit since Apple didn’t seem to want my business in an official capacity. Although I’m sure they would have gladly offered me to take a look at an iPhone 8 or X. Now that Apple has been forced to come clean, I will reevaluate the manner of replacement. 

    Read my post. The phone increases its throttle level by battery charge level. What I didn’t mention was that at 100% charge, the CPU is at full speed. Yes.... the full 1850 MHz for the first few minutes of use. By the time the charge drops a few points, we’re at 1500 MHz, and the stutters begin to mount.  Below 90%, it’s usually at 1200 MHz, and from there you can expect it to bounce around from 1200 to 911 MHz until below 70% charge. So for the majority of my day, my phone acts and feels not like a still capable iPhone SE, but like my older iPhone 5S.  The gradual throttling is palpable. I can feel it in the increased lag and stutters as the clock speed decreases. Geekbench and my own fingers prove it. 

    Until upgrading to iOS 11, the phone was perfectly speedy.  No issues with battery life, no jumping battery charge indications, and no unexpected shutdowns. It was very nice of Apple to add this feature to my 15 month old phone to make sure I knew that there was flashy new product on the shelf. 
    Again since you didn’t respond - Hate to burst your conspiracy bubble, but this wasn’t an iOS 11 feature. 10.2.1 or such. So now what do you say? By your own admission your phone was speedy WITH the throttling routine present. 

    Sounds like the “denialist” is you. You’re denying the reality that peak power draw throttle isn’t what’s making your phone slow. 
    Well one thing this proves is how awful iOS 11 has been. I’ve seen numerous posts across tech/rumor sites,  social media etc. from users saying they had no issues with iOS 10 but iOS 11 has been awful. I know I’ve experienced issues on my iPad Pro of the screen being unresponsive, especially in Safari. Never had that issue with iOS 10.
    atomic101
  • Reply 129 of 178
    wizard69 said:
    daven said:
    So the people here wanting to sue would rather have their phones crash when they need more power than the battery can deliver instead of throttled performance during peak demands? You can bet they would sue over that too.
    That is total nonsense.   This is pretty simple kid it is about not being informed as to battery condition and the systems decision to significantly slow the processor down.   In a nut shell it has nothing to do with the battery but rather a company making drastic changes to a functioning device without users or owners knowledge.  

    I really dont understand peoples need to twist the facts here to try to defend Apple.  It isnt the battery aging here nor the tech they implemented to deal with it that is the problem.  The problem is the lack of communications.    In Apples case it is pretty pathetic.   I can imagine a few shareholder law suits to go along with the consummer actions as this sort of behavior isnt well accepted in the business world.   Seriously would you trust your investments with a company so deceptive.  
    I think it goes beyond communication though that’s probably all someone could sue for. Ars Technica has demonstrated that new OS’es don’t run well on older devices. How does Apple decide which devices get the latest OS update? Is the company doing everything possible to ensue the latest OS runs as well as possible on the device it’s decided will receive said OS? Was Phil Schiller or Craig Federighi (or Tim Cook) using iOS 11 on an iPhone 6 during development? And what are the considerations they make as far as how big the battery is going to be, how much RAM the device will get, what features will come to older devices. I think Apple has to look at all of this soup to nuts. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 130 of 178
    larryjwlarryjw Posts: 209member
    kimberly said:

    bluefire1 said:
    Apple should have known better.
    Maybe not "known" but Apple apologised about a week ago for not being more transparent.  As part of the apology, Apple has cut the cost of a replacement battery and committed to provide more visibility (specifics of this were not advised) in relation to the health of a device's battery in a future IOS update.  Missing in the Apple apology was an undertaking to provide the user with an IOS Settings choice 'Throttle/No Throttle & Accept Risks' once the battery performance drops to threshhold ... maybe someone on AI can explain whether giving the user a choice in IOS Settings is problematic.
    Apple said they would update iOS to give users more control and more information. So, there was nothing missing from Apple’s response.

    You know there is a Low Power Mode switch in Settings, right? So, Apple is likely already near the solution to what the Users want to see. 
    atomic101watto_cobra
  • Reply 131 of 178
    atomic101 said:
    atomic101 said:
    entropys said:
    Atomic, I doubt your SE is being throttled if your battery is performing at 86% capacity. Have you considered you have an older generation CPU trying to run the latest generation OS?

    I find it fascinating that people buy an older gen device expecting it to last as long as latest gen devices, and perform as well when software optimised for those latest gen, more powerful devices is installed. There is a reason they don’t cost as much.

    also, if you are so desperate to replace the battery in your out of warranty device, there are any number of mall shops that would do it for you. Heck you could do it yourself!
    Read my post. The phone increases its throttle level by battery charge level. What I didn’t mention was that at 100% charge, the CPU is at full speed. Yes.... the full 1850 MHz for the first few minutes of use. By the time the charge drops a few points, we’re at 1500 MHz, and the stutters begin to mount.  Below 90%, it’s usually at 1200 MHz, and from there you can expect it to bounce around from 1200 to 911 MHz until below 70% charge. So for the majority of my day, my phone acts and feels not like a still capable iPhone SE, but like my older iPhone 5S.  The gradual throttling is palpable. I can feel it in the increased lag and stutters as the clock speed decreases. Geekbench and my own fingers prove it.

    Until upgrading to iOS 11, the phone was perfectly speedy.  No issues with battery life, no jumping battery charge indications, and no unexpected shutdowns. It was very nice of Apple to add this feature to my 15 month old phone to make sure I knew that there was flashy new product on the shelf. 
    Hate to burst your conspiracy bubble, but this wasn’t an iOS 11 feature. 10.2.1 or such. Oops. Now whatcha gonna blame?

    Sounds to me your non-speedy SE is simply older hardware running a new OS and is normal. 
    Gotcha gotcha. The feature initially rolled out for specific phones for a specific bug. Who is to say that Apple hasn't rolled out the feature in more devices and/or tweaked it's characteristics in iOS 11?
    Yes and who is to say the moon's core isn't comprised of braised short ribs?
    Oh brother... I should have known better than to try to bring a dissenting opinion to an Apple apologist forum.  I'm no longer interested in defending myself among a pack of wolves who seem to be fighting to maintain an Apple stock price in light of some very bad press.  Not everyone with a negative comment against an Apple policy is a troll or ignoramus.

    For the few of you on these forums with an open-mind, I thank you for your constructive comments and discussion.  Apple was caught red-handed doing something that was not in line with public expectations of the company.  They are and will continue to suffer the consequences from this aftermath.  I am generally not supportive of the litigious nature of our country, but I feel that some of this blow back is well deserved.  There are many reasonable and intelligent people who agree with this. 

    I will be swapping out my battery in the next few weeks and will return with an update on my situation, but I won't be engaging in any more discussion on this topic until then.

    muthuk_vanalingamsingularitymaxit
  • Reply 132 of 178
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,009member
    For F*** sake.. They’re all a pack of whingers... if you don’t like Apple and how they make their phones and IOS.. F*** off and buy an Android. You people are pathetic and think the world owes you everything. Batteries wear out and apple does it’s best to make sure you get the best out of it with a degraded battery. Just STFU AND REPLACE THE BATTERY like normal people do when it’s worn out . With all you litigious A Holes their won’t be an Apple in Years to come
    This x1000+++!!!!

    If I could upvote this comment more than once I would, couldn't have said it better myself!!!

    For F*** sake.. They’re all a pack of whingers... if you don’t like Apple and how they make their phones and IOS.. F*** off and buy an Android. You people are pathetic and think the world owes you everything. Batteries wear out and apple does it’s best to make sure you get the best out of it with a degraded battery. Just STFU AND REPLACE THE BATTERY like normal people do when it’s worn out . With all you litigious A Holes their won’t be an Apple in Years to come
    Even though I agree with you, rest assured that Apple will be fine. They still make amazing products that millions of people love and trust, and like me, will continue to buy. 
    Indeed... 2017 admittedly saw Apple stumble a bit with the root bug in macOS and the lack of transparency in the disclosure of this LEGITIMATE function which it seems most people are too stupid and ignorant to even try to understand.

    This doesn't change the fact, however, that if you look at the competitors, it makes anyone with their eyes open shiver at the prospect of switching to them, and I will gladly stay with Apple and their technology for as long as I can.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 133 of 178
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,009member
    feudalist said:
    feudalist said:
    For F*** sake.. They’re all a pack of whingers... if you don’t like Apple and how they make their phones and IOS.. F*** off and buy an Android. You people are pathetic and think the world owes you everything. Batteries wear out and apple does it’s best to make sure you get the best out of it with a degraded battery. Just STFU AND REPLACE THE BATTERY like normal people do when it’s worn out . With all you litigious A Holes their won’t be an Apple in Years to come
    This is contract issue, they advertise, we buy. Throtling to oblivion, secretly, after the terms are consumed, is breach of contract. Yes, they are obliged to restore device to agreed perfomance minus expected wear&tear. 
    You’re making that up, that isn’t what they implemented. If your phone is slowed to oblivion it’s not the peak power draw throttling.
    You are to much attached to single words. Look at little wider. So, there is geekbench anallysis, before 10.2.1 there is only one point - max performance. After, there is more points, some of them in first quarter. Read it - for times less performance. Some users reported having to wait something about ten sec to start camera!! Unusable, then. 
    I love how uninformed and technically simple-minded folk such as yourself cling to benchmark results as gospel for explaining your uninformed conclusions...

    What is the definition of a performance benchmark?

    It means what a certain piece of technology can achieve performance wise when pushed to it's limit.

    Now, hold that thought for a moment...

    Apple is throttling the SoC whilst it performs tasks needing full speed, as these states cause voltage spikes on the power supply. Thus, since a benchmark is artificially designed to push the equipment to maximum performance, a benchmark will also artificially exasperate the throttling condition that iOS was DESIGNED to implement to prevent the device from crashing and losing data due to a power loss.

    Also, during the initial days and weeks after the iOS 11 launch, I too experienced noticeable drops in performance and responsiveness, but unlike most, I decided to attempt to narrow down the cause, and not jump on the Bad Apple bandwagon... Turns out, three of my apps were not properly updated to support iOS 11, and were maxing out my 6S+'s A9 chip to nearly 100%, even with the apps in the background. This was turning on the throttling of the CPU, and also causing a spike in battery drain.

    Guess what happened when I force closed those apps? My CPU usage dropped to an average idle of 3-6%, which is the norm for an A9-equipped iOS device. Magically, frame rates of the iOS interface returned to a buttery-smooth 60fps, battery usage returned to normal, and throttling subsided.

    Working in tech support, I can tell you from my years of experience, that the vast majority of people who use both iOS and Android devices, NEVER close their apps from the task switcher, and many don't even know it exists or what the significance of it is. Even fewer still know of the options to control Background App Refresh in the Settings -> General area. Some of these people came to me complaining they want to join the class action lawsuits because their phone was stuttering, and when I checked the task switcher, I found apps that were misbehaving, and when I closed them, the phone returned to normal operation. Yet those people believed this wasn't the cause of the issue (even though I'd just proven it was), and still wanted to sue Apple, at which point I told them to leave and not ask me for help if they are unwilling to learn what is the actual problem.

    The point I'm trying to make, is too many times people are fed incomplete and inaccurate BS by mainstream media, and go with it without doing any fact checking on their own, and believed this was purely an Apple-implemented issue, without even stopping to think for one second it could actually be caused by third-party apps behaving badly on a new version of iOS. The VAST majority of iPhone's and iPad's I've looked at with performance issues were ALL resolved by closing and even deleting these bad apps. And the rest were resolved with new batteries, as their cycle counts were high and were deteriorated, and people didn't think they needed replacing, ever.

    atomic101 said:
    atomic101 said:
    atomic101 said:
    entropys said:
    Atomic, I doubt your SE is being throttled if your battery is performing at 86% capacity. Have you considered you have an older generation CPU trying to run the latest generation OS?

    I find it fascinating that people buy an older gen device expecting it to last as long as latest gen devices, and perform as well when software optimised for those latest gen, more powerful devices is installed. There is a reason they don’t cost as much.

    also, if you are so desperate to replace the battery in your out of warranty device, there are any number of mall shops that would do it for you. Heck you could do it yourself!
    Read my post. The phone increases its throttle level by battery charge level. What I didn’t mention was that at 100% charge, the CPU is at full speed. Yes.... the full 1850 MHz for the first few minutes of use. By the time the charge drops a few points, we’re at 1500 MHz, and the stutters begin to mount.  Below 90%, it’s usually at 1200 MHz, and from there you can expect it to bounce around from 1200 to 911 MHz until below 70% charge. So for the majority of my day, my phone acts and feels not like a still capable iPhone SE, but like my older iPhone 5S.  The gradual throttling is palpable. I can feel it in the increased lag and stutters as the clock speed decreases. Geekbench and my own fingers prove it.

    Until upgrading to iOS 11, the phone was perfectly speedy.  No issues with battery life, no jumping battery charge indications, and no unexpected shutdowns. It was very nice of Apple to add this feature to my 15 month old phone to make sure I knew that there was flashy new product on the shelf. 
    Hate to burst your conspiracy bubble, but this wasn’t an iOS 11 feature. 10.2.1 or such. Oops. Now whatcha gonna blame?

    Sounds to me your non-speedy SE is simply older hardware running a new OS and is normal. 
    Gotcha gotcha. The feature initially rolled out for specific phones for a specific bug. Who is to say that Apple hasn't rolled out the feature in more devices and/or tweaked it's characteristics in iOS 11?
    Yes and who is to say the moon's core isn't comprised of braised short ribs?
    Oh brother... I should have known better than to try to bring a dissenting opinion to an Apple apologist forum.  I'm no longer interested in defending myself among a pack of wolves who seem to be fighting to maintain an Apple stock price in light of some very bad press.  Not everyone with a negative comment against an Apple policy is a troll or ignoramus.

    For the few of you on these forums with an open-mind, I thank you for your constructive comments and discussion.  Apple was caught red-handed doing something that was not in line with public expectations of the company.  They are and will continue to suffer the consequences from this aftermath.  I am generally not supportive of the litigious nature of our country, but I feel that some of this blow back is well deserved.  There are many reasonable and intelligent people who agree with this. 

    I will be swapping out my battery in the next few weeks and will return with an update on my situation, but I won't be engaging in any more discussion on this topic until then.

    "Apple apologist forum", "pack of wolves", do you hear yourself? PLENTY of people here have tried to explain to you, some in great detail, of what is actually happening, and all you've done is attack them, call them names, stereotype them, and be dismissive out of hand. And you think people here won't catch on to your attitude and call you out for it?

    Look at my response to feudalist above, and perhaps learn something new...
    watto_cobramuthuk_vanalingamStrangeDays
  • Reply 134 of 178
    maxitmaxit Posts: 196member
    Rayz2016 said:
    kimberly said:

     Missing in the Apple apology was an undertaking to provide the user with an IOS Settings choice 'Throttle/No Throttle & Accept Risks' once the battery performance drops to threshhold ... maybe someone on AI can explain whether giving the user a choice in IOS Settings is problematic.
    Because the number of people who would prefer to have their phone crash unexpectedly rather than slow down occasionally due to an ageing battery is  very small.

    I think it's worth pointing out that this "slowing down" only occurs when the battery needs replacing, and even then it is only when the battery (the one that needs replacing) cannot cope with load demanded by the processor. In reality, few users run their phone's processor at full pelt all the time. 
    Unfortunately Apple isn’t giving the whole story here... I personally witnessed a less than a year old iPhone throttled (30% lower Geekbench score) with a battery whose health was assessed at 92% by an Apple genius at the Store...
  • Reply 135 of 178
    maxitmaxit Posts: 196member
    mr. h said:
    ivanh said:
    3. Not mentioned by any battery-gate article editors that all lithium-ion batteries have their own circuit processors managing the batteries.
    Correct.
    ivanh said:
    It should not be the iOS business to throttle it.
    Not correct. There is nothing that the on-battery circuitry can do with regards the internal resistance of the cells. It is inevitable that if the iPhone circuitry draws too large a peak current on an old battery with high internal impedance, its output voltage will drop excessively and cause a shutdown. The throttling is used to prevent such peak current draw.

    chia said:
    ivanh said:
    1. Capacity depleted up to 20% of design should not fail to deliver peak power required by the iPhone;

    2. Running down to 30% energy left after a full charge will still provide peak power required by any iPhone;

    These are quite specific determinations and expectations.  Any citations?

    Are they based on science, observation, experience or expert opinion; that of an electronic/electrical engineer or a cut and paster?
    +1

    Correct, but, again, it’s not happening only on old batteries (unless you can refer to an 8 months old battery as an old battery).
    at least this software feature is very poorly implemented, but at this point I’m not sure Apple is being completely honest with this issue.
  • Reply 136 of 178
    maxitmaxit Posts: 196member
    revenant said:
    this is utter nonsense. imagine the people who would have complained and sued if the phones started just not working.  

    if the battery is over a year old, apple legally has no responsibility to anyone. 

    apple should have said something and not let it be hidden. 

    lithium ion batteries were NEVER supposed to last forever.

    apple sadly needs to educate those who would buy their products that nothing lasts forever.
    There is an huge difference between “forever” and “just one year”...
  • Reply 137 of 178
    According to PatentlyApple, there are now 27 (and counting, I'm sure) Class Action Lawsuits about the battery slowdown issue.
    edited January 8
  • Reply 138 of 178
    maxitmaxit Posts: 196member
    kimberly said:

    bluefire1 said:
    Apple should have known better.
    Maybe not "known" but Apple apologised about a week ago for not being more transparent.  As part of the apology, Apple has cut the cost of a replacement battery and committed to provide more visibility (specifics of this were not advised) in relation to the health of a device's battery in a future IOS update.  Missing in the Apple apology was an undertaking to provide the user with an IOS Settings choice 'Throttle/No Throttle & Accept Risks' once the battery performance drops to threshhold ... maybe someone on AI can explain whether giving the user a choice in IOS Settings is problematic.
    Why would Apple do that? As the owner of the device you have total and absolute control on your hardware. If you want a device tailored to your taste beyond what Apple provides, you just re-program your device and put in it the settings you want. The documentation is public, the tools are free you can write and install any program on your iPhone, Apple does not prevent that and it cannot review apps installed outside the AppStore mechanism. If you do not want to program then just hire a programmer. Does your computer offer you a choice to control the throttling?

    I don't talk on behalf of AI but here is my explanation: Apple already alerts the user with a "service battery" notice in the Settings app, right? Once this notice appears the valid action given all the conceivable technical realities is to service the battery. The throttling is not a cure, it is just a necessary measure to keep your iPhone in working order, to keep the iPhone in a serviceable state. The throttling does not mitigate the need to service the battery. If the iPhone with a such a battery is not throttled then it will shut down unexpectedly. And those shut downs pose more risks than throttling to the user regarding the serviceability of the device and the integrity of the device data. Even a single uncontrolled shut down may totally brick the device, to end up with logic board replacement.
    Unfortunately the “service battery” notice kicks in much later than the throttling...
  • Reply 139 of 178
    maxitmaxit Posts: 196member

    feudalist said:
    alandail said:
    bluefire1 said:
    Apple should have known better.
    All they did was fix a problem.  Now they are being sued for fixing it.
    No, they did not fix anything. They buried, and now they want as to pay twice for design flaw. 
    This is not about aged or depleted batteries because in that case it is implicated that iphone is no better than for a year or so of mild use. This is about tipical apple product: well designed, well built, durable and dependable. Usually best in class. But no more. After only one year we are req. to spend another 80 bucks for own property to retain performance. No, that’s not apple and I’m not willing to accept that kind of usefull life of most expensive product in its class. You should not either
    Ignorant nonsense full of half truths and outright lies. Congratulations on your first post. 

    One year of casual use will not cause your battery to fail the impedance checks as you claim. Nor will above casual use as most of us can attest to. You’d have to run 2-3 full charge cycles a day to wear down your battery that far. 

    Go troll your FUD elsewhere.
    Are you absolutely sure about that ? Because I saw something very different, and as a big Apple fanboy I was shocked. A throttled iPhone SE, 8 months old. We took the phone to the Apple store and they told us the battery was absolutely fine, with 92% health reported. So why the throttling? The genius wasn’t able to provide for an explanation and told us it was just ok...
    muthuk_vanalingamatomic101
  • Reply 140 of 178
    maxitmaxit Posts: 196member

    feudalist said:
    Ignorant nonsense full of half truths and outright lies. Congratulations on your first post. 

    One year of casual use will not cause your battery to fail the impedance checks as you claim. Nor will above casual use as most of us can attest to. You’d have to run 2-3 full charge cycles a day to wear down your battery that far. 
    Set aside 6/6s. I have iphone 7, so far so good. But, can you explain something. When apple pushed iOS 11.2, almost all 7’s was covered with warranty. Users on reddit reported cases when they had batteries with 90-ish remaing capacity, allready throtled, got to apple only to hear that they batteries fine, that there is no any problem, they even refused to change battteries at owners cost. Suddenly, after reddit story go wild, apple is in sorry folks, we apologize. 
    I don’t have any problem with battery age, they are consumables. But in first year of use and without clear customer support policy regarding issue? For some eastern brands for half or quarter price of iphone - its acceptable, but not for APPLE and 800 USD. I’m from EU, we have consumer protection law, two year warranty is mandatory minimum. How low cost chinese brands can do bussines here but apple can’t?  Why secrecy? I’ll tell you - because this is design flaw and number of affected units is in tens of millions so there is considerable buttom line hit. 

    I’m very happy iphone user, I simply love them, but this is not acceptable behavior. No need for insults, don’t worry about me, think what you want. 

    Time will tell...
    iPhone 7 models with 90% battery health aren’t being throttled. You simply have no idea what you’re talking about and are commenting on comments and not facts. 
    Unfortunately I saw that happening personally... and I was shocked. And it was 92% battery health (assessed by Apple, not by a third party app).
    stop being so aggressive. We are loyal Apple customers like you. I’m an Apple customer since 1989 and I have only Apple hardware in my house.
    atomic101
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