A year with MacBook Pro: reviewing Apple's 2017 pro laptop models

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  • Reply 101 of 241
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 904member
    mcdave said:
    Funny how all-USB-C stopped being a problem, once the Windows vendors caught up.


    The awesome news is that we'll no longer need to buy Apple power adapters. We can now get third party adapters or get power from other devices. This will effectively make power adapters interchangeable between Macs and PCs.
    But it would be good to have a magnetic ‘snap off’ USB-C plug for power.
  • Reply 102 of 241
    croprcropr Posts: 794member

    In all fairness, the lack of 32GB on any model and 4-Cores on the 13" are squarely on Intel. They have a low-power 4-core chip perfect for the 13" but that just arrived this year. This cannot go on much longer. I'd really like to have something new by this time next year or sooner, preferably before Xmas.
    If the 32GB is purely the fault of Intel, how does Dell manage to have 32GB in some of the XPS configurations ?

    In my company we have standardized on a mix of Dell XPS and MacbookPro machines.   Back-end SW developers who need lots of RAM for testing and simulating, are now all using Dell (with Linux)


  • Reply 103 of 241
    SoliSoli Posts: 7,683member
    mcdave said:
    mcdave said:
    Funny how all-USB-C stopped being a problem, once the Windows vendors caught up.


    The awesome news is that we'll no longer need to buy Apple power adapters. We can now get third party adapters or get power from other devices. This will effectively make power adapters interchangeable between Macs and PCs.
    But it would be good to have a magnetic ‘snap off’ USB-C plug for power.
    How power cables were designed (no longer a 1" rod with 1/2" cylinder sticking into your laptop), the longevity of laptop batteries, and the weight of laptops back when MagSafe first hit the market has changed dramatically, but if one still needs a more break-away power cable than what USB-C can provide there are several 3rd-party solutions available.

    My suggestion is that it's probably more effective to put them at the PSU end of the cable since that's probably closest to where any tension may occur, but it would be a case-by-case basis. Maybe one is more worries about a pet biting the cable and pulling on it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    PS: One non-intended feature of getting a magnetically-attached break-away USB-C cable is that it will only transmit power so you're protected by any future public USB-C ports which may be compromised and try to inject data onto your device through an exploit.
  • Reply 104 of 241
    SoliSoli Posts: 7,683member
    cropr said:

    In all fairness, the lack of 32GB on any model and 4-Cores on the 13" are squarely on Intel. They have a low-power 4-core chip perfect for the 13" but that just arrived this year. This cannot go on much longer. I'd really like to have something new by this time next year or sooner, preferably before Xmas.
    If the 32GB is purely the fault of Intel, how does Dell manage to have 32GB in some of the XPS configurations ?
    Those laptops weren't using LPDDR4 RAM.
    StrangeDayspscooter63
  • Reply 105 of 241
    croprcropr Posts: 794member
    dm3 said:
    As an owner of 2017 15" MacBook Pro w Touch Bar and 2016 13" MacBook Pro without Touch Bar, I generally agree.

    My biggest issue is that the trackpad is TOO LARGE on both. I very often get erroneous cursor jumps because my palm touches the trackpad and I'm suddenly typing in the wrong area. I wish there was a software way to reduce its size or somehow improve its ability to detect erroneous touches.

    Touch Bar is useless. I MUCH prefer the MBP without Touch Bar. Its too much effort to have to look at the touch bar and figure out what the choices are and where they are. Its much too easy to accidentally touch something on the bar without realizing. There's no tactile feedback to know it happened.
    My biggest complaint about the TouchBar is the lack of tactile feedback of the Esc key.     90% of the software I am using makes frequently use of the Esc key.  This key alone creates a drop in productivity vs. the non TouchBar models. 
  • Reply 106 of 241
    croprcropr Posts: 794member
    Soli said:
    cropr said:

    In all fairness, the lack of 32GB on any model and 4-Cores on the 13" are squarely on Intel. They have a low-power 4-core chip perfect for the 13" but that just arrived this year. This cannot go on much longer. I'd really like to have something new by this time next year or sooner, preferably before Xmas.
    If the 32GB is purely the fault of Intel, how does Dell manage to have 32GB in some of the XPS configurations ?
    Those laptops weren't using LPDDR4 RAM.
    That is a totally irrelevant technical detail, when one needs a lot of RAM
  • Reply 107 of 241
    tmaytmay Posts: 2,760member
    cropr said:
    Soli said:
    cropr said:

    In all fairness, the lack of 32GB on any model and 4-Cores on the 13" are squarely on Intel. They have a low-power 4-core chip perfect for the 13" but that just arrived this year. This cannot go on much longer. I'd really like to have something new by this time next year or sooner, preferably before Xmas.
    If the 32GB is purely the fault of Intel, how does Dell manage to have 32GB in some of the XPS configurations ?
    Those laptops weren't using LPDDR4 RAM.
    That is a totally irrelevant technical detail, when one needs a lot of RAM
    Battery life is kind of a big deal for the particular market that the MacBookPro is designed to, so yeah, the choice of LPDDR4 memory is an especially relevant technical detail. 

    More to the point, you seem to be quite happy buying Dells and running Linux, with a mix of MacBookPro's. Why the sad?
    edited June 25 SoliStrangeDayspscooter63
  • Reply 108 of 241
    SoliSoli Posts: 7,683member
    cropr said:
    Soli said:
    cropr said:

    In all fairness, the lack of 32GB on any model and 4-Cores on the 13" are squarely on Intel. They have a low-power 4-core chip perfect for the 13" but that just arrived this year. This cannot go on much longer. I'd really like to have something new by this time next year or sooner, preferably before Xmas.
    If the 32GB is purely the fault of Intel, how does Dell manage to have 32GB in some of the XPS configurations ?
    Those laptops weren't using LPDDR4 RAM.
    That is a totally irrelevant technical detail, when one needs a lot of RAM
    It's not irrelevant. There's a core difference in the power draw between DDR and LPDDR. Apple doesn't use DDR in any of their laptops and to expect that that they should because Dell does is poor thinking. This notion that "Dell does it so Apple should do it" is as foolish as looking at a 10lb gaming laptop with a desktop-grade CPU and 1 hour battery life and saying "Alienware does it so Apple should do it."

    As it's been shown repeatedly macOS is more efficient when it comes to managing RAM and the use cases for needing more than 16 GiB of RAM at the expense of battery life are fringe cases. It may very well be what think you need, but don't claim that it's what Apple needs to do because WinPC vendors are throwing shit at a wall.
    tmayStrangeDays
  • Reply 109 of 241
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 4,942member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    avon b7 said:
    The Touchbar in itself wasn't a mistake but making it the only option (at a speculated $300 increase) on pricing definitely was.
    How much should it be for a very custom OLED display powered by Apple designed silicon running its own version of OS X built from a stripped down version of watchOS that  also contains a Secure Element and Secure Enclave for Touch ID and Apple Pay?
    Try $0.

    Make a 15" non-TouchBar version. Not everyone needs ANY of that but the Matebook X Pro also manages a 5-second cold boot to login with secure enclave.
    All that technology costs nothing. Got it. Well, at least you're showing your true colors today.
    OK. I will try a second time:

    "The Touchbar in itself wasn't a mistake but making it the only option (at a speculated $300 increase) on pricing definitely was."

    That means I don't care if it cost 1,000€. My problem with the current lineup is that if you want a 15" model you have to swallow the cost - whatever it may be.

    The problem is not how much it costs or how much it is worth. The problem is that if you don't need it, you still have to pay for it. 
    Good news!

    You aren't required to replace your old Mac Book Pro with another Mac!

    Buy yourself the Matebook X Pro!
    Yes, that's why competition is good. You can pick up an excellent machine is more than a match for the current MBP for $700 less.

    There comes a point when paying over the top by that amount makes you reconsider how well spent your money is and whether macOS is worth it. Put global design decisions on top of that (like a problematic keyboard) and you end up asking yourself how seriously Apple has dropped the ball.

    I complained about the wholesale switch to USB-C, not for being anti USB-C in any way whatsoever but because of the decision to leave users with no native connections to devices ALL of them already had. It was simply unnecessary but Apple took a decision for all of its users and they had to jump through that unnecessary hoop if they wanted a new MBP.

    The criticism surrounding that decision was howling bad criticism but some people just have to defend Apple at every turning point and justify the decision somehow, so the 'legacy' port was born and the 'future was here'.

    The truth is that if Apple had released a fatter MBP with standard ports plus USB-C, nobody would have batted an eyelid. NOBODY. The people who defended the change to USB-C only would not have criticised anything about it. So much for 'legacy' and 'the future'.

    Those people are far more interested in defending Apple than objectively looking at the situation.

    So. Wholesale switching to USB-C was unnecessary at the time. Even now the market is still flooded with routers with ethernet, display devices with HDMI and disks with USB 3. That is the reality. The future then was really the present and still is.

    How much did docks cost back then? I remember lots in the $200+ range. Including a port adaptor in the box would have been a great decision considering the ultra premium pricing of the new machines. Not least because the 15" model came with a TouchBar that already added a couple of hundred dollars to the starting price whether you wanted it or not. Two years later and how many people can truly say they are getting their money's worth out of that? At least the 13" model gave you an option without a the TB. 

    So, no adaptor in the box to cover those unnecessary design changes. But wait, Huawei produced their first laptop, included a dock in the box AND made the keyboard spillproof!

    That was last year. Now they have released the Pro version (including a dock and spillproof keyboard again) and crammed a beautiful 14" display into a 13" machine AND found room for discrete graphics AND and USB-A port. Who would have thought that such things would still be necessary almost two years after the new generation MBPs!

    Perhaps if everybody considered the competition, Apple would look beyond its own bellybutton and, you know, compete and perhaps also throw a bone to users like me who remember great machines at competitive prices.

    That said, I happen to be in the group that sees a new machine in the pipe for this year (would they dare pull an iMac con and sell the exact same machine during TWO Xmas seasons? - I doubt it) but it better have a debris proof keyboard and thin bezels for starters.

    Hey, copy Huawei if necessary ;-)

    https://www.thurrott.com/hardware/161876/huawei-matebook-x-pro-review

    I'm in no hurry right now but with the competition pulling so far ahead on almost every level (I think the trackpad is the last remaining bastion for the MBP right now) yes, you have to at least consider other offerings to put Apple's pricing into perspective.
    Nah, the switch to USB-C wasn’t a problem. You’re the same sort of person who complained when macs lead the adoption of USB over serial and parallel ports. Yawn. 

    Also, your knockoff notebook still sucks — doesn’t run macOS. But you don’t even one one of those so I find your championing of a product you don’t own over that of another product you don’t own very telling. 
    Yes. I complained big time about the iMac situation with regards to USB. That was perhaps the classic way of how NOT to transition from a user perspective. Especially as around that time Apple was using personality cards to address certain needs and the iMac had a mezzanine slot.

    The iMac shipped in Europe, late and expensive with exactly one USB printer available. It was a terrible time.

    tmaympschaefer
  • Reply 110 of 241
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 4,942member

    KITA said:

    Also, your knockoff notebook still sucks — doesn’t run macOS. 
    Jumping in here. Saying something "sucks" because it doesn't run macOS is just nonsense. It can run Windows and Linux, both are perfectly capable operating systems with vast ecosystems.

    Even putting the OS aside, as a piece of hardware, the MateBook X Pro is undoubtedly superior to the 13inch MacBook Pro. It's better is almost every way.




    Nope. It's perfectly valid to say "Your laptop which can't run macOS sucks for it". Hardware is half of the equation, software is the other. If you can't run macOS, it sucks. I can run the suckier Windows on my Mac, so that's another plus for it over a Windows knockoff notebook, which can't run macOS.
  • Reply 111 of 241
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 4,942member

    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    avon b7 said:
    The Touchbar in itself wasn't a mistake but making it the only option (at a speculated $300 increase) on pricing definitely was.
    How much should it be for a very custom OLED display powered by Apple designed silicon running its own version of OS X built from a stripped down version of watchOS that  also contains a Secure Element and Secure Enclave for Touch ID and Apple Pay?
    Try $0.

    Make a 15" non-TouchBar version. Not everyone needs ANY of that but the Matebook X Pro also manages a 5-second cold boot to login with secure enclave.
    All that technology costs nothing. Got it. Well, at least you're showing your true colors today.
    OK. I will try a second time:

    "The Touchbar in itself wasn't a mistake but making it the only option (at a speculated $300 increase) on pricing definitely was."

    That means I don't care if it cost 1,000€. My problem with the current lineup is that if you want a 15" model you have to swallow the cost - whatever it may be.

    The problem is not how much it costs or how much it is worth. The problem is that if you don't need it, you still have to pay for it. 
    Good news!

    You aren't required to replace your old Mac Book Pro with another Mac!

    Buy yourself the Matebook X Pro!
    Yes, that's why competition is good. You can pick up an excellent machine is more than a match for the current MBP for $700 less.

    There comes a point when paying over the top by that amount makes you reconsider how well spent your money is and whether macOS is worth it. Put global design decisions on top of that (like a problematic keyboard) and you end up asking yourself how seriously Apple has dropped the ball.

    I complained about the wholesale switch to USB-C, not for being anti USB-C in any way whatsoever but because of the decision to leave users with no native connections to devices ALL of them already had. It was simply unnecessary but Apple took a decision for all of its users and they had to jump through that unnecessary hoop if they wanted a new MBP.

    The criticism surrounding that decision was howling bad criticism but some people just have to defend Apple at every turning point and justify the decision somehow, so the 'legacy' port was born and the 'future was here'.

    The truth is that if Apple had released a fatter MBP with standard ports plus USB-C, nobody would have batted an eyelid. NOBODY. The people who defended the change to USB-C only would not have criticised anything about it. So much for 'legacy' and 'the future'.

    Those people are far more interested in defending Apple than objectively looking at the situation.

    So. Wholesale switching to USB-C was unnecessary at the time. Even now the market is still flooded with routers with ethernet, display devices with HDMI and disks with USB 3. That is the reality. The future then was really the present and still is.

    How much did docks cost back then? I remember lots in the $200+ range. Including a port adaptor in the box would have been a great decision considering the ultra premium pricing of the new machines. Not least because the 15" model came with a TouchBar that already added a couple of hundred dollars to the starting price whether you wanted it or not. Two years later and how many people can truly say they are getting their money's worth out of that? At least the 13" model gave you an option without a the TB. 

    So, no adaptor in the box to cover those unnecessary design changes. But wait, Huawei produced their first laptop, included a dock in the box AND made the keyboard spillproof!

    That was last year. Now they have released the Pro version (including a dock and spillproof keyboard again) and crammed a beautiful 14" display into a 13" machine AND found room for discrete graphics AND and USB-A port. Who would have thought that such things would still be necessary almost two years after the new generation MBPs!

    Perhaps if everybody considered the competition, Apple would look beyond its own bellybutton and, you know, compete and perhaps also throw a bone to users like me who remember great machines at competitive prices.

    That said, I happen to be in the group that sees a new machine in the pipe for this year (would they dare pull an iMac con and sell the exact same machine during TWO Xmas seasons? - I doubt it) but it better have a debris proof keyboard and thin bezels for starters.

    Hey, copy Huawei if necessary ;-)

    https://www.thurrott.com/hardware/161876/huawei-matebook-x-pro-review

    I'm in no hurry right now but with the competition pulling so far ahead on almost every level (I think the trackpad is the last remaining bastion for the MBP right now) yes, you have to at least consider other offerings to put Apple's pricing into perspective.
    Nah, the switch to USB-C wasn’t a problem. You’re the same sort of person who complained when macs lead the adoption of USB over serial and parallel ports. Yawn. 

    Also, your knockoff notebook still sucks — doesn’t run macOS. But you don’t even one one of those so I find your championing of a product you don’t own over that of another product you don’t own very telling. 
    According to Avon b7, he owns an older Mac Book Pro running a very old OS so that he has access to Rosetta...

    He also runs older iPad Mini 2 and iPad 4 running older iOS.

    He stated explicitly that he likes the iPads, but dislikes iOS.

    I may have some of those details off, but you get the gist of it.

    Why this guy hangs around here pushing Huawei astounds me. 

    I'm guessing retirement.
  • Reply 112 of 241
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 1,544member
    Eric_WVGG said:
    “At first, USB-C solutions were scarce, but if you take a look at Amazon today, the online marketplace is flooded with cables, adapters, high-speed SD Card readers and more.” There is still not one actual USB-C hub available for sale anywhere.
    How many ports do you need? Here’s one with two USB-C and two USB-A:

    https://www.amazon.com/komkaer-Aluminum-Multiport-Delivery-Chromebook/dp/B079BJRRHH/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&qid=1529958002&sr=8-24&keywords=Multiple+usb-c+hub
  • Reply 113 of 241
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 4,942member
    cropr said:
    Soli said:
    cropr said:

    In all fairness, the lack of 32GB on any model and 4-Cores on the 13" are squarely on Intel. They have a low-power 4-core chip perfect for the 13" but that just arrived this year. This cannot go on much longer. I'd really like to have something new by this time next year or sooner, preferably before Xmas.
    If the 32GB is purely the fault of Intel, how does Dell manage to have 32GB in some of the XPS configurations ?
    Those laptops weren't using LPDDR4 RAM.
    That is a totally irrelevant technical detail, when one needs a lot of RAM
    It is when using a *mobile* computer, like a notebook. If you need power *at all costs* then what you want is a desktop.
    Solifastasleeptmay
  • Reply 114 of 241
    KITAKITA Posts: 122member
    StrangeDays said:

    If you can't run macOS, it sucks. 
    I see you replied with more nonsense.
  • Reply 115 of 241
    SoliSoli Posts: 7,683member
    KITA said:
    StrangeDays said:

    If you can't run macOS, it sucks. 
    I see you replied with more nonsense.
    What exactly do you think is nonsense about the OS being an important factor when determining which type of machine works best for your workflow?

    Apple moving to Intel changed that since you no longer had to choose one or the other, but this was very much the case back in the PPC days when Windows was needed for a great number of apps and emulation (not virtualization) software was too slow to be a good solution.

    When Apple starts incorporating ARM-based Macs into the lineup you can say that those entry-level machines aren't not good solutions for those that need Windows to run natively or virtualization* and you'll have a good argument for why their Pro machines that are still using Intel's architecture have certain benefits for those that need—or may need—multiple OSes on the same PC.

    Personally, I have been using Macs for headless media server appliances for a long time. I could effectively do the same with Windows, Linux, and even with a Raspberry Pi setup, but I get a lot of benefit from macOS because of the many Automator workflows I have running on the system that I built/wrote (I'm not a coder so I couldn't effectively do the same in, say, Perl on Linux) that, well, automate a great deal of the things I need to get done and do so flawlessly, work with Time Machine, have seamless remote access, and have required me to spend little to no money on additional apps or additional time because it's mostly all built-in and just works. Now why exactly should the OS not be an important consideration in my decision making process?

    * Assuming that Apple doesn't offer any native x86_64 virtualization or Boot Camp for Windows RT; both of which I think are unlikely.
    edited June 25 StrangeDayspscooter63Rayz2016
  • Reply 116 of 241
    KITAKITA Posts: 122member
    Soli said:
    KITA said:
    StrangeDays said:

    If you can't run macOS, it sucks. 
    I see you replied with more nonsense.
    What exactly do you think is nonsense about the OS being an important factor when determining which type of machine works best for your workflow?

    Apple moving to Intel changed that since you no longer had to choose one or the other, but this was very much the case back in the PPC days when Windows was needed for a great number of apps and emulation (not virtualization) software was too slow to be a good solution.

    When Apple starts incorporating ARM-based Macs into the lineup you can say that those entry-level machines aren't not good solutions for those that need Windows to run natively or virtualization* and you'll have a good argument for why their Pro machines that are still using Intel's architecture have certain benefits for those that need—or may need—multiple OSes on the same PC.


    * Assuming that Apple doesn't offer any native x86_64 virtualization or Boot Camp for Windows RT; both of which I think are unlikely.
    The OS can be important for work flow, but making a blanket statement that a device "sucks" because it can't run a particular OS when no use case has been defined, that's just nonsense.
  • Reply 117 of 241
    SoliSoli Posts: 7,683member
    KITA said:
    Soli said:
    KITA said:
    StrangeDays said:

    If you can't run macOS, it sucks. 
    I see you replied with more nonsense.
    What exactly do you think is nonsense about the OS being an important factor when determining which type of machine works best for your workflow?

    Apple moving to Intel changed that since you no longer had to choose one or the other, but this was very much the case back in the PPC days when Windows was needed for a great number of apps and emulation (not virtualization) software was too slow to be a good solution.

    When Apple starts incorporating ARM-based Macs into the lineup you can say that those entry-level machines aren't not good solutions for those that need Windows to run natively or virtualization* and you'll have a good argument for why their Pro machines that are still using Intel's architecture have certain benefits for those that need—or may need—multiple OSes on the same PC.


    * Assuming that Apple doesn't offer any native x86_64 virtualization or Boot Camp for Windows RT; both of which I think are unlikely.
    The OS can be important for work flow, but making a blanket statement that a device "sucks" because it can't run a particular OS when no use case has been defined, that's just nonsense.
    As a general rule, sure. I doubt that StrangeDays would say that macOS is the best solution for running, say, an enterprise server, but let's keep in mind that 1) this is an Apple-focused forum, and 2) you came in here pimping something facepalmingly called the MateBook X Pro and deemed it "undoubtedly superior" after excluding the OS from the equation as if the OS isn't an important consideration. I'd say you stepped into it.
    fastasleepRayz2016
  • Reply 118 of 241
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,336member
    cropr said:
    Soli said:
    cropr said:

    In all fairness, the lack of 32GB on any model and 4-Cores on the 13" are squarely on Intel. They have a low-power 4-core chip perfect for the 13" but that just arrived this year. This cannot go on much longer. I'd really like to have something new by this time next year or sooner, preferably before Xmas.
    If the 32GB is purely the fault of Intel, how does Dell manage to have 32GB in some of the XPS configurations ?
    Those laptops weren't using LPDDR4 RAM.
    That is a totally irrelevant technical detail, when one needs a lot of RAM
    It is when using a *mobile* computer, like a notebook. If you need power *at all costs* then what you want is a desktop.
    Nonsense:wink: :

    https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/dell-precision-5520

    "Epic battery life"

    Just as Apple had the 17" 'mobile computers' (that most who ever owned one absolutely adored btw) despite the bulkiness that 17" brought, if you need 32GB of RAM AND mobility, it can be done. To be specific, I think Dell has had 32GB capable mobile computers for many years now.

    Yes, 32GB will eventually filter down into more lightweight, and even more energy efficient machines but as cropr clearly stated, the option is out there if you need that RAM (for whatever the reason). The Dells are also rugged specced too, I believe.

    There is no technical reason Apple couldn't do it. Throwing out the 'but it isn't low power RAM' counter, doesn't cut it. First, the machine would have been designed with battery life in mind and second, ALL potential buyers of such a machine would be perfectly well aware of why it didn't have the form factor of an ultrabook.

    That is a design philosophy not a technical one. 

    The 2016/17 MBPs were designed to be thin. That was clearly a design goal. There were rumours of dissenting voices within Apple on that issue. No doubt the details will float to the surface at some point.

    Your point that a laptop 'sucks' if it doesn't run macOS is strange in a world that is so cloud connected and moving evermore in that direction. You seem to think that cropr must have got half his business strategy wrong by using Dells.

    I have never ever used Windows myself as a day to day machine but general consensus seems to be that Windows 10 has got a lot right. I have no idea but if I could get a MateBook X Pro for US pricing I would seriously consider getting one instead of paying what Apple is asking.
    cropr
  • Reply 119 of 241
    SoliSoli Posts: 7,683member
    Avon b7 said:
    …if you need 32GB of RAM AND mobility, it can be done.

    […]

    There is no technical reason Apple couldn't do it
    Speaking of nonsense, who the fuck said it can't be done? Who the fuck said it's not within Apple's technical capabilities? Your fallacy is suggesting that because Apple could do it they should do it when every bit of information is that they have no intention of going with non-LP RAM, desktop-class CPUs, re-adding ODDs, making a laptop with a 21" display, or anything else Apple could do in a laptop if they wanted.
    edited June 25 tmayfastasleepStrangeDays
  • Reply 120 of 241
    KITAKITA Posts: 122member
    Soli said:
    KITA said:
    Soli said:
    KITA said:
    StrangeDays said:

    If you can't run macOS, it sucks. 
    I see you replied with more nonsense.
    What exactly do you think is nonsense about the OS being an important factor when determining which type of machine works best for your workflow?

    Apple moving to Intel changed that since you no longer had to choose one or the other, but this was very much the case back in the PPC days when Windows was needed for a great number of apps and emulation (not virtualization) software was too slow to be a good solution.

    When Apple starts incorporating ARM-based Macs into the lineup you can say that those entry-level machines aren't not good solutions for those that need Windows to run natively or virtualization* and you'll have a good argument for why their Pro machines that are still using Intel's architecture have certain benefits for those that need—or may need—multiple OSes on the same PC.


    * Assuming that Apple doesn't offer any native x86_64 virtualization or Boot Camp for Windows RT; both of which I think are unlikely.
    The OS can be important for work flow, but making a blanket statement that a device "sucks" because it can't run a particular OS when no use case has been defined, that's just nonsense.
    As a general rule, sure. I doubt that StrangeDays would say that macOS is the best solution for running, say, an enterprise server, but let's keep in mind that 1) this is an Apple-focused forum, and 2) you came in here pimping something facepalmingly called the MateBook X Pro and deemed it "undoubtedly superior" after excluding the OS from the equation as if the OS isn't an important consideration. I'd say you stepped into it.
    Being an Apple-focused forum doesn't suddenly become an excuse to be unreasonable towards everything non-Apple. Especially in an article that takes quite a bit of time discussing and comparing to a Windows device.

    In my opinion, the name of the device is rather silly, but in terms of the hardware, it has a lot more to offer than a MacBook Pro. It's a benchmark of what a thin/light laptop can be. Reviews and thorough testing have confirmed this time and time again. It's also certainly a better representation of a flagship Windows device than even the most recent XPS 13 used in the comparison.
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