A year with MacBook Pro: reviewing Apple's 2017 pro laptop models

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  • Reply 61 of 241
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 989member
    Funny how all-USB-C stopped being a problem, once the Windows vendors caught up.
    SolilkruppStrangeDaysmpschaefercommentzillaRayz2016watto_cobra
  • Reply 62 of 241
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 699member
    Rayz2016 said:
    MplsP said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    rogtuf said:
    The USB-C connector on the MBP is hopeless. It falls out as soon as there is the slighted tension on the cable. Putting USB-C on the Iphone would be a very bad idea.
    And if it didn’t do that, you’d be complaining that you tripped over the cable and pulled your laptop on to the floor. 
    ...and again asking why they didn't keep the MagSafe connector. I have a 15" 2017 MacBook Pro. It's a great machine, but I still think it was moronic to go whole-hog with USB C and ditch MagSafe and not have a single USB A. 

    Because the USB-C port is smaller, and doesn't have a notion of 'upside-down'. Since it can also be used for power and data, then it allows them to have ports that can be used for power and data on both sides of the machine, which I actually make a lot of use of because I actually travel with my laptop.

    If it's such a huge problem, you can always get one of these:

    https://griffintechnology.com/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-power-cable
    I looked at those. I saw 2 in the market and neither had great reviews. After using USB C for several months, the only positive thing I have to say is that there’s a port on both sides of the machine. It is harder to plug in (I could do the mag safe in the dark without looking if I neeed to) MagSafe was also omnidirectional. It was safer and easier to store since the power adapter had a place to wrap the cord. 

    For sure, there are more USB C peripherals available now, but it seems kind of like the ‘Get a mac’ commercial When the PC guy said ‘ask not what Vista can do for you but what you can buy for Vista!’ Suddenly, after spending $2k for a laptop, we’re expected to shell out more money for new peripherals and adapters to make it work with everything we have now. With the exception of the syncophants and apologists here, NObody I’ve talked to is happy that MagSafe is gone. That includes Apple Store employees. Also, no one I know needs 4 USB C ports. Most people barely need one. They do need a USB A port to use the peripherals that they already own, though. 
    stevenozelijahg
  • Reply 63 of 241
    aylkaylk Posts: 54member
    Whatever.
    edited June 24
  • Reply 64 of 241
    The new MacBook keyboards are too SHALLOW for extended typing. There is insufficient key travel. Apple, please fix this problem. Don’t sacrifice the MacBooks for ‘thin-ness’. 
    stevenozelijahg
  • Reply 65 of 241
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 5,857member
    MplsP said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    MplsP said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    rogtuf said:
    The USB-C connector on the MBP is hopeless. It falls out as soon as there is the slighted tension on the cable. Putting USB-C on the Iphone would be a very bad idea.
    And if it didn’t do that, you’d be complaining that you tripped over the cable and pulled your laptop on to the floor. 
    ...and again asking why they didn't keep the MagSafe connector. I have a 15" 2017 MacBook Pro. It's a great machine, but I still think it was moronic to go whole-hog with USB C and ditch MagSafe and not have a single USB A. 

    Because the USB-C port is smaller, and doesn't have a notion of 'upside-down'. Since it can also be used for power and data, then it allows them to have ports that can be used for power and data on both sides of the machine, which I actually make a lot of use of because I actually travel with my laptop.

    If it's such a huge problem, you can always get one of these:

    https://griffintechnology.com/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-power-cable
    I looked at those. I saw 2 in the market and neither had great reviews. After using USB C for several months, the only positive thing I have to say is that there’s a port on both sides of the machine. It is harder to plug in (I could do the mag safe in the dark without looking if I neeed to) MagSafe was also omnidirectional. It was safer and easier to store since the power adapter had a place to wrap the cord. 

    For sure, there are more USB C peripherals available now, but it seems kind of like the ‘Get a mac’ commercial When the PC guy said ‘ask not what Vista can do for you but what you can buy for Vista!’ Suddenly, after spending $2k for a laptop, we’re expected to shell out more money for new peripherals and adapters to make it work with everything we have now. With the exception of the syncophants and apologists here, NObody I’ve talked to is happy that MagSafe is gone. That includes Apple Store employees. Also, no one I know needs 4 USB C ports. Most people barely need one. They do need a USB A port to use the peripherals that they already own, though. 
    I doubt that’s true. I’ve read people who don’t have a problem with lack of magsafe and that in no way makes them “apologists!”. That’s just silly cognitive dissonance to make you feel good about your position and to convince yourself that nobody else has differing use cases and opinions.  
    SoliRayz2016elijahg
  • Reply 66 of 241
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,380member
    MplsP said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    MplsP said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    rogtuf said:
    The USB-C connector on the MBP is hopeless. It falls out as soon as there is the slighted tension on the cable. Putting USB-C on the Iphone would be a very bad idea.
    And if it didn’t do that, you’d be complaining that you tripped over the cable and pulled your laptop on to the floor. 
    ...and again asking why they didn't keep the MagSafe connector. I have a 15" 2017 MacBook Pro. It's a great machine, but I still think it was moronic to go whole-hog with USB C and ditch MagSafe and not have a single USB A. 

    Because the USB-C port is smaller, and doesn't have a notion of 'upside-down'. Since it can also be used for power and data, then it allows them to have ports that can be used for power and data on both sides of the machine, which I actually make a lot of use of because I actually travel with my laptop.

    If it's such a huge problem, you can always get one of these:

    https://griffintechnology.com/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-power-cable
    I looked at those. I saw 2 in the market and neither had great reviews. After using USB C for several months, the only positive thing I have to say is that there’s a port on both sides of the machine. It is harder to plug in (I could do the mag safe in the dark without looking if I neeed to) MagSafe was also omnidirectional. It was safer and easier to store since the power adapter had a place to wrap the cord. 

    For sure, there are more USB C peripherals available now, but it seems kind of like the ‘Get a mac’ commercial When the PC guy said ‘ask not what Vista can do for you but what you can buy for Vista!’ Suddenly, after spending $2k for a laptop, we’re expected to shell out more money for new peripherals and adapters to make it work with everything we have now. With the exception of the syncophants and apologists here, NObody I’ve talked to is happy that MagSafe is gone. That includes Apple Store employees. Also, no one I know needs 4 USB C ports. Most people barely need one. They do need a USB A port to use the peripherals that they already own, though. 
    I doubt that’s true. I’ve read people who don’t have a problem with lack of magsafe and that in no way makes them “apologists!”. That’s just silly cognitive dissonance to make you feel good about your position and to convince yourself that nobody else has differing use cases and opinions.  
    The loudest complaints seem to be from people that have never used a notebook with USB-C ports, the biggest group of complainers tend to focus on how there are no accessories for USB-C (which simply isn't the point), but he oddest bunch of complainers are the ones that try to argue that having 4 ports that all do the same high-power data and power transport with unlimited protocol support is a bad move. 

    It took forever to get rid of Serial and Parallel to get USB to become the norm, and then USB still feel short because it couldn't do high-speed data well, especially for video), so we eventually got mDP for TB, which was all pretty good, but USB-A allowing for TB to use the port is an amazing for the future of computing.

    Frankly, I think anyone that bitches about wanting different ports interfaces that all do one thing instead of multiple ports that support all types of data to be insane. With these people, you tell them that they can buy an inline adapter for MagSafe-like protection for USB-C connector and they get offended. They never look at the landscape of the weight, power connector post, or how long a battery would reasonably last when MagSafe 1.0 was first launched.

    Most bizarrely, are the ones that claim Apple moved to USB-C to nickel-and-dime users despite USB-C being a universal connector and offers a USB-C connector on the PSU end, too, unlike with MagSafe which was proprietary, unlicensed, and built-in to the PSU. Because the connector was only the one side I had bend and breaks in several cables which either required full $79(?) replacements or pulling out the soldering gun, electrical tape, and shrink tubing to fix. Long live USB-C.
    Rayz2016
  • Reply 67 of 241
    The sad part is other vendors have discovered a way to include a usb-A port on very slim machines, some even slimmer than the MacBook Pro and even to rave reviews. Witness the Huawei Matebook Pro x as an example. Sure it is a MBP ripoff even the name but it does things right besides the webcam. 
  • Reply 68 of 241
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,380member
    mindwaves said:
    The sad part is other vendors have discovered a way to include a usb-A port on very slim machines, some even slimmer than the MacBook Pro and even to rave reviews. Witness the Huawei Matebook Pro x as an example. Sure it is a MBP ripoff even the name but it does things right besides the webcam. 
    I also agree that it's sad that companies are still only using USB-A when USB-C is the future..
    pscooter63
  • Reply 69 of 241
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 3,595administrator
    cpsro said:
    Tsk, tsk! I must have seriously inflamed the management here... my brief critique of the soft review and expression of my own feelings about the 2017 MBP (which I own) was deleted... and not by me!
    Not that I'm aware of. There are multiple threads going on, regarding essentially the same topic.

    Edit- I see it now. Re-read the commenting guidelines, and eliminate what violates them. The comment was mostly good other than a sentence here or there that broke the rules.
    edited June 24
  • Reply 70 of 241
    bluefire1bluefire1 Posts: 828member
    I've had  the 13" MacBook Pro with TouchBar since last fall when suddenly the "N" key stopped functioning. I repeatedly tried hitting the key but no luck. I gave it a final try and suddenly the key was working again. This should never happen on a computer of this quality and at that expense.
  • Reply 71 of 241
    I have to disagree. In my opinion the only "pro" model has to be a 17" laptop. Apple made these wonderful "pro" laptops years and years ago. Very much like their current old tech computers. I bought three of them. Best laptops ever. Then Apple became a phone company. I miss the good old days, when Apple was a computer company first. Apple are not in the "pro" market any more. I hope the next Apple event is all about hardware, i.e. computer hardware. A proper "pro" desktop aka Mac Pro, RAM 64Gb to 256Gb, proper "pro" monitors, with 30, 32, 34 or 38" 4K screens, proper "pro" laptops from 17" down to toy-sized 13" "pro" laptop. 4K screens laptop screens, 32Gb RAM as a standard minimum, user upgradable RAM to 64Gb. And then Apple can start again to innovate with great software like it did 10 years ago. Before some idiot decided water-downed feature-less dumbed-down software became the norm for Apple. Apple stopped making computers customers actually wanted years ago. Sad times at the moment with Apple computer hardware.
    I don’t know why simply having a 17” screen makes it a “Pro” device; that seems like a pretty arbitrary way to define it.  I currently use a 15” Retina MacBook Pro for FCPX, Adobe CC, and I can run my apps at the same screen resolution as the 17” MBP (1920x1200). For me what makes it a Pro machine is the quad-core CPU and dedicated GPU for speeding up renders and ProRes conversions. If I wanted a larger screen, I can hook it up to an external 4K display, but retain the lighter weight and portability of the 15” screen. What am I missing about the 17” MBP? In my book, if a 15” screen is too small, 2 inches is not going to be a game changer.
  • Reply 72 of 241
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,208member
    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    avon b7 said:
    The Touchbar in itself wasn't a mistake but making it the only option (at a speculated $300 increase) on pricing definitely was.
    How much should it be for a very custom OLED display powered by Apple designed silicon running its own version of OS X built from a stripped down version of watchOS that  also contains a Secure Element and Secure Enclave for Touch ID and Apple Pay?
    Try $0.

    Make a 15" non-TouchBar version. Not everyone needs ANY of that but the Matebook X Pro also manages a 5-second cold boot to login with secure enclave.
    All that technology costs nothing. Got it. Well, at least you're showing your true colors today.
    OK. I will try a second time:

    "The Touchbar in itself wasn't a mistake but making it the only option (at a speculated $300 increase) on pricing definitely was."

    That means I don't care if it cost 1,000€. My problem with the current lineup is that if you want a 15" model you have to swallow the cost - whatever it may be.

    The problem is not how much it costs or how much it is worth. The problem is that if you don't need it, you still have to pay for it. 
    Good news!

    You aren't required to replace your old Mac Book Pro with another Mac!

    Buy yourself the Matebook X Pro!
    Soli
  • Reply 73 of 241
    Cesar Battistini MazieroCesar Battistini Maziero Posts: 141unconfirmed, member
    Best computer I have ever had.

    It's perfect in every way, I love it to bits.
  • Reply 74 of 241
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 699member
    MplsP said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    MplsP said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    rogtuf said:
    The USB-C connector on the MBP is hopeless. It falls out as soon as there is the slighted tension on the cable. Putting USB-C on the Iphone would be a very bad idea.
    And if it didn’t do that, you’d be complaining that you tripped over the cable and pulled your laptop on to the floor. 
    ...and again asking why they didn't keep the MagSafe connector. I have a 15" 2017 MacBook Pro. It's a great machine, but I still think it was moronic to go whole-hog with USB C and ditch MagSafe and not have a single USB A. 

    Because the USB-C port is smaller, and doesn't have a notion of 'upside-down'. Since it can also be used for power and data, then it allows them to have ports that can be used for power and data on both sides of the machine, which I actually make a lot of use of because I actually travel with my laptop.

    If it's such a huge problem, you can always get one of these:

    https://griffintechnology.com/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-power-cable
    I looked at those. I saw 2 in the market and neither had great reviews. After using USB C for several months, the only positive thing I have to say is that there’s a port on both sides of the machine. It is harder to plug in (I could do the mag safe in the dark without looking if I neeed to) MagSafe was also omnidirectional. It was safer and easier to store since the power adapter had a place to wrap the cord. 

    For sure, there are more USB C peripherals available now, but it seems kind of like the ‘Get a mac’ commercial When the PC guy said ‘ask not what Vista can do for you but what you can buy for Vista!’ Suddenly, after spending $2k for a laptop, we’re expected to shell out more money for new peripherals and adapters to make it work with everything we have now. With the exception of the syncophants and apologists here, NObody I’ve talked to is happy that MagSafe is gone. That includes Apple Store employees. Also, no one I know needs 4 USB C ports. Most people barely need one. They do need a USB A port to use the peripherals that they already own, though. 
    I doubt that’s true. I’ve read people who don’t have a problem with lack of magsafe and that in no way makes them “apologists!”. That’s just silly cognitive dissonance to make you feel good about your position and to convince yourself that nobody else has differing use cases and opinions.  
    Actually, it is true, and it isn’t just one Apple store employee I’ve talked to, either. Several have readily told me they wish MagSafe was still around. I still have my 2011 MacBook Air and have had to replace one power supply (about a year ago) the entire time I owned it. 

    I dont dispute that USB C is the future, snd I certainly don’t think it was a move by Apple to sell more dongles - I just dispute the argument that it was better to have 4 usb c ports in an era when USB A is still the dominant connector.

     As someone who’s used A 2017 MacBoom Pro for > 6 months, I think I have enoug experience to form a legitimate opinion. The single thing I do more than anything else is charge it. I would wager that that is true for the majority of users. For charging, I find MagSafe to be superior, pure & simple. 
     
  • Reply 75 of 241
    Unlike the reviewer in the video I actually love the Touch ID login. It’s definately way more convenient compared to typing in my password and much faster at it too.

    But here is where FaceID makes more sense in a future generation laptop, in fact so even more than the iPhone because you always look straight at the screen (I don’t like how FaceID performs on the phone because it doesn’t support landscape and also forces users to make compromises on their behavior to fit a new technology).

    And yes, the Touch bar proved to pretty useless. I was excited by it initially but very skeptical at the same time. Why would you move away from looking at the screen and disrupt your process to navigate a touch bar that’s never the same? A true example of ‘good on paper’.

    The clac-clac-clac keyboard still sucks. Hard to type for a longer time, doesn’t feel satisfying and is very noisy. I long for the old keyboard even if it’s not as aesthetically pleasing to look at.

    Connections: USB-C + an all in one dongle solves that issue. Was never a big deal to me, although I would had appreciated an SD-cardreader on a pro laptop. 

    I miss the magsafe connector. Very stupid to leave such a great connector behind just to have the same ports used. Typically modern Apple to compromise usability just for minimalist design. 
    edited June 24
  • Reply 76 of 241
    KITAKITA Posts: 145member

    Windows machines are far behind the MacBook Pro's trackpad, which has user-adjustable force-touch input and feedback. The best part is that the clicking feel is even across the whole surface of the trackpad, unlike most, if not all Windows laptops. You can right click from anywhere by simply using two fingers, so you don't need extra buttons.

    Moving on to hardware, MacBook Pro's speakers are very good for their size, much better than most Windows laptops that we tested, including Dell's XPS 13.

    We recently compared the base 13-inch MacBook Pro with the new Dell XPS 13 laptop, which for us is one the best Windows laptops available. It packs Intel's 8th-gen i7-8550U Coffee Lake processor, so CPU performance is far better than the MacBook Pro's, especially in multi-core.

    However, Apple chooses to pay more for CPU's with powerful integrated graphics like the Iris Plus Graphics 640 chip in the base 13-inch Pro. This results in a 20 percent boost to graphics benchmarking scores compared to the XPS, despite the MacBook Pro being an older laptop.

    The 13-inch Pro's display is gorgeous and we love the black bezels around it. Our favorite feature is the taller 16:10 aspect ratio, which affords more real estate when compared to the standard 16:9 ratio on most Windows laptops. That extra vertical screen space is what you want when browsing the web.
    If you're going to compare it to a Windows laptop, use a best in class device, like the MateBook X Pro, not a base model XPS 13.

  • Reply 77 of 241
    ElCapitanElCapitan Posts: 103member
    Soli said:
    It took forever to get rid of Serial and Parallel to get USB to become the norm>

    No it didn't because no Macintosh ever had them in the first place. Macs had LocalTalk (which was driven by an, at the time, expensive RS-422 chipset) and ADB ports before Steve Jobs launched the iMac with USB in 1998.

    For connecting disks and scanners, the Macs always had SCSI internally and externally till they gradually were replaced by FW-400 and 800 for external connections and phased out for internal drives when Apple switched to Intel processors.

    The first iPod had FW-400 because the then current USB-A was not up to the task for fast syncing with the Macs.

    What happened in the PC market is pretty much irrelevant for an Apple centric discussion.
    commentzilla
  • Reply 78 of 241
    Soli said:
    mindwaves said:
    The sad part is other vendors have discovered a way to include a usb-A port on very slim machines, some even slimmer than the MacBook Pro and even to rave reviews. Witness the Huawei Matebook Pro x as an example. Sure it is a MBP ripoff even the name but it does things right besides the webcam. 
    I also agree that it's sad that companies are still only using USB-A when USB-C is the future..
    I guess I don't understand why having no USB-A ports is such a big deal, it's not like it requires a dongle. I'd rather future proof my setup with USB-C/TB-3 than cling to legacy ports. A USB-C to Micro-B 3.0, USB-C to USB-B 3.0 or USC-C to USB-A run about $6 a piece. Works bi-directionally with any device that fits the connectors, so there's no need to buy new devices. At most you'll need 3 or 4 new cables for your old devices, maybe $15-$25 total depending on your setup. If you have a display port monitor like me, it's another $15 for USB-C/TB-3 to Mini-Display Port. Again, none of these are dongles, just new cable.

    I'm still on my 2013 MBP and I already have several USB-C devices attached. I even purchased a TB-3 RAID/DOCK so I could have 3 of my hard drives (two RAIDS), Blu-Ray Burner, 27" DP monitor and ethernet over a single TB-1 cable. The only downside is that I had to buy a TB-2 adapter to bridge TB-1 to TB-3. But that's not a big deal since it doesn't need to travel with me. The upside is that most of the new USB-C drives come with a legacy USC-C to USB-A cable, so in the end I only needed to buy a few new cables.

    So now I'm all set for the new Macs. I'll jack in the TB-3 cable to the RAID/DOCK and that's all I'll need at home. Then on the go I just need to remember to bring a few assorted cables but that's nothing new. Even with legacy ports PC users still have to drag as many cables along to accommodate all of those different port options, if they want to use them.

    tmayfastasleep
  • Reply 79 of 241
    mcdave said:
    Funny how all-USB-C stopped being a problem, once the Windows vendors caught up.
    We'd still be using Serial and Parallel ports if Apple had not made a bold move with the iMac.

    The USB-C/TB-3 combo will eventually take use down to two ports for everything to include monitors and TVs. Those two ports can replace everything. It will happen a lot faster than people think. HDMI and analogy audio jacks will linger for a long time but everything else will go.

    The awesome news is that we'll no longer need to buy Apple power adapters. We can now get third party adapters or get power from other devices. This will effectively make power adapters interchangeable between Macs and PCs.
  • Reply 80 of 241
    ElCapitanElCapitan Posts: 103member
    I guess I don't understand why having no USB-A ports is such a big deal.


    The wisdom of using a portable the system for a full swap of ports is beyond naive for a couple of reasons:

    • A portable - particularly used in a professional manner, is likely to encounter a significantly more diverse connection environment than a stationary system, where you might have to connect to a wide variety of screens, projectors, keyboard, pointing devices and storage solutions that exist in non Apple centric businesses and institutions. Even in a transition period Apple centric environments will for a long time be dominated by old connector types. 

    • The lack of a built in ethernet port is a security issue in itself

    • A portable system should be as light as possible, but shedding all previously established ports force the user to carry a number of dongles and even a dock in many cases, adding both weight to the overall load someone have to carry, in addition to adding clutter and inconvenience compared to a system you can plug into directly.

    • All additional connectors and docks adds to the overall cost of the system making the total unattractive to a portion of the potential customers. 
    stevenoz
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