New 'professional' Mac mini, low-cost MacBook refresh coming soon says report

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  • Reply 41 of 197
    lkrupp said:
    MDChops said:
    1. Up-to-date appropriate CPU
    2. Space for both a SSD and a backup HD, easily user replaceable/up-gradable
    3. Expandable memory by user
    4. More than 1 USB/Thunderbolt 3 port
    5. plus 1 USB 3.0 type A on front for charging/syncing/transferring without having to reach around to the back or buy a hub
    6. Compact, but not small & thin just to be small & thin,  It's a desktop computer !

    Just a user up-gradable, stylish, basic computer that runs Mac OS.  Can't a Trillion $ company sell just one model like this? 
    1. No
    2. No
    3. Maybe
    4. Maybe
    5. Hell no.
    6. Nope.


    MDChops said:
    1. Up-to-date appropriate CPU
    2. Space for both a SSD and a backup HD, easily user replaceable/up-gradable
    3. Expandable memory by user
    4. More than 1 USB/Thunderbolt 3 port
    5. plus 1 USB 3.0 type A on front for charging/syncing/transferring without having to reach around to the back or buy a hub
    6. Compact, but not small & thin just to be small & thin,  It's a desktop computer !

    Just a user up-gradable, stylish, basic computer that runs Mac OS.  Can't a Trillion $ company sell just one model like this? 
    Not gonna happen. This is the low-end offering, not the Mac Pro.
    So if I load up a mac mini on the US site I get to $1,999.00
    - only dual core
    - no raid option (matched drive bays @ 2011/12 allow a myriad of flexibility)
    - integrated graphics (vs 2011 discrete GPU)
    - 'onboard' ram (how does that serve anyone but Apple?)

    Can we call a $2k US CPU without keyboard, mouse or monitor low end ?

    2011 i7 2.7 6630M is the last mini I was willing to invest in - so flexible, so potentially fast (SSD RAID),
    with to me the only thing missing being quad core, available under $900... Was that a great deal for customers ?
    https://everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_mini/specs/mac-mini-core-i7-2.7-mid-2011-specs.html

    For some reason Apple decided to support 4K graphics in 2009, yet not the more capable 2011/2012 ?  Why ?

    Were things like X-grid developed even if it did not directly enhance the coffers ?
    To me is that was the soul of Apple design we may want to ask about...?
    edited August 2018
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  • Reply 42 of 197
    daven said:
    MDChops said:
    1. Up-to-date appropriate CPU
    2. Space for both a SSD and a backup HD, easily user replaceable/up-gradable
    3. Expandable memory by user
    4. More than 1 USB/Thunderbolt 3 port
    5. plus 1 USB 3.0 type A on front for charging/syncing/transferring without having to reach around to the back or buy a hub
    6. Compact, but not small & thin just to be small & thin,  It's a desktop computer !

    Just a user up-gradable, stylish, basic computer that runs Mac OS.  Can't a Trillion $ company sell just one model like this? 
    1. Yes
    2. Make it super simple to upgrade. Johnny may not like it but make one side a door where you can easily upgrade the memory and swap out two SSDs. SSDs standard. No spinning drives and hence no cooling for spinning drives. Do spinning drives create significant heat?
    3. See 2
    4. I just want something where I can have an external GPU.
    5. Not on my priority list
    6. Same form factor as Late 2012 mini Mac so I can just drop it in as a replacement.
    1. Moblie Processors from the MBP
    2. Standard HDD and SSD drives create plenty of heat, as does RAM. Pretty sure it will be the same drives from the MBP/iMac with 2.5GB/s read/write.
    3. On the high-end model maybe. I'm sure their will be two models.
    4. Thunderbolt
    5. Kill it!
    6. Something that can be adapted to a datacenter.
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  • Reply 43 of 197
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    That's really clever. They've got too many products competing at the low end between the iPads, Macbook Air, and Macbooks and yet people want a new Mac mini, so just remake it as a pro product.
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  • Reply 44 of 197

    bkkcanuck said:
    Eric_WVGG said:
    So is this going to be a Mac Mini Pro? And is there something that will actually make it “pro” or is it just a way for Apple to raise the price? Customers will be pissed if the only new Mac Mini is one that’s more expensive.
    I think Bloomberg is just confused. It doesn't need to be a "Pro" to be more expensive — the mere fact that it'll have modern components justifies a price bump. 

    "app developers, those running home media centers, and server farm managers" has been most of the Mini's consumers for years, that's nothing new.

    My only hope is that somewhere in the UFO is one guy whose only job is to keep updating this new Mini whenever Intel has a new CPU architecture to hawk. He can spend the rest of his time sewing Macbook Pro leather sleeves or whatever.
    Pro is just a marketing term to mean the more powerful end of the lineup.  I would like to see a 'Mac' with something like the 9900K and maybe an RX580 with RAM in a trashcan or equivalent.
    In other words the fabled low cost Pro "headless" Mac people have been wishing for since 1997. Never gonna happen. Won't see any of that stuff in a MacMini. Plan to flip $3k+ for a new Mac Pro.
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  • Reply 45 of 197
    DAalsethdaalseth Posts: 3,297member
    So is this going to be a Mac Mini Pro? And is there something that will actually make it “pro” or is it just a way for Apple to raise the price? Customers will be pissed if the only new Mac Mini is one that’s more expensive.

    Here we go again. First you complain about it being too old, too low-spec’d...now with new hardware you’ll complain that it’s too expensive. Classic.
    So releasing a new model with updated specs means they need to increase the price?
    In a word, yes. If they update it to new processors and an SSD, yes it will be more than the old price. Even if they kept the same relativer specs as before, time marches on and so does inflation.
    fastasleep
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  • Reply 46 of 197
    Why not just repurpose the Mac Pro cylinder to become the new Mac Mini? Get some actual use out of the case and thermal design by giving “low-end” users some upgradability! Without a Xeon and workstation GPU, there’s probably room for a standard 2.5” SSD (or two), as well as the 4 RAM slots.

    EDIT: There’s now a PC that steals the Mac Pro design idea, but it’s big enough for full size PCIe cards. The Mac Mini would be PERFECT for taking up the Mac Pro cylinder design!


    edited August 2018
    bkkcanucknetroxmacseekerking editor the grate
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  • Reply 47 of 197
    ascii said:
    That's really clever. They've got too many products competing at the low end between the iPads, Macbook Air, and Macbooks and yet people want a new Mac mini, so just remake it as a pro product.
    No, not remake it as a pro... The 'pro' machine is typically workstation class components (Mac Pro that is) with Xeon.   It is also quite likely that the Mac Pro will move higher up with the focus only on professionals - rather than what it was with the cheesegrater as a multi-purpose headless computer (starting with rather low-end Xeon processors).  

    The market focus of the original Mac Mini was really a starter market which was aimed at switchers.  There are not that many switchers these days and those that do tend to go with laptops.  The original Mac Mini at the time allowed some newbies to the environment to develop their first apps for the ecosystems.  The ecosystem is mature, that is not needed and the market for new people coming in and needing that switcher machine has, for the most part, disappeared as the whole ecosystem is now more mainstream (even if the Mac segment is still small).  Later the Mac Mini began to fill a different niche which is not as likely going to go for the $499 version.  As such a rethink of the entire market, the Mac Mini is set to serve -- is likely being done.  (they use to have a Mac Mini 'server' version)

    The market the Mac Mini serves is one where it is more or less headless machine where what you buy is what you get - with very limited ability to upgrade.  This is likely the very base of the new market.  It, however, will not be solely focused on the very low end.  I expect them to retire the hard drive (internal).  I expect them to use consumer CPU parts.  After that, they will likely try to straddle as much of the market as they can (taking over some on the low end that would have gone for the Mac Pro but cannot afford it's new higher-end model).

    Not a Mac Pro, more a limited upgradeable compact machine (which may have more than one size).
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  • Reply 48 of 197
    irelandireland Posts: 17,802member
    Why not just repurpose the Mac Pro cylinder to become the new Mac Mini? Get some actual use out of the case and thermal design by giving “low-end” users some upgradability! Without a Xeon and workstation GPU, there’s probably room for a standard 2.5” SSD (or two), as well as the 4 RAM slots.

    EDIT: There’s now a PC that steals the Mac Pro design idea, but it’s big enough for full size PCIe cards. The Mac Mini would be PERFECT for taking up the Mac Pro cylinder design!


    The use cases for Mac mini would say otherwise. Also, Apple apologised for trash can Mac Pro, so I don’t see your idea happening. Creative effort, though.
    edited August 2018
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  • Reply 49 of 197
    DAalseth said:
    So is this going to be a Mac Mini Pro? And is there something that will actually make it “pro” or is it just a way for Apple to raise the price? Customers will be pissed if the only new Mac Mini is one that’s more expensive.

    Here we go again. First you complain about it being too old, too low-spec’d...now with new hardware you’ll complain that it’s too expensive. Classic.
    So releasing a new model with updated specs means they need to increase the price?
    In a word, yes. If they update it to new processors and an SSD, yes it will be more than the old price. Even if they kept the same relativer specs as before, time marches on and so does inflation.
    Does new processors and an SSD make it a “pro” machine? I don’t even know what “pro” means really other than more expensive.
    tht
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  • Reply 50 of 197
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 6,006member
    So is this going to be a Mac Mini Pro? And is there something that will actually make it “pro” or is it just a way for Apple to raise the price? Customers will be pissed if the only new Mac Mini is one that’s more expensive.
    Customers are gonna be pissed no matter what Apple does with the Mac mini. In today's world, I doubt the Mac mini is doing what it was originally intended to do anyways. The original intention was during the era of getting "switchers", and Apple has plenty of avenues today to get switchers. So if Apple wanted to use the Mac mini for something else I don't really see an issue with that, or they could even just drop the Mac mini if they really wanted to. I seriously doubt its gonna make any serious dent (if any) in Mac sales. It's not exactly a big seller anyways...it never was. 
    tht
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  • Reply 51 of 197
    MDChops said:
    1. Up-to-date appropriate CPU
    2. Space for both a SSD and a backup HD, easily user replaceable/up-gradable
    3. Expandable memory by user
    4. More than 1 USB/Thunderbolt 3 port
    5. plus 1 USB 3.0 type A on front for charging/syncing/transferring without having to reach around to the back or buy a hub
    6. Compact, but not small & thin just to be small & thin,  It's a desktop computer !

    Just a user up-gradable, stylish, basic computer that runs Mac OS.  Can't a Trillion $ company sell just one model like this? 
    Not gonna happen. This is the low-end offering, not the Mac Pro.
    So if I load up a mac mini on the US site I get to $1,999.00
    - only dual core
    - no raid option (matched drive bays @ 2011/12 allow a myriad of flexibility)
    - integrated graphics (vs 2011 discrete GPU)
    - 'onboard' ram (how does that serve anyone but Apple?)

    Can we call a $2k US CPU without keyboard, mouse or monitor low end ?

    2011 i7 2.7 6630M is the last mini I was willing to invest in - so flexible, so potentially fast (SSD RAID),
    with to me the only thing missing being quad core, available under $900... Was that a great deal for customers ?
    https://everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_mini/specs/mac-mini-core-i7-2.7-mid-2011-specs.html

    For some reason Apple decided to support 4K graphics in 2009, yet not the more capable 2011/2012 ?  Why ?

    Were things like X-grid developed even if it did not directly enhance the coffers ?
    To me is that was the soul of Apple design we may want to ask about...?
    By low-end in comparison to the MacPro: below $3k MacMini and above $3K MacPro.

    The SSD configuration Apple uses get's 2.5GB/s. I doubt you could do better with third party installable parts.
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  • Reply 52 of 197

    DAalseth said:
    So is this going to be a Mac Mini Pro? And is there something that will actually make it “pro” or is it just a way for Apple to raise the price? Customers will be pissed if the only new Mac Mini is one that’s more expensive.

    Here we go again. First you complain about it being too old, too low-spec’d...now with new hardware you’ll complain that it’s too expensive. Classic.
    So releasing a new model with updated specs means they need to increase the price?
    In a word, yes. If they update it to new processors and an SSD, yes it will be more than the old price. Even if they kept the same relativer specs as before, time marches on and so does inflation.
    Does new processors and an SSD make it a “pro” machine? I don’t even know what “pro” means really other than more expensive.
    How many computers have 2.5GB/s read/write SSDs with no processor overhead? That's what the MBP and iMacPro have.
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  • Reply 53 of 197
    dewmedewme Posts: 6,099member
    I'm struggling to figure out where a "pro" Mac Mini fits into Apple's product. If it's truly a pro class machine it would have to fit somewhere between the iMac 5K and the iMac Pro and possibly lower spec'd versions of the next generation Mac Pro. I guess this niche would provide an unattached CPU for Apple's next generation monitor, i.e.. TB monitor replacement. This all makes the Mac product line seem overly crowded and somewhat confusing. 

    I'd be more excited with a NUC-like Apple Mini box that can be attached to a spare HDMI port on a 4K HDTV and used as a couch computer and for some casual gaming. Perhaps Apple could also design the new Mini to it to integrate directly with the Apple TV 4K so the pair (Mini + ATV) only consume one HDMI port on a TV/monitor and share computational and video processing capability. In other words, the new Mini extends the Apple TV and vice versa. You could for example launch Pages, Numbers, Safari, etc., directly from your Apple TV and these apps would execute on the attached/paired Mac Mini and render on the TV screen.
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  • Reply 54 of 197
    dewme said:
    I'm struggling to figure out where a "pro" Mac Mini fits into Apple's product. If it's truly a pro class machine it would have to fit somewhere between the iMac 5K and the iMac Pro and possibly lower spec'd versions of the next generation Mac Pro. I guess this niche would provide an unattached CPU for Apple's next generation monitor, i.e.. TB monitor replacement. This all makes the Mac product line seem overly crowded and somewhat confusing. 

    I'd be more excited with a NUC-like Apple Mini box that can be attached to a spare HDMI port on a 4K HDTV and used as a couch computer and for some casual gaming. Perhaps Apple could also design the new Mini to it to integrate directly with the Apple TV 4K so the pair (Mini + ATV) only consume one HDMI port on a TV/monitor and share computational and video processing capability. In other words, the new Mini extends the Apple TV and vice versa. You could for example launch Pages, Numbers, Safari, etc., directly from your Apple TV and these apps would execute on the attached/paired Mac Mini and render on the TV screen.
    Stop interpreting 'pro' as the standard Video Professional version of 'pro'.  It is purely a marketing indicator to indicate the high end of any line.  There are 'pro' uses for pretty much any device.   I use my little MacBook 12" for strictly professional uses.. and it works fine for what I need it for (a secondary machine used when not at my desk -- if there is a reported issue I need to look into).  In this case 'pro' could mean just a Mac Mini that is more than what it is now - it may just be what was lost when they cancelled the Mac Mini 2012, but I get the feeling it will be more than that but less than what the Mac Pro will be (there is a wide gap in there).
    tht
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  • Reply 55 of 197
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,487member
    eightzero said:
    I'm not sure what to make of this. I do think that whatever Apple decides to release, particularly with respect to the Mac Mini part, will be quite revealing as to their thinking with regards to desktops. Apple doesn't make cheap things, so if this category of computer is no longer viable (because people will not pay enough for a consumer computer appliance that isn't an iMac) I can see them simply abandoning it altogether.

    Tim vaguely claimed that Apple had "plans for the mac mini" some time ago, but he might have been saying "we're gonna kill it like Apple displays and airports."


    I seriously do not understand why there's any doubt. Cook clearly said they do have plans for the mini in the future:

    randominternetperson
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  • Reply 56 of 197
    dewme said:
    I'm struggling to figure out where a "pro" Mac Mini fits into Apple's product. If it's truly a pro class machine it would have to fit somewhere between the iMac 5K and the iMac Pro and possibly lower spec'd versions of the next generation Mac Pro. I guess this niche would provide an unattached CPU for Apple's next generation monitor, i.e.. TB monitor replacement. This all makes the Mac product line seem overly crowded and somewhat confusing. 

    I'd be more excited with a NUC-like Apple Mini box that can be attached to a spare HDMI port on a 4K HDTV and used as a couch computer and for some casual gaming. Perhaps Apple could also design the new Mini to it to integrate directly with the Apple TV 4K so the pair (Mini + ATV) only consume one HDMI port on a TV/monitor and share computational and video processing capability. In other words, the new Mini extends the Apple TV and vice versa. You could for example launch Pages, Numbers, Safari, etc., directly from your Apple TV and these apps would execute on the attached/paired Mac Mini and render on the TV screen.

    PRO means you can do professional level work on it. You could easily capture and cut a 4k short film or ad on any of the new MBPs. It's really a price/performance/needs question beyond that. Basically it's place below the MacPro; under $3k MacMini, over $3k MacPro. The iMac is it's own line with a built-in monitor so it wouldn't fit in-between any part of that line.

    I doubt you'll see a NUC because what you described is basically an AppleTV. The AppleTV uses the same chips as the iPhone and iPad and those chips already rival the low-end Macs in CPU and GPU power. Besides, almost no one wants to use the computer on their TV. I had that discussion 2-decades ago in grad school. TVs are typically 6 or more feet away. Not ideal for word processing, spreadsheets, etc,.
    edited August 2018
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  • Reply 57 of 197
    KITAkita Posts: 410member
    Configurations will probably be with 2-4 Thunderbolt ports, 128-4TB SSD (dual chip configuration with a single controller), 8-32GB RAM and 2-6 core options in two different models. One model with DDR3 (up to 16GB) and the second with DDR4 (up to 32GB). 99% certain it won't have a dedicated GPU or desktop processors so it will not overlap with the new MacPro.

    So basically, they are shoving a 13" MBP logic board in the low end model and a 15" MBP logic board in the high end model. Don't be surprised if it can the same form factor as the laptop logic board.

    Price range $1000 to $3000.
    This is HP's Z2 mini G4. This is the professional compact workstation of 2018 that Apple would be competing against.


    Top tier model

    Windows / Linux
    Intel Xeon E-2176G (6 core / 80 W TDP / user replaceable)
    32 GB ECC-2666 (user replaceable)
    NVIDIA Quadro P1000 4 GB GDDR5 (MXM slot / user replaceable)
    1 TB  PCIe NVMe SSD (user replaceable)
    1 TB SATA HDD (user replaceable)
    802.11ac + BT 5.0 (user replaceable)
    TPM 2.0 (EAL4+ certified)
    Vesa mount
    Security lock
    3 year global warranty (up to 5 years on-site)
    Workstation ISV certifications

    Ports

    4x USB-A
    2x USB-C
    1x Flexible IO module (Thunderbolt 3, HDMI, VGA, etc.)
    3x DisplayPort
    1x Ethernet
    1x Serial Port (optional)

    I would seriously hope a "professional" mac mini doesn't have MacBook Pro hardware with an iGPU.
    edited August 2018
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  • Reply 58 of 197
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 6,006member
    Apple doesn't necessarily need to put a high power GPU inside it when there are TB3 external solutions out there for those that need more powerful graphics. Just an idea to keep in mind. So they could keep a similar form factor (size) because of this and just focus on cooling the CPU. 
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  • Reply 59 of 197
    I have the "current" Mac Mini. Bought it used off of Craigslist for $200 less because a brand now one was no different.  I swapped out the terribly slow hard drive, that made it mostly unusable, for an SSD.  This made a big difference, allowing even reasonable performance editing in Final Cut X (1080p footage, mostly).    If a revised version includes at least 2 thunderbolt 3 ports to replace the thunderbolt 2, along with most of the other ports remaining, I would be happy.  We have 4 Macs @ home + one A1311 iMac that had the video card fail that was more $ to fix with installing a questionable used video card from eBay.  While I got several years of good use, tossing out a whole computer because of one bad component is a waste.    No more iMacs for us for our computer that is used for a workstation.   
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  • Reply 60 of 197
    macxpress said:
    Apple doesn't necessarily need to put a high power GPU inside it when there are TB3 external solutions out there for those that need more powerful graphics. Just an idea to keep in mind. So they could keep a similar form factor (size) because of this and just focus on cooling the CPU. 
    This often mentioned but the truth is that TB3 on a $750 card is turning its performance into the equivalent of a $250 - $350 card.  TB3 is a wired connection with protocol overhead which only allows access to basically 4 PCIe lanes.  The more powerful the card, the more you are penalizing the user.  On a nVidia 1080Ti that was about a 30% penalty.  So you have to connect a port up to PCIe, run it across to another box, plug it into another PCIe bus, install another power supply (which has additional costs).  This is fine for a laptop where you have no real options, but it is stupid to expect this as the base solution for any desktop.  It is more a hack for limitations built into the product.   If you are expecting a user to get an eGPU for a desktop -- then you are doing it wrong.  The decision on whether a desktop has a PCIe bus should be purely based on function and the market it is targeted at.
    razorpit
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