Apple's management doesn't want Nvidia support in macOS, and that's a bad sign for the Mac...

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  • Reply 121 of 126
    Apple are arrogant and get no love from me but didn’t this come about because 10.14 no longer uses OpenGL to drive the OS, and only uses Metal? This doesn’t effect apps, just the OS. Both companies are guilty of selfish nonsense at their customer’s expense but why would Apple approve graphics drivers that don’t drive the OS properly? Is Apple blocking Nvidia from using Metal or something?
  • Reply 122 of 126
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,876administrator
    macopp said:
    Apple are arrogant and get no love from me but didn’t this come about because 10.14 no longer uses OpenGL to drive the OS, and only uses Metal? This doesn’t effect apps, just the OS. Both companies are guilty of selfish nonsense at their customer’s expense but why would Apple approve graphics drivers that don’t drive the OS properly? Is Apple blocking Nvidia from using Metal or something?
    FTA: "'It's not like we have any real work to do on it, Nvidia has great engineers,' said one developer in a sentiment echoed by nearly all of the Apple staff we spoke with. 'It's not like Metal 2 can't be moved to Nvidia with great performance. Somebody just doesn't want it there."
    edited August 21
  • Reply 123 of 126
    macopp said:
    Apple are arrogant and get no love from me but didn’t this come about because 10.14 no longer uses OpenGL to drive the OS, and only uses Metal? This doesn’t effect apps, just the OS. Both companies are guilty of selfish nonsense at their customer’s expense but why would Apple approve graphics drivers that don’t drive the OS properly? Is Apple blocking Nvidia from using Metal or something?
    FTA: "'It's not like we have any real work to do on it, Nvidia has great engineers,' said one developer in a sentiment echoed by nearly all of the Apple staff we spoke with. 'It's not like Metal 2 can't be moved to Nvidia with great performance. Somebody just doesn't want it there."
    Yes, but who doesn’t want Metal on Nvidia cards? If you parse that quote, both companies could be guilty. We can always trust Apple to be arrogant but over the years, Nvidia have been guilty of ‘too cute by half’ statements, as well as underhanded tactics (in gaming).
    edited August 21
  • Reply 124 of 126
    Five reasons why apple will fail with new MacPro and by still not supporting Nvidia: 1. Non market insight Its ridiculous from apple towards the CGI and movieproduction industry to not support defacto creative industry standard nvidia within future OS releases. They can, they did in the past, but they do not now. Did they listen to the market demands? Not listen, not acting, knowing better: is ignorant. Or arrogant? Its definitely not pioneering spirit. 2. Missing customer understanding In CGI LowPriceGPUPower and high efficiency is demanded. Apples answer is a (prognostic) 6k upto 50 K device. Another evidence, that they are loosing completely ground to PC/Win, disconnect loyal apple users and forcing them to change/switch to Windows. Nearly all relevant Creatives-Software-Suites is aviable for Windows. And the Microsoft-team did a great job the last few years (thanks to Kurzweil etc). They evolved and learned to "think different". Apple missed to innovate in Creative Tools hardware – and slowly got disconnected to the creative avantgarde (which made this brand adorable). 3, Price / Performance Ratio Two decades ago apple macpro was not cheap, but in reach/affordable to creatives (Students) and startups. Thats over. Now a prognostic 50K Macpro or even a (low performing) 6K MacPro is just a slap into the face of long time hoping apple users (and those "newcomers" who now will never get in touch or even get one). A clash of realities. Its nuts, upside down: Meanwhile CGI gets continuously more affordable to many creatives … thanks to Rendering technology as Otoy's octane, Blender, Cinema 4d , youtube as powerfull channel – all powerfull tools/media with hughe enabling creativity power even affordable. So whats wrong: one is getting affordable (software and GPU) and the apple hardware gets more and more out of reach? Wake Up! Last Call! 4. Do what you can do well ... or leave the stage: Last chance for cupppertino, to catch up with reality. Addressed to Apple: If you now build a Mac Pro for Pros, then act like a Pro! Support both: AMD AND NVIDIA. Change the entry prices for Mac Pro significantly. Enable and liberate arts! Otherwise stay selling smartphones apps and content to the consumer masses, there you re better in it. In times of Immersive realtime CGI, Digitalzation and VR/AR this is no longer a game you will play. You will not be first choice of future creatives generations (and then will loose after the base ... whom?). 5. Finally: Liberating arts, about a pioneering spirit and THINK DIFFERENT: Once you made tools for "the crazy ones". Because there is a difference between "consumers" and "creatives". The first one simply use whats given and pay for it. Those need status symbols. The second one creates the world – and will change. Those need tools to build the future. Because they: Think different. Its a state of mind. Not a Billion $ business. Just mindset. Avantgarde. Its not Samsung against Apple. Apple against Nvidia. AMD against whatever ... Its about boring market shares against future and progress. If something missing today: then its inspiration. Go greate the next Lucas, instead of the next Bezos. Thats were "the crazy ones" have been before. About the author: I am still running several Mac Pro 5,1 built 2012 with OSX fully packed with 3 Nvidia GPUs each. Offcourse not a perfect solution, but the very best aviable, combining both worlds: Intuitive UX and the best Graphic Power for the mac (not officially supported by Apple). It will last, until either Windows gets a tiny little better or Apple turns its path completely. Guess whats happening first?
  • Reply 125 of 126
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,296member
    Mike Wuerthele said:
    FTA: "'It's not like we have any real work to do on it, Nvidia has great engineers,' said one developer in a sentiment echoed by nearly all of the Apple staff we spoke with. 'It's not like Metal 2 can't be moved to Nvidia with great performance. Somebody just doesn't want it there."
    I guess my thing about that, is who (in the broader world, especially of higher end 3D apps and utilities) cares about Metal?
    That said, some recent show of support by some companies for it gives me a bit of hope.
  • Reply 126 of 126
    Five reasons why apple will fail with new MacPro and by still not supporting Nvidia: 1. Non market insight Its ridiculous from apple towards the CGI and movieproduction industry to not support defacto creative industry standard nvidia within future OS releases. They can, they did in the past, but they do not now. Did t
    The Mac Pro is only for super high-end video/audio people with a narrow use-case. 3D work has migrated to Windows/linux ages ago. After Effects has been replaced by other tools and is unstable on the Mac anyway. VR/AR work has moved to Windows due to lack of hardware support on the Mac. ML research has moved to Windows and serverside tools due to much better tooling support (multi-GPU) and of-course support for CUDA. So for most pro people the iMac Pro would have been great if not for the price-tag, subpar GPU and thermal throttling. 
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