iPhone replacement cycles slowing down to four years, pose threat to services, analyst say...

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  • Reply 101 of 166
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,397member
    jaiello said:
    Could it be that the cellular companies no longer offer a discounted price for the phone?  In the old days I could get a new iPhone every two years for $200.  Now I have to pay full price.  Makes me keep my iPhone longer.  They had to see that coming?   
    EXACTLY.   The iPhone did not actually sell well when first released.   It took the subsidized phone deals in the U.S. to make it the unbelievable success that it was.   Personally, I'm still using my iPhone 6 (with a new $29 battery), which will be 4 years old in a few weeks.   If I could have picked up a new phone for $300 (which is what I paid for the 6 with higher than base memory), I would have bought it.  As it is, as long as the 6 continues to operate well, I'll wait until the Fall when the new models come out and either buy one of the current models (presumably at a discount) if there's only incremental changes or buy the new model if it seems worth it.

    Even if phones were still subsidized, all product lines mature and sales slow and in addition, there's far more pretty good competition.   

    And maybe Apple should stop removing features that alienate long term users like removing the headphone jack.  And I still would prefer Touch ID to Face ID.  Touch ID works fine when I'm driving because I don't have to look at the phone.   Face ID would take my eyes from the road.    

    Apple also needs to understand just who the buyers are who purchase $800 to $1000 phones.  I would argue that they're not the people who care about stupid cartoon GIFs to add to text messages and maybe they should stop pushing that in their marketing.   We're not junior high school girls.    Apple needs to add features and functions that matter, especially those that would matter to working people.   And they need to make Siri more than a sad joke.   The fact that I can ask Siri to find a pizza place and it finds me pizza places 2000 miles away demonstrates that either Apple doesn't give a crap or that the Siri team is woefully incompetent.   I also find that Apple Pay is woefully inconsistent and the transactions almost always take longer than simply swiping a credit card.   And I don't know whether it's Apple's fault or my bank's fault, but Apple Pay has stopped working at my bank's ATM machines.   
  • Reply 102 of 166
    tokyojimu said:
    FlyDog said:
    The replacement for a 6 is not an XS, it's an XR, which is around the same price as the 6 when it was released.
    Except that a XR is way too big and heavy compared to my 6. I wanted to get one. I really did. But the bulk and mass were just way too much, not to mention having to enter DongleTown if I want to use my headphones. So I've got my 6 for yet another year and Apple lost out on a sale.
    Coming from a 5s, I thought all those same things about the XR. I bought one anyway, and after a couple months there is no way I could go back to a tiny phone. The XR still fits in my pocket, the increased weight isn’t really that bad, and the bigger screen is awesome. I sent a text on my wife’s 6s the other day and my thumbs were hitting all the wrong letters. The headphone jack really isn’t an issue. Sure, I had to buy the dongle, but it was $9.00, and it’s tiny.  2 inches long, if that. I understand people want a compact phone, but for me, the positives of the XR outweighs the negatives, in a big way.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 103 of 166
    bitmodbitmod Posts: 230member
    clarker99 said:
    bitmod said:
    wood1208 said:
    4 years replacement cycle sounds unreasonable. People go at most 2 1/2 to 3 years most.

    Had an X - hated the .42 cent speaker they put in it so I went back to the far superior sounding iPhone 6. I miss the screen, camera and responsiveness of the X - but my 6 has higher quality audio and is fast enough for average use. Replaced the battery and now I’ll wait for Apple to get their heads out of their ass and release another quality phone at a reasonable price. I paid $200 for my 6. Paid $1800 for the X. I can’t stress enough how not worth the money the X is. Maybe at $600... but $1800... lol, never again.
    Lol... this is BS. The X audio speaker’s (plural) crush the 6. And your pricing conparison makes zero sense. 
    Nah, take a look at the breakdown. The 6 used an actual quality speaker design- the x used a device that outputs sound based on algorithmic interpretations - like a glorified greeting card speaker. 
    This is why the 8, X, and 7+ needed algorithm software changes to cut the loudness. The ‘speaker-like’ device isn’t capable of reproducing sound without distortion at higher volumes- so Apple killed the volume threshold and had to reprogram the amplification algorithms to compensate. Still sounds like crap at louder volumes. 
    Try it for yourself- turn your phone all the way up and call a woman - you will hear cracklings and sibilance on higher pitches. Because the ‘speaker’ can’t resolve it.
  • Reply 104 of 166
    I use my phone as an audio speaker all the time... cranked right up. There is no distortion or problems and def no comparisons to a an iPhone 6. Maybe you had a dud X. People ask if I am using a bluetooth speaker when I play music because it is so loud! I used the X and switched to the Max in September. The Max is even better sounding.

    Anyone else out there vouching the iPhone 6 sounds better?
    cornchipGeorgeBMacfastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 105 of 166
    bitmodbitmod Posts: 230member
    Don’t get me wrong, the X is a great piece of technology- but shame they scrimped on the absolute cheapest possible solution for a speaker and tried to mask it with software. But it worked for most I guess - just like people who think auto-tuned singers can sing. I can imagine right now Apple has hundreds of children in Bangladesh rummaging through landfills looking for 1980 Sanyo answering machines to recycle the speakers for the iPhone 12 - because it would be a giant leap forward in audio quality... that’s how miserable the situation is with the current offerings. Seriously, I’m not buying another iPhone for 2k that has greeting card quality sound.
    beowulfschmidt
  • Reply 106 of 166
    dougddougd Posts: 224member
    It's a lot cheaper to replace the battery than buy one of the new greed iphones
    kitatit
  • Reply 107 of 166
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,945member
    I find it a bit amazing it was ever less than 4 years to begin with.

    jaiello said:
    Could it be that the cellular companies no longer offer a discounted price for the phone?  In the old days I could get a new iPhone every two years for $200.  Now I have to pay full price.  Makes me keep my iPhone longer.  They had to see that coming?   
    You never paid $200, you paid full price spread out over 24 months rolled into your plan. You can do the exact same thing now — I put down about 1/3 of my iPhone X and am paying the rest off interest free over 24 months on T-Mobile. It's the exact same thing.
    True, but they are making so much more money off all of us, that it's kind of irrelevant. Now they aren't subsidizing the phone AND they still charge massive bills. At least by buying it outright, you can shop for the lowest price plan, somewhat freely.
  • Reply 108 of 166
    Another thing about the days of the so-called subsidy: when the carriers were doing it the monthly amount you were being charged for the phone didn’t end when the phone was paid off. That’s one reason people upgraded every 2 years. Now once the phone is paid off the monthly charges go away and your bill goes down. So if the phone still works well for you you’re more likely to keep it then upgrade. Especially with smartphones being mature products and changes mostly incremental.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 109 of 166
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,309member

    avon b7 said:
    clarker99 said:
    One thing I see is that people do not realize how much value a used iPhone has in grey market. Getting $200-$250 for a 6s is really good value for a 3 1/2 yr old device. Why dont more people leverage this?  

    For whatever reasons, it seems iPhone customers want to use the phone until it has zero value and then complain about the price of a new one. Trade-in/selling on Craiglist 1-2 yrs earlier (and considering time-value of money/inflation) you provide yourself better value. Especially, if your carrier or Apple provide zero cost financing. 
    People complain because prices have gone up. That's reasonable. Zero cost financing still means paying that increased price so the complaint remains valid.

    As a result, some people will hold onto their phones longer. Others will opt to stay on older second hand phones. Both actions impact the sales of the newer, higher priced models.

    Selling your phone to leverage the purchase of a new phone actually happens but clearly not enough to move the needle by any significant amount on sales of the new models.

    It is reasonable to think Apple's current pricing (the price end users actually pay) is simply hitting users' price ceilings and as a result, they aren't biting.

    Couple that with no compelling reason to upgrade and intense competition and you can see and understand (at least to a large degree) why things are like they are.
    LOL, I love how in your bizarro world the “intense competition” doesn’t also have increasing flagship prices and the same lack of compelling reason to upgrade problem. Nope, the maturing product category only affects Apple! And we will ignore the multiple tiers of iPhone and pretend there is only the top-tier price! (My friend just bought a brand new 7 since that tier met his budget.) And we won’t even get into how Apple sucks up the majority of the profits in this...intense completion.
    1. Android Flagship prices have increased. In fact some were priced (and still are!) far higher than iPhone long before Apple hit the $1,000 mark.

    2. Lacking compelling features? No. There are Android phones that do NOT lack compelling features to entice upgraders. Yes, and that is in a mature market. Features that will arrive on iPhones a full year (or two!) late.

    3. That mature market means manufacturers make a bigger effort to stand out. More flagships, more features. As those features roll out, 'yesterday's' features cascade down to the mid tiers very quickly, putting more pressure on Apple in the process as Apple only offers old hardware in those tiers.

    4. One manufacturer has achieved MASSIVE growth and with virtually NO access to the second or third largest developed (and mature!) market on the planet, so please don't ramble on about that too much. Mature or not, 80% of that market is up for grabs to Apple.

    5. Can't compete in mature markets? So stake a claim in developing markets! That is what the big Android players are doing with great success.

    LOL, indeed!
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 110 of 166
    YP101 said:
    YP101 said:
    This is simple fix for Apple. Next iOS 13 update, drop all hardware below A11 cpu. Also remove all code for older CPU support.
    Force developer to update their apps.
    Update all AppleTV, iPad, iPhone minimum A11 and above. Rest of previous model, flash sale before lunch.

    Apple would never do that. I think it’s highly likely they will drop all devices prior to the A9 6S. The A9 was a huge jump from the A8 and also doubled the RAM to 2GB. A9 also introduced NVMe storage. This makes the A9 far more capable of running the latest version of iOS compared to the A7/A8. The A9 seems like the perfect “cut-off” point for iOS 13
    You never know. All Android phone never support by manufacturer this long for OS. Typically 2 years are max for high end model.
    If Apple keep able to sell record breaking iPhone year after year but with recent price hike and saturate market no longer guarantee that.
    So Apple needs drastic meager on next release. Anyway next iPhone will have A13. A10-A13 is 4 years support.  A11-13 as 3 year support should be much easier.

    Doing this would piss off a lot of people. If you want people to keep buying your stuff you don’t piss them off;
  • Reply 111 of 166
    jaiello said:
    Could it be that the cellular companies no longer offer a discounted price for the phone?  In the old days I could get a new iPhone every two years for $200.  Now I have to pay full price.  Makes me keep my iPhone longer.  They had to see that coming?   
    You never paid $200, you paid full price spread out over 24 months rolled into your plan. You can do the exact same thing now — I put down about 1/3 of my iPhone X and am paying the rest off interest free over 24 months on T-Mobile. It's the exact same thing.
    It  IS the same thing.   You are totally correct.   But, it doesn't look that way -- because the carriers hide it. 
    First, they do not list the cost of the phone and instead bury it in the cost of cell plan.  And, if you ask if its there, they deny it.
    Second, when you get a new phone and pay for it yourself, the cost of your plan (if you roll it over) does not go down.

    So, most people believe that they got a new phone every second year for $200 -- because that's what the carriers wanted them to believe.
    If I go to AT&T or Verizon’s website they show the monthly cost of the phone (and the full MSRP in small print). How is that buried in the cost of the plan? I’m on the iPhone upgrade program so I don’t get my phone through the carriers. Is the monthly installment amount a separate line item on the phone bill or is it just lumped in with the rest of your bill?

    During the days of the so-called subsidy Apple would always show the $199/$299/$399 price on stage during keynotes. Then around iPhone 7 or so they switched to showing the full price (instead of a monthly installment price). So people went from seeing $199 or $299 to $649 or now $749 and $999. I think it was a marketing mistake on Apple’s part considering the keynote really is geared towards the US and most people in the US aren’t buying their phone outright but paying if off in monthly installments.
    They obviously are not offering the old style plan where you "Got a new phone for free every two years".  But, if you continue to grandfather / roll over the plan you got with your iPhone 5, you are STILL paying for that phone -- even though there isn't and never was a sign of it on the bill.
    It was never free. Heck I think what I pay upfront now is less than $199. And that’s including the stupid activation fee the carriers make you pay.
  • Reply 112 of 166
    Bitmod, you are blatantly wrong about speaker quality on the X vs 6!  The X speakers have superior sound, higher volume, and are stereo!  I can’t imagine how you could think otherwise...this is simply FACT, confirmed by Apple and every other user out there.
    radarthekatfastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 113 of 166
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 1,000member
    If they wanted to bloster services revenue they could always tie upgrades pass a point to a fee, and say include it it the package for customers with a subscription service. iCloud paid tiers, Music or ... what every the next one is.

    Better still they could have 2 tiers of OS a core OS that focuses on speed, security and compatablity. Then have the feature release for specific devices. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 114 of 166
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 1,000member
    YP101 said:
    This is simple fix for Apple. Next iOS 13 update, drop all hardware below A11 cpu. Also remove all code for older CPU support.
    Force developer to update their apps.
    Update all AppleTV, iPad, iPhone minimum A11 and above. Rest of previous model, flash sale before lunch.
    They could use a Carrot instead say offer 25% app store rate for apps that upate to the new OS within a couple of months of release. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 115 of 166
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,190member
    YP101 said:
    And most of people will buy newer iPhone this year if iOS 13 drop support their 6S, 7. 

    Why would iOS 13 drop support for iPhone 6s & 7? iOS 12 still runs fine on 5s. 13 might drop support for 5s & 6, but I’d be somewhat shocked if they dropped 6s’ & 7’s.



    Isn't it good for the environment to keep an iPhone as long as possible?  Apple should be tooting that horn.  Or, not when it deals with their huge profit margins?


    … ya didn’t watch the keynote, did ya? 

    edited February 9 watto_cobra
  • Reply 116 of 166
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,309member

    avon b7 said:
    clarker99 said:
    avon b7 said:
    clarker99 said:
    One thing I see is that people do not realize how much value a used iPhone has in grey market. Getting $200-$250 for a 6s is really good value for a 3 1/2 yr old device. Why dont more people leverage this?  

    For whatever reasons, it seems iPhone customers want to use the phone until it has zero value and then complain about the price of a new one. Trade-in/selling on Craiglist 1-2 yrs earlier (and considering time-value of money/inflation) you provide yourself better value. Especially, if your carrier or Apple provide zero cost financing. 
    People complain because prices have gone up. That's reasonable. Zero cost financing still means paying that increased price so the complaint remains valid.

    As a result, some people will hold onto their phones longer. Others will opt to stay on older second hand phones. Both actions impact the sales of the newer, higher priced models.

    Selling your phone to leverage the purchase of a new phone actually happens but clearly not enough to move the needle by any significant amount on sales of the new models.

    It is reasonable to think Apple's current pricing (the price end users actually pay) is simply hitting users' price ceilings and as a result, they aren't biting.

    Couple that with no compelling reason to upgrade and intense competition and you can see and understand (at least to a large degree) why things are like they are.


    I am not even sure why I am answering you but Going from a 5s/SE6/6s to a current gen iPhone is a significant jump in tech. Using your existing device to leverage a better price every 2-3 yrs is just smart.  Or run your device till it dies and pay the going price in 2020 or 2021. Your not saving anything bc a dollar today is not worth a dollar tommorrow and your old phone is worth nothing. Unless you think Apple will cut the price of iPhones down $200-$300... and good chance that is not happening.
    A significant jump in tech but not compelling and if the price is too high, everything is moot.

    Don't take my word for it. Look at the iPhone market and how it flattened for three years and just contracted - right on its historic blowout quarter.

    You can wish people to do what you say - and some do do that - but it isn't turning things around.

    It not what I think. I believe the market is speaking for itself. Now it is up to Apple to take action if it feels it is necessary to do so.
    Has anyone ever explained the difference of correlation and causation to you? You’re attempting to claim the reason for flattening sales is what you want it to be, when that is not a given nor proven. Everyone has said for years that the iPhone growth could obviously never be sustained indefinitely, as there is only one shift from feature phone to smartphone. It happened. Most of the world that needs a smartphone, has one. That level of growth would never be sustained. And it didn’t need to... If Apple can put out a product that people want to buy, and do so profitably, that’s what matters. So far there is no indication that this isn’t happening. Profitability remains good. Profit is the air corporations breathe. 

    The sun will also burn out one day. Not because of price either. 
    So, in a world where services is becoming a major area of revenue growth for Apple and a way to reduce its iPhone dependency, you believe Apple shouldn't be worried about flat or slowing sales of its star product even though 80% of that 'mature' market is still there for the taking! A tacit admission that iOS is not truly growing beyond hand-me-downs and second hand sales. That is older phones and iPads.

    In that world of flat or decreasing sales should Apple add more services (video distribution is the next) to its platform as an exclusive feature to Apple users or open it up to the other 80%? 

    I for one never claimed Apple would be able to sustain its growth rate. Totally the opposite. That isn't the issue (although everything I have said on the subject has played out). The issue is growth though - but normal growth. Something that dried up three years ago and just contracted. That is not something I would be brushing off so lightly. 

    At least you have stopped dumping the term 'knockoff' into every post you make when it comes to the subject of competition. I suppose that is something to be grateful for although I suppose even you were able to see how poor it looked with iPhone not able to keep the pace from the second half of 2017 onwards and likely to fall even further behind in the coming weeks.

    The S10 is supposed to mark the comeback of Samsung this year after not really pushing the envelope during 2018. One can only hope that the 2019 iPhone refresh will do the same for Apple although September is a long way off.




  • Reply 117 of 166
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,945member
    Another thing about the days of the so-called subsidy: when the carriers were doing it the monthly amount you were being charged for the phone didn’t end when the phone was paid off. That’s one reason people upgraded every 2 years. Now once the phone is paid off the monthly charges go away and your bill goes down. So if the phone still works well for you you’re more likely to keep it then upgrade. Especially with smartphones being mature products and changes mostly incremental.
    Except it probably goes down to what it used to cost back when the phone was included. Kind of like Internet access now costing more than the whole thing used to cost before 'cord cutting'.

    avon b7 said:
    2. Lacking compelling features? No. There are Android phones that do NOT lack compelling features to entice upgraders. Yes, and that is in a mature market. Features that will arrive on iPhones a full year (or two!) late.
    This comment has me scratching my head. While I don't follow phones all that closely, I can't think of a feature I've heard anyone talking about that should make an iPhone user envious. You're not talking about something silly like foldable phones, are you? :)

    avon b7 said:
    4. One manufacturer has achieved MASSIVE growth and with virtually NO access to the second or third largest developed (and mature!) market on the planet, so please don't ramble on about that too much. Mature or not, 80% of that market is up for grabs to Apple.
    Growth in unit numbers, or growth in actual profit? I don't think Apple is that interested, no matter the %, if there isn't a profit to be made. That said, I do think they could do more of both if they didn't increase the price quite so high to try and appease the silly stock market.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 118 of 166
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,945member
    cornchip said:
    Why would iOS 13 drop support for iPhone 6s & 7? iOS 12 still runs fine on 5s. 13 might drop support for 5s & 6, but I’d be somewhat shocked if they dropped 6s’ & 7’s.
    Agreed. Given that they still sell iPhone 7, blocking the 6s would be artificial.

    avon b7 said:
    In that world of flat or decreasing sales should Apple add more services (video distribution is the next) to its platform as an exclusive feature to Apple users or open it up to the other 80%? 
    The problem I see for Apple in this, is that you can't just add services at some fee, and turn the crank. To get more money out of those services, they will have to be as good or better than competing services in the value they offer, such that people want to pay for them. I guess people are paying for Apple Music, but for the most part, I don't find Apple services compelling compared to alternatives. If I weren't on the platform already with them included, I'd probably not pay extra for them.
  • Reply 119 of 166
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,309member
    cgWerks said:
    Another thing about the days of the so-called subsidy: when the carriers were doing it the monthly amount you were being charged for the phone didn’t end when the phone was paid off. That’s one reason people upgraded every 2 years. Now once the phone is paid off the monthly charges go away and your bill goes down. So if the phone still works well for you you’re more likely to keep it then upgrade. Especially with smartphones being mature products and changes mostly incremental.
    Except it probably goes down to what it used to cost back when the phone was included. Kind of like Internet access now costing more than the whole thing used to cost before 'cord cutting'.

    avon b7 said:
    2. Lacking compelling features? No. There are Android phones that do NOT lack compelling features to entice upgraders. Yes, and that is in a mature market. Features that will arrive on iPhones a full year (or two!) late.
    This comment has me scratching my head. While I don't follow phones all that closely, I can't think of a feature I've heard anyone talking about that should make an iPhone user envious. You're not talking about something silly like foldable phones, are you? :)

    avon b7 said:
    4. One manufacturer has achieved MASSIVE growth and with virtually NO access to the second or third largest developed (and mature!) market on the planet, so please don't ramble on about that too much. Mature or not, 80% of that market is up for grabs to Apple.
    Growth in unit numbers, or growth in actual profit? I don't think Apple is that interested, no matter the %, if there isn't a profit to be made. That said, I do think they could do more of both if they didn't increase the price quite so high to try and appease the silly stock market.
    The compelling feature of 2018 on the camera side was the tri-camera and night mode with AIIS, allowing you to take handheld low light ultra high ISO shots at up to 8 seconds with outstanding results. The same technology also improved non-night mode photography. That was at the start of the year and also included x3 optical zoom allowing you to get great quality shots and x5 hybrid zoom with virtually no loss in detail. Later in the year ultra wide angle and super macro became available.

    On the battery side Apple has never had anything compelling and is hampered by including a 5W charger in the box. Technologies like Supercharge and Supercharge 2 blast past the iPhone. At the end of last year we saw 40W chargers that charge so fast that you can watch the decimals move in real-time.

    15W wireless charging. Reverse wireless charging. Live 3D object modelling. In screen fingerprint readers. Offline translations. Modems that are so fast that even Apple's latest 2019 are still behind, fastest wi-fi, dual frequency GPS etc - all on the same phone makes for a compelling device and cheaper than Apple's best offering.

    Some of these features are rumoured for 2019 iPhones. Some for the 2020 iPhones.

    All of the features I just mentioned were for 2018 phones. MWC in two weeks will see yet more advances and have them ship in a matter of weeks. That will extend the gap between those manufacturers and Apple still further. We can expect quad camera setups, possible liquid lens tech and more in the way of rear facing 3D systems. Of course higher storage capacities than on iPhones are a given.

    Growth in unit numbers for some Android makers. Idem revenues and profits. Not everyone, as the market is consolidating but some are bucking the industry trend of contraction and even investing more in R&D than Apple.

    Having the most profit is largely irrelevant for consumers unless it is put to profitable use. Apple had a cash hoard but did little with it. Others have made less profit but achieved more all the same. That is one of the reasons why competitors have been able to leapfrog Apple on iPhone.

    Not everyone can have the 'most profits and Apple is ahead, thanks in part to increasing prices. It could be argued that charging more has brought in profits but at the cost of stalling or contracting sales. I think most people now believe that there is no more room for that particular strategy so I expect prices won't increase this year.

    Depending on competition and actual sales going forward, we might even see a drop in iPhone prices.


  • Reply 120 of 166
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,309member
    cgWerks said:
    cornchip said:
    Why would iOS 13 drop support for iPhone 6s & 7? iOS 12 still runs fine on 5s. 13 might drop support for 5s & 6, but I’d be somewhat shocked if they dropped 6s’ & 7’s.
    Agreed. Given that they still sell iPhone 7, blocking the 6s would be artificial.

    avon b7 said:
    In that world of flat or decreasing sales should Apple add more services (video distribution is the next) to its platform as an exclusive feature to Apple users or open it up to the other 80%? 
    The problem I see for Apple in this, is that you can't just add services at some fee, and turn the crank. To get more money out of those services, they will have to be as good or better than competing services in the value they offer, such that people want to pay for them. I guess people are paying for Apple Music, but for the most part, I don't find Apple services compelling compared to alternatives. If I weren't on the platform already with them included, I'd probably not pay extra for them.
    I'm not really into services myself but there is clearly money to be made. The problem I see is that video services limited to Apple platforms would mean not pushing the product to 80% of the market, but opening up that revenue stream to Android users wouldn't be doing the Apple hardware platforms any favours. Add to that that the streaming market is already crowded and consolidation normally follows when too many big fish are present in the same pool and we have yet to see if any of Apple's content has viewer appeal.

    I agree they should give it a shot but I wouldn't go out on a limb and say it was going to be a major revenue earner in the short term although when the service actually goes live, we'll be able to judge the quality of the productions and see if they have any potential big earners on their books.

    I also think gaming should finally get some love from Apple as well as the Mac of course which is not competitive IMO. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
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