dabigkahuna said: It always seems strange to me that you insist upon maintaining your order, yet tell everyone else they shouldn't order.
It's a strange thing I've noticed - that those who complain about WT in the most extreme ways will tell people what they "should" do.
I guess the whole world is very strange to you when it does not conform to your narrow point of view. La pensée unique.
Of course you are playing a character here. In reality you are just a paid mouth piece for a company that takes money from people and provides them nothing in return. If they do not pay you to perform as you do, working so hard to twist every word or turn of a phrase into a rationalization for all of their misdeeds and lies, then that is very strange indeed.
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. Who has the money?
Last point, because I know I will be accused by the paranoid and pathological Waytools 'support' person and his alter egos Kahuna and Colin: I have never spoken ill of your alleged product or said anything to suggest that the product itself would not be great and worthy of purchase. Its a nice product if its real. If you had given me the keyboards I paid for years ago, by now I'm sure I would have worn them down to nothing and bought more. You are a crazy person the way you try to cast yourself as having the upper hand in the ethics of this debate: your logic is - I am righteous because I want to make the best most perfect product for my customers, and therefore I will never give my customers the product they paid for. You are insane! I don't speak against your products or your efforts to innovate or make good products. I only speak ill of your insanity and total lack of ethics and your lies and gaslighting and your extremely poor judgement and your inability to deal ethically and professionally with people and customers.
Three days ago you said, 'Last point'. But you are still posting ad nauseam, so hypocritical of you to talk about being dishonest. No, I do not work for Waytools. I offered you 4 cents of interest (bank account interest of .01% a year for 4 years for your $99 purchase) that you had requested with your refund a few days ago. The offer still stands but I won't spend 50 cents to mail you a check. As I said, you aren't worth it and you have proven as such with your continued posting. What a nuisance you are! But you have helped me fully understand why companies post signs stating: "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."
dabigkahuna said: It always seems strange to me that you insist upon maintaining your order, yet tell everyone else they shouldn't order.
It's a strange thing I've noticed - that those who complain about WT in the most extreme ways will tell people what they "should" do.
I guess the whole world is very strange to you when it does not conform to your narrow point of view. La pensée unique.
Of course you are playing a character here. In reality you are just a paid mouth piece for a company that takes money from people and provides them nothing in return. If they do not pay you to perform as you do, working so hard to twist every word or turn of a phrase into a rationalization for all of their misdeeds and lies, then that is very strange indeed.
First, I'm not paid by WT, so I'm pretty sure that establishes who is making stuff up - which some may call a lie.
But the first sentence is amazing. I just got through pointing out that I and others in Treg don't go around telling people what they "should" do. And I pointed out that you do. So, your comeback is to say I want people to conform to my point of view??? Talk about you missing the point!
BTW, you said WT should have apologized. I showed that they had. Yet you are still complaining.
Tell you what, I'll give you the next 24 hours to spout whatever you want and I'll ignore it.
Meanwhile, I remind you of this statement:
I offer this - if you had said at any point in the first 3+ years, 'Ok folks, it took us longer, and it cost us more. We failed in that respect. To get it across the finish line we need to raise the price.' If you had simply been transparent about how you were failing, and named the price, and then shipped the product, I would likely have gone along with it.
And the fact that I showed you that they did apologize. Gave you the exact quote. And the article in AI talks about them raising the price. Yet after that is done you act like it doesn't matter anyway. No reason to believe you.
I offer this - if you had said at any point in the first 3+ years, 'Ok folks, it took us longer, and it cost us more. We failed in that respect. To get it across the finish line we need to raise the price.' If you had simply been transparent about how you were failing, and named the price, and then shipped the product, I would likely have gone along with it.
And the fact that I showed you that they did apologize. Gave you the exact quote. And the article in AI talks about them raising the price. Yet after that is done you act like it doesn't matter anyway. No reason to believe you.
Presumably because it did not suit your narrative, you ignored the key second portion of the paragraph which says, 'If you had simply been transparent about how you were failing, and named the price, and then shipped the product, I would likely have gone along with it.'
Three days ago you said, 'Last point'. But you are still posting ad nauseam, so hypocritical of you to talk about being dishonest. No, I do not work for Waytools. I offered you 4 cents of interest (bank account interest of .01% a year for 4 years for your $99 purchase) that you had requested with your refund a few days ago. The offer still stands but I won't spend 50 cents to mail you a check. As I said, you aren't worth it and you have proven as such with your continued posting. What a nuisance you are! But you have helped me fully understand why companies post signs stating: "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."
You do not work for Waytools but are offering me interest on a refund? Right. Do you know where you can put your 4 cents? Think on that a while.
I am aware of how much Waytools despises the 'nuisance' of uncensored criticism of their stupid lies. Do you know what a 'nuisance' it is to be lied to by a company for 4+ years? It feels really good to be able to communicate with these liars publicly without fear of being banned, censored, and force canceled.
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
you have helped me fully understand why companies post signs stating: "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."
Imagine a store front on some busy street. Over the course of 4+ years, at least 10,000 customers enter that store and pay for a product. The store manager tells each and every customer, 'Come back tomorrow to pick up your product.'
For the next 4 years, when any of the 10,000 or more customers come by to pick up their merchandise, the store owner says, 'Not today! Tomorrow!', or 'Not today but things are looking good! Come back again in a few weeks!', or 'Not today! Try coming back next month!'. For 4+ years.
Then there's the customer who comes into the store angry and ranting, waving his wallet. 'Hey you sonofa**** I paid you a long time ago! where is my merchandise?' The merchant throws him out of the store and tells security that customer can never enter again. Some of the angriest customers who were treated this way occasionally stand outside on the street yelling questions and curses at the store owner, but no sound can penetrate the thick walls, and the store owner never replies to them again.
The store owner continues to tell other customers 'tomorrow next week next month next fall'. Some of those customers wander out back on to the street, and inform the angry banned customers, 'He said today tomorrow next week next month next spring!'. Their eyes glazed are over with the stupified look of brainwashed gaslighted zombies. For 4+ years this continues. Waytools has reserved the right to refuse service to every single one of their paying customers. Why would anyone defend them? It gives a whole new meaning to the phrase 'We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.'
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
Edit 2: as this was my 3rd try at responding left a few things out. Had the Gemini, sold it at eBay because without proper SW that takes advantage of the awesome HW / keyboard was very frustrating. Pulled my support for the Cosmo as it seems to follow the same direction.
I do think WT assumes too much about possible competitors trying to sabotage them. Oh, I'm not saying it doesn't happen. It may well be the case. The problem is that when looking at any individual poster, I think the explanation that they are just really angry, to the point of being out of control, is also quite possible. So, imo, best to not make that claim about individuals even if you really think they are doing that.
Dbk - part of what shapes our observations is also the non-public communications from these folks.
Your sense of their motivations might be different too, when integrating those impressions into the overall picture.
In any case, we don’t expect any change in behavior from the pattern. We just try to understand it, and deal with it.
Question for WT: was that directed to me ? ("the non-public communications from these folks")
I ask because Dbk was responding to my post but your comment was not very specific. And if it directed to me in any shape or form please clarify this obscure reference because I do not have a clue what you would be talking about.
Well, I hope not. It does feel discouraging to read some of their renewed passive aggressive posts, but I hope they will start making a stronger effort on the consumer communications front.
I would like to focus more on the TB readiness for the launch rather than all this fighting. Because after more than 300 posts we really do not have any new information. I would like to focus on the details of the status for GR, here at AI for the record.
I hope they will start making a stronger effort on the consumer communications front.
I would like to focus more on the TB readiness for the launch rather than all this fighting. Because after more than 300 posts we really do not have any new information. I would like to focus on the details of the status for GR, here at AI for the record.
WT posted a little earlier today on their forums. Not a lot, but at least it is something and I did tell them we need more:
Dbk - Quick look -
Testing jumps right now, and data from initial testing looks like they’re now about twice as fast.
We think it can be tuned a bit further, but focus first is on full feature-parity with current release.
Above is a sample datapoint, and we’ll finish working through and testing so we’ve got more of the full picture info. With those results, we’ll do a good, in-depth TechTalk write-up.
It only takes a few seconds to change now (startup is a little longer). But it is enough were, depending on your personality, it can feel like it is interrupting your work flow even though, technically, the delay is probably nothing out of the whole day. So really just a psychological thing. But those matter, at least to some people. So cutting it in half or better, while not as good as instant (which probably isn't possible), is still nice to have.
But it is time for that in-depth TechTalk write-up!
Well, I hope not. It does feel discouraging to read some of their renewed passive aggressive posts, but I hope they will start making a stronger effort on the consumer communications front.
I would like to focus more on the TB readiness for the launch rather than all this fighting. Because after more than 300 posts we really do not have any new information. I would like to focus on the details of the status for GR, here at AI for the record.
I am just being realistic with you. There is zero chance Waytools is going to answer any of your questions in any specific or meaningful way. I am not going to let up on them so long as they are gaining any publicity anywhere. They crossed the line from incompetent startup to malicious liars long ago, and as far as I am concerned, they deserve no quarter.
Look at, for example, Kahunas repost above of a Waytools reply on their forum. Do you see any information there that clarifies a general release date? It is the same as every single one of their prior sprinkled updates, buried in a post on a thread on their forum, after Kahuna begs them to post something useful after weeks and weeks of lies about when the next 'official' update will be posted. It is useless information that does not directly address any of your prior questions. They have referred to a 'sample data point', and 'full picture info', in the context of making jumps faster. Does this give you any idea when you will have a Textblade that you paid for? No. And why would doubling the speeds of Jumps matter to anybody at this point? It doesnt. Is that really a feature that needs to block release? No. Is it an improvement they should be prioritizing at this point? No. It is the same nonsense, as always.
As far as I am concerned, its a total fabrication. At best, they have one guy poking at some 4 year old code, trying to rewrite the firmware. They are probably rewriting the firmware because somebody quit who wrote the original code and they have an undocumented mess of code and a new guy trying to pick through it all to fix bugs. They have no money left to hire engineering resources to correct problems quickly or timely, and they have no money left to manufacture all the keyboards that were ordered. Mark Knighton spent it all over the past 4+ years. They need publicity from articles like the one written on Appleinsider in order to generate new sales, so they can perpetuate the pyramid scheme of new money in to cover ancient orders never fulfilled long after the money was collected.
We all probably agree its remarkable that they could live off the money for as long as they have. But overall they are just biding time while lying to everybody.
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
I wonder how NextEngine are doing? They are very proud of that printer, naming it here as part of Textblade's pedigree. All those patents that they have and like to show off.
Sorry was daydreaming there.
I agree that it a rare day when WT issue an unequivocal statement regarding their product. I can't tell you what work is actually happening or how many people are doing it, I can tell you that from WT's recent update there new version of the firmware still has less functionality that the version they moved away from over 10 months ago (july'18). I can also say that when the code refactor was announced, some people sighed and said that 2018 was no longer possible for GR and that 2019 was looking unlikely. Well 2018 did pass and we are nearly 5 months into 2019. even WT has updated they orders page to summer, which for them means "you might get another deadline by September".
I gave never felt that after the butterfly debacle in March 2015 that the product has been close to shipping. Even TREG seemed to be getting something not quite there and I believe that there were 11 physical design revisions during the first year or so. I don't know how you go from production ready in Jan 2015 to feature incomplete firmware in April 2019.
Many people ordered on the strength of the first statement, not preordered the website didn't say that until much later, and their orders are being held up by the second statement in 2019. That does not feel 'ready' to me.
We all probably agree its remarkable that they could live off the money for as long as they have.
There is a theory about that. BC427246 might shed some light.
Whatever concessions they have made to an appearance of propriety in offering refunds, the fact remains that WT holds out a carrot to encourage people to allow them the money they supposedly don't need. Whatever errors WT's detractors make in the details, there remains the four year pattern of tasty delivery estimates which always went unfulfilled.
It's not unusual in human relationships to trade forgiveness for the hope of satisfying desire. I won't get into the question of how often it ends well.
Whatever concessions they have made to an appearance of propriety in offering refunds, the fact remains that WT holds out a carrot to encourage people to allow them the money they supposedly don't need.
Dont forget about the big stick. If you should decide, after waiting for 2 or 3 or 4 years that it is unreasonable for Waytools to continue to earn dividends on your money while they play gaslighting mind games with customers about their never forthcoming product, you lose your place in the order queue, and you lose the so-called 'gift'.
When was the gift first offered? I cant even remember. Around the 1 year mark? Do we get 2 free gifts for 2 years of waiting, or 3 free gifts for 3 years of waiting? Does the gift, which was allegedly 'better' for earlier customers, get better the longer you wait, or does it become the same for all since at some point everybody has waited multiple years? Is it an appreciating asset? A bottle of fine wine properly stored? Or is it a trinket, worth nothing 3 years ago, and less with each year that passes?
A 'gift' never received goes from gesture of goodwill to outright insult. It is a thing you will almost certainly never receive, but will certainly relinquish if they cant keep your money indefinitely.
I would gladly decline the 'gift' in exchange for them sending me the products I paid for right now, but Waytools does not offer that option. They must keep the money. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
This unethical arrangement, imposed upon early customers after they engaged in a transaction to purchase a product, is why these people are rightfully ridiculed and despised.
It's not unusual in human relationships to trade forgiveness for the hope of satisfying desire. I won't get into the question of how often it ends well.
You do not have to wait for the end to see how badly that kind of arrangement works. Waytools poisonous relationship with its customers has been on public display since 2016. Whenever the 'Waytools_Support' character interacts with other people publicly, his personality characteristics - insulting, paranoid, aggressive, impenitent, incompetent, incomprehensible - make it plainly apparent that maintaining any relationship with the company is futile.
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
When was the gift first offered? I cant even remember. Around the 1 year mark? Do we get 2 free gifts for 2 years of waiting, or 3 free gifts for 3 years of waiting? Does the gift, which was allegedly 'better' for earlier customers, get better the longer you wait, or does it become the same for all since at some point everybody has waited multiple years? Is it an appreciating asset? A bottle of fine wine properly stored? Or is it a trinket, worth nothing 3 years ago, and less with each year that passes?
I had ordered in March of 2015, and there were already complaints about delays, and I remember Waytools dangling that carrot even back then (and probably from the beginning). I remember another carrot they dangled -- Keys for Kids (where they promised/estimated/projected to donate $1 million of Textblades to school -- that turned out to be a lie.
I mention this because I never cared about the 'gift' but my girlfriend and I were suckered in by this other carrot, which is Keys for Kids . After the goal was met for Keys for Kids (over 10k preorders) -- which they proudly announced happened within a few days after they started), they stopped talking about it. Since then, it's been effectively No Keys for Any Kid.
I find this to be the most insidious thing Waytools concocted (and there sure are many). Let's set aside for a moment all the customer/company issues, since they're adult matters and we are all adults here. But if a company is willing to use kids to peddle their product and then sweep them under the rug after they got their fill, what does that say about the company? How much lower can they go? Is there a bottom to their pit of lies. Is there anything they will not do or say to sell you a keyboard?
I remember another carrot they dangled -- Keys for Kids (where they promised/estimated/projected to donate $1 million of Textblades to school -- that turned out to be a lie.
Who on earth thought any TB would go to this program BEFORE GR?
Now, if we get GR and they don't give those away, then you can say they lied about it. Otherwise, I'm here to "courteously" provide correction to your statement.
All those 'kids' who were supposed to get 'keys' are grown up by now. I believe they have changed the name of the program to 'Keys For Young Adults'.
Logically it follows that subsequent program titles will be: 'Keys For The Middle Aged', 'Keys For Seniors', and eventually, 'Keys For Your Dead Relatives'.
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
On a related note, has anyone noticed how many people have posted things like, 'I got a wife/husband/baby/new career/divorced/2nd marriage/retired/graveyard plot before I got a Textblade' on the Waytools forum? It seems to have become a thing.
At this point, everything about Waytools is just preposterous.
I remember another carrot they dangled -- Keys for Kids (where they promised/estimated/projected to donate $1 million of Textblades to school -- that turned out to be a lie.
Who on earth thought any TB would go to this program BEFORE GR?
Now, if we get GR and they don't give those away, then you can say they lied about it. Otherwise, I'm here to "courteously" provide correction to your statement.
Who on earth would buy into a campaign that would (honestly) say "We'll donate keyboards to kids" at SOME time, an INDEFINITE time, at least FOUR YEARS later? More importantly, who'd create such ridiculously vague marketing ploy?
Unless there was understanding that GR was imminent, any day now. It can only work if everyone thought Waytools would ship any day now -- a lie they kept feeding.
Remember, the issue of GR (even the term GR) is a rather recent phenomenon. Certainly it came well after they swept Keys for Kids under the rug. Keys for Kids campsaign was based on their assumption that they had duped the public into thinking their product was ready to go -- essentially a lie based on a lie.
That's what happens when you base a lie on another lie. When the underlying lie fails, their whole chain of BS comes crumbling down.
Who on earth thought any TB would go to this program BEFORE GR?
And who on earth would have thought TB would go to journalist(s) before customers, when Waytools specifically stated otherwise.
And who on earth would have thought TB's would be sent out to "customers" not in chronological order of preorders, when Waytools specifically said they wouldn't.
So, now, who on earth would believe anything they say?
Comments
Of course you are playing a character here. In reality you are just a paid mouth piece for a company that takes money from people and provides them nothing in return. If they do not pay you to perform as you do, working so hard to twist every word or turn of a phrase into a rationalization for all of their misdeeds and lies, then that is very strange indeed.
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. Who has the money?
Mark Knighton has the money.
BTW, you said WT should have apologized. I showed that they had. Yet you are still complaining.
Meanwhile, I remind you of this statement:
And the fact that I showed you that they did apologize. Gave you the exact quote. And the article in AI talks about them raising the price. Yet after that is done you act like it doesn't matter anyway. No reason to believe you.
You do not work for Waytools but are offering me interest on a refund? Right. Do you know where you can put your 4 cents? Think on that a while.
I am aware of how much Waytools despises the 'nuisance' of uncensored criticism of their stupid lies. Do you know what a 'nuisance' it is to be lied to by a company for 4+ years? It feels really good to be able to communicate with these liars publicly without fear of being banned, censored, and force canceled.
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
For the next 4 years, when any of the 10,000 or more customers come by to pick up their merchandise, the store owner says, 'Not today! Tomorrow!', or 'Not today but things are looking good! Come back again in a few weeks!', or 'Not today! Try coming back next month!'. For 4+ years.
Then there's the customer who comes into the store angry and ranting, waving his wallet. 'Hey you sonofa**** I paid you a long time ago! where is my merchandise?' The merchant throws him out of the store and tells security that customer can never enter again. Some of the angriest customers who were treated this way occasionally stand outside on the street yelling questions and curses at the store owner, but no sound can penetrate the thick walls, and the store owner never replies to them again.
The store owner continues to tell other customers 'tomorrow next week next month next fall'. Some of those customers wander out back on to the street, and inform the angry banned customers, 'He said today tomorrow next week next month next spring!'. Their eyes glazed are over with the stupified look of brainwashed gaslighted zombies. For 4+ years this continues.
Waytools has reserved the right to refuse service to every single one of their paying customers. Why would anyone defend them? It gives a whole new meaning to the phrase 'We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.'
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
Yep, agree.
Question for WT: was that directed to me ? ("the non-public communications from these folks")
I ask because Dbk was responding to my post but your comment was not very specific.
And if it directed to me in any shape or form please clarify this obscure reference because I do not have a clue what you would be talking about.
I would like to focus more on the TB readiness for the launch rather than all this fighting. Because after more than 300 posts we really do not have any new information. I would like to focus on the details of the status for GR, here at AI for the record.
It only takes a few seconds to change now (startup is a little longer). But it is enough were, depending on your personality, it can feel like it is interrupting your work flow even though, technically, the delay is probably nothing out of the whole day. So really just a psychological thing. But those matter, at least to some people. So cutting it in half or better, while not as good as instant (which probably isn't possible), is still nice to have.
But it is time for that in-depth TechTalk write-up!
Look at, for example, Kahunas repost above of a Waytools reply on their forum. Do you see any information there that clarifies a general release date? It is the same as every single one of their prior sprinkled updates, buried in a post on a thread on their forum, after Kahuna begs them to post something useful after weeks and weeks of lies about when the next 'official' update will be posted. It is useless information that does not directly address any of your prior questions. They have referred to a 'sample data point', and 'full picture info', in the context of making jumps faster. Does this give you any idea when you will have a Textblade that you paid for? No. And why would doubling the speeds of Jumps matter to anybody at this point? It doesnt. Is that really a feature that needs to block release? No. Is it an improvement they should be prioritizing at this point? No. It is the same nonsense, as always.
As far as I am concerned, its a total fabrication. At best, they have one guy poking at some 4 year old code, trying to rewrite the firmware. They are probably rewriting the firmware because somebody quit who wrote the original code and they have an undocumented mess of code and a new guy trying to pick through it all to fix bugs. They have no money left to hire engineering resources to correct problems quickly or timely, and they have no money left to manufacture all the keyboards that were ordered. Mark Knighton spent it all over the past 4+ years. They need publicity from articles like the one written on Appleinsider in order to generate new sales, so they can perpetuate the pyramid scheme of new money in to cover ancient orders never fulfilled long after the money was collected.
We all probably agree its remarkable that they could live off the money for as long as they have. But overall they are just biding time while lying to everybody.
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
Sorry was daydreaming there.
I agree that it a rare day when WT issue an unequivocal statement regarding their product. I can't tell you what work is actually happening or how many people are doing it, I can tell you that from WT's recent update there new version of the firmware still has less functionality that the version they moved away from over 10 months ago (july'18). I can also say that when the code refactor was announced, some people sighed and said that 2018 was no longer possible for GR and that 2019 was looking unlikely. Well 2018 did pass and we are nearly 5 months into 2019. even WT has updated they orders page to summer, which for them means "you might get another deadline by September".
I gave never felt that after the butterfly debacle in March 2015 that the product has been close to shipping. Even TREG seemed to be getting something not quite there and I believe that there were 11 physical design revisions during the first year or so. I don't know how you go from production ready in Jan 2015 to feature incomplete firmware in April 2019.
Many people ordered on the strength of the first statement, not preordered the website didn't say that until much later, and their orders are being held up by the second statement in 2019. That does not feel 'ready' to me.
There is a theory about that. BC427246 might shed some light.
R
It's not unusual in human relationships to trade forgiveness for the hope of satisfying desire. I won't get into the question of how often it ends well.
When was the gift first offered? I cant even remember. Around the 1 year mark? Do we get 2 free gifts for 2 years of waiting, or 3 free gifts for 3 years of waiting? Does the gift, which was allegedly 'better' for earlier customers, get better the longer you wait, or does it become the same for all since at some point everybody has waited multiple years? Is it an appreciating asset? A bottle of fine wine properly stored? Or is it a trinket, worth nothing 3 years ago, and less with each year that passes?
A 'gift' never received goes from gesture of goodwill to outright insult. It is a thing you will almost certainly never receive, but will certainly relinquish if they cant keep your money indefinitely.
I would gladly decline the 'gift' in exchange for them sending me the products I paid for right now, but Waytools does not offer that option. They must keep the money. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
This unethical arrangement, imposed upon early customers after they engaged in a transaction to purchase a product, is why these people are rightfully ridiculed and despised.
You do not have to wait for the end to see how badly that kind of arrangement works. Waytools poisonous relationship with its customers has been on public display since 2016. Whenever the 'Waytools_Support' character interacts with other people publicly, his personality characteristics - insulting, paranoid, aggressive, impenitent, incompetent, incomprehensible - make it plainly apparent that maintaining any relationship with the company is futile.
Millions of dollars collected from 10,000+ customers? 4+ years. No product shipped. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
I mention this because I never cared about the 'gift' but my girlfriend and I were suckered in by this other carrot, which is Keys for Kids . After the goal was met for Keys for Kids (over 10k preorders) -- which they proudly announced happened within a few days after they started), they stopped talking about it. Since then, it's been effectively No Keys for Any Kid.
I find this to be the most insidious thing Waytools concocted (and there sure are many). Let's set aside for a moment all the customer/company issues, since they're adult matters and we are all adults here. But if a company is willing to use kids to peddle their product and then sweep them under the rug after they got their fill, what does that say about the company? How much lower can they go? Is there a bottom to their pit of lies. Is there anything they will not do or say to sell you a keyboard?
Logically it follows that subsequent program titles will be: 'Keys For The Middle Aged', 'Keys For Seniors', and eventually, 'Keys For Your Dead Relatives'.
At this point, everything about Waytools is just preposterous.
Unless there was understanding that GR was imminent, any day now. It can only work if everyone thought Waytools would ship any day now -- a lie they kept feeding.
Remember, the issue of GR (even the term GR) is a rather recent phenomenon. Certainly it came well after they swept Keys for Kids under the rug. Keys for Kids campsaign was based on their assumption that they had duped the public into thinking their product was ready to go -- essentially a lie based on a lie.
That's what happens when you base a lie on another lie. When the underlying lie fails, their whole chain of BS comes crumbling down.
And who on earth would have thought TB's would be sent out to "customers" not in chronological order of preorders, when Waytools specifically said they wouldn't.
So, now, who on earth would believe anything they say?