Allegations of discrimination spawn investigation into Apple Card credit lines

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  • Reply 121 of 141
    larryjw said:
    Wgkrueger said:
    Each person has their own credit history. 
    Almost never true.
    Ok... so you believe that “almost all” couples have the EXACT same credit score??!!

    Lol, I hate to laugh out loud at a stranger’s idiotic notions- but I just did.
  • Reply 122 of 141
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    larryjw said:
    larryjw said:
    clexman said:
    larryjw said:
    Wgkrueger said:
    Each person has their own credit history. 
    Almost never true.
    Unless they have jointly applied for every loan, credit card, bank account, utility account, etc. since day one, their history will be different.
    Unless you're in your 20s 0r 30s, married couples will have identical credit history, and been married for less 10 years, perhaps there is a difference in credit history. They should be identical after this. 
    Nonsense. Every bill, every loan, and all financial accounts and records have both of you listed as the account holder? I don't think so. Auto loans, for instance, only have one signer unless you need to co-sign, which if you have identical credit scores, as you claim, is impossible and makes no sense. 
    To answer your question: YES! Every account we have is jointly owned. 
    Go ahead and pull your free annual credit reports, Larry. It's more likely that you'll win the lottery this week than see that your reports have identical results. Note: This will not contain your credit score.

    edited November 2019
  • Reply 123 of 141
    Removed because this is exhausting 
    Heroic effort nonetheless
  • Reply 124 of 141
    c.m.w.c.m.w. Posts: 4unconfirmed, member
    My wife and I both have the AppleCard, have similar incomes and similar credit scores. And as you would expect, we have the same limit on our cards.  No gender bias here.  Not sure how one tweet from someone who doesn’t offer any details is justification for an investigation.
    StrangeDaysSolidee_deeGeorgeBMacsarthos
  • Reply 125 of 141
    Here’s a novel concept: why don’t people stop whining for a change. Goldman Sachs algorithms have worked for decades based upon factors such as income and net worth. If you don’t like the decision, appeal it with facts, not wokes.
    edited November 2019
  • Reply 126 of 141
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,020member
    MplsP said:
    sdw2001 said:
    tommikele said:
    didn’t meet them
    sdw2001 said:
    How is this guy a successful developer and yet he doesn’t understand how credit works?  

    FYI, he should try my situation:  Nearly spotless credit for 25 years.  Owned a townhome, moved out and rented it.  Two years later, tenants trashed it.  Renovated ($5000 and 100+ hours of hard work), listed for sale in a good market.  No buyers.  Can’t pay mortgage, lender reneged on a short sale by claiming I never sent the paperwork (which was sent three times).  Now in foreclosure.  Got flat out denied for an Apple Card despite other history and solid income.  Cry me a river.  
    Three sides to every story - yours, theirs and the truth. Regardless, you took a mortgage, agreed to terms and didn't fulfill them. Your short sale story sounds like BS. Got proof you sent the paperwork in? Obviously not. You got in over your head and clearly had insufficient capital to be in the rental property business. You had a house of cards and no way to deal with it if anything deviated from your plan. That’s no one’s fault except yours.
    Or maybe you don’t know WTF you’re talking about.  And I couldn’t give a shit if you think my story is BS.  You have no idea what led to the situation, nor am I claiming I don’t owe the money.  I’m simply putting forth an example of what can happen with credit despite years of superb history.  
    There were plenty of stories likely yours in the housing crisis - people getting multiple stories from their lender, etc. unfortunately, what you have to do is be incredibly defensive and get everything in writing as well as confirmation that materials are received. 

    In the end, It doesn’t matter if it was because the bank lied and was incompetent; that doesn’t show up. You had a bad loan on your credit history and it’s going to be hard for you to get credit. 
    Yep.  Proving it is almost impossible.  I only shared some of the story.  They made verbal threats at one point.  They “secondarily secured” the property over my express objections, twice.  I was locked out for several days, as was my Realtor.  I communicated with the senior levels of the bank (a large national lender, very well known) by writing letters to the CEO, CFO, EVP, VPs, etc.  I got some very senior people on the phone.  I finally was aggressive enough and tough enough that I got them to grant me a short sale. It was months later that they claimed they never received the paperwork. I can’t get into all the details, but let’s just say I know that is impossible.  The crazy thing is the house is in immaculate condition and is the lowest priced house currently on the market in that neighborhood.

    Again, I don’t share any of this as a sob story. It is really just in response to the hyperventilating claims of sexism in credit decisions.  Things happen and it sucks.  The end.  

    FYI, I have been able to get credit, it’s just been a little trickier. We’ve been able to buy two vehicles since this happened, I’ll be at at a somewhat higher interest rate than we would have qualified for in the past.  What are you going to do, as they say?  I have my primary residence and have no plans to move.  It will work out eventually.  
  • Reply 127 of 141
    he tweeted her score is higher, but sorry, we have to take his word for it. also there might be a negative bias here. I would like to know the debt/income ratio as well.

    i seriously doubt there is an algorithm that sees female names and automatically lessens the amount that a woman can receive for credit limits.

    when i was growing up young males paid more for car insurance, if we only had twitter then!


    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 128 of 141
    thrangthrang Posts: 1,024member
    firelock said:
    The actual issue here is that Apple Card does not allow additional card holders to be added to the primary user's account. That is very unusual and will likely slow the use, if not the adoption, of Apple Card. For example, both my wife and adult daughter have additional cards on my main credit card account. Particularly in the case of my daughter who just graduated college this gives her a great deal of additional spending ability that she would not otherwise have. The credit card company doesn’t care what my daughter’s credit rating is because there is only one bill —mine— and as long as I continue to make the payments in time all is good.

    DHH has obscured the real issue described above by floating a red herring about discrimination that stems from his actual or feigned ignorance of how credit works.
    Yes. I suspect the discrimination claim is unfounded. What possible benefit is there to GS to not offer higher lines, regardless of sex, if otherwise qualified? There is none. More than likely the primary SSN on many activities is the man's if they handle the finances in the household, the the credit scores are different. Mine and my wife's are different to this day after more than 30 years of marriage.

    As much as an Apple fan that I am, I have not signed up yet for Apple Card because you cannot have authorized users, which is deal-breaker for us.

    My wife and I currently "share" the same cards. and since she travels a lot and I'm responsible to the finances, the last thing I want is two separate accounts where our financial business is "separated" (marriage doesn't work like that for most), and more importantly, not being able to manage payments on her behalf when she is traveling, or raising disputes, etc.

    I wrote to Jennifer Bailey about this when the card first launched and got a reply - nothing specific unfortunately, but that Apple understood the position that this was an important request.
  • Reply 129 of 141
    There may be something to this. I have a 760 credit rating and was approved for a $7500 credit line. My wife has a 790 credit rating, and she was denied twice (with a two month wait between tries.)
    There are possible explanations for this result, but’s it clear they don’t rely strictly on credit score. 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 130 of 141
    pgpappas said:
    My wife and I had the same issue. She had a slightly higher credit score and makes more money than I do.  I received 10K in credit. She only got 7500. All other aspects of our financial information are the same. The only possible explanation is gender based discrimination.
    this is actually only one possible explanation. you are pretending to know more than you do about how a banking company decides credit limits based on an algorithm.
    sarthos
  • Reply 131 of 141
    My wife and i married 12 years.. She got 30% higher credit limit than i did. I don't have a linear income... she does.
  • Reply 132 of 141
    Her credit score will match his once she divorces him and then has 90% of his wealth.
  • Reply 133 of 141
    JFC_PAJFC_PA Posts: 938member
    20x isn’t simply gender. No way. Something on her form was a pretty big red flag. Or her identity was stolen and some one else generated the red flag.  Well, with an investigation I expect privacy will be breached so whatever it is will get revealed. Lots of ways an application can go sideways from a simple typo to a police record for fraud or many things in between. 
  • Reply 134 of 141
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    Well that settles it.

    Goldman Sachs released a statement - “We have not, and will not, make decisions based on factors like gender.”

    This whole story which has been repeated and spread by numerous media outlets is basically fake news and they're spreading the lies and BS fabricated claims of some overly emotional SJW on twitter, who happens to be a "VIP", whose false accusations are nothing but fabrications and made up fantasies that exist in their own mind only.

    Just because something doesn't turn out the way one wishes it to, that doesn't mean that there is automatically sexism, racism or any other kind of "ism" behind it, and you don't get a free pass to act like an infant, whining and making outrageous claims against others.

    Show the proof or stfu and don't make slanderous, garbage claims and false accusations against others. 

    To be honest, Goldman Sachs should have cancelled both his card and his wife's card. Who cares how successful or how much money that person has? Why would a company want a customer that is going around spreading garbage false rumors about them, claiming that their product is sexist?

    I'm pretty tired of these virtue signaling asshats by now, and I don't think I'm the only one.
    edited November 2019 DuhSesametrashman69
  • Reply 135 of 141
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    DAalseth said:
    This is not an Apple or an Apple Card issue. This may not even be a Goldman Sachs issue. It may suggest an underlying bias in the credit and credit rating system. That is what needs to be examined. 

    Fix the root cause and you solve problems. Fix symptoms and you make no progress.
    But, if the cause is that an applicant is deemed unlikely to be able to repay the loan (say due to lack of income), then it is unfair to the lender to expect them to lend them (much) money.  The unfairness is not that of the lender but of life in general and must be fixed by the applicant rather than the lender.

    That said, perhaps the lender should also take into account assets as well as income.  But that adds a whole new wrinkle they may not be willing to deal with.  And, in this case, it is possible that both the income and the assets were all in her husband's name.
  • Reply 136 of 141
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    apple ][ said:
    Well that settles it.

    Goldman Sachs released a statement - “We have not, and will not, make decisions based on factors like gender.”

    This whole story which has been repeated and spread by numerous media outlets is basically fake news and they're spreading the lies and BS fabricated claims of some overly emotional SJW on twitter, who happens to be a "VIP", whose false accusations are nothing but fabrications and made up fantasies that exist in their own mind only.

    Just because something doesn't turn out the way one wishes it to, that doesn't mean that there is automatically sexism, racism or any other kind of "ism" behind it, and you don't get a free pass to act like an infant, whining and making outrageous claims against others.

    Show the proof or stfu and don't make slanderous, garbage claims and false accusations against others. 

    To be honest, Goldman Sachs should have cancelled both his card and his wife's card. Who cares how successful or how much money that person has? Why would a company want a customer that is going around spreading garbage false rumors about them, claiming that their product is sexist?

    I'm pretty tired of these virtue signaling asshats by now, and I don't think I'm the only one.
    It's not really fake news.   It would be if it were only based on this guy's claims.   But a government agency (not sure if it was state or federal) gave it credibility by announcing it what was starting an investigation.  That is likely what gave the story legs.
    chemengin1
  • Reply 137 of 141
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    apple ][ said:
    Well that settles it.

    Goldman Sachs released a statement - “We have not, and will not, make decisions based on factors like gender.”

    This whole story which has been repeated and spread by numerous media outlets is basically fake news and they're spreading the lies and BS fabricated claims of some overly emotional SJW on twitter, who happens to be a "VIP", whose false accusations are nothing but fabrications and made up fantasies that exist in their own mind only.

    Just because something doesn't turn out the way one wishes it to, that doesn't mean that there is automatically sexism, racism or any other kind of "ism" behind it, and you don't get a free pass to act like an infant, whining and making outrageous claims against others.

    Show the proof or stfu and don't make slanderous, garbage claims and false accusations against others. 

    To be honest, Goldman Sachs should have cancelled both his card and his wife's card. Who cares how successful or how much money that person has? Why would a company want a customer that is going around spreading garbage false rumors about them, claiming that their product is sexist?

    I'm pretty tired of these virtue signaling asshats by now, and I don't think I'm the only one.
    It's not really fake news.   It would be if it were only based on this guy's claims.   But a government agency (not sure if it was state or federal) gave it credibility by announcing it what was starting an investigation.  That is likely what gave the story legs.
    New York I believe. Many loonies there.

    The investigation began because somebody saw a tweet? They must not have a lot to do.

    Yesterday morning, I read a tweet thread from @DHH detailing how his @AppleCard credit limit was considerably higher than that of his wife —who had a higher credit score.

  • Reply 138 of 141
    rcfarcfa Posts: 1,124member
    Looking at the spending habits of “influencers”, “Instagram babes”, “pouty lip glamour girls”, the cries of desperation of buddies who have to pick up the tabs of their GF’s and wives spending habits:

    It can’t come at a surprise, that if simple credit worthiness is used, without a bonus factor for being female, that lower credit scores are the result.

    We live in an age when simple waitresses thing Prosecco isn’t good enough for then, and order Champagne, and think they need LV, Channel, and Gucci bags costing thousands each.

    Any responsible daddy, and credit card companies function as such, will cut off access to funds in such cases.

    Sure, there are plenty of other types of women, but guess which kind is the most likely to want to carry a trendy Apple Card: the responsible mom, or always brand-aware instagirl?
  • Reply 139 of 141
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    apple ][ said:
    apple ][ said:
    Well that settles it.

    Goldman Sachs released a statement - “We have not, and will not, make decisions based on factors like gender.”

    This whole story which has been repeated and spread by numerous media outlets is basically fake news and they're spreading the lies and BS fabricated claims of some overly emotional SJW on twitter, who happens to be a "VIP", whose false accusations are nothing but fabrications and made up fantasies that exist in their own mind only.

    Just because something doesn't turn out the way one wishes it to, that doesn't mean that there is automatically sexism, racism or any other kind of "ism" behind it, and you don't get a free pass to act like an infant, whining and making outrageous claims against others.

    Show the proof or stfu and don't make slanderous, garbage claims and false accusations against others. 

    To be honest, Goldman Sachs should have cancelled both his card and his wife's card. Who cares how successful or how much money that person has? Why would a company want a customer that is going around spreading garbage false rumors about them, claiming that their product is sexist?

    I'm pretty tired of these virtue signaling asshats by now, and I don't think I'm the only one.
    It's not really fake news.   It would be if it were only based on this guy's claims.   But a government agency (not sure if it was state or federal) gave it credibility by announcing it what was starting an investigation.  That is likely what gave the story legs.
    New York I believe. Many loonies there.

    The investigation began because somebody saw a tweet? They must not have a lot to do.

    Yesterday morning, I read a tweet thread from @DHH detailing how his @AppleCard credit limit was considerably higher than that of his wife —who had a higher credit score.

    Yeh, or somebody trying to make a name for themselves by exploiting a current hot button social issue...
  • Reply 140 of 141
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    rcfa said:
    Looking at the spending habits of “influencers”, “Instagram babes”, “pouty lip glamour girls”, the cries of desperation of buddies who have to pick up the tabs of their GF’s and wives spending habits:

    It can’t come at a surprise, that if simple credit worthiness is used, without a bonus factor for being female, that lower credit scores are the result.

    We live in an age when simple waitresses thing Prosecco isn’t good enough for then, and order Champagne, and think they need LV, Channel, and Gucci bags costing thousands each.

    Any responsible daddy, and credit card companies function as such, will cut off access to funds in such cases.

    Sure, there are plenty of other types of women, but guess which kind is the most likely to want to carry a trendy Apple Card: the responsible mom, or always brand-aware instagirl?
    Wow, spot the incel.
    SoliGeorgeBMac
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