China ready to retaliate against Apple after U.S. moves to ban chip shipments to Huawei

135

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 91
    The biggest issues was that people forget how Huawei got in trouble with the US government in the first place:

    1, Huawei has this win at any cost, including steel and copy any IP without paying a license fee.
    2, Selling to Iran.  When caught, form a paper company in Hong Kong and continue to sell to Iran
    3, For years CCP gave Huawei preferential banking terms and protected its market position from foreign competition.

    Say what you will on Trump, he's the only president that stands up to CCP.
    SpamSandwichtmaylkruppcat52spock1234watto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 91
    The SEE SEE PEE is garbage first and foremost
    i hope the the Chinese people quit buying Apple products all together cause I, as well as many more than anyone here on this armchair expert forum would admit, give a f* less if Apple makes ANY money in the mainland
    silent majority is greater than you’re willing to believe

    cheers
  • Reply 43 of 91
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,909member
    avon b7 said:
    Anilu_777 said:
    lkrupp said:
    With the number of Huawei cheerleaders both here and in Europe I wonder what happens when it’s proven without a doubt that Huawei tech is used for espionage by the CCP? Think about it and use common sense. For a brutal, totalitarian dictatorship the temptation is simply too irresistible to ignore, especially when there will be no repercussions when it is proven. 
    The problem is (and I’m agreeing with you) that by the time Huawei has managed to convince enough governments to allow it to build and sell infrastructure it’s too costly and too late to pull it out. We have to be prudent and have foresight to prevent it. 

    And Apple will need to shift more production to Vietnam and other places to make sure it’s not affected by the CCP policies as well as American ones. It seems Apple is caught in the middle - seen as American even though its contract with Foxconn creates thousands of jobs for Chinese workers, and seen as Chinese by American policy makers for that same reason. 
    Apple also wants to sell in China. What good is moving production if you lose access to one of your biggest markets?

    If Huawei phones can't be distributed fairly in the U.S. why can't China do exactly the same with iPhones?

    Just two years ago AT&T was fired up and ready to give Huawei it first major carrier distribution deal on U.S soil. Then it was pressured out of the deal by government.

    As for Boeing, if things weren't already bad enough (the MAX fiasco), China just cancelled orders for nearly 30 MAX aircraft and the prospect of losing all Boeing orders from China (trillions of dollar's worth over the coming decades) would destroy the commercial aviation business in the U.S. Of course Airbus is salivating right now having had a special delegation working with China for over a year already.

    Let's not forget that trillions of dollars (euros!) going to Airbus would not come 'free' . Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.


    That’s a uniquely uninformed post regarding Boeing. China only made up 13.6% of Boeing’s total revenues in 2018.
    It is not uninformed. It was a forward facing point. Boeing is looking to a deal worth trillions in revenues from China over the next two decades with a large increase in business. To be exact, Boeing set China's aircraft needs at three trillion dollars. 

    Losing that would have a major impact (on top of the billions that the MAX has cost the company) . Now we have COVID-19 likely to send some airlines out of business and a dramatic reshaping of the airline industry with COVID-19 related losses set to leave a mark for up to possibly five years.

    Losing business is bad enough. Seeing it go straight to your biggest competitor is worse still. On top of that China is pumping up its own aviation business. Long term we are going to see another major competitor in this field. 

    If Boeing gets whacked as a result of this move it is going to be majorly affected. 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 44 of 91
    BeatsBeats Posts: 3,073member
    avon b7 said:
    red oak said:
    avon b7 said:
    red oak said:
    Hey, how is that new Huawei operating system doing?  That is right - it’s a total zero 

    Wait for the US to pull all Android inc “open source” out of China.  Then the real fun will begin 

    China does not realize the hole its dug for itself.  Who in their right mind will ever build another factory there? 




    HarmonyOS 1.0 shipped last year on TVs. The kernel was on Huawei watches last year too. It is also running on some routers.

    HarmonyOS 2.0 was just released - on schedule. 

    It will interface with the Huawei Hi-Car module due to ship on 118 car models starting this June. 

    Parts of it are also tucked away in EMUI. 

    If rumours are your thing:

    https://www.gizchina.com/2020/05/02/huawei-to-replace-windows-10-with-harmonyos-2-0-in-its-pcs/

    The U.S cannot pull the 'Open Source' out of China (at least realistically). Huawei is an international company with non-Chinese companies all over the place. 

    For example, my data (and everyone else's in the EU) is managed by Aspiegel. An Irish company (owned by Huawei). 

    FWIW, In theory at least, HarmonyOS itself should go fully Open Source by August this year. 


    Of course Android open source can be pulled from Chinese mfg.   At best, it will be forked and China will be on its own having to learn to develop and support a large scale OS which it has never done before.   The market for that Chinese OS outside of China would be about "0".    Do you really think India would ever allow it? 

    And, how is the Huawei app ecosystem coming along?      How are they doing replicating all the Google apps and services that come with 'standard' Android?    Why have they not brought this OS to their cellphones? 


    I think you are confused or mixing things up. 

    It won't be China that has to learn to develop a large scale OS. It would be Huawei

    However, they are already doing that and HarmonyOS would simply mean baking the whole cake.

    As for why HarmonyOS isn't on cellphones, they have made many comments on the subject but trying to cover all the bases. The official line is that they would prefer to continue their work with Android and that's what Google says too. Reading between the lines, I think it's clear that it is coming. Some rumours even point to this autumn. 

    I think you are seriously underestimating the complexity of EMUI, how it ties in with Android today and the extras it adds to the system. For example, when Huawei released the NPU, it developed its own runtime while also supporting the stock Android runtime. Beyond that support and looking in the other direction to huge AI compute platforms on the Ascend line of processors for example, they introduced the DaVinci architecture and Mindspore. Ascend scales down from huge AI clusters (Ascend 910 on Atlas 900) right down through everything below it, passing through phones and stopping at Ascend Nano for earbuds and the like.

    The App ecosystem is coming along very nicely. Incredible what they have done in less than 12 months. They actually claim that HMS is more secure than GMS. They have signed TomTom, Here and (as you mentioned India) MapMyIndia, to cover the loss of Google Maps. In the process they have given a huge boost to Google Maps competitors. 

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/04/26/huawei-surprises-millions-of-users-with-stunning-google-alternative/#89003a655b06

    Huawei AppGallery takes less of a cut from developers than Apple or Google stores.

    The Huawei Assistant will break out of China to cover the loss of Google Assistant. 

    Of course Google lobbied hard to be able to do business with Huawei and applied for a licence. It stands to lose billions in revenue as a result of not being able to do business with Huawei and see the market further divided. They had plans to release an audio device with Huawei (Co-developed) which had to be shelved. 

    App Gallery is already the third largest App Store in the world.

    It is not a 100% replacement for GMS just yet, but it is getting there. 

    And, before you ask, the hardware ecosystem, it's not too shabby either:



    I'm not sure what relevance all this has to the thread. You'd do better opening your own thread if you want to take this line further. 



    My goodness those things in the video are obvious knockoffs. I Bert their OS will be based off of Apple's software (forked android with touch gestures).  
    cat52spock1234watto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 91
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,909member
    Beats said:
    avon b7 said:
    red oak said:
    avon b7 said:
    red oak said:
    Hey, how is that new Huawei operating system doing?  That is right - it’s a total zero 

    Wait for the US to pull all Android inc “open source” out of China.  Then the real fun will begin 

    China does not realize the hole its dug for itself.  Who in their right mind will ever build another factory there? 




    HarmonyOS 1.0 shipped last year on TVs. The kernel was on Huawei watches last year too. It is also running on some routers.

    HarmonyOS 2.0 was just released - on schedule. 

    It will interface with the Huawei Hi-Car module due to ship on 118 car models starting this June. 

    Parts of it are also tucked away in EMUI. 

    If rumours are your thing:

    https://www.gizchina.com/2020/05/02/huawei-to-replace-windows-10-with-harmonyos-2-0-in-its-pcs/

    The U.S cannot pull the 'Open Source' out of China (at least realistically). Huawei is an international company with non-Chinese companies all over the place. 

    For example, my data (and everyone else's in the EU) is managed by Aspiegel. An Irish company (owned by Huawei). 

    FWIW, In theory at least, HarmonyOS itself should go fully Open Source by August this year. 


    Of course Android open source can be pulled from Chinese mfg.   At best, it will be forked and China will be on its own having to learn to develop and support a large scale OS which it has never done before.   The market for that Chinese OS outside of China would be about "0".    Do you really think India would ever allow it? 

    And, how is the Huawei app ecosystem coming along?      How are they doing replicating all the Google apps and services that come with 'standard' Android?    Why have they not brought this OS to their cellphones? 


    I think you are confused or mixing things up. 

    It won't be China that has to learn to develop a large scale OS. It would be Huawei

    However, they are already doing that and HarmonyOS would simply mean baking the whole cake.

    As for why HarmonyOS isn't on cellphones, they have made many comments on the subject but trying to cover all the bases. The official line is that they would prefer to continue their work with Android and that's what Google says too. Reading between the lines, I think it's clear that it is coming. Some rumours even point to this autumn. 

    I think you are seriously underestimating the complexity of EMUI, how it ties in with Android today and the extras it adds to the system. For example, when Huawei released the NPU, it developed its own runtime while also supporting the stock Android runtime. Beyond that support and looking in the other direction to huge AI compute platforms on the Ascend line of processors for example, they introduced the DaVinci architecture and Mindspore. Ascend scales down from huge AI clusters (Ascend 910 on Atlas 900) right down through everything below it, passing through phones and stopping at Ascend Nano for earbuds and the like.

    The App ecosystem is coming along very nicely. Incredible what they have done in less than 12 months. They actually claim that HMS is more secure than GMS. They have signed TomTom, Here and (as you mentioned India) MapMyIndia, to cover the loss of Google Maps. In the process they have given a huge boost to Google Maps competitors. 

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/04/26/huawei-surprises-millions-of-users-with-stunning-google-alternative/#89003a655b06

    Huawei AppGallery takes less of a cut from developers than Apple or Google stores.

    The Huawei Assistant will break out of China to cover the loss of Google Assistant. 

    Of course Google lobbied hard to be able to do business with Huawei and applied for a licence. It stands to lose billions in revenue as a result of not being able to do business with Huawei and see the market further divided. They had plans to release an audio device with Huawei (Co-developed) which had to be shelved. 

    App Gallery is already the third largest App Store in the world.

    It is not a 100% replacement for GMS just yet, but it is getting there. 

    And, before you ask, the hardware ecosystem, it's not too shabby either:



    I'm not sure what relevance all this has to the thread. You'd do better opening your own thread if you want to take this line further. 



    My goodness those things in the video are obvious knockoffs. I Bert their OS will be based off of Apple's software (forked android with touch gestures).  

    Well, if they make HarmonyOS Open Source this year you will be able to see for yourself. 

    As it is, we know the approach is quite different to Apple’s. Apple has iOS, Watch OS, iPad OS, macOS etc. Huawei plans for one OS and virtualised hardware. That is, the best hardware for a task can be used depending on what is available for you choose from.

    I don't remember ever having seen an OLED TV from Apple running proprietary chipsets. 




  • Reply 46 of 91
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,442member
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    avon b7 said:
    red oak said:
    avon b7 said:
    red oak said:
    Hey, how is that new Huawei operating system doing?  That is right - it’s a total zero 

    Wait for the US to pull all Android inc “open source” out of China.  Then the real fun will begin 

    China does not realize the hole its dug for itself.  Who in their right mind will ever build another factory there? 




    HarmonyOS 1.0 shipped last year on TVs. The kernel was on Huawei watches last year too. It is also running on some routers.

    HarmonyOS 2.0 was just released - on schedule. 

    It will interface with the Huawei Hi-Car module due to ship on 118 car models starting this June. 

    Parts of it are also tucked away in EMUI. 

    If rumours are your thing:

    https://www.gizchina.com/2020/05/02/huawei-to-replace-windows-10-with-harmonyos-2-0-in-its-pcs/

    The U.S cannot pull the 'Open Source' out of China (at least realistically). Huawei is an international company with non-Chinese companies all over the place. 

    For example, my data (and everyone else's in the EU) is managed by Aspiegel. An Irish company (owned by Huawei). 

    FWIW, In theory at least, HarmonyOS itself should go fully Open Source by August this year. 


    Of course Android open source can be pulled from Chinese mfg.   At best, it will be forked and China will be on its own having to learn to develop and support a large scale OS which it has never done before.   The market for that Chinese OS outside of China would be about "0".    Do you really think India would ever allow it? 

    And, how is the Huawei app ecosystem coming along?      How are they doing replicating all the Google apps and services that come with 'standard' Android?    Why have they not brought this OS to their cellphones? 


    I think you are confused or mixing things up. 

    It won't be China that has to learn to develop a large scale OS. It would be Huawei

    However, they are already doing that and HarmonyOS would simply mean baking the whole cake.

    As for why HarmonyOS isn't on cellphones, they have made many comments on the subject but trying to cover all the bases. The official line is that they would prefer to continue their work with Android and that's what Google says too. Reading between the lines, I think it's clear that it is coming. Some rumours even point to this autumn. 

    I think you are seriously underestimating the complexity of EMUI, how it ties in with Android today and the extras it adds to the system. For example, when Huawei released the NPU, it developed its own runtime while also supporting the stock Android runtime. Beyond that support and looking in the other direction to huge AI compute platforms on the Ascend line of processors for example, they introduced the DaVinci architecture and Mindspore. Ascend scales down from huge AI clusters (Ascend 910 on Atlas 900) right down through everything below it, passing through phones and stopping at Ascend Nano for earbuds and the like.

    The App ecosystem is coming along very nicely. Incredible what they have done in less than 12 months. They actually claim that HMS is more secure than GMS. They have signed TomTom, Here and (as you mentioned India) MapMyIndia, to cover the loss of Google Maps. In the process they have given a huge boost to Google Maps competitors. 

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/04/26/huawei-surprises-millions-of-users-with-stunning-google-alternative/#89003a655b06

    Huawei AppGallery takes less of a cut from developers than Apple or Google stores.

    The Huawei Assistant will break out of China to cover the loss of Google Assistant. 

    Of course Google lobbied hard to be able to do business with Huawei and applied for a licence. It stands to lose billions in revenue as a result of not being able to do business with Huawei and see the market further divided. They had plans to release an audio device with Huawei (Co-developed) which had to be shelved. 

    App Gallery is already the third largest App Store in the world.

    It is not a 100% replacement for GMS just yet, but it is getting there. 

    And, before you ask, the hardware ecosystem, it's not too shabby either:



    I'm not sure what relevance all this has to the thread. You'd do better opening your own thread if you want to take this line further. 



    My goodness those things in the video are obvious knockoffs. I Bert their OS will be based off of Apple's software (forked android with touch gestures).  

    Well, if they make HarmonyOS Open Source this year you will be able to see for yourself. 

    As it is, we know the approach is quite different to Apple’s. Apple has iOS, Watch OS, iPad OS, macOS etc. Huawei plans for one OS and virtualised hardware. That is, the best hardware for a task can be used depending on what is available for you choose from.

    I don't remember ever having seen an OLED TV from Apple running proprietary chipsets. 




    https://www.apple.com/pro-display-xdr/

    https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21161487/apple-mac-pro-display-xdr-review-6k-lcd-screen-price-features

    "I’m telling you all of this so that I can put Apple’s riff on local dimming into context. It’s still local dimming, but Apple says it’s using special blue LEDs in 576 zones — one LED per zone — behind a set of custom lenses and layers that even out colors and brightness. The whole thing is run by a custom Apple-designed timing controller that runs the backlight at 10 times the refresh rate of the display itself, which should reduce smearing. Using certain industry-standard VESA test patterns, Apple says the Pro Display XDR can hit a contrast ratio of a million-to-one, which is right up there with OLED.

    When I first saw the Pro Display XDR, I was incredibly impressed by how it looked. The black levels in high-contrast scenes with a lot of black are there. The resolution is undeniable, especially with 4K video and photography. And it is incredibly bright in that default mode that can hit 1,600 nits. There’s not a lot out there like it. As we were working on our review video and having people gather around the display to watch different edits, it always attracted a crowd. It’s just nice to look at."


    But, but, not OLED.

    Sony X300 OLED is $34K, so the XDR has some issues with light falloff at that sides, but is 5 times cheaper.

    spock1234watto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 91
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    lkrupp said:
    I guess we’re going to find out who has the biggest set of balls. My guess? The U.S. will cave.

    Well yeh,  to Trump this is all just political theater meant to rally his cult and help his re-election.
    To China, it is yet another attack on their country.   And, they're are making it clear they've had enough of being bullied.

    Trump will cave -- just as he did the last time -- once he realizes he is losing more than he's gaining.
    ... But, just like last time, the real losers will be the American and Chinese people.
    dewme
  • Reply 48 of 91
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    draenar said:
    The big question here will be what positions will the presidential candidates take.

    If this becomes a public issue, the US public will stand up for the US, and the country will not cave.

    If left to backroom politics, the story may be very different.

    We already know that.   It will be a repeat of the lead up to the Iraq War:
    Republicans will continue to spread fear, hate and lies to build their case against another country.
    Democrats will nod and not only not call Bull but kinda go along with it -- not voting against anti-China bills, etc.

    But, the wild card is the media:  
    Yeh, we know where Faux, ClearChannel, Limbaugh, etc.,  will go.
    The wild card is the real media:   during the leadup to the Iraq war they never seriously questioned or challenged the lies.  Likewise, in the buildup to the 2016 election, they never seriously challenged Trump and his lies.   But, over the past three years, like China, they have shown an increasing lack of tolerance of the lies, disinformation and corruption.   But, in this case, nothing is assured even there:   The mainstream media has barely even mentioned this travesty.   It seems its just another of Trump's con games and not worthy of attention.

  • Reply 49 of 91
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    "That ban inspired a "Boycott Apple" movement in China, with some companies in the country threatening to fire employees who used the company's products instead of Chinese ones."

    "Some companies" here is Huawei, a direct competitor to Apple. It's not surprising that Huawei doesn't want its employees using iPhones in public or on Twitter, etc, any more than Microsoft discouraged employees from brandishing Macs and iPods. And while Huawei is run by Communist Party members, it is not China. The suggestion of "boycotts" against Apple were not real or at least not material enough to notice. China is boycotting Samsung, but that is more from a general hatred of Korea in general. China doesn't have that kind of prejudice against Americans.

    Sure the State is going to order Huaweis and can push back against Boeing and do nothing to help Qualcomm collect its licensing revenue from Chinese firms, but it's not really incentivized to kill the manufacturing of, or domestic sales of, most of the higher-end phones sold globally and across China. The suggestion of "investigating" Apple among "companies that block or shut supply chains, or take discriminatory measures for non-commercial reasons" doesn't seem like it would get very far. 

    I agree....
    But they also know that they can pressure Tim who in turn will pressure Trump.  
    I keep waiting for them to arrest Tim's daughter and hold her hostage like we are doing with the Ren's.   Oh wait!   Never mind!
  • Reply 50 of 91
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    georgie01 said:
    Whatever someone thinks of Trump as president, he’s a very successful businessman and knows how to negotiate far better than anyone of us including our favourite government leaders (anyone wanting to bring up some of Trump’s business failures please spare us your ignorance).

    Growth takes sacrifice, sometimes painful, especially in a situation like this where we’re entrenched in problematic ways due to past government leaders not having the business sense or courage to stand up to China’s tactics. Regardless of what you think of Trump’s other policies, we should all be thanking him for having the courage to rock the boat with China.  

    I'm waiting to see any semblance of anything but a playground bully, a fool and a loser.
  • Reply 51 of 91
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    lkrupp said:
    With the number of Huawei cheerleaders both here and in Europe I wonder what happens when it’s proven without a doubt that Huawei tech is used for espionage by the CCP? Think about it and use common sense. For a brutal, totalitarian dictatorship the temptation is simply too irresistible to ignore, especially when there will be no repercussions when it is proven. 

    Waiting....
    .... Dozens of countries have demanded that evidence but, so far, all we have are years of Trump's lies and fabrications.

    So, to any but the Trumpers, it is not a matter of cheerleading for Huawei but simply going with the best and the cheapest.   That's how free markets work when they're free.,
  • Reply 52 of 91
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,909member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    avon b7 said:
    red oak said:
    avon b7 said:
    red oak said:
    Hey, how is that new Huawei operating system doing?  That is right - it’s a total zero 

    Wait for the US to pull all Android inc “open source” out of China.  Then the real fun will begin 

    China does not realize the hole its dug for itself.  Who in their right mind will ever build another factory there? 




    HarmonyOS 1.0 shipped last year on TVs. The kernel was on Huawei watches last year too. It is also running on some routers.

    HarmonyOS 2.0 was just released - on schedule. 

    It will interface with the Huawei Hi-Car module due to ship on 118 car models starting this June. 

    Parts of it are also tucked away in EMUI. 

    If rumours are your thing:

    https://www.gizchina.com/2020/05/02/huawei-to-replace-windows-10-with-harmonyos-2-0-in-its-pcs/

    The U.S cannot pull the 'Open Source' out of China (at least realistically). Huawei is an international company with non-Chinese companies all over the place. 

    For example, my data (and everyone else's in the EU) is managed by Aspiegel. An Irish company (owned by Huawei). 

    FWIW, In theory at least, HarmonyOS itself should go fully Open Source by August this year. 


    Of course Android open source can be pulled from Chinese mfg.   At best, it will be forked and China will be on its own having to learn to develop and support a large scale OS which it has never done before.   The market for that Chinese OS outside of China would be about "0".    Do you really think India would ever allow it? 

    And, how is the Huawei app ecosystem coming along?      How are they doing replicating all the Google apps and services that come with 'standard' Android?    Why have they not brought this OS to their cellphones? 


    I think you are confused or mixing things up. 

    It won't be China that has to learn to develop a large scale OS. It would be Huawei

    However, they are already doing that and HarmonyOS would simply mean baking the whole cake.

    As for why HarmonyOS isn't on cellphones, they have made many comments on the subject but trying to cover all the bases. The official line is that they would prefer to continue their work with Android and that's what Google says too. Reading between the lines, I think it's clear that it is coming. Some rumours even point to this autumn. 

    I think you are seriously underestimating the complexity of EMUI, how it ties in with Android today and the extras it adds to the system. For example, when Huawei released the NPU, it developed its own runtime while also supporting the stock Android runtime. Beyond that support and looking in the other direction to huge AI compute platforms on the Ascend line of processors for example, they introduced the DaVinci architecture and Mindspore. Ascend scales down from huge AI clusters (Ascend 910 on Atlas 900) right down through everything below it, passing through phones and stopping at Ascend Nano for earbuds and the like.

    The App ecosystem is coming along very nicely. Incredible what they have done in less than 12 months. They actually claim that HMS is more secure than GMS. They have signed TomTom, Here and (as you mentioned India) MapMyIndia, to cover the loss of Google Maps. In the process they have given a huge boost to Google Maps competitors. 

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/04/26/huawei-surprises-millions-of-users-with-stunning-google-alternative/#89003a655b06

    Huawei AppGallery takes less of a cut from developers than Apple or Google stores.

    The Huawei Assistant will break out of China to cover the loss of Google Assistant. 

    Of course Google lobbied hard to be able to do business with Huawei and applied for a licence. It stands to lose billions in revenue as a result of not being able to do business with Huawei and see the market further divided. They had plans to release an audio device with Huawei (Co-developed) which had to be shelved. 

    App Gallery is already the third largest App Store in the world.

    It is not a 100% replacement for GMS just yet, but it is getting there. 

    And, before you ask, the hardware ecosystem, it's not too shabby either:



    I'm not sure what relevance all this has to the thread. You'd do better opening your own thread if you want to take this line further. 



    My goodness those things in the video are obvious knockoffs. I Bert their OS will be based off of Apple's software (forked android with touch gestures).  

    Well, if they make HarmonyOS Open Source this year you will be able to see for yourself. 

    As it is, we know the approach is quite different to Apple’s. Apple has iOS, Watch OS, iPad OS, macOS etc. Huawei plans for one OS and virtualised hardware. That is, the best hardware for a task can be used depending on what is available for you choose from.

    I don't remember ever having seen an OLED TV from Apple running proprietary chipsets. 




    https://www.apple.com/pro-display-xdr/

    https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21161487/apple-mac-pro-display-xdr-review-6k-lcd-screen-price-features

    "I’m telling you all of this so that I can put Apple’s riff on local dimming into context. It’s still local dimming, but Apple says it’s using special blue LEDs in 576 zones — one LED per zone — behind a set of custom lenses and layers that even out colors and brightness. The whole thing is run by a custom Apple-designed timing controller that runs the backlight at 10 times the refresh rate of the display itself, which should reduce smearing. Using certain industry-standard VESA test patterns, Apple says the Pro Display XDR can hit a contrast ratio of a million-to-one, which is right up there with OLED.

    When I first saw the Pro Display XDR, I was incredibly impressed by how it looked. The black levels in high-contrast scenes with a lot of black are there. The resolution is undeniable, especially with 4K video and photography. And it is incredibly bright in that default mode that can hit 1,600 nits. There’s not a lot out there like it. As we were working on our review video and having people gather around the display to watch different edits, it always attracted a crowd. It’s just nice to look at."


    But, but, not OLED.

    Sony X300 OLED is $34K, so the XDR has some issues with light falloff at that sides, but is 5 times cheaper.

    You are talking about a monitor and a controller.

    I was talking about an OLED TV and a chipset (a full SoC). Also a full OS. 

    In fact, OLED or LCD, it doesn't matter. The display technology itself wasn't the point, which you sadly missed, again.


  • Reply 53 of 91
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    avon b7 said:
    Anilu_777 said:
    lkrupp said:
    With the number of Huawei cheerleaders both here and in Europe I wonder what happens when it’s proven without a doubt that Huawei tech is used for espionage by the CCP? Think about it and use common sense. For a brutal, totalitarian dictatorship the temptation is simply too irresistible to ignore, especially when there will be no repercussions when it is proven. 
    The problem is (and I’m agreeing with you) that by the time Huawei has managed to convince enough governments to allow it to build and sell infrastructure it’s too costly and too late to pull it out. We have to be prudent and have foresight to prevent it. 

    And Apple will need to shift more production to Vietnam and other places to make sure it’s not affected by the CCP policies as well as American ones. It seems Apple is caught in the middle - seen as American even though its contract with Foxconn creates thousands of jobs for Chinese workers, and seen as Chinese by American policy makers for that same reason. 
    Apple also wants to sell in China. What good is moving production if you lose access to one of your biggest markets?

    If Huawei phones can't be distributed fairly in the U.S. why can't China do exactly the same with iPhones?

    Just two years ago AT&T was fired up and ready to give Huawei it first major carrier distribution deal on U.S soil. Then it was pressured out of the deal by government.

    As for Boeing, if things weren't already bad enough (the MAX fiasco), China just cancelled orders for nearly 30 MAX aircraft and the prospect of losing all Boeing orders from China (trillions of dollar's worth over the coming decades) would destroy the commercial aviation business in the U.S. Of course Airbus is salivating right now having had a special delegation working with China for over a year already.

    Let's not forget that trillions of dollars (euros!) going to Airbus would not come 'free' . Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.



    You broach a broader point:
    As Trump tries to bully not just China but most of world to cater to his whims we should expect to see them increasingly forming protective and supportive networks that do not include a now highly unreliable and untrustworthy U.S.

    So far, the shift of loyalties has been subdued and mostly under the table.   But, continued attacks by the U.S. will undoubtedly change that.

    In the case of Huawei:  European countries have begged for evidence why they should abandon the manufacturer who best serves their needs in favor of American political gamesmanship.  As a result, most have put minimal constraints on the company without embracing American hegemony.  Trump needs to realize that not everybody works for him.

    Another area we can expect to see revolt is against American financial systems:   not just the banking systems that we are now exploiting to pressure other countries like Iran and Venezuala, but also how the U.S. dollar has been the defacto currency for the past 50 years.   The weakness in the American systems exposed by the virus along with push back against Trump's bullying could (and likely will) tip that into the world walking away from U.S. financial hegemony -- which is actually our last remaining stronghold.   If that happens you will see the U.S. collapse like a deflated balloon.

    As a dog handler at a local shelter I was taught:  "The Alpha dog is not the strongest.   It is the one that makes the other dogs feel most secure".  
    Trump needs to learn that lesson before he takes us down.
    avon b7
  • Reply 54 of 91
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Beats said:

    avon b7 said:
    Anilu_777 said:
    lkrupp said:
    With the number of Huawei cheerleaders both here and in Europe I wonder what happens when it’s proven without a doubt that Huawei tech is used for espionage by the CCP? Think about it and use common sense. For a brutal, totalitarian dictatorship the temptation is simply too irresistible to ignore, especially when there will be no repercussions when it is proven. 
    The problem is (and I’m agreeing with you) that by the time Huawei has managed to convince enough governments to allow it to build and sell infrastructure it’s too costly and too late to pull it out. We have to be prudent and have foresight to prevent it. 

    And Apple will need to shift more production to Vietnam and other places to make sure it’s not affected by the CCP policies as well as American ones. It seems Apple is caught in the middle - seen as American even though its contract with Foxconn creates thousands of jobs for Chinese workers, and seen as Chinese by American policy makers for that same reason. 
    Apple also wants to sell in China. What good is moving production if you lose access to one of your biggest markets?

    If Huawei phones can't be distributed fairly in the U.S. why can't China do exactly the same with iPhones?

    Just two years ago AT&T was fired up and ready to give Huawei it first major carrier distribution deal on U.S soil. Then it was pressured out of the deal by government.

    As for Boeing, if things weren't already bad enough (the MAX fiasco), China just cancelled orders for nearly 30 MAX aircraft and the prospect of losing all Boeing orders from China (trillions of dollar's worth over the coming decades) would destroy the commercial aviation business in the U.S. Of course Airbus is salivating right now having had a special delegation working with China for over a year already.

    Let's not forget that trillions of dollars (euros!) going to Airbus would not come 'free' . Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.



    Apple has NOTHING to do with this crap. Of course iKnockoff cheerleaders get excited of the possibility of Apple losing orders to cheap knockoffs. The problem with China is a lot of people are waking up to their lying, cheating, stealing culture. The Coronavirus has really allowed China to show it's true colors and people are taking note.

    Actually you are right:   Apple has no more to do with Trump's political maneuvering than Huawei does.   But both are being pulled down into his whirlpool of lies, corruption and political maneuvering.

    And, the world is waking up to the fact that the " lying, cheating, stealing culture" is the U.S. 
    China is not just pushing back financially it is beginning, for the first time, to call Bull to Trump's Bull.

  • Reply 55 of 91
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    The biggest issues was that people forget how Huawei got in trouble with the US government in the first place:

    1, Huawei has this win at any cost, including steel and copy any IP without paying a license fee.
    2, Selling to Iran.  When caught, form a paper company in Hong Kong and continue to sell to Iran
    3, For years CCP gave Huawei preferential banking terms and protected its market position from foreign competition.

    Say what you will on Trump, he's the only president that stands up to CCP.

    Unfortunately for Trump most of the world does not get their information from FauxNews.
  • Reply 56 of 91
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Thinking about this:   At first glance it makes no sense that China would hurt themselves by going after American companies that they depend on.
    But, there is a whole other aspect to this:

    --  China knows that Trump knows that his attacks on Huawei have nothing to do with national security and everything to do with his attempts to hold China back from becoming a world leader both economically and technically.
    --  With his responses to the Corona virus Trump revealed that he cares only about the stock market because that is crucial to his reelection -- which is his one and only priority.
    --  So, by threatening U.S. companies China is threatening the U.S. Stock market and therefor Trump and the re-election he so desperately craves.

    China has always avoided confrontation just as the U.S. did through out the first half of 20th century when it was growing into a world industrial power just as China is today.   But, like the U.S. even back then, while it avoids conflict it isn't afraid to fight.

    And, by now, they have Trump & his minions figured out. 
    Trump knows that too -- or should figure it out.  Hopefully he realizes that Xi will take him out at the knees if he persists...

    But, Trump has an ace up his sleeve:   He will accuse China of interfering in the U.S. election -- which will rally his base and take the heat off of the real enemy:  Russia.
  • Reply 57 of 91
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,442member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    avon b7 said:
    red oak said:
    avon b7 said:
    red oak said:
    Hey, how is that new Huawei operating system doing?  That is right - it’s a total zero 

    Wait for the US to pull all Android inc “open source” out of China.  Then the real fun will begin 

    China does not realize the hole its dug for itself.  Who in their right mind will ever build another factory there? 




    HarmonyOS 1.0 shipped last year on TVs. The kernel was on Huawei watches last year too. It is also running on some routers.

    HarmonyOS 2.0 was just released - on schedule. 

    It will interface with the Huawei Hi-Car module due to ship on 118 car models starting this June. 

    Parts of it are also tucked away in EMUI. 

    If rumours are your thing:

    https://www.gizchina.com/2020/05/02/huawei-to-replace-windows-10-with-harmonyos-2-0-in-its-pcs/

    The U.S cannot pull the 'Open Source' out of China (at least realistically). Huawei is an international company with non-Chinese companies all over the place. 

    For example, my data (and everyone else's in the EU) is managed by Aspiegel. An Irish company (owned by Huawei). 

    FWIW, In theory at least, HarmonyOS itself should go fully Open Source by August this year. 


    Of course Android open source can be pulled from Chinese mfg.   At best, it will be forked and China will be on its own having to learn to develop and support a large scale OS which it has never done before.   The market for that Chinese OS outside of China would be about "0".    Do you really think India would ever allow it? 

    And, how is the Huawei app ecosystem coming along?      How are they doing replicating all the Google apps and services that come with 'standard' Android?    Why have they not brought this OS to their cellphones? 


    I think you are confused or mixing things up. 

    It won't be China that has to learn to develop a large scale OS. It would be Huawei

    However, they are already doing that and HarmonyOS would simply mean baking the whole cake.

    As for why HarmonyOS isn't on cellphones, they have made many comments on the subject but trying to cover all the bases. The official line is that they would prefer to continue their work with Android and that's what Google says too. Reading between the lines, I think it's clear that it is coming. Some rumours even point to this autumn. 

    I think you are seriously underestimating the complexity of EMUI, how it ties in with Android today and the extras it adds to the system. For example, when Huawei released the NPU, it developed its own runtime while also supporting the stock Android runtime. Beyond that support and looking in the other direction to huge AI compute platforms on the Ascend line of processors for example, they introduced the DaVinci architecture and Mindspore. Ascend scales down from huge AI clusters (Ascend 910 on Atlas 900) right down through everything below it, passing through phones and stopping at Ascend Nano for earbuds and the like.

    The App ecosystem is coming along very nicely. Incredible what they have done in less than 12 months. They actually claim that HMS is more secure than GMS. They have signed TomTom, Here and (as you mentioned India) MapMyIndia, to cover the loss of Google Maps. In the process they have given a huge boost to Google Maps competitors. 

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/04/26/huawei-surprises-millions-of-users-with-stunning-google-alternative/#89003a655b06

    Huawei AppGallery takes less of a cut from developers than Apple or Google stores.

    The Huawei Assistant will break out of China to cover the loss of Google Assistant. 

    Of course Google lobbied hard to be able to do business with Huawei and applied for a licence. It stands to lose billions in revenue as a result of not being able to do business with Huawei and see the market further divided. They had plans to release an audio device with Huawei (Co-developed) which had to be shelved. 

    App Gallery is already the third largest App Store in the world.

    It is not a 100% replacement for GMS just yet, but it is getting there. 

    And, before you ask, the hardware ecosystem, it's not too shabby either:



    I'm not sure what relevance all this has to the thread. You'd do better opening your own thread if you want to take this line further. 



    My goodness those things in the video are obvious knockoffs. I Bert their OS will be based off of Apple's software (forked android with touch gestures).  

    Well, if they make HarmonyOS Open Source this year you will be able to see for yourself. 

    As it is, we know the approach is quite different to Apple’s. Apple has iOS, Watch OS, iPad OS, macOS etc. Huawei plans for one OS and virtualised hardware. That is, the best hardware for a task can be used depending on what is available for you choose from.

    I don't remember ever having seen an OLED TV from Apple running proprietary chipsets. 




    https://www.apple.com/pro-display-xdr/

    https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21161487/apple-mac-pro-display-xdr-review-6k-lcd-screen-price-features

    "I’m telling you all of this so that I can put Apple’s riff on local dimming into context. It’s still local dimming, but Apple says it’s using special blue LEDs in 576 zones — one LED per zone — behind a set of custom lenses and layers that even out colors and brightness. The whole thing is run by a custom Apple-designed timing controller that runs the backlight at 10 times the refresh rate of the display itself, which should reduce smearing. Using certain industry-standard VESA test patterns, Apple says the Pro Display XDR can hit a contrast ratio of a million-to-one, which is right up there with OLED.

    When I first saw the Pro Display XDR, I was incredibly impressed by how it looked. The black levels in high-contrast scenes with a lot of black are there. The resolution is undeniable, especially with 4K video and photography. And it is incredibly bright in that default mode that can hit 1,600 nits. There’s not a lot out there like it. As we were working on our review video and having people gather around the display to watch different edits, it always attracted a crowd. It’s just nice to look at."


    But, but, not OLED.

    Sony X300 OLED is $34K, so the XDR has some issues with light falloff at that sides, but is 5 times cheaper.

    You are talking about a monitor and a controller.

    I was talking about an OLED TV and a chipset (a full SoC). Also a full OS. 

    In fact, OLED or LCD, it doesn't matter. The display technology itself wasn't the point, which you sadly missed, again.


    Who cares; what you describe isn't difficult to do. Remember WebTV from the mid to late nineties? Running on an SOC still wouldn't be a great experience.

    https://www.mediatek.com/news-events/press-releases/mediateks-world-leading-8k-dtv-soc-in-volume

    Do you not think that Apple could do that if they produced a television, though of course, why would Apple ship a television with a "full OS", as if that means anything. Hell, the AppleTV is just an SOC with a few added components. 

    https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Apple+TV+4K+Teardown/97511

    Let me know when Huawei ships a mobile phone with Harmony OS that is competitive with Android OS or iOS, then you can brag. Heck, you want to buy it, just to prove your loyalty to Huawei.
    edited May 2020
  • Reply 58 of 91
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,909member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    avon b7 said:
    red oak said:
    avon b7 said:
    red oak said:
    Hey, how is that new Huawei operating system doing?  That is right - it’s a total zero 

    Wait for the US to pull all Android inc “open source” out of China.  Then the real fun will begin 

    China does not realize the hole its dug for itself.  Who in their right mind will ever build another factory there? 




    HarmonyOS 1.0 shipped last year on TVs. The kernel was on Huawei watches last year too. It is also running on some routers.

    HarmonyOS 2.0 was just released - on schedule. 

    It will interface with the Huawei Hi-Car module due to ship on 118 car models starting this June. 

    Parts of it are also tucked away in EMUI. 

    If rumours are your thing:

    https://www.gizchina.com/2020/05/02/huawei-to-replace-windows-10-with-harmonyos-2-0-in-its-pcs/

    The U.S cannot pull the 'Open Source' out of China (at least realistically). Huawei is an international company with non-Chinese companies all over the place. 

    For example, my data (and everyone else's in the EU) is managed by Aspiegel. An Irish company (owned by Huawei). 

    FWIW, In theory at least, HarmonyOS itself should go fully Open Source by August this year. 


    Of course Android open source can be pulled from Chinese mfg.   At best, it will be forked and China will be on its own having to learn to develop and support a large scale OS which it has never done before.   The market for that Chinese OS outside of China would be about "0".    Do you really think India would ever allow it? 

    And, how is the Huawei app ecosystem coming along?      How are they doing replicating all the Google apps and services that come with 'standard' Android?    Why have they not brought this OS to their cellphones? 


    I think you are confused or mixing things up. 

    It won't be China that has to learn to develop a large scale OS. It would be Huawei

    However, they are already doing that and HarmonyOS would simply mean baking the whole cake.

    As for why HarmonyOS isn't on cellphones, they have made many comments on the subject but trying to cover all the bases. The official line is that they would prefer to continue their work with Android and that's what Google says too. Reading between the lines, I think it's clear that it is coming. Some rumours even point to this autumn. 

    I think you are seriously underestimating the complexity of EMUI, how it ties in with Android today and the extras it adds to the system. For example, when Huawei released the NPU, it developed its own runtime while also supporting the stock Android runtime. Beyond that support and looking in the other direction to huge AI compute platforms on the Ascend line of processors for example, they introduced the DaVinci architecture and Mindspore. Ascend scales down from huge AI clusters (Ascend 910 on Atlas 900) right down through everything below it, passing through phones and stopping at Ascend Nano for earbuds and the like.

    The App ecosystem is coming along very nicely. Incredible what they have done in less than 12 months. They actually claim that HMS is more secure than GMS. They have signed TomTom, Here and (as you mentioned India) MapMyIndia, to cover the loss of Google Maps. In the process they have given a huge boost to Google Maps competitors. 

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/04/26/huawei-surprises-millions-of-users-with-stunning-google-alternative/#89003a655b06

    Huawei AppGallery takes less of a cut from developers than Apple or Google stores.

    The Huawei Assistant will break out of China to cover the loss of Google Assistant. 

    Of course Google lobbied hard to be able to do business with Huawei and applied for a licence. It stands to lose billions in revenue as a result of not being able to do business with Huawei and see the market further divided. They had plans to release an audio device with Huawei (Co-developed) which had to be shelved. 

    App Gallery is already the third largest App Store in the world.

    It is not a 100% replacement for GMS just yet, but it is getting there. 

    And, before you ask, the hardware ecosystem, it's not too shabby either:



    I'm not sure what relevance all this has to the thread. You'd do better opening your own thread if you want to take this line further. 



    My goodness those things in the video are obvious knockoffs. I Bert their OS will be based off of Apple's software (forked android with touch gestures).  

    Well, if they make HarmonyOS Open Source this year you will be able to see for yourself. 

    As it is, we know the approach is quite different to Apple’s. Apple has iOS, Watch OS, iPad OS, macOS etc. Huawei plans for one OS and virtualised hardware. That is, the best hardware for a task can be used depending on what is available for you choose from.

    I don't remember ever having seen an OLED TV from Apple running proprietary chipsets. 




    https://www.apple.com/pro-display-xdr/

    https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21161487/apple-mac-pro-display-xdr-review-6k-lcd-screen-price-features

    "I’m telling you all of this so that I can put Apple’s riff on local dimming into context. It’s still local dimming, but Apple says it’s using special blue LEDs in 576 zones — one LED per zone — behind a set of custom lenses and layers that even out colors and brightness. The whole thing is run by a custom Apple-designed timing controller that runs the backlight at 10 times the refresh rate of the display itself, which should reduce smearing. Using certain industry-standard VESA test patterns, Apple says the Pro Display XDR can hit a contrast ratio of a million-to-one, which is right up there with OLED.

    When I first saw the Pro Display XDR, I was incredibly impressed by how it looked. The black levels in high-contrast scenes with a lot of black are there. The resolution is undeniable, especially with 4K video and photography. And it is incredibly bright in that default mode that can hit 1,600 nits. There’s not a lot out there like it. As we were working on our review video and having people gather around the display to watch different edits, it always attracted a crowd. It’s just nice to look at."


    But, but, not OLED.

    Sony X300 OLED is $34K, so the XDR has some issues with light falloff at that sides, but is 5 times cheaper.

    You are talking about a monitor and a controller.

    I was talking about an OLED TV and a chipset (a full SoC). Also a full OS. 

    In fact, OLED or LCD, it doesn't matter. The display technology itself wasn't the point, which you sadly missed, again.


    Who cares; what you describe isn't difficult to do. Remember WebTV from the mid to late nineties? Running on an SOC still wouldn't be a great experience.

    https://www.mediatek.com/news-events/press-releases/mediateks-world-leading-8k-dtv-soc-in-volume

    Do you not think that Apple could do that if they produced a television, though of course, why would Apple ship a television with a "full OS", as if that means anything. Hell, the AppleTV is just an SOC with a few added components. 

    https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Apple+TV+4K+Teardown/97511

    Let me know when Huawei ships a mobile phone with Harmony OS that is competitive with Android OS or iOS, then you can brag. Heck, you want to buy it, just to prove your loyalty to Huawei.
    You still miss the point (which was simple enough) . Let me spell it out for you:

    How could Huawei, ehem, 'knock off' a product Apple doesn't even have?

    Apple TV has nothing to do with something like an X65. No cameras, no display, no speakers etc. It is not the whole widget. It is a box that relies on being connected to a display and speakers. 

    It is NOT about if Apple could pull it off. Literally anyone could pull it off. The point was that Apple simply doesn't have such a product. See second paragraph of this post. 
  • Reply 59 of 91
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,442member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    avon b7 said:
    red oak said:
    avon b7 said:
    red oak said:
    Hey, how is that new Huawei operating system doing?  That is right - it’s a total zero 

    Wait for the US to pull all Android inc “open source” out of China.  Then the real fun will begin 

    China does not realize the hole its dug for itself.  Who in their right mind will ever build another factory there? 




    HarmonyOS 1.0 shipped last year on TVs. The kernel was on Huawei watches last year too. It is also running on some routers.

    HarmonyOS 2.0 was just released - on schedule. 

    It will interface with the Huawei Hi-Car module due to ship on 118 car models starting this June. 

    Parts of it are also tucked away in EMUI. 

    If rumours are your thing:

    https://www.gizchina.com/2020/05/02/huawei-to-replace-windows-10-with-harmonyos-2-0-in-its-pcs/

    The U.S cannot pull the 'Open Source' out of China (at least realistically). Huawei is an international company with non-Chinese companies all over the place. 

    For example, my data (and everyone else's in the EU) is managed by Aspiegel. An Irish company (owned by Huawei). 

    FWIW, In theory at least, HarmonyOS itself should go fully Open Source by August this year. 


    Of course Android open source can be pulled from Chinese mfg.   At best, it will be forked and China will be on its own having to learn to develop and support a large scale OS which it has never done before.   The market for that Chinese OS outside of China would be about "0".    Do you really think India would ever allow it? 

    And, how is the Huawei app ecosystem coming along?      How are they doing replicating all the Google apps and services that come with 'standard' Android?    Why have they not brought this OS to their cellphones? 


    I think you are confused or mixing things up. 

    It won't be China that has to learn to develop a large scale OS. It would be Huawei

    However, they are already doing that and HarmonyOS would simply mean baking the whole cake.

    As for why HarmonyOS isn't on cellphones, they have made many comments on the subject but trying to cover all the bases. The official line is that they would prefer to continue their work with Android and that's what Google says too. Reading between the lines, I think it's clear that it is coming. Some rumours even point to this autumn. 

    I think you are seriously underestimating the complexity of EMUI, how it ties in with Android today and the extras it adds to the system. For example, when Huawei released the NPU, it developed its own runtime while also supporting the stock Android runtime. Beyond that support and looking in the other direction to huge AI compute platforms on the Ascend line of processors for example, they introduced the DaVinci architecture and Mindspore. Ascend scales down from huge AI clusters (Ascend 910 on Atlas 900) right down through everything below it, passing through phones and stopping at Ascend Nano for earbuds and the like.

    The App ecosystem is coming along very nicely. Incredible what they have done in less than 12 months. They actually claim that HMS is more secure than GMS. They have signed TomTom, Here and (as you mentioned India) MapMyIndia, to cover the loss of Google Maps. In the process they have given a huge boost to Google Maps competitors. 

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/04/26/huawei-surprises-millions-of-users-with-stunning-google-alternative/#89003a655b06

    Huawei AppGallery takes less of a cut from developers than Apple or Google stores.

    The Huawei Assistant will break out of China to cover the loss of Google Assistant. 

    Of course Google lobbied hard to be able to do business with Huawei and applied for a licence. It stands to lose billions in revenue as a result of not being able to do business with Huawei and see the market further divided. They had plans to release an audio device with Huawei (Co-developed) which had to be shelved. 

    App Gallery is already the third largest App Store in the world.

    It is not a 100% replacement for GMS just yet, but it is getting there. 

    And, before you ask, the hardware ecosystem, it's not too shabby either:



    I'm not sure what relevance all this has to the thread. You'd do better opening your own thread if you want to take this line further. 



    My goodness those things in the video are obvious knockoffs. I Bert their OS will be based off of Apple's software (forked android with touch gestures).  

    Well, if they make HarmonyOS Open Source this year you will be able to see for yourself. 

    As it is, we know the approach is quite different to Apple’s. Apple has iOS, Watch OS, iPad OS, macOS etc. Huawei plans for one OS and virtualised hardware. That is, the best hardware for a task can be used depending on what is available for you choose from.

    I don't remember ever having seen an OLED TV from Apple running proprietary chipsets. 




    https://www.apple.com/pro-display-xdr/

    https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21161487/apple-mac-pro-display-xdr-review-6k-lcd-screen-price-features

    "I’m telling you all of this so that I can put Apple’s riff on local dimming into context. It’s still local dimming, but Apple says it’s using special blue LEDs in 576 zones — one LED per zone — behind a set of custom lenses and layers that even out colors and brightness. The whole thing is run by a custom Apple-designed timing controller that runs the backlight at 10 times the refresh rate of the display itself, which should reduce smearing. Using certain industry-standard VESA test patterns, Apple says the Pro Display XDR can hit a contrast ratio of a million-to-one, which is right up there with OLED.

    When I first saw the Pro Display XDR, I was incredibly impressed by how it looked. The black levels in high-contrast scenes with a lot of black are there. The resolution is undeniable, especially with 4K video and photography. And it is incredibly bright in that default mode that can hit 1,600 nits. There’s not a lot out there like it. As we were working on our review video and having people gather around the display to watch different edits, it always attracted a crowd. It’s just nice to look at."


    But, but, not OLED.

    Sony X300 OLED is $34K, so the XDR has some issues with light falloff at that sides, but is 5 times cheaper.

    You are talking about a monitor and a controller.

    I was talking about an OLED TV and a chipset (a full SoC). Also a full OS. 

    In fact, OLED or LCD, it doesn't matter. The display technology itself wasn't the point, which you sadly missed, again.


    Who cares; what you describe isn't difficult to do. Remember WebTV from the mid to late nineties? Running on an SOC still wouldn't be a great experience.

    https://www.mediatek.com/news-events/press-releases/mediateks-world-leading-8k-dtv-soc-in-volume

    Do you not think that Apple could do that if they produced a television, though of course, why would Apple ship a television with a "full OS", as if that means anything. Hell, the AppleTV is just an SOC with a few added components. 

    https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Apple+TV+4K+Teardown/97511

    Let me know when Huawei ships a mobile phone with Harmony OS that is competitive with Android OS or iOS, then you can brag. Heck, you want to buy it, just to prove your loyalty to Huawei.
    You still miss the point (which was simple enough) . Let me spell it out for you:

    How could Huawei, ehem, 'knock off' a product Apple doesn't even have?

    Apple TV has nothing to do with something like an X65. No cameras, no display, no speakers etc. It is not the whole widget. It is a box that relies on being connected to a display and speakers. 

    It is NOT about if Apple could pull it off. Literally anyone could pull it off. The point was that Apple simply doesn't have such a product. See second paragraph of this post. 
    I never claimed it was a knockoff, so stop the fucking gaslighting. Apple doesn't have that product because they don't sell low margin televisions. 

    More to the point, they have finely tuned variants of their operating system, not a one size fits all Harmony 2.0 OS they seem to be pushing.

    For the record, Apple has already built devices that have cameras, displays, speakers, et al; they call them iMac's, Mac Books, or Mac Book Pro's and again, they have a fully functional desktop OS for those, not a home theater OS that is being repurposed for mobile.
    edited May 2020
  • Reply 60 of 91
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,909member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Beats said:
    avon b7 said:
    red oak said:
    avon b7 said:
    red oak said:
    Hey, how is that new Huawei operating system doing?  That is right - it’s a total zero 

    Wait for the US to pull all Android inc “open source” out of China.  Then the real fun will begin 

    China does not realize the hole its dug for itself.  Who in their right mind will ever build another factory there? 




    HarmonyOS 1.0 shipped last year on TVs. The kernel was on Huawei watches last year too. It is also running on some routers.

    HarmonyOS 2.0 was just released - on schedule. 

    It will interface with the Huawei Hi-Car module due to ship on 118 car models starting this June. 

    Parts of it are also tucked away in EMUI. 

    If rumours are your thing:

    https://www.gizchina.com/2020/05/02/huawei-to-replace-windows-10-with-harmonyos-2-0-in-its-pcs/

    The U.S cannot pull the 'Open Source' out of China (at least realistically). Huawei is an international company with non-Chinese companies all over the place. 

    For example, my data (and everyone else's in the EU) is managed by Aspiegel. An Irish company (owned by Huawei). 

    FWIW, In theory at least, HarmonyOS itself should go fully Open Source by August this year. 


    Of course Android open source can be pulled from Chinese mfg.   At best, it will be forked and China will be on its own having to learn to develop and support a large scale OS which it has never done before.   The market for that Chinese OS outside of China would be about "0".    Do you really think India would ever allow it? 

    And, how is the Huawei app ecosystem coming along?      How are they doing replicating all the Google apps and services that come with 'standard' Android?    Why have they not brought this OS to their cellphones? 


    I think you are confused or mixing things up. 

    It won't be China that has to learn to develop a large scale OS. It would be Huawei

    However, they are already doing that and HarmonyOS would simply mean baking the whole cake.

    As for why HarmonyOS isn't on cellphones, they have made many comments on the subject but trying to cover all the bases. The official line is that they would prefer to continue their work with Android and that's what Google says too. Reading between the lines, I think it's clear that it is coming. Some rumours even point to this autumn. 

    I think you are seriously underestimating the complexity of EMUI, how it ties in with Android today and the extras it adds to the system. For example, when Huawei released the NPU, it developed its own runtime while also supporting the stock Android runtime. Beyond that support and looking in the other direction to huge AI compute platforms on the Ascend line of processors for example, they introduced the DaVinci architecture and Mindspore. Ascend scales down from huge AI clusters (Ascend 910 on Atlas 900) right down through everything below it, passing through phones and stopping at Ascend Nano for earbuds and the like.

    The App ecosystem is coming along very nicely. Incredible what they have done in less than 12 months. They actually claim that HMS is more secure than GMS. They have signed TomTom, Here and (as you mentioned India) MapMyIndia, to cover the loss of Google Maps. In the process they have given a huge boost to Google Maps competitors. 

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/04/26/huawei-surprises-millions-of-users-with-stunning-google-alternative/#89003a655b06

    Huawei AppGallery takes less of a cut from developers than Apple or Google stores.

    The Huawei Assistant will break out of China to cover the loss of Google Assistant. 

    Of course Google lobbied hard to be able to do business with Huawei and applied for a licence. It stands to lose billions in revenue as a result of not being able to do business with Huawei and see the market further divided. They had plans to release an audio device with Huawei (Co-developed) which had to be shelved. 

    App Gallery is already the third largest App Store in the world.

    It is not a 100% replacement for GMS just yet, but it is getting there. 

    And, before you ask, the hardware ecosystem, it's not too shabby either:



    I'm not sure what relevance all this has to the thread. You'd do better opening your own thread if you want to take this line further. 



    My goodness those things in the video are obvious knockoffs. I Bert their OS will be based off of Apple's software (forked android with touch gestures).  

    Well, if they make HarmonyOS Open Source this year you will be able to see for yourself. 

    As it is, we know the approach is quite different to Apple’s. Apple has iOS, Watch OS, iPad OS, macOS etc. Huawei plans for one OS and virtualised hardware. That is, the best hardware for a task can be used depending on what is available for you choose from.

    I don't remember ever having seen an OLED TV from Apple running proprietary chipsets. 




    https://www.apple.com/pro-display-xdr/

    https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21161487/apple-mac-pro-display-xdr-review-6k-lcd-screen-price-features

    "I’m telling you all of this so that I can put Apple’s riff on local dimming into context. It’s still local dimming, but Apple says it’s using special blue LEDs in 576 zones — one LED per zone — behind a set of custom lenses and layers that even out colors and brightness. The whole thing is run by a custom Apple-designed timing controller that runs the backlight at 10 times the refresh rate of the display itself, which should reduce smearing. Using certain industry-standard VESA test patterns, Apple says the Pro Display XDR can hit a contrast ratio of a million-to-one, which is right up there with OLED.

    When I first saw the Pro Display XDR, I was incredibly impressed by how it looked. The black levels in high-contrast scenes with a lot of black are there. The resolution is undeniable, especially with 4K video and photography. And it is incredibly bright in that default mode that can hit 1,600 nits. There’s not a lot out there like it. As we were working on our review video and having people gather around the display to watch different edits, it always attracted a crowd. It’s just nice to look at."


    But, but, not OLED.

    Sony X300 OLED is $34K, so the XDR has some issues with light falloff at that sides, but is 5 times cheaper.

    You are talking about a monitor and a controller.

    I was talking about an OLED TV and a chipset (a full SoC). Also a full OS. 

    In fact, OLED or LCD, it doesn't matter. The display technology itself wasn't the point, which you sadly missed, again.


    Who cares; what you describe isn't difficult to do. Remember WebTV from the mid to late nineties? Running on an SOC still wouldn't be a great experience.

    https://www.mediatek.com/news-events/press-releases/mediateks-world-leading-8k-dtv-soc-in-volume

    Do you not think that Apple could do that if they produced a television, though of course, why would Apple ship a television with a "full OS", as if that means anything. Hell, the AppleTV is just an SOC with a few added components. 

    https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Apple+TV+4K+Teardown/97511

    Let me know when Huawei ships a mobile phone with Harmony OS that is competitive with Android OS or iOS, then you can brag. Heck, you want to buy it, just to prove your loyalty to Huawei.
    You still miss the point (which was simple enough) . Let me spell it out for you:

    How could Huawei, ehem, 'knock off' a product Apple doesn't even have?

    Apple TV has nothing to do with something like an X65. No cameras, no display, no speakers etc. It is not the whole widget. It is a box that relies on being connected to a display and speakers. 

    It is NOT about if Apple could pull it off. Literally anyone could pull it off. The point was that Apple simply doesn't have such a product. See second paragraph of this post. 
    I never claimed it was a knockoff, so stop the fucking gaslighting. Apple doesn't have that product because they don't sell low margin televisions. 

    More to the point, they have finely tuned variants of their operating system, not a one size fits all Harmony 2.0 OS they seem to be pushing.

    For the record, Apple has already built devices that have cameras, displays, speakers, et al; they call them iMac's, Mac Books, or Mac Book Pro's and again, they have a fully functional desktop OS for those, not a home theater OS that is being repurposed for mobile.
    Nobody said you claimed anything! 

    Re-read the posts. 

    You jumped on my reply to another person who did make the claim. 

    Have you forgotten that? Or did you not bother to read in the context of my reply and simply wade in when you saw it? 

    For the record, yes everybody knows Apple has included speakers, displays and cameras on devices. 

    For the record, that is irrelevant. 




    edited May 2020 GeorgeBMac
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