China ready to retaliate against Apple after U.S. moves to ban chip shipments to Huawei

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in General Discussion
China is readying financial countermeasures against U.S. companies like Apple and Qualcomm after the US government executed the process to block Huawei's global semiconductor supply.

China is ready to place U.S. companies on an
China is ready to place U.S. companies on an "unreliable entity list" after the U.S. government moved to block chip shipments to Huawei.


On Friday, the Trump administration said it would amend an export rule to block shipments of semiconductors that are the "direct product of certain U.S. software and technology," Reuters reported.

In response, the Chinese government reacted swiftly. It's preparing a series of countermeasures, including putting U.S.-based companies on an "unreliable entity list," imposing restrictions on companies like Apple, and launching investigations, the Global Times reported.

"China will take forceful countermeasures to protect its own legitimate rights," a source told the Global Times, a subsidiary newspaper of China's Communist Party.

Beijing appears to be specifically targeting U.S. companies that are highly dependent on the Chinese market, including Apple, Qualcomm, Cisco and Boeing.

Huawei is at the center of a broad struggle for technological dominance between the U.S. and China.

In May 2019, the U.S. government imposed a ban on Huawei that barred it from acquiring American technology. It also banned U.S. telecom firms from using Huawei-produced equipment.

That ban inspired a "Boycott Apple" movement in China, with some companies in the country threatening to fire employees who used the company's products instead of Chinese ones.

Despite the ban, Huawei has continued to use U.S. software and technology, the Commerce Department said, hence Friday's move to amend an export rule.

The U.S. is also attempting to convince its allies not to use Huawei infrastructure in the global rollout of 5G, citing concerns that the Chinese company's products could be used for espionage. Huawei denies those claims.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 91
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    I guess we’re going to find out who has the biggest set of balls. My guess? The U.S. will cave.
    ralphieviclauyyctoysandmejony0Rayz2016GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 2 of 91
    draenardraenar Posts: 14member
    The big question here will be what positions will the presidential candidates take.

    If this becomes a public issue, the US public will stand up for the US, and the country will not cave.

    If left to backroom politics, the story may be very different.
    williamlondontoysandmecornchipcat52
  • Reply 3 of 91
    Are you tired of winning yet?
    kurai_kagejony0prismaticsRayz2016wonkothesaneGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 4 of 91
    Dan_DilgerDan_Dilger Posts: 1,584member
    "That ban inspired a "Boycott Apple" movement in China, with some companies in the country threatening to fire employees who used the company's products instead of Chinese ones."

    "Some companies" here is Huawei, a direct competitor to Apple. It's not surprising that Huawei doesn't want its employees using iPhones in public or on Twitter, etc, any more than Microsoft discouraged employees from brandishing Macs and iPods. And while Huawei is run by Communist Party members, it is not China. The suggestion of "boycotts" against Apple were not real or at least not material enough to notice. China is boycotting Samsung, but that is more from a general hatred of Korea in general. China doesn't have that kind of prejudice against Americans.

    Sure the State is going to order Huaweis and can push back against Boeing and do nothing to help Qualcomm collect its licensing revenue from Chinese firms, but it's not really incentivized to kill the manufacturing of, or domestic sales of, most of the higher-end phones sold globally and across China. The suggestion of "investigating" Apple among "companies that block or shut supply chains, or take discriminatory measures for non-commercial reasons" doesn't seem like it would get very far. 
    spock1234Anilu_777JWSCmacplusplusjony0prismaticsRayz2016watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 91
    KuyangkohKuyangkoh Posts: 838member
    Negotiations tactics, it works all the time.....pay up for licenses, quit cloning, manufactures here locally Like Japanese co. and pay Local taxes.
  • Reply 6 of 91
    georgie01georgie01 Posts: 437member
    Whatever someone thinks of Trump as president, he’s a very successful businessman and knows how to negotiate far better than anyone of us including our favourite government leaders (anyone wanting to bring up some of Trump’s business failures please spare us your ignorance).

    Growth takes sacrifice, sometimes painful, especially in a situation like this where we’re entrenched in problematic ways due to past government leaders not having the business sense or courage to stand up to China’s tactics. Regardless of what you think of Trump’s other policies, we should all be thanking him for having the courage to rock the boat with China.  
    mwhitespock123480s_Apple_GuywilliamlondonBeatscornchipJanNLcat52ArianneFeldry
  • Reply 7 of 91
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,648member
    Once again a sign of the times: Apple (and others) pull out of China!
    spock1234pujones1ben20watto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 91
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 2,865member
    This is likely why Apple has been starting to shift production to India, Vietnam and elsewhere. In a pissing contest between these two everyone else loses. Rock...Hard Place.
    Anilu_777toysandmewonkothesanewatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 91
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,899member
    We can't say we didn't see this coming.

    There will be pain. 
    toysandme
  • Reply 10 of 91
    XedXed Posts: 2,705member
    georgie01 said:
    Whatever someone thinks of Trump as president, he’s a very successful businessman and knows how to negotiate far better than anyone of us including our favourite government leaders (anyone wanting to bring up some of Trump’s business failures please spare us your ignorance).

    Growth takes sacrifice, sometimes painful, especially in a situation like this where we’re entrenched in problematic ways due to past government leaders not having the business sense or courage to stand up to China’s tactics. Regardless of what you think of Trump’s other policies, we should all be thanking him for having the courage to rock the boat with China.  
    Whatever someone thinks of Trump as president it's insane to think "he’s a very successful businessman and knows how to negotiate."
    edited May 2020 foregoneconclusionCloudTalkinroundaboutnowjdb8167omar moralesAnilu_777tmaythtviclauyyctoysandme
  • Reply 11 of 91
    georgie01 said: Regardless of what you think of Trump’s other policies, we should all be thanking him for having the courage to rock the boat with China.  
    The trade deficit with China is larger than ever. His "strategy" of using failed trade policy from the 1920s (i.e, tariffs) has not so surprisingly failed...again. 
    roundaboutnowjdb8167omar moralestmaythttoysandmeronnjony0kitatitwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 91
    kurai_kagekurai_kage Posts: 107member
    georgie01 said:
    Whatever someone thinks of Trump as president, he’s a very successful businessman and knows how to negotiate far better than anyone of us including our favourite government leaders (anyone wanting to bring up some of Trump’s business failures please spare us your ignorance).

    Growth takes sacrifice, sometimes painful, especially in a situation like this where we’re entrenched in problematic ways due to past government leaders not having the business sense or courage to stand up to China’s tactics. Regardless of what you think of Trump’s other policies, we should all be thanking him for having the courage to rock the boat with China.  
    Tell that to our soybean farmers or any of the many other small and medium businesses that have suffered under his very successful business acumen.  Those negotiation skills are on display for sure.  Even large businesses have not been thanking him for rocking the boat, and now he is going to help out even further by knocking some of our top businesses down a few notches by exercising his negotiation skills further.  Lucky us to have such a great leader... /s
    roundaboutnowjdb8167omar moralestmaythtviclauyyctoysandmeronnjony0muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 13 of 91
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    With the number of Huawei cheerleaders both here and in Europe I wonder what happens when it’s proven without a doubt that Huawei tech is used for espionage by the CCP? Think about it and use common sense. For a brutal, totalitarian dictatorship the temptation is simply too irresistible to ignore, especially when there will be no repercussions when it is proven. 
    tmayviclauyycJanNLcat52watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 91
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 1,076member
    Xed said:
    georgie01 said:
    Whatever someone thinks of Trump as president, he’s a very successful businessman and knows how to negotiate far better than anyone of us including our favourite government leaders (anyone wanting to bring up some of Trump’s business failures please spare us your ignorance).

    Growth takes sacrifice, sometimes painful, especially in a situation like this where we’re entrenched in problematic ways due to past government leaders not having the business sense or courage to stand up to China’s tactics. Regardless of what you think of Trump’s other policies, we should all be thanking him for having the courage to rock the boat with China.  
    Whatever someone thinks of Trump as president it's insane to think "he’s a very successful businessman and knows how to negotiate."
    I’m sure those 4 (and counting) bankruptcies helped him become a better businessman. I guess bankruptcies are ok if you have money to spare...Er...hide it. 
    ralphieroundaboutnowjdb8167CloudTalkintmayviclauyyctoysandmeronnjony0MacPro
  • Reply 15 of 91
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,899member
    georgie01 said:
    Whatever someone thinks of Trump as president, he’s a very successful businessman and knows how to negotiate far better than anyone of us including our favourite government leaders (anyone wanting to bring up some of Trump’s business failures please spare us your ignorance).

    Growth takes sacrifice, sometimes painful, especially in a situation like this where we’re entrenched in problematic ways due to past government leaders not having the business sense or courage to stand up to China’s tactics. Regardless of what you think of Trump’s other policies, we should all be thanking him for having the courage to rock the boat with China.  
    This isn't about trade. 

    This is the singling out of one company with the desire to kill it because it represents a technological threat to U.S 'interests' worldwide.

    If this were about 'trade' , more would have been done against other nations (the U.S trade deficit is with the rest of the world, not just China). 

    As it is, on purely trade terms, putting Huawei and its affiliates on the entity list severely impacted scores of U.S tech interests to the tune of billions. It impacted U.S farming interests which had to be bailed out more than once (also to the tune of billions). Until very recently it was impeding its own national companies from participating on standards boards across the world where Huawei also had seats. There is no worse way to act against your own interests than that. These are meetings where the future of tech is hammered out. 

    As a result China has accelerated its tech advancements (already taking a huge lead with a key economic enabler: deployment of 5G). Huawei has largely excised itself of U.S supply options ($11B going straight to non-US direct competitors) AND accelerated its own technological advances. It was estimated that that action would have a direct impact on jobs at those companies. He has literally shackled U.S tech companies who want to do business with Huawei. Over 130 licence requests have been made to the Department of Commerce. Now his actions may well impact scores of other U.S companies who have no business relation with Huawei. 

    Anyone who has commercial interests that use U.S technology will now be scurrying to find alternatives to have a plan B close to hand, should they find themselves sucked into a similar situation to Huawei. Many already were. The EU declared its own plans to increase its technological independence around the time Trump came to office. That was another hit for U.S interests. 

    Phase 1 may well be dead in the water (it was never that much anyway) after this latest move. 

    More than rocking the boat, he has capsized it IMO. The problem is it is his own boat. More than 'negotiating' he has bullied allies and non-allies. Allies who have basically had enough. Just look at the Iran sanctions debacle but that is geopolitics, not just trade. 

    He said he liked trade wars although he had zero experience with them. He said they were easy to win. 

    We will just have to watch as he demonstrates just how easy this one will prove to win. 

    Meanwhile the evidence to back up the accusations against Huawei still haven't appeared. 

    Huawei was being used as a pawn. 

    Now Apple runs the risk of suffering tit-for-tat measures. 

    Unable to compete (the U.S has no homegrown 5G options) Trump wants to draw a digital iron curtain between East and West. 




    edited May 2020 omar moralesBeatsviclauyyctoysandmeronnjony0prismaticscincymac
  • Reply 16 of 91
    CloudTalkinCloudTalkin Posts: 916member
    georgie01 said:
    Whatever someone thinks of Trump as president, he’s a very successful businessman and knows how to negotiate far better than anyone of us including our favourite government leaders (anyone wanting to bring up some of Trump’s business failures please spare us your ignorance).

    Growth takes sacrifice, sometimes painful, especially in a situation like this where we’re entrenched in problematic ways due to past government leaders not having the business sense or courage to stand up to China’s tactics. Regardless of what you think of Trump’s other policies, we should all be thanking him for having the courage to rock the boat with China.  
    Wait.  Trump is a successful businessman.  Don't mention his business failures.  Got it.  Tee hee.  That's like saying the guys who ran Enron were very successful businessmen, but just don't bring up their failures.  {Derp}  Elizabeth Holmes was a very successful businesswoman, but just don't look at her failure.  

    Okay, okay, okay.  I'll play along.  Since I guess we're only supposed to look at successes instead of a totality of business decisions, what business successes should we be using to evaluate Trumps acumen as a businessman? 


    On topic: Dealing with the Chinese can be hard.  They are willing to make decisions that can, not only hurt their competitor (in this case the US), but adversely affect their citizens because they aren't worried about being voted out of office.  US politicians have to worry if their decisions will negatively affect US citizens because we have the ability to boot them.
    edited May 2020 roundaboutnowgatorguytmayviclauyyctoysandmeronnjony0GeorgeBMacMacPro
  • Reply 17 of 91
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,899member
    lkrupp said:
    With the number of Huawei cheerleaders both here and in Europe I wonder what happens when it’s proven without a doubt that Huawei tech is used for espionage by the CCP? Think about it and use common sense. For a brutal, totalitarian dictatorship the temptation is simply too irresistible to ignore, especially when there will be no repercussions when it is proven. 
    Huawei makes the technology. What users do with it is another story. 

    Just look at what the U.S government has done with gear from companies like Cisco and carriers like AT&T. Or the Crypto scandal. Operation Shot Giant. 

    Just browse some of the Snowden leaks. 

    You don't have to be a 'brutal totalitarian dictatorship' to spy on all and sundry or do far worse things. 

    toysandmeprismaticsmuthuk_vanalingamGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 18 of 91
    longfanglongfang Posts: 493member
    lkrupp said:
    With the number of Huawei cheerleaders both here and in Europe I wonder what happens when it’s proven without a doubt that Huawei tech is used for espionage by the CCP? Think about it and use common sense. For a brutal, totalitarian dictatorship the temptation is simply too irresistible to ignore, especially when there will be no repercussions when it is proven. 
    I’m more likely to believe that the NSA unable to get their special firmware in place pushed for this so it has an easier time spying.
    omar moralesviclauyyctoysandmemuthuk_vanalingamGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 19 of 91
    Anilu_777Anilu_777 Posts: 559member
    lkrupp said:
    With the number of Huawei cheerleaders both here and in Europe I wonder what happens when it’s proven without a doubt that Huawei tech is used for espionage by the CCP? Think about it and use common sense. For a brutal, totalitarian dictatorship the temptation is simply too irresistible to ignore, especially when there will be no repercussions when it is proven. 
    The problem is (and I’m agreeing with you) that by the time Huawei has managed to convince enough governments to allow it to build and sell infrastructure it’s too costly and too late to pull it out. We have to be prudent and have foresight to prevent it. 

    And Apple will need to shift more production to Vietnam and other places to make sure it’s not affected by the CCP policies as well as American ones. It seems Apple is caught in the middle - seen as American even though its contract with Foxconn creates thousands of jobs for Chinese workers, and seen as Chinese by American policy makers for that same reason. 
    tmayBeatswatto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 91
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,899member
    Anilu_777 said:
    lkrupp said:
    With the number of Huawei cheerleaders both here and in Europe I wonder what happens when it’s proven without a doubt that Huawei tech is used for espionage by the CCP? Think about it and use common sense. For a brutal, totalitarian dictatorship the temptation is simply too irresistible to ignore, especially when there will be no repercussions when it is proven. 
    The problem is (and I’m agreeing with you) that by the time Huawei has managed to convince enough governments to allow it to build and sell infrastructure it’s too costly and too late to pull it out. We have to be prudent and have foresight to prevent it. 

    And Apple will need to shift more production to Vietnam and other places to make sure it’s not affected by the CCP policies as well as American ones. It seems Apple is caught in the middle - seen as American even though its contract with Foxconn creates thousands of jobs for Chinese workers, and seen as Chinese by American policy makers for that same reason. 
    Apple also wants to sell in China. What good is moving production if you lose access to one of your biggest markets?

    If Huawei phones can't be distributed fairly in the U.S. why can't China do exactly the same with iPhones?

    Just two years ago AT&T was fired up and ready to give Huawei it first major carrier distribution deal on U.S soil. Then it was pressured out of the deal by government.

    As for Boeing, if things weren't already bad enough (the MAX fiasco), China just cancelled orders for nearly 30 MAX aircraft and the prospect of losing all Boeing orders from China (trillions of dollar's worth over the coming decades) would destroy the commercial aviation business in the U.S. Of course Airbus is salivating right now having had a special delegation working with China for over a year already.

    Let's not forget that trillions of dollars (euros!) going to Airbus would not come 'free' . Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.


    viclauyyctoysandmeronnprismaticsGeorgeBMac
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