Foxconn says trade war means China can no longer be 'the world's factory'

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  • Reply 21 of 108
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    georgie01 said:
    mknelson said:

    That's a weak argument, cherry picking one "socialist" government that's failing. Venezuela's economy is hampered by sanctions and corruption.

    US "socialists" are primarily looking for solutions to health care and poverty reduction like in continental Europe, Sweden, UK, Canada…
    Except that a moderate socialist when it comes to US government leaders isn’t as moderate as it once used to be. Even Biden—who is relatively moderate—already has plans to spend trillions of dollars we don’t have. And do you really have confidence he is strong enough to not bow even more to social and political pressure by more radical socialists? Not to mention the multitrillion dollar coronavirus package by ‘moderate’ socialist thinking in the House—part of which does not even directly address coronavirus relief, yet they won’t back down.

    The issue with many US socialists is that they have become so complacent with being successful as a nation they don’t understand that money isn’t ‘just there’. There has to be incentive to get people to make the money they do. Whether that incentive is greed doesn’t really matter, because these people making tons of money benefit the entire nation. 
    People making tons of money can benefit the nation, or can be part of a rentier class. In modern capitalism it's often the latter. 
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  • Reply 22 of 108
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,327member
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.
    The UK said the same:   They were bowing to Trump's geopolitical pressure at the expense of their own best interests....

    And as to there being "infrastructure anywhere" -- we saw how false that statement is as China quickly returned to full production while India and the U.S. are still struggling to control the virus.
    Russia, Russia, Russia.... get over it dude. 
    razorpitanantksundaramdonjuancat52watto_cobra
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  • Reply 23 of 108
    GeorgeBMacgeorgebmac Posts: 11,421member
    razorpit said:
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.
    The UK said the same:   They were bowing to Trump's geopolitical pressure at the expense of their own best interests....

    And as to there being "infrastructure anywhere" -- we saw how false that statement is as China quickly returned to full production while India and the U.S. are still struggling to control the virus.
    You think this trade war with China is something new? Just because the previous administrations chose to ignore and let them eat our lunch doesn't mean it wasn't happening.  Do you forget how just a few months ago we weren't even able to produce stupid masks and medicine because we were at the mercy of China?

    Look, I get you don't like the Orange Man, that's your choice. I encourage you to go spend a few months over there. Work in manufacturing/sourcing. Attempt to purchase property, start a business, be independent as you are here. Then come back and tell us how it went.

    You don't even have to go over sea's to get the full experience. Try that in Mexico. Tell them you're an American and you are here to purchase some land and start your own company. And for a preview of our future if the socialists get their way, stop down in Venezuela and try to order a nice ribeye in a restaurant.

    And by the way, "the 80's called. They want their foreign policy back."

    Yes, the Trade War with China is ALL, 100% Trump.
    The priors administrations (PLURAL!) didn't ignore it.   It simply didn't exist.

    And you are correct:  I do not like corrupt, lying Conmen like Trump dismantling our democracy for his own gain.
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  • Reply 24 of 108
    GeorgeBMacgeorgebmac Posts: 11,421member
    Foxconn is a Taiwanese company.  I'm surprised an executive there would speak this frankly about their business in the PRC.  He must be confident in what he says, because if China does remain "the factory of the world" Foxconn's access to that factory could be threatened.

    He's just placating the wanna be dictator till he's gone.
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  • Reply 25 of 108
    asdasd said:
    georgie01 said:
    mknelson said:

    That's a weak argument, cherry picking one "socialist" government that's failing. Venezuela's economy is hampered by sanctions and corruption.

    US "socialists" are primarily looking for solutions to health care and poverty reduction like in continental Europe, Sweden, UK, Canada…
    Except that a moderate socialist when it comes to US government leaders isn’t as moderate as it once used to be. Even Biden—who is relatively moderate—already has plans to spend trillions of dollars we don’t have. And do you really have confidence he is strong enough to not bow even more to social and political pressure by more radical socialists? Not to mention the multitrillion dollar coronavirus package by ‘moderate’ socialist thinking in the House—part of which does not even directly address coronavirus relief, yet they won’t back down.

    The issue with many US socialists is that they have become so complacent with being successful as a nation they don’t understand that money isn’t ‘just there’. There has to be incentive to get people to make the money they do. Whether that incentive is greed doesn’t really matter, because these people making tons of money benefit the entire nation. 
    People making tons of money can benefit the nation, or can be part of a rentier class. In modern capitalism it's often the latter. 
    That's the problem; at a certain level more money simply means that more money is out of circulation, and therefor NOT a benefit to the nation (it actually is a huge problem).

    Like, how many more pants can a rich person wear at the same time, as compared with the poor; and exactly how many more haircuts do someone with a billion USD have, as compared with let's say someone with one million?
    asdasdFileMakerFeller
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  • Reply 26 of 108
    asdasd said:
    georgie01 said:
    mknelson said:

    That's a weak argument, cherry picking one "socialist" government that's failing. Venezuela's economy is hampered by sanctions and corruption.

    US "socialists" are primarily looking for solutions to health care and poverty reduction like in continental Europe, Sweden, UK, Canada…
    Except that a moderate socialist when it comes to US government leaders isn’t as moderate as it once used to be. Even Biden—who is relatively moderate—already has plans to spend trillions of dollars we don’t have. And do you really have confidence he is strong enough to not bow even more to social and political pressure by more radical socialists? Not to mention the multitrillion dollar coronavirus package by ‘moderate’ socialist thinking in the House—part of which does not even directly address coronavirus relief, yet they won’t back down.

    The issue with many US socialists is that they have become so complacent with being successful as a nation they don’t understand that money isn’t ‘just there’. There has to be incentive to get people to make the money they do. Whether that incentive is greed doesn’t really matter, because these people making tons of money benefit the entire nation. 
    People making tons of money can benefit the nation, or can be part of a rentier class. In modern capitalism it's often the latter. 
    That's the problem; at a certain level more money simply means that more money is out of circulation, and therefor NOT a benefit to the nation (it actually is a huge problem).

    Like, how many more pants can a rich person wear at the same time, as compared with the poor; and exactly how many more haircuts do someone with a billion USD have, as compared with let's say someone with one million?
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  • Reply 27 of 108
    GeorgeBMacgeorgebmac Posts: 11,421member
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.
    The UK said the same:   They were bowing to Trump's geopolitical pressure at the expense of their own best interests....

    And as to there being "infrastructure anywhere" -- we saw how false that statement is as China quickly returned to full production while India and the U.S. are still struggling to control the virus.

    Russia is a glorified gas station masquerading as a country. Texas has a 5th the population and a much bigger economy. I recommend not listening to hysterical cable news political activists and instead to think for yourself. 

    You're carrying water for the CPP which has *ACTUAL* concentration camps and does organ harvesting. There's no freedom of speech or thought for that matter.

    The west has allowed the CPP to exploit the hardworking Chinese people so that corporations can squeeze out extra profits. 

    I'm APPL long. I personally and my family have made between 1.7-2 million dollars combined in our Apple investments. Up until 5 years ago, we were ignorant and had no interest in China. Since then we've been very vocal shareholders.  I doubt Apple listened to us but there's a large group of shareholders that we're part of that has been pushing Apple to diversify its manufacturing because China (CPP controlled) is NOT the future. Apple is doing this and it's great news.

    LOL   You aren't aware that Russia attacked our elections in
    -- 2016
    -- 2018
    -- 2020
       
    Really?   Seriously?   Our intelligence communities have confirmed that a number of times now.

    Oh yeh, I forgot!   Trump told you to ignore Russia and blame China for everything!    Got it!   He still needs their help to keep his butt out of jail!  
    Carnage
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  • Reply 28 of 108
    SpamSandwichspamsandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Foxconn is a Taiwanese company.  I'm surprised an executive there would speak this frankly about their business in the PRC.  He must be confident in what he says, because if China does remain "the factory of the world" Foxconn's access to that factory could be threatened.
    Exactly my thoughts on this statement. He must now be very serious about divesting Foxconn’s interests in China... or maybe the translation was misinterpreted..?
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 29 of 108
    GeorgeBMacgeorgebmac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    Very risky for him to plainly state this in the press. China could simply seize their operations still in China.
    Think about that avalanche of disengagement that would occur all at once if the world's larges consumer electronics company's operations were seized in China, Then think about the flow of capital, primary in dollars, coming from the West drying up.

    Oh wait. Apple only owns and operates retail stores and a PRC regulated iCloud infrastructure. Everything else is Apple's suppliers and contract manufacturers. Apple would lose massive production of its products, but China would henceforth be considered toxic for manufacturing by every Western Nation.

    Resilience requires that companies disengage from China, and resilience requires that nations and companies diversify their supply chains outside of China and preferably onto multiple continents. 

    COVID19 made it perfectly clear what would happen to supply chains in a black swan event, and it is a lesson that will be learned.





    Yeh, all that COULD happen!   But it is about as likely as the sun rising in the west tomorrow -- except in the well washed brain of a Trumper.

    But that's all you Trumpers have:  No evidence.   No facts.   Just possibilities.
    ... So should we have you arrested for that bank you might rob tomorrow?
    muthuk_vanalingam
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  • Reply 30 of 108
    GeorgeBMacgeorgebmac Posts: 11,421member
    sflocal said:
    Very risky for him to plainly state this in the press. China could simply seize their operations still in China.
    China's not that stupid.  If China seized a company like that, it would be the siren heard around the world for every company doing business in China to get the hell out.  China will not risk a mass exodus of companies.

    I'd love to see China try that though.  Foxconn being a Taiwanese company is irrelevant imho.  

    Easier and more legal for them to simply just take Taiwan back.    Trumpers would have a hissy fit.   But the rest of the world already recognizes that Taiwan is part of China.
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  • Reply 31 of 108
    GeorgeBMacgeorgebmac Posts: 11,421member
    hexclock said:
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.
    The UK said the same:   They were bowing to Trump's geopolitical pressure at the expense of their own best interests....

    And as to there being "infrastructure anywhere" -- we saw how false that statement is as China quickly returned to full production while India and the U.S. are still struggling to control the virus.
    Russia, Russia, Russia.... get over it dude. 

    Why would I get over an enemy attacking our country -- unless I favored the dictator they were installing here?
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  • Reply 32 of 108
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,150member
    asdasd said:

    john_t said:
    99% of what comes out of China is cheap crap that breaks within half a year. It would be a shock, but it’s better for all of us to start producing again in our own countries. We’ve let China get away with blatant human rights violations long enough. They’re bullying the entire planet, and they’ve been expanding both militarily and economically. It’s time this stops. 
    Thats not true at all, they clearly have the most advanced manufacturing in the world. Tim Cook has pretty much said that. 
    That is only true because companies like Apple are constantly monitoring what comes out of the factories and that it is top quality.  Without supervision, they will do whatever it takes to use the cheapest/inferior materials (like most of what they make) and dump it to consumers.

    The company I work at stopped doing being with China a few years ago.  We'd buy product from China to use in our end-items, and when we noticed the quality started slipping, we discovered that they veered off from our original requirements/quality standards and started using inferior substitutes, yet charged us the same price!  When we caught them doing that, they reverted back to the original designs, only to pull that stunt twice again.  We terminated our business with them and took our business out from China.

    They really suck.  They reel you in with their cheap prices, but it ends up being more expensive in the long run.
    svanstromtmayGG1watto_cobra
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  • Reply 33 of 108
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,875member
    China was already on the downhill run for manufacturing prior to the "trade war" and tariffs, and Apple's groundwork in India during the Obama administration was a rather big hint in that regard. China had developed enough that there were cheaper countries for labor in the immediate vicinity and also in Mexico/Central/South America.
    This reflects the reality that I’ve seen firsthand, at least for light manufacturing and software development. China had gotten too expensive and doesn’t have the tax shelter benefits of, say Singapore. Vietnam and the Philippines are cheaper. The new outsourcing opportunities for software are South America and even Central America, especially Brazil and Columbia. 

    Capitalism trumps ideology every time. 
    edited August 2020
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 34 of 108
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,674member
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.

    I think both China and Russia are problems, just in very different ways. 

    Putin's Russia is essentially a criminal organization with nuclear weapons.

    China is a legit great power with long term strategic ambitions. 

    Of the two, Russia is probably harder to negotiate with but easier to straight up defeat if we were to get serious about defeating them.

    China is probably harder to straight up defeat but easier to influence through negotiation and diplomacy (not just negotiation and diplomacy with china but also with allies interested in containing China). That's because China has long term strategic interests that go beyond the narrow personal interests of current leadership. I think Chinese leadership (and Chinese more generally) see themselves as being part of human civilization, moving the species forward (just not necessarily in ways that Americans and Europeans would always agree with). Russian leaders are just thugs running a syndicate. 
    BeatsGG1muthuk_vanalingambikerdudewatto_cobra
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  • Reply 35 of 108
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,674member

    Foxconn is a Taiwanese company.  I'm surprised an executive there would speak this frankly about their business in the PRC.  He must be confident in what he says, because if China does remain "the factory of the world" Foxconn's access to that factory could be threatened.
    Yeah... I also worry about TSMC. 

    The Taiwan Straits are just a little over 100 miles wide. Taiwan spends about $10 billion a year on its military, China spent about $200 billion a year. 

    I've read Taiwan thinks maybe they could hold out for a month if they were invaded. That might be optimistic. But even if accurate, it implicitly assumes somebody might try to rescue them. Who would that be? At this point I don't think the US alone could repel China from Taiwan. I think we'd need a lot of help, certainly from the Japanese. Would we do it? I don't know... I'd put it at 50-50. It would be a very major effort, like nothing we've done since WW2. 
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 36 of 108
    sreesree Posts: 153member
    blastdoor said:
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.

    I think both China and Russia are problems, just in very different ways. 

    Putin's Russia is essentially a criminal organization with nuclear weapons.

    China is a legit great power with long term strategic ambitions. 

    Of the two, Russia is probably harder to negotiate with but easier to straight up defeat if we were to get serious about defeating them.

    China is probably harder to straight up defeat but easier to influence through negotiation and diplomacy (not just negotiation and diplomacy with china but also with allies interested in containing China). That's because China has long term strategic interests that go beyond the narrow personal interests of current leadership. I think Chinese leadership (and Chinese more generally) see themselves as being part of human civilization, moving the species forward (just not necessarily in ways that Americans and Europeans would always agree with). Russian leaders are just thugs running a syndicate. 
    I think you are describing a china of 20yrs ago, not the china of today. They have veered far from their balance, and years of uber-nationalism has significantly lowered their wisdom and strategic thinking.
    tmaydanhwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 37 of 108
    Beatsbeats Posts: 3,073member
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.
    The UK said the same:   They were bowing to Trump's geopolitical pressure at the expense of their own best interests....

    And as to there being "infrastructure anywhere" -- we saw how false that statement is as China quickly returned to full production while India and the U.S. are still struggling to control the virus.

    Which was who's fault? CHINA!

    I'm starting to think this was all strategic. Hide the virus, let everyone else get it, control it, let the other fuc*ers economy and people die.

    Why are the iKnockoff users so quiet suddenly?

    I say bring manufacturing back to the U.S. I'm betting all Apple leaks are coming from China.
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 38 of 108
    Just means another country will pick up some of the slack, but not the USA. Capitalism sends low skilled jobs to the cheapest place. Unless Americans are willing to see prices go up 600% manufacturing ain't coming back here unless there are massive changes to how business operates here. As long as the majority of profits are pushed into the fewest hands possible and paying living wages is seen as a weakness for a company, nothing will change.
    GeorgeBMacmuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 39 of 108
    Just means another country will pick up some of the slack, but not the USA. Capitalism sends low skilled jobs to the cheapest place. Unless Americans are willing to see prices go up 600% manufacturing ain't coming back here unless there are massive changes to how business operates here. As long as the majority of profits are pushed into the fewest hands possible and paying living wages is seen as a weakness for a company, nothing will change.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 40 of 108
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,674member
    sree said:
    blastdoor said:
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.

    I think both China and Russia are problems, just in very different ways. 

    Putin's Russia is essentially a criminal organization with nuclear weapons.

    China is a legit great power with long term strategic ambitions. 

    Of the two, Russia is probably harder to negotiate with but easier to straight up defeat if we were to get serious about defeating them.

    China is probably harder to straight up defeat but easier to influence through negotiation and diplomacy (not just negotiation and diplomacy with china but also with allies interested in containing China). That's because China has long term strategic interests that go beyond the narrow personal interests of current leadership. I think Chinese leadership (and Chinese more generally) see themselves as being part of human civilization, moving the species forward (just not necessarily in ways that Americans and Europeans would always agree with). Russian leaders are just thugs running a syndicate. 
    I think you are describing a china of 20yrs ago, not the china of today. They have veered far from their balance, and years of uber-nationalism has significantly lowered their wisdom and strategic thinking.
    Well, that's a good point. Of course, the same could be said of the United States. But I still think both the US and China, despite considerable problems, are still great powers while Russia is a criminal enterprise. 

    It's far from inevitable that the US and China will self-correct, but I think they both have the potential to do so. I see no potential in Russia. 


    watto_cobra
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