Foxconn says trade war means China can no longer be 'the world's factory'

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 108
    Japheyjaphey Posts: 1,773member
    hexclock said:
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.
    The UK said the same:   They were bowing to Trump's  geopolitical pressure at the expense of their own best interests....

    And as to there being "infrastructure anywhere" -- we saw how false that statement is as China quickly returned to full production while India and the U.S. are still struggling to control the virus.
    Russia, Russia, Russia.... get over it dude. 

    Why would I get over an enemy attacking our country -- unless I favored the dictator they were installing here?
    Dude, enough already! Take it somewhere else. Try an MSNBC or CNN forum. 
    edited August 2020
    anantksundaramdewmeGG1SpamSandwichinTIMidatorwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 42 of 108
    SpamSandwichspamsandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Just means another country will pick up some of the slack, but not the USA. Capitalism sends low skilled jobs to the cheapest place. Unless Americans are willing to see prices go up 600% manufacturing ain't coming back here unless there are massive changes to how business operates here. As long as the majority of profits are pushed into the fewest hands possible and paying living wages is seen as a weakness for a company, nothing will change.
    You earn what you’re worth to an employer and what you negotiate. The “living wages” meme is propaganda. 
    edited August 2020
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  • Reply 43 of 108
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,876member
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.
    The UK said the same:   They were bowing to Trump's geopolitical pressure at the expense of their own best interests....

    And as to there being "infrastructure anywhere" -- we saw how false that statement is as China quickly returned to full production while India and the U.S. are still struggling to control the virus.

    Russia is a glorified gas station masquerading as a country. Texas has a 5th the population and a much bigger economy. I recommend not listening to hysterical cable news political activists and instead to think for yourself. 

    You're carrying water for the CPP which has *ACTUAL* concentration camps and does organ harvesting. There's no freedom of speech or thought for that matter.

    The west has allowed the CPP to exploit the hardworking Chinese people so that corporations can squeeze out extra profits. 

    I'm APPL long. I personally and my family have made between 1.7-2 million dollars combined in our Apple investments. Up until 5 years ago, we were ignorant and had no interest in China. Since then we've been very vocal shareholders.  I doubt Apple listened to us but there's a large group of shareholders that we're part of that has been pushing Apple to diversify its manufacturing because China (CPP controlled) is NOT the future. Apple is doing this and it's great news.
    There are several people here who defend China to the ends of the Earth for some inexplicable reason, I can only reason that they are Chinese shills. The CCP is an abusive, threatening, vile regime. The Chinese economy exists purely to serve the Xi and the CCP. The sooner manufacturing leaves China the better, from economic to ecological and political to human rights reasons. I will happily pay 10-25% more for products made outside of China.
    SpamSandwichallmypeopleanantksundaramsvanstromGG1danhwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 44 of 108
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,683member
    razorpit said:
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.
    The UK said the same:   They were bowing to Trump's geopolitical pressure at the expense of their own best interests....

    And as to there being "infrastructure anywhere" -- we saw how false that statement is as China quickly returned to full production while India and the U.S. are still struggling to control the virus.
    You think this trade war with China is something new? Just because the previous administrations chose to ignore and let them eat our lunch doesn't mean it wasn't happening.  Do you forget how just a few months ago we weren't even able to produce stupid masks and medicine because we were at the mercy of China?

    Look, I get you don't like the Orange Man, that's your choice. I encourage you to go spend a few months over there. Work in manufacturing/sourcing. Attempt to purchase property, start a business, be independent as you are here. Then come back and tell us how it went.

    You don't even have to go over sea's to get the full experience. Try that in Mexico. Tell them you're an American and you are here to purchase some land and start your own company. And for a preview of our future if the socialists get their way, stop down in Venezuela and try to order a nice ribeye in a restaurant.

    And by the way, "the 80's called. They want their foreign policy back."

    Yes, the Trade War with China is ALL, 100% Trump.
    The priors administrations (PLURAL!) didn't ignore it.   It simply didn't exist.
    Bull.
    https://www.ft.com/content/fed9f136-4914-11e6-8d68-72e9211e86ab

    "Barack Obama has escalated the US’s trade battle with China, launching a formal complaint against Beijing as both of his potential successors push the domestic political debate in an increasingly protectionist direction on the campaign trail. The new case, brought by the US president on Wednesday with the World Trade Organisation, challenges Beijing’s export restrictions on key commodities needed by US manufacturers and was accompanied by sharp rhetoric from the White House. “It all comes down to fair competition — a notion that is fundamental to who we are as Americans,” vice-president Joe Biden said. "

    "The case launched on Wednesday is the 13th brought to the WTO by the Obama administration which Mr Biden said had moved “more aggressively than any previous administration in history” to take on China and enforce US trade laws. 
    edited August 2020
    elijahgSpamSandwichsvanstromGG1
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  • Reply 45 of 108
    razorpitrazorpit Posts: 1,796member
    mknelson said:
    razorpit said:
    You don't even have to go over sea's to get the full experience. Try that in Mexico. Tell them you're an American and you are here to purchase some land and start your own company. And for a preview of our future if the socialists get their way, stop down in Venezuela and try to order a nice ribeye in a restaurant.
    That's a weak argument, cherry picking one "socialist" government that's failing. Venezuela's economy is hampered by sanctions and corruption.

    US "socialists" are primarily looking for solutions to health care and poverty reduction like in continental Europe, Sweden, UK, Canada…

    No problem getting a ribeye here! Helps that we have also done a much better job of getting COVID under some measure of control.
    By attempting to take over cities and/or burn them down? By changing our form of government? There are many, many, failed socialist countries my friend. I just happened to picked the one that was the darling of the left about 10-15 years ago. All the Hollywood elites we digging it at the time.
    SpamSandwichwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 46 of 108
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.
    The UK said the same:   They were bowing to Trump's geopolitical pressure at the expense of their own best interests....

    And as to there being "infrastructure anywhere" -- we saw how false that statement is as China quickly returned to full production while India and the U.S. are still struggling to control the virus.

    Russia is a glorified gas station masquerading as a country. Texas has a 5th the population and a much bigger economy. I recommend not listening to hysterical cable news political activists and instead to think for yourself. 

    You're carrying water for the CPP which has *ACTUAL* concentration camps and does organ harvesting. There's no freedom of speech or thought for that matter.

    The west has allowed the CPP to exploit the hardworking Chinese people so that corporations can squeeze out extra profits. 

    I'm APPL long. I personally and my family have made between 1.7-2 million dollars combined in our Apple investments. Up until 5 years ago, we were ignorant and had no interest in China. Since then we've been very vocal shareholders.  I doubt Apple listened to us but there's a large group of shareholders that we're part of that has been pushing Apple to diversify its manufacturing because China (CPP controlled) is NOT the future. Apple is doing this and it's great news.

    LOL   You aren't aware that Russia attacked our elections in
    -- 2016
    -- 2018
    -- 2020
       
    Really?   Seriously?   Our intelligence communities have confirmed that a number of times now.

    Oh yeh, I forgot!   Trump told you to ignore Russia and blame China for everything!    Got it!   He still needs their help to keep his butt out of jail!  
    A few tweets isn’t really “attacking elections”. The US interferes in every single country by the way, Russia not least. Time magazine 1995 

    http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19960715,00.html
    razorpitmuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 47 of 108
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    elijahg said:
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.
    The UK said the same:   They were bowing to Trump's geopolitical pressure at the expense of their own best interests....

    And as to there being "infrastructure anywhere" -- we saw how false that statement is as China quickly returned to full production while India and the U.S. are still struggling to control the virus.

    Russia is a glorified gas station masquerading as a country. Texas has a 5th the population and a much bigger economy. I recommend not listening to hysterical cable news political activists and instead to think for yourself. 

    You're carrying water for the CPP which has *ACTUAL* concentration camps and does organ harvesting. There's no freedom of speech or thought for that matter.

    The west has allowed the CPP to exploit the hardworking Chinese people so that corporations can squeeze out extra profits. 

    I'm APPL long. I personally and my family have made between 1.7-2 million dollars combined in our Apple investments. Up until 5 years ago, we were ignorant and had no interest in China. Since then we've been very vocal shareholders.  I doubt Apple listened to us but there's a large group of shareholders that we're part of that has been pushing Apple to diversify its manufacturing because China (CPP controlled) is NOT the future. Apple is doing this and it's great news.
    There are several people here who defend China to the ends of the Earth for some inexplicable reason, I can only reason that they are Chinese shills. The CCP is an abusive, threatening, vile regime. The Chinese economy exists purely to serve the Xi and the CCP. The sooner manufacturing leaves China the better, from economic to ecological and political to human rights reasons. I will happily pay 10-25% more for products made outside of China.
    The CCP has made its average working population much richer than they were 20 years ago, which is more than can be said of the DemRep uni party. In fact the oligarchs that control US economic and foreign policy made the deliberate decision to outsource manufacturing at the cost to American workers decades ago and has decided to rile up the masses just now as China becomes a military and economic threat to them. Not you. 

    Given the relatively minute differences on policy, particularly on economic policy and foreign policy, it’s surprising how bitter the debate is in the US. I know some of it is cultural, but there are cultural divisions between parties across the western world, between conservatives and liberals, between left and right. 

    It’s possibly the narcissism of the small difference but I wonder if there isn’t some kind of mind control going on, the oligarchs and plutocrats knowing there is a fig leaf between the parties if that, so the media they own - left and right - pathologise the opposition as traitors and frauds, and as illegitimate; This shouting and paranoia replacing democratic choice.

     Meanwhile in many European and other democratic countries there are a dozen or more parties, with wide ranging policies from (actual) communist, through greens, centre and far left, centrist, centre and far right, separatists, mild to extreme nationalists and with the exception of the latter nobody cares much who wins. 
    edited August 2020
    muthuk_vanalingam
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 48 of 108
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.
    The UK said the same:   They were bowing to Trump's geopolitical pressure at the expense of their own best interests....

    And as to there being "infrastructure anywhere" -- we saw how false that statement is as China quickly returned to full production while India and the U.S. are still struggling to control the virus.
    You're very gullible.

    The truth is that pretty much all autocracies are inimical to our way of life.

    Russia has a deep-rooted jealous antagonism because they lost the cold war and revel in past glories, and China has been fighting an undeclared war with the western world for decades.

    Gullible western politicians who thought they were much smarter than they really were attempted to secure China rights and privileges and economic prosperity in hopes that a western standard of living and membership in international organizations would cause China to assimilate into the tenets of modern western society, but they failed to take into account the Chinese Communist Party and its stranglehold on the citizens of China.

    As a lifelong conservative, I abhor Trump and what he's done leading to the corruption of the Republican Party and conservative movement. They used to be the party of statesmen - but now they toady to this reality TV star who constantly engages in magical thinking and ignores experts of any sort.

    But - no one is right all the time and no one gets everything wrong.

    The one constructive thing that Trump has done - no matter what the motivation for his actions - has been to push back against the Chinese Communist Party.

    The CCP is a truly evil organization and is guilty of heinous crimes which dwarf those of the other boogymen who we actively revile. They are an organization who takes but never gives, an organization without morality or honor whose only reason for existence is their own survival. They completely control the truth in China, deny their own people aid when disaster strikes, and use their resources to influence other societies. They attempt to take control of international organizations and push their soft power throughout western media with paid propagandists. They attempt to export their own brand of Big Brother autocracy to other countries in hopes of shaping the world in their own image.

    We need to divest ourselves of China and move non-Chinese consumer manufacturing out of that county.

    Anyone know where the TSMC fabs are located?
    edited August 2020
    gatorguytmaydewmeGG1danh
     4Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 49 of 108
    qwerty52qwerty52 Posts: 369member
    The statement of Foxconn makes my day! I was waiting years long to finally hear this.
    GG1
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 50 of 108
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    Just means another country will pick up some of the slack, but not the USA. Capitalism sends low skilled jobs to the cheapest place. Unless Americans are willing to see prices go up 600% manufacturing ain't coming back here unless there are massive changes to how business operates here. As long as the majority of profits are pushed into the fewest hands possible and paying living wages is seen as a weakness for a company, nothing will change.
    Actually prices wouldn’t rise 600%. Labour is just one cost and US labour isn’t 6 times higher than china. Google the average wage in Beijing. 

    capital doesn’t move across the world on a whim, even for unskilled labour cheapness isn’t everything. Political stability, supply chain, management experience, education systems, and more matter as much. Or else every company would be in Africa. When companies do go to Africa it’s often to exploit resources, but manufacturing or assembly that is free to go anywhere doesn’t go everywhere. 

    And high skilled manufacturing tends to be in high waged countries, a statement you can reverse because high wages are justified by high productivity, but high waged workers are more productive. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 51 of 108
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,150member
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.
    The UK said the same:   They were bowing to Trump's geopolitical pressure at the expense of their own best interests....

    And as to there being "infrastructure anywhere" -- we saw how false that statement is as China quickly returned to full production while India and the U.S. are still struggling to control the virus.

    Russia is a glorified gas station masquerading as a country. Texas has a 5th the population and a much bigger economy. I recommend not listening to hysterical cable news political activists and instead to think for yourself. 

    You're carrying water for the CPP which has *ACTUAL* concentration camps and does organ harvesting. There's no freedom of speech or thought for that matter.

    The west has allowed the CPP to exploit the hardworking Chinese people so that corporations can squeeze out extra profits. 

    I'm APPL long. I personally and my family have made between 1.7-2 million dollars combined in our Apple investments. Up until 5 years ago, we were ignorant and had no interest in China. Since then we've been very vocal shareholders.  I doubt Apple listened to us but there's a large group of shareholders that we're part of that has been pushing Apple to diversify its manufacturing because China (CPP controlled) is NOT the future. Apple is doing this and it's great news.

    LOL   You aren't aware that Russia attacked our elections in
    -- 2016
    -- 2018
    -- 2020
       
    Really?   Seriously?   Our intelligence communities have confirmed that a number of times now.

    Oh yeh, I forgot!   Trump told you to ignore Russia and blame China for everything!    Got it!   He still needs their help to keep his butt out of jail!  
    Why can't both be an issue?  Russia too needs to be dealt with, but I think China is a far worse problem that is brewing in the global economy.  China has the capability to one day be the #1 world superpower if it continues at the rate it's going.  Russia certainly is no saint, but China openly defies the rest of the world with human rights violations, disregards environmental issues, militarizing islands, open theft of IP, etc... list keeps on going.... 

    And then there's Russia too...
    gatorguymuthuk_vanalingam
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  • Reply 52 of 108
    China is certainly a dominant part of the problem, but Trump's ham-fisted, brain-dead, get even policies are at least as big a part of the problem. The solution, GET RID OF TRUMP, and for starters and put Kamala Harris, a take-no-hostages former Attorney General, in charge of foreign affairs. China has a communist government, we have a budding autocracy which will turn into a full-blown dictatorship if Trump is re-elected. We may have a serious trade war with China, but if our science hating president gets a second term, I truly believe we will have a Civil War!
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 53 of 108
    razorpitrazorpit Posts: 1,796member
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.
    The UK said the same:   They were bowing to Trump's geopolitical pressure at the expense of their own best interests....

    And as to there being "infrastructure anywhere" -- we saw how false that statement is as China quickly returned to full production while India and the U.S. are still struggling to control the virus.
    You're very gullible.

    The truth is that pretty much all autocracies are inimical to our way of life.

    Russia has a deep-rooted jealous antagonism because they lost the cold war and revel in past glories, and China has been fighting an undeclared war with the western world for decades.

    Gullible western politicians who thought they were much smarter than they really were attempted to secure China rights and privileges and economic prosperity in hopes that a western standard of living and membership in international organizations would cause China to assimilate into the tenets of modern western society, but they failed to take into account the Chinese Communist Party and its stranglehold on the citizens of China.

    As a lifelong conservative, I abhor Trump and what he's done leading to the corruption of the Republican Party and conservative movement. They used to be the party of statesmen - but now they toady to this reality TV star who constantly engages in magical thinking and ignores experts of any sort.

    But - no one is right all the time and no one gets everything wrong.

    The one constructive thing that Trump has done - no matter what the motivation for his actions - has been to push back against the Chinese Communist Party.

    The CCP is a truly evil organization and is guilty of heinous crimes which dwarf those of the other boogymen who we actively revile. They are an organization who takes but never gives, an organization without morality or honor whose only reason for existence is their own survival. They completely control the truth in China, deny their own people aid when disaster strikes, and use their resources to influence other societies. They attempt to take control of international organizations and push their soft power throughout western media with paid propagandists. They attempt to export their own brand of Big Brother autocracy to other countries in hopes of shaping the world in their own image.

    We need to divest ourselves of China and move non-Chinese consumer manufacturing out of that county.

    Anyone know where the TSMC fabs are located?

    I agree with what you said with one exception, the statesmen Republicans have been getting their asses handed to them for decades. While I don't like Trump on a personal level, he's certainly showed the Republicans it's ok to push back. Hopefully they remember that lesson.
    SpamSandwich
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 54 of 108
    Japhey said:
    hexclock said:
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.
    The UK said the same:   They were bowing to Trump's  geopolitical pressure at the expense of their own best interests....

    And as to there being "infrastructure anywhere" -- we saw how false that statement is as China quickly returned to full production while India and the U.S. are still struggling to control the virus.
    Russia, Russia, Russia.... get over it dude. 

    Why would I get over an enemy attacking our country -- unless I favored the dictator they were installing here?
    Dude, enough already! Take it somewhere else. Try an MSNBC or CNN forum. 
    I've been in this forum since 2006. Once every couple of years, along comes an agenda-driven one-note-Johnny+troll+guy-with-too-much-time-on-his-hands+too-much-anger+too-much-politics+can't-see-beyond-his-nose who regularly derails or hijacks discussions. They thrive on the fact that they drive sensible people crazy. No amount of facts or links or rational responses will change their minds. It's a complete waste of time to engage them.

    The only advice I can give: just ignore them; they'll quietly slink away. Their oxygen is from your head exploding.
    razorpitgatorguyGG1bikerdudeinTIMidatorJaphey
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  • Reply 55 of 108
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,327member
    hexclock said:
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.
    The UK said the same:   They were bowing to Trump's geopolitical pressure at the expense of their own best interests....

    And as to there being "infrastructure anywhere" -- we saw how false that statement is as China quickly returned to full production while India and the U.S. are still struggling to control the virus.
    Russia, Russia, Russia.... get over it dude. 

    Why would I get over an enemy attacking our country -- unless I favored the dictator they were installing here?
    The United States has been trying to influence other countries elections forever. If you think that other countries have just started trying to influence ours in just the last few years, you are crazy. Why anyone would be surprised that the reciprocal is true is beyond me. China has far more resources, technology, and military power than Russia ever had, and they also have a stated goal of supplanting the US as the primary world power, and replacing US currency as the world standard. China has inserted agents into almost every aspect of our society. 
    Russia may well be an adversary, but at least we work with them on a variety of  projects (ISS). China is far more aggressive, closed off and determined to beat us, and it can’t be ignored any longer. 
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 56 of 108
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,327member
    China is certainly a dominant part of the problem, but Trump's ham-fisted, brain-dead, get even policies are at least as big a part of the problem. The solution, GET RID OF TRUMP, and for starters and put Kamala Harris, a take-no-hostages former Attorney General, in charge of foreign affairs. China has a communist government, we have a budding autocracy which will turn into a full-blown dictatorship if Trump is re-elected. We may have a serious trade war with China, but if our science hating president gets a second term, I truly believe we will have a Civil War!
    Russia bot alert!!! ^^^^^^^
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 57 of 108
    asdasd said:
    elijahg said:
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.
    The UK said the same:   They were bowing to Trump's geopolitical pressure at the expense of their own best interests....

    And as to there being "infrastructure anywhere" -- we saw how false that statement is as China quickly returned to full production while India and the U.S. are still struggling to control the virus.

    Russia is a glorified gas station masquerading as a country. Texas has a 5th the population and a much bigger economy. I recommend not listening to hysterical cable news political activists and instead to think for yourself. 

    You're carrying water for the CPP which has *ACTUAL* concentration camps and does organ harvesting. There's no freedom of speech or thought for that matter.

    The west has allowed the CPP to exploit the hardworking Chinese people so that corporations can squeeze out extra profits. 

    I'm APPL long. I personally and my family have made between 1.7-2 million dollars combined in our Apple investments. Up until 5 years ago, we were ignorant and had no interest in China. Since then we've been very vocal shareholders.  I doubt Apple listened to us but there's a large group of shareholders that we're part of that has been pushing Apple to diversify its manufacturing because China (CPP controlled) is NOT the future. Apple is doing this and it's great news.
    There are several people here who defend China to the ends of the Earth for some inexplicable reason, I can only reason that they are Chinese shills. The CCP is an abusive, threatening, vile regime. The Chinese economy exists purely to serve the Xi and the CCP. The sooner manufacturing leaves China the better, from economic to ecological and political to human rights reasons. I will happily pay 10-25% more for products made outside of China.
    The CCP has made its average working population much richer than they were 20 years ago, 
    Yeah, you just had to be among those getting rich to benefit from that, and not among the other parts of the people; like those getting driven away from their land (or cities), or sent to "reeducation" camps…
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 58 of 108
    asdasd said:
    elijahg said:
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.
    The UK said the same:   They were bowing to Trump's geopolitical pressure at the expense of their own best interests....

    And as to there being "infrastructure anywhere" -- we saw how false that statement is as China quickly returned to full production while India and the U.S. are still struggling to control the virus.

    Russia is a glorified gas station masquerading as a country. Texas has a 5th the population and a much bigger economy. I recommend not listening to hysterical cable news political activists and instead to think for yourself. 

    You're carrying water for the CPP which has *ACTUAL* concentration camps and does organ harvesting. There's no freedom of speech or thought for that matter.

    The west has allowed the CPP to exploit the hardworking Chinese people so that corporations can squeeze out extra profits. 

    I'm APPL long. I personally and my family have made between 1.7-2 million dollars combined in our Apple investments. Up until 5 years ago, we were ignorant and had no interest in China. Since then we've been very vocal shareholders.  I doubt Apple listened to us but there's a large group of shareholders that we're part of that has been pushing Apple to diversify its manufacturing because China (CPP controlled) is NOT the future. Apple is doing this and it's great news.
    There are several people here who defend China to the ends of the Earth for some inexplicable reason, I can only reason that they are Chinese shills. The CCP is an abusive, threatening, vile regime. The Chinese economy exists purely to serve the Xi and the CCP. The sooner manufacturing leaves China the better, from economic to ecological and political to human rights reasons. I will happily pay 10-25% more for products made outside of China.
    The CCP has made its average working population much richer than they were 20 years ago, 
    Yeah, you just had to be among those getting rich to benefit from that, and not among the other parts of the people; like those getting driven away from their land (or cities), or sent to "reeducation" camps…
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 59 of 108
    GeorgeBMacgeorgebmac Posts: 11,421member
    blastdoor said:
    If, as he says, it's all about Trump's trade war, then that will no longer be necessary once we can return to facing our real enemy:  Russia.

    I think both China and Russia are problems, just in very different ways. 

    Putin's Russia is essentially a criminal organization with nuclear weapons.

    China is a legit great power with long term strategic ambitions. 

    Of the two, Russia is probably harder to negotiate with but easier to straight up defeat if we were to get serious about defeating them.

    China is probably harder to straight up defeat but easier to influence through negotiation and diplomacy (not just negotiation and diplomacy with china but also with allies interested in containing China). That's because China has long term strategic interests that go beyond the narrow personal interests of current leadership. I think Chinese leadership (and Chinese more generally) see themselves as being part of human civilization, moving the species forward (just not necessarily in ways that Americans and Europeans would always agree with). Russian leaders are just thugs running a syndicate. 

    Pretty  much true!
    The part you left out -- and what is triggering Trump's war on China (aside from a distraction from his own failures and criminality) is that China will soon be acknowledged as the world's number one economy -- and "We Try Harder" just doesn't look good on a Trump hat.

    Unfortunately, instead of promoting, building up and improving the U.S., he is trying to tear down China.  It's just how he does things.   He simply crushes his opponent using whatever means he can get away with.
    thinkman@chartermi.netmuthuk_vanalingam
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  • Reply 60 of 108
    GeorgeBMacgeorgebmac Posts: 11,421member
    blastdoor said:

    Foxconn is a Taiwanese company.  I'm surprised an executive there would speak this frankly about their business in the PRC.  He must be confident in what he says, because if China does remain "the factory of the world" Foxconn's access to that factory could be threatened.
    Yeah... I also worry about TSMC. 

    The Taiwan Straits are just a little over 100 miles wide. Taiwan spends about $10 billion a year on its military, China spent about $200 billion a year. 

    I've read Taiwan thinks maybe they could hold out for a month if they were invaded. That might be optimistic. But even if accurate, it implicitly assumes somebody might try to rescue them. Who would that be? At this point I don't think the US alone could repel China from Taiwan. I think we'd need a lot of help, certainly from the Japanese. Would we do it? I don't know... I'd put it at 50-50. It would be a very major effort, like nothing we've done since WW2. 

    Trump is the only one who doesn't recognize Taiwan is part of China.
    We would get no help.   And China would kick our butts.  If nothing else (and there would be something else) all they have to do is sink our boats and there's nothing easier to sink than an aircraft carrier.   You can't hardly miss!
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