Apple hourly workers feel helpless under punishing pressure & mistreatment

2456

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 104
    chaickachaicka Posts: 250member
    Just wonder why Apple has ‘attracted’ a lot of great customer service staffs away from other Apple authorised resellers and even other retailers where I am residing, if Apple’s retail environment and remuneration are that bad?

    On customers’ attitude and behaviour, it happens across all service sectors, be it Apple or elsewhere. At least Apple has security personnel’s at each store here and will not hesitate to take appropriate actions and involve local law enforcement when necessary.
    radarthekatdewmemaximara
  • Reply 22 of 104
    jimh2jimh2 Posts: 402member
    If you do not like a job then find another and quit. It’s not healthy to do something that you hate and it is a waste of a life. Might take some schooling or training to get a better job but make it happen. 
    radarthekatmagman1979
  • Reply 23 of 104
    darkvader said:
    Always remember that 'Genius' you think is doing such a great job repairing your computer, so much better than a third-party repair shop could possibly do, is actually working for about $13/hour.  Apple does not pay store employees a living wage.
    I’m all for recognizing that Apple needs to pay their employees more equitably, not to mention more. But most Specialists (a term for sale people before 2017) made more than $13 dollars an hour. Genius were making anywhere from 17-$22 an hour back then too. Where are you deriving your information… and from which decade?
    radarthekatmagman1979Dogperson
  • Reply 24 of 104
    georgie01 said:
    This attitude of ‘I deserve better’ is literally ruining our societies. I’m not saying they do or don’t deserve better, I don’t know. What I do know is that ungratefulness, jealousy, and entitled attitudes lead to things falling apart. Not building things up.

    It’s not even that long ago that people were grateful for their jobs, even if they weren’t ideal. Working is a privilege, but our culture looks at how other people have it better or just that we think we deserve better. Most people don’t understand that attitude breaks down the culture. A lack of appreciation ruins everything.
    I would agree with you if what you’re saying was the actual problem people are discussing here. It’s not. I myself used to be an Apple retail employee. Worked there for 6 years. I got smart and left after that time because back in 2015 … yes even then the problem was as it remains today-a lack of dignity for the employees. Getting yelled at by customers who are the “I deserve more” people you’re misunderstanding for the employees. 
    Dignity is the problem. Not wanting more. And maybe to your point, even if they throw $1k in bonus to employees that’s an empty gesture. The whole environment needs to change in retail stores to curb the systemic problems that pervade in the retail environment.
    hammeroftruthbeowulfschmidtelijahg
  • Reply 25 of 104
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,494moderator
    Until you’ve worked in Apple retail you have no idea what the day to day looks like. 
    14 years and I have had many years that I loved my job..I would not of stayed so long if I hadn’t. 
    You meet amazing people that are so intelligent and creative. Life long friendships. Both co-workers and customers. The customers are part of our communities. The products are amazing!  You are allowed to bring your unique and diverse best self to work everyday. 
    Until it all changes…like everything good it comes to an end. 
    If the pandemic didn’t teach most of us that life is short, who wants to slave in the retail stores so Tim Cook can build is trillion dollar dreams! 
    The hours are tough! Everyday you work different  shifts, no set schedule! Your availability has to be open. Your life is not your own. No time for your family on the weekends or evenings, No seniority!  The environment is loud and intense, try standing in those “special”floors for 8 hours a day. 
    Getting yelled at by a different customer then the  pre pandemic customer. Cause the community customers are now far and few between. 
    Being told good job on your time management, now take on another customer please, now working with 2-3 customers at the same time in the genus bar. Yearly performance review for the last 12 years has been . 24 cent increase!!! 
    At a Meets expectations .54 cent increase at a Exceeds expectations! 
    The story can go on and on…but until you do it you’ll never understand what a underpaid tough job it is.  
    I am grateful for many things, it’s just not an easy job anymore. Now that I am an older employee, I feel I have no job protection and it’s harder then ever, I don’t deserve to just have to walk away and “find another job” this was my career, I have gave it everything, sacrificed my family times to build this career . Now at 55 I can look and see it wasn’t worth it. 
    Post pandemic has opened my eyes to life is too short to give it all up to  

    Too short to give up to Apple or to any employer.  Did Apple tell you at the start of your career with them that there would be a promotion track off the retail floor?  If they did, then you should have left when that didn’t materialize after a number of years.  If they didn’t then it’s on you making the assumption there was upward mobility for you away from the retail floor.  In that case you need to, at some point, re-evaluate your career path.  You clearly haven’t been happy with the raises, and I don’t blame you; 24, or 54, cents an hour doesn’t enhance a person’s life.

    I went through a re-evaluation in my career and here’s how that went.  I have a high school education, self-taught in electronics and programming and technical writing.  After six years in a small startup run by a Harvard MBA, I felt I was doing work far above my remuneration.  So I went to him and I stated my case.  I told him that I felt I was grossly underpaid, that I’d leave it to him to decide if he agreed, but if he decides I’m not underpaid, then that places the decision back in my hands.  And then I quietly reminded him that I know very well how-to make decisions.  Two days later I got the biggest raise you can imagine, plus stock options.  I remained with the company and a few years later he and I went on to found another software company together.  

    Our lives are the result of our circumstances combined with how we react to them.  Don’t wait 15 years to tell your story on a message board; step up and take a swing at the fences, but be prepared to move on if others have a different opinion of your worth.  
    dewmemike1libertymattersmagman1979kiltedgreenfastasleepDetnatorDogpersonstompyJWSC
  • Reply 26 of 104
    dewmedewme Posts: 4,185member
    I’d imagine that anyone working in retail these days would have a certain number of employees who echo everything these 16 Apple Store workers are saying. I’ve seen the way that entitled customers treat retail employees and it’s only gotten worse since the pandemic brought out the worst in too many. 

    I know it won’t make them feel any better, but the situation with food service and hospitality workers is a couple orders of magnitude worse. Many of these workers, especially waitstaff make much less than minimum wage (legally) because their tips are expected to supplement their compensation. Guess who doesn’t get a tip when some a-hole takes a lemming-like political stand against wearing a mask in the waiting area of the restaurant? Guess who doesn’t get paid or tipped when restaurants switch over to take-out-only orders?

    No, it’s not about finding someone who has it much worse off than you when it comes to airing your grievances. But you should at least keep it in mind when you realize that many people listening to your complaints are in far worse situations and perhaps less sympathetic to your cause, especially when nobody is standing up for them or making a big deal about it like they are for these 16 current and former Apple employees.
    radarthekatfastasleep
  • Reply 27 of 104
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 2,652member
    georgie01 said:
    This attitude of ‘I deserve better’ is literally ruining our societies. I’m not saying they do or don’t deserve better, I don’t know. What I do know is that ungratefulness, jealousy, and entitled attitudes lead to things falling apart. Not building things up.

    It’s not even that long ago that people were grateful for their jobs, even if they weren’t ideal. Working is a privilege, but our culture looks at how other people have it better or just that we think we deserve better. Most people don’t understand that attitude breaks down the culture. A lack of appreciation ruins everything.
    There's no way I'd call working a privilege. Being born so rich that you never need to work -- *that's* a privilege. 

    For most folks, work is a necessity. 

    For all able-bodied folks, even those who don't necessarily need to work, work is a *responsibility*. We should all work, which is to say, we should all exert effort to make a positive/productive contribution to ourselves, our families, our civilization. 
    dewmeforegoneconclusionelijahgkiltedgreen12StrangersDogpersonmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 28 of 104
    Having worked in retail 12 years ago, I can tell you it's always been a royal shit show of disrespectful, self-important, self-absorbed assholes who come in on an HOURLY basis sometimes, and working retail requires a VERY thick skin, of which MANY people these days just don't have for various reasons, and the pandemic just amplified this 1000x over, as people are routinely losing their shit every day more and more.
    I left retail 15 years ago, mainly because of the disrespectful people. Nowadays I work in the service industry, every once in a blue moon, I’ll get a nasty customer, and when that happens I just walk out, I don’t have the time or patience for that behavior anymore. 
    magman1979kiltedgreenDogperson
  • Reply 29 of 104
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 2,652member
    The main story here, I think, is that working retail really sucks. 

    The fact that there seems nearly universal agreement that Apple retail (and support) employees are nicer, smarter, and more effective than retail and support staff at other firms suggests that Apple must be doing *something* right and better than other employers in this space. Ideally Apple would do better, and I think it's reasonable for people inside and outside Apple to push Apple to do better. But the bigger issue is how we have these jobs in our society in which people are treated really very poorly, both by their bosses and their customers. There needs to be a bigger penalty for being a jerk. 


    mike1radarthekatcoastalgatheringDogpersonmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 30 of 104
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 9,989member
    Apple employees are oppressed, Amazon employees are oppressed, Google employees are oppressed, everybody is oppressed by their employer. Yeah, right. Everyone wants to sit on their ass and collect a paycheck. Whining crybabies who don't want to work in the first place. I spent 34 years with the world’s largest telecommunications company and was a member of a union. Everyone knew about the ‘regulars’ who were always figuring out how to get on disability, spend the day without doing anything unless they had to, and bitching about the company, their boss, their job. And we made over $35/hr with Cadillac benefits. Some made $100K on overtime, and they STILL bitched and whined about how bad it was. The bosses knew who they were but could do nothing because of the union. When the shit hit the fan the bosses also knew who to send, knowing the job would get done, the customer’s circuit fixed. And it wasn’t those types.

    The media, being who it is and what its motives are, decided to start promoting this narrative of oppressed employees, likely a small minority. Bottom line? Some people understand they have a commitment to work for their pay. Others want to do just enough to get that paycheck.
    edited December 2021 mike1dewmeRonnnieOmagman1979macxpressradarthekatikirthe1maximus
  • Reply 31 of 104
    lkrupp said:
    Apple employees are oppressed, Amazon employees are oppressed, Google employees are oppressed, everybody is oppressed by their employer. 
    The employers all act like they're oppressed as well. Complaints about taxes. Complaints about regulations. CEO's always talking about how they need "certainty" in order for the business to succeed. Always wanting to be first in line for subsidies and how government needs to be "pro business" and not make companies have to shoulder the same things that the average consumer does. 
    blastdoorkiltedgreenlkruppRudeBoyRudyDogperson
  • Reply 32 of 104
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,092member
    darkvader said:
    Always remember that 'Genius' you think is doing such a great job repairing your computer, so much better than a third-party repair shop could possibly do, is actually working for about $13/hour.  Apple does not pay store employees a living wage.
    What you posted is complete bullshit. 

    The people who actually perform repairs at an Apple Store start at $20 per hour, not $13. 

    Whether that’s fair or not is a different discussion, but you need to educate yourself before throwing up absurd nonsense. 

    radarthekatfastasleepDogpersonanonconformist
  • Reply 33 of 104
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,092member
    sully54 said:
    As someone who currently works at an apple store, I can confirm that it’s pretty much a sh!t show each shift I work, and I’ve been with apple over 10 years. And it’s not just coming from Apple. Customers are aggressive and rude. So to get it from both sides, it’s demoralizing. 
    Wow must really suck if you stuck it out 10 years. 
    mike1get seriousdewmeradarthekatanonconformist
  • Reply 34 of 104
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,589member
    georgie01 said:
    This attitude of ‘I deserve better’ is literally ruining our societies. I’m not saying they do or don’t deserve better, I don’t know. What I do know is that ungratefulness, jealousy, and entitled attitudes lead to things falling apart. Not building things up.

    It’s not even that long ago that people were grateful for their jobs, even if they weren’t ideal. Working is a privilege, but our culture looks at how other people have it better or just that we think we deserve better. Most people don’t understand that attitude breaks down the culture. A lack of appreciation ruins everything.
    So what you're saying is retail workers should suck it up and take the daily abuse they're subjected to because it's a job. You think people don't deserve better than to be abused? Do you work in retail? You realise the jobs market has always been based on "I deserve better", which is why people move to higher paying/better jobs. Otherwise everyone would stick with whatever job they first got straight out of school. There are workers that take the piss - but equally there are employers that take the piss. Claiming "I deserve better" is ruining societies is complete horse shit.
    12Strangersmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 35 of 104
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,589member
    Until you’ve worked in Apple retail you have no idea what the day to day looks like. 
    14 years and I have had many years that I loved my job..I would not of stayed so long if I hadn’t. 
    You meet amazing people that are so intelligent and creative. Life long friendships. Both co-workers and customers. The customers are part of our communities. The products are amazing!  You are allowed to bring your unique and diverse best self to work everyday. 
    Until it all changes…like everything good it comes to an end. 
    If the pandemic didn’t teach most of us that life is short, who wants to slave in the retail stores so Tim Cook can build is trillion dollar dreams! 
    The hours are tough! Everyday you work different  shifts, no set schedule! Your availability has to be open. Your life is not your own. No time for your family on the weekends or evenings, No seniority!  The environment is loud and intense, try standing in those “special”floors for 8 hours a day. 
    Getting yelled at by a different customer then the  pre pandemic customer. Cause the community customers are now far and few between. 
    Being told good job on your time management, now take on another customer please, now working with 2-3 customers at the same time in the genus bar. Yearly performance review for the last 12 years has been . 24 cent increase!!! 
    At a Meets expectations .54 cent increase at a Exceeds expectations! 
    The story can go on and on…but until you do it you’ll never understand what a underpaid tough job it is.  
    I am grateful for many things, it’s just not an easy job anymore. Now that I am an older employee, I feel I have no job protection and it’s harder then ever, I don’t deserve to just have to walk away and “find another job” this was my career, I have gave it everything, sacrificed my family times to build this career . Now at 55 I can look and see it wasn’t worth it. 
    Post pandemic has opened my eyes to life is too short to give it all up to  

    Assuming it was reasonably well paid when you took the job around 12 years ago when Jobs was in charge, but have been subjected to a measly pay increase despite exploding profits at Apple, proves that Cook is all about profit for himself and his top team. He doesn't care about anything other than maximum profit and shareholder value, if he did he'd give above inflation pay rises which by your account, he is not.

    Unfortunately I can't say I'm surprised. Again proves that all of Cook's "progressive" pro diversity and pro opportunity policies are just for marketing. He doesn't genuinely care about employees, they're just assets to make him more cash. Apple seriously needs a clear out at the top. 
    12Strangers
  • Reply 36 of 104
    "[Apple says] our soul is our people but it really didn't feel like that to me," said one a former employee.
    "Corporate makes decisions based on what they think will work in the stores without talking to people who work in the stores," said another.
    "There's never positive intent assumed," said one current employee of how Apple regards the surveys it sends customers about its staff. "It always feels like you're a kid getting in trouble and you're making an excuse."

    I worked at Apple Retail years ago.  I can confirm this is exactly how it is.  Employee well being is not prioritized.  Scheduling happened for what was best for customer availability with no regard for the employees' lives.  Apple Retail is run with profits and customers first, employees last.  I got out as fast as something better turned up.  Apple Retail might be Apple, but no one with any sense makes a career of it.  It is retail.  It is for the low skilled youth getting on that first rug of the economic ladder.

  • Reply 37 of 104
    Apple retail is not easy by any stretch. The product knowledge piece alone has ballooned in the past 15 years from 8 product and service lines to over 20 lines with another 20 sub categories. Then you need to know  a myriad of carrier plans, financing plans and trade options. That's the sales side. Technicians just had iPods and Macs not that long ago. In fact "relationship" repair was the primary task of the 'Genius' bar back when. 
    I've been a part of every roll in the store in my tenure, save for management - been there done that, not worth it to me. That said I've seen Apple Retail grow from 100 stores to over 500 stores world wide. Head counts in stores  have quintupled. Training has varied from 3 days and you're on the floor, to two weeks and weeks of mentoring. Apple Store customer experience used to compete with Computer City, Best Buy and carrier stores, they still do. But now they compete with the expectations Apple created from past visits. A tough and ever higher bar customers reset every day.
    I could go on but few are still reading this... Apple is a great way station for those young people to learn business and customer skills. As a lifetime career choice, not so much. Sure there are paths to other parts of Apple, but few realize there are more Apple retail employees than all of the rest of Apple. The stock options and benefits are wonderful. But after 5 years of the Genius Bar there are many companies that will take on that experience for more pay and less pressure. Just remember this as much as you think you won't miss the customers - you will. They are the greatest (except for those that aren't)
    libertymattersdewmeradarthekatfastasleepcoastalgatheringDogpersonmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 38 of 104
    Until you’ve worked in Apple retail you have no idea what the day to day looks like. 
    14 years and I have had many years that I loved my job..I would not of stayed so long if I hadn’t. 
    You meet amazing people that are so intelligent and creative. Life long friendships. Both co-workers and customers. The customers are part of our communities. The products are amazing!  You are allowed to bring your unique and diverse best self to work everyday. 
    Until it all changes…like everything good it comes to an end. 

    The story can go on and on…but until you do it you’ll never understand what a underpaid tough job it is.  
    I am grateful for many things, it’s just not an easy job anymore. Now that I am an older employee, I feel I have no job protection and it’s harder then ever, I don’t deserve to just have to walk away and “find another job” this was my career, I have gave it everything, sacrificed my family times to build this career . Now at 55 I can look and see it wasn’t worth it. 
    Post pandemic has opened my eyes to life is too short to give it all up to  

    Well done friend. Thank you for your service. I hope you participated fully in Employee Stock Purchase Plan and 401k because if you did you are easily a millionaire. 
    radarthekatDogperson
  • Reply 39 of 104
    To the Apple employees who have posted here, help me understand something: Why do you stay? Some of you for a decade or longer. To take your stories at face value, it's terrible pay, abusive conditions/management/customers, plus long and unpredictable hours with no opportunity for advancement. Since the pay is so awful, you could literally go anywhere and probably do better than you're doing now... not to mention escaping the abuse... and we are in the midst of the greatest labor shortage that I've seen in my lifetime, so it's not as if a ton of jobs aren't out there. There is a massive disconnect here between the abuse and low pay being claimed and people staying in their jobs, nonetheless, despite the opportunities to leave never being better than they are now. 

    To AppleInsider: is the line between conditions at the Apple Store and Mark's tragic suicide as direct and as "cause and effect" as you make it out to be in this article? I don't know the specifics, so I can't say, but if I were an Apple attorney, I'd certainly be looking into the details and the possibility of a defamation suit against AI if the way you have positioned this isn't true. And how is it that the employee who claims, on the one hand, that complaints against Mark's manager were "ignored" ALSO claims to have been part of SIX investigations into complaints against that manager. I'm assuming the outcomes of those investigations were not what this employee wanted, but you can't claim that the complaints were ignored. 
    edited December 2021 dewmeradarthekatanonconformist
  • Reply 40 of 104
    Until you’ve worked in Apple retail you have no idea what the day to day looks like. 
    14 years and I have had many years that I loved my job..I would not of stayed so long if I hadn’t. 
    You meet amazing people that are so intelligent and creative. Life long friendships. Both co-workers and customers. The customers are part of our communities. The products are amazing!  You are allowed to bring your unique and diverse best self to work everyday. 
    Until it all changes…like everything good it comes to an end. 
    If the pandemic didn’t teach most of us that life is short, who wants to slave in the retail stores so Tim Cook can build is trillion dollar dreams! 
    The hours are tough! Everyday you work different  shifts, no set schedule! Your availability has to be open. Your life is not your own. No time for your family on the weekends or evenings, No seniority!  The environment is loud and intense, try standing in those “special”floors for 8 hours a day. 
    Getting yelled at by a different customer then the  pre pandemic customer. Cause the community customers are now far and few between. 
    Being told good job on your time management, now take on another customer please, now working with 2-3 customers at the same time in the genus bar. Yearly performance review for the last 12 years has been . 24 cent increase!!! 
    At a Meets expectations .54 cent increase at a Exceeds expectations! 
    The story can go on and on…but until you do it you’ll never understand what a underpaid tough job it is.  
    I am grateful for many things, it’s just not an easy job anymore. Now that I am an older employee, I feel I have no job protection and it’s harder then ever, I don’t deserve to just have to walk away and “find another job” this was my career, I have gave it everything, sacrificed my family times to build this career . Now at 55 I can look and see it wasn’t worth it. 
    Post pandemic has opened my eyes to life is too short to give it all up to  

    I use to work Apple Retail so I empathize.  There is nothing you can do about that 14 year waste.  Don't give into the Sunk Cost fallacy.  https://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Sunk_cost#Loss_aversion_and_the_sunk_cost_fallacy

    Get a new skill that is in demand with low supply, ideally that you like that makes a difference.  You'll command a high wage.  At 55 learning a new skill will be tough, but it will be even harder at 60.  Do it quickly.  Start socking the majority of your high wage into an IRA.  If you act quickly enough you can still retire reasonably well by 65-70.  More importantly that this, goto church and ask Jesus Christ to be your Savior.  Follow him and his ways.  What good is retirement without eternal life?  Only Jesus can provide that.
Sign In or Register to comment.