Apple hourly workers feel helpless under punishing pressure & mistreatment

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 104
    Anilu_777 said:
    The sad thing is the harassment they get on a daily basis. And they’re still good-natured and kind. Every Apple employee I have dealt with either on the phone or in a store have been pleasant, kind, patient and goes over the top to make sure I’m satisfied and actually happy with my product or service. Special shout-out to Fairview Mall in Toronto. 
    Another shoutout to Fairview Mall, just bought an iPhone 13 mini there and had my 13" MacBook Pro repaired under AppleCare. 100% satisfied.
    get serious
  • Reply 62 of 104
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,034member
    sdw2001 said:
    Apple must stop the bs and put in practice what it preaches. I have been a long-time customer of Apple (Mac's, IPads, IPhones, IPods, Airpods, etc, etc, etc.) for myself and every member of my family and I must say that I was thoughghly upset when I read about how Apple is treating its front-line employees. This is how American capitalism has run amok and failed the very large majority of citizens: the obscene enrichment of a very few to the detriment of the rest. This is outrageous in light of Cook, Federici & al pocketing their hundreds of $Millions in remuneration and stock options on the back of their front-line employees. This must stop or else....
    Apple doesn't have to do anything.  And your comments on capitalism are complete gaslighting nonsense.  American capitalism hasn't failed even a plurality of citizens.  It has been the system responsible for lifting more people out of abject poverty than anytime in the history of the planet.  Moreover, despite wails of "income inequality," there is no evidence that a small group of ultra-wealthy people are hoarding money to the detriment of others.  Sure, top executive pay has risen exponentially compared to middle and lower level wages.  But just do the math.  Tim Cook made about $15 million in total compensation last year.  If he gave up every penny to the approximately 30,000 Apple Retail employees in the U.S., it would translate to $500 per worker.  Well guess what? Apple gave them $1000 bonuses.  

    Or else? I'm sure Apple is quaking in their boots.  
    Tim Cook is only one man out of many executives, and you've chosen a particular year that he wasn't awarded any stock options.  Retail staff aren't given stock options any year.
  • Reply 63 of 104
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 9,989member
    So to all the haters here who have been lambasting Apple and American Capitalism , WHAT DO YOU PLAN TO DO ABOUT IT? Or are you, as I suspect, sniveling, anonymous cowards who post in forums but will continue to buy and use Apple products, even though you claim slave labor is used to produce them. Government isn’t going to fix what you think is wrong, only YOU can do that by withholding your wallet. Money talks and bullshit walks.

    So let’s have a show of hands. How many are willing to stop buying anything from Apple until they pay their employees what you determine to be a “living wage”? Are you the “bullshit walks” crowd or the “money talks” crowd. If you don’t stop buying Apple products you ARE the problem and should just shut your mouth.
    dewmeanonconformistmike1
  • Reply 64 of 104
    georgie01 said:
    This attitude of ‘I deserve better’ is literally ruining our societies. I’m not saying they do or don’t deserve better, I don’t know. What I do know is that ungratefulness, jealousy, and entitled attitudes lead to things falling apart. Not building things up.

    It’s not even that long ago that people were grateful for their jobs, even if they weren’t ideal. Working is a privilege, but our culture looks at how other people have it better or just that we think we deserve better. Most people don’t understand that attitude breaks down the culture. A lack of appreciation ruins everything.
    OK Boomer
    get serious12Strangers
  • Reply 65 of 104
    My son worked at an Apple Store ( and Nordstroms and REI).  He said working at Apple was demanding work, but no worse that other retail jobs. I doubt Apple treats it's employees worse than anyone else, and probably better. People love to complain.
    coastalgatheringdewme
  • Reply 66 of 104
    lkrupp said:
    So to all the haters here who have been lambasting Apple and American Capitalism , WHAT DO YOU PLAN TO DO ABOUT IT? Or are you, as I suspect, sniveling, anonymous cowards who post in forums but will continue to buy and use Apple products, even though you claim slave labor is used to produce them. Government isn’t going to fix what you think is wrong, only YOU can do that by withholding your wallet. Money talks and bullshit walks.

    So let’s have a show of hands. How many are willing to stop buying anything from Apple until they pay their employees what you determine to be a “living wage”? Are you the “bullshit walks” crowd or the “money talks” crowd. If you don’t stop buying Apple products you ARE the problem and should just shut your mouth.
    Always such a ray of sunshine around here!
    elijahglkruppDogperson
  • Reply 67 of 104
    I’m sure there are tough working conditions but working in a nice Apple store compared to some third world countries where they pick crop all day by hand is a very different scenario, oh and don’t forget factory workers who make the product.
    This generation doesn’t know how good they have it. #firstworldproblems
    dewmeanonconformist
  • Reply 68 of 104
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 9,989member
    lkrupp said:
    So to all the haters here who have been lambasting Apple and American Capitalism , WHAT DO YOU PLAN TO DO ABOUT IT? Or are you, as I suspect, sniveling, anonymous cowards who post in forums but will continue to buy and use Apple products, even though you claim slave labor is used to produce them. Government isn’t going to fix what you think is wrong, only YOU can do that by withholding your wallet. Money talks and bullshit walks.

    So let’s have a show of hands. How many are willing to stop buying anything from Apple until they pay their employees what you determine to be a “living wage”? Are you the “bullshit walks” crowd or the “money talks” crowd. If you don’t stop buying Apple products you ARE the problem and should just shut your mouth.
    Always such a ray of sunshine around here!
    Truth hurts, right?
    mike1
  • Reply 69 of 104
    phredphred Posts: 18member
     I am not an Apple employee, but I also have poor experience with Apple when calling chat line.Many employees are incompetent,lazy, sending links instead of explaining.Example: when asked difference between two keyboards,instead of answering mentioned features, and said there was no difference.Finally after repeated requests they said difference was only one had touch ID. They often take too long to find an answer, and keep saying thanks for waiting.
  • Reply 70 of 104
    Unfortunately this can be said about ANY company in the Fortune 500. This issue is NOT specific to Apple. It’s just how corporations work. Thoughts to their family though it’s unimaginable to lose someone to suicide. But until “corporate” culture changes, nothing will change. It’s a machine. We are just the cogs in the wheel. Why people still can even fathom this huge companies “care” about the workers is beyond me. They are created to sell products not make employees feel good. This article could be replaced with any other large corporation. 
    coastalgatheringdewme12Strangersmaximara
  • Reply 71 of 104
    This article has seriously affected the way I view Apple. I am re-evaluating my future purchases of Apple products and have canceled the orders that I had placed. It’s not like Apple will even notice the loss of my future purchases(15k/year) but I can’t spend money or support in any way, a business that doesn’t care about it’s employees that are in the trenches.
  • Reply 72 of 104
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,041member
    Businesses exist to make profit.  Everything else is secondary.  This is not a praise or condemnation but rather a statement of fact. It is capitalism.  And whether one likes Capitalism or not, it is largely the system used in the USA, where most of you reside.  Employees are treated in part in accordance with the law, but also in part from the benevolence, or lack therefore, of the company which hires them.  If prices are raised too high to pay a living wage, then such could negatively impact sales, reduce profits, and call the entire business into question.  

    The problem with rent (living cost) is specific to California state, so if the prices of Apple products sold in California state were to rise in accordance with the cost of living there, but not have an equivalent rise in other states where the cost of living is lower, then fiscally-minded consumers would be inclined to buy from those other lower cost states instead, thereby resulting in fewer visitors to Apple stores in CA.

    For this reason, Apple alone cannot resolve high rent prices in CA state, unless it diversifies into real estate and housing and then rents to home seekers for low prices, but then you'd have Big Brother jumping in yet again to cry about anti-trust.

    The entire conversation about overpriced rent in CA, and what constitutes a living wage, and whether wages along should be raised to compensate for rising living expenses (instead of an alternative solution that seeks to lower price inflation, keep rent costs in check, or even reduce living costs overall) is a debate that transcends Apple.  Apple is simply caught up in a much bigger problem that it cannot solve by itself, despite being one of the biggest corporations around.  All we are doing in this forum right now is discussing how we think and feel about Apple's PR within the confines of this complex topic.  It superficially "looks better" if Apple pays CA employees more in light of their higher rent, and may even make some employees feel better for a few months, but increasing wages in CA would only drive living costs up further, and soon people would be back to complaining about Apple yet again at that point.  All the while, prices of Apple products would need to be increased to compensate for higher wages, leading to numerous other problems in the marketplace.

    This is not an argument against higher wages.  This is an explanation about what drives up the cost of living.  Higher wages really do trigger price inflation at some point.  

    The ideal solution, whatever that may be, would be to have wages increase with no matching increase in the cost of living.  (For example, here in Japan, I've paid the same rent for a rented home to my landlord for more than 12 years.) CA state needs wage increases alongside price deflation in order to make the state long-term viable for most people to live.  Anything short of that will only increase homelessness and despair, which is already a huge problem right now in CA.  It's no wonder many people I know from my home state of CA have now moved to Texas (which has no income tax and a lower cost of living) and seem to be enjoying that decision tremendously.


    maximara
  • Reply 73 of 104
    sdw2001 said:
    After reading The Verge's article, I went from being annoyed to infuriated.  

    The article is hit piece.  It takes 16 employees and paints them as representative of thousands.  Then it has stuff like this:  

    Part of the issue is pay. Apple’s retail employees make on average between $19 and $25 an hour in the United States, according to Glassdoor. That’s good for the retail industry, but can be grating for employees who want to build a career at the tech giant. Some say that after staying at the company for six years, they’re making less than $21 an hour. 

    Go back...wait.   It's good for retail. Just stop there.  $21 an hour is 40 grand a year.  You don't like it? Pick another field. There are 10 million job openings in the U.S. and only 7m looking for work.  It shouldn't be hard.  You can't live on 40k a year? Great, that's just for a 40 hour week.  Maybe work overtime or...gasp....get a second job.  

    Here's another quote that is representative of the entitlement of many young workers today:  

    "I think it feels more like they don't want to get sued for not offering hazard pay after making some of us work in public in the last year," one source told The Verge.

    JFC.  First, no one "made" you "work in public."  You chose to keep working, just like cops, firefighters, nurses, doctors and grocery store employees.  Apple didn't owe you any "hazard pay," but they gave it to you anyway.  

    Want to bring out issues with bad management? That's fine.  Retail is notorious for having that.  But this attitude of being some kind of indentured servant class is wearing thin.  

    THIS!!!! 
    DnykjpRfC6fnBsdewme
  • Reply 74 of 104
    NYC362 said:
    I'm relatively new to retail, working at Apple for just over two years.  No, it is not the easiest of jobs, but it could be so much worse.   

    Maybe I'm really lucky.  My management at my store has been great to me and encouraging of others.  Sure, there are some people who whine about everything, but I'm convinced they'd do that anywhere.  Customers here in NYC come from all over the globe.  The overwhelming majority are nice, polite, and appreciative of our efforts.

    During the pandemic, the company not only didn't lay anyone off, but they kept on seasonals who were supposed to leave at the end of March 2020.  We were paid throughout the shut down and many of us- including myself- had the chance to work at home doing phone support for sales, orders, and trouble shooting.

    We've been provided with masks (designed by the company and so popular, customers constantly ask if we sell them), with COVID tests- first it was PCR tests FedEx'ed to our homes.  I had results in generally 48-60 hours. Now, it is rapid tests that we do on the first day of our work week and we've been told to add 20 minutes to our clocked in time for that test.  We get discounts on merchandise.  We get stock at 15% off the market price at the beginning or end of a purchase period- which ever is lower.  (On January 31, many employees will be buying shares at about $123 a piece.). I get one sick hour for every 30 hours I work- so around 4 per month.  Have good attendance like me, and it piles up pretty quickly. 

    There are many chances to move within the company.  Career experiences let you try other positions.  In my short time, I've seen dozens of retail employees move up the at ladder within the store or to business sales or to corporate and development roles.

    Is it perfect?  No.  We are on our feet all day.  We are have to deal with survey results that make you want to hunt the customer down and find out what they were thinking.  (Like the review a colleague of mine received- a 2 [out of 5] because he didn't smile.  Obviously, customer idiot didn't realize we can't see smiles through masks.).  We are always conscious of metrics like connected phones, AppleCare+ sales, business intros, etc.    In store zoning could be better.  Standing "On Point"- welcoming customers into a store and finding out what they are there for- for over two hours at times is mind numbing.  I've said several times, that zoning should never be more than 90 minutes, unless someone wants to be there. 

    But does anyone think that any other large retail company is any different?   I may be new to retail but my wife worked in high end retail for over 30 years, I knew exactly what to expect, and overall, I haven't had many issues to gripe about at all.

    Finally, to the poster who claims the average Apple store employee is making $13 an hour.  I'd like to know where they got that info.   Salary does differ by market.  Here in NYC, I started at $20 an hour two years ago.  A starting Specialist here makes a bit more than that now.   I've been told that a neighboring market in New Jersey, the pay is about a dollar an hour less.  No idea if that is actually so though.  In any event, I really doubt anyone at Apple is making just $13 an hour.

    Apple isn't perfect, but if you do your job it is pretty damn good.  

    Remember, the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence.  The problem is, everyone is looking at a green fence. 

    All these Apple employees posting here. You all signed a NDA about posting on forums like this and especially this kind of information. NYC362 should be fired for this post. 
  • Reply 75 of 104
    KTR said:
    darkvader said:
    Always remember that 'Genius' you think is doing such a great job repairing your computer, so much better than a third-party repair shop could possibly do, is actually working for about $13/hour.  Apple does not pay store employees a living wage.
    $13/hr?  What state is that? Here in NYC, the minimum wage is $15/hr.  I just applied to one of the NYC stores.  I doubt they will call me lol

    Well if that is the job you hope for, I will
    wish you very good luck with that. 
  • Reply 76 of 104
    sully54 said:
    georgie01 said:
    This attitude of ‘I deserve better’ is literally ruining our societies. I’m not saying they do or don’t deserve better, I don’t know. What I do know is that ungratefulness, jealousy, and entitled attitudes lead to things falling apart. Not building things up.

    It’s not even that long ago that people were grateful for their jobs, even if they weren’t ideal. Working is a privilege, but our culture looks at how other people have it better or just that we think we deserve better. Most people don’t understand that attitude breaks down the culture. A lack of appreciation ruins everything.
    I’m grateful that I have a job to go to. But when a customer berates me because I can’t do a return on an Apple Pencil that has clearly been damaged, or when a customer spits in my coworker’s face simply because he was reminded to keep his mask on in the store, then it becomes a bit harder to wake up in the morning to go to a job where those things are in the realm of possibility. 

    If “deserving better” means being treated with a modicum of human decency, then yeah, we deserve better.  
    That is called “working with the public” you think what you deal with is bad work for Walmart or better yet do what I did for the last almost 6 years until I was diagnosed terminal, that is drive a city bus. A lot of people feel they are entitled to treat a worker as a POS which only shows their immaturity and their overall grasp of life. 
  • Reply 77 of 104
    NYC362 said:
    I'm relatively new to retail, working at Apple for just over two years.  No, it is not the easiest of jobs, but it could be so much worse.   

    Maybe I'm really lucky.  My management at my store has been great to me and encouraging of others.  Sure, there are some people who whine about everything, but I'm convinced they'd do that anywhere.  Customers here in NYC come from all over the globe.  The overwhelming majority are nice, polite, and appreciative of our efforts.

    During the pandemic, the company not only didn't lay anyone off, but they kept on seasonals who were supposed to leave at the end of March 2020.  We were paid throughout the shut down and many of us- including myself- had the chance to work at home doing phone support for sales, orders, and trouble shooting.

    We've been provided with masks (designed by the company and so popular, customers constantly ask if we sell them), with COVID tests- first it was PCR tests FedEx'ed to our homes.  I had results in generally 48-60 hours. Now, it is rapid tests that we do on the first day of our work week and we've been told to add 20 minutes to our clocked in time for that test.  We get discounts on merchandise.  We get stock at 15% off the market price at the beginning or end of a purchase period- which ever is lower.  (On January 31, many employees will be buying shares at about $123 a piece.). I get one sick hour for every 30 hours I work- so around 4 per month.  Have good attendance like me, and it piles up pretty quickly. 

    There are many chances to move within the company.  Career experiences let you try other positions.  In my short time, I've seen dozens of retail employees move up the at ladder within the store or to business sales or to corporate and development roles.

    Is it perfect?  No.  We are on our feet all day.  We are have to deal with survey results that make you want to hunt the customer down and find out what they were thinking.  (Like the review a colleague of mine received- a 2 [out of 5] because he didn't smile.  Obviously, customer idiot didn't realize we can't see smiles through masks.).  We are always conscious of metrics like connected phones, AppleCare+ sales, business intros, etc.    In store zoning could be better.  Standing "On Point"- welcoming customers into a store and finding out what they are there for- for over two hours at times is mind numbing.  I've said several times, that zoning should never be more than 90 minutes, unless someone wants to be there. 

    But does anyone think that any other large retail company is any different?   I may be new to retail but my wife worked in high end retail for over 30 years, I knew exactly what to expect, and overall, I haven't had many issues to gripe about at all.

    Finally, to the poster who claims the average Apple store employee is making $13 an hour.  I'd like to know where they got that info.   Salary does differ by market.  Here in NYC, I started at $20 an hour two years ago.  A starting Specialist here makes a bit more than that now.   I've been told that a neighboring market in New Jersey, the pay is about a dollar an hour less.  No idea if that is actually so though.  In any event, I really doubt anyone at Apple is making just $13 an hour.

    Apple isn't perfect, but if you do your job it is pretty damn good.  

    Remember, the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence.  The problem is, everyone is looking at a green fence. 

    All these Apple employees posting here. You all signed a NDA about posting on forums like this and especially this kind of information. NYC362 should be fired for this post. 
    Exactly! If they think that a screen name is going to be enough to hide their anonymity they are going to be sadly mistaken. I have never had to sign a NDA in my life but I have been definitely warned as to what will happen if I had posted any company business on any social media form. I took that very seriously and never did because it would be my job if I did. I will never understand why people willing sign a NDA they know what they are making when they accept the position. I made $31.75 at my last job until I was diagnosed terminal. If it was just me, is a fairly decent wage to make it as long as you can get 20 hours or more of overtime a week otherwise not so much. I would think jobs like Apple retail or even fast food for high schoolers should never be considered as a job you will retire from in 50 years. So it’s just the fraction of a handful of workers making noise. 
  • Reply 78 of 104
    zone said:
    Lots of hate here coming from people who haven't done the job? Also as a former retail employee I can confirm for sure that it did and does suck big time. Working retail is not easy and most here putting down Apple employee couldn't do the job or even get this job as terrible as it can be (who would want it). Managers due suck big time and the worse thing is Apple tries to push the cool aid big time. Lots of people drink it but I wish they would just be honest with people. That's the thing that really makes this bad is the promise is not reality. This is the real problem... working at a fast food place most people don't think its a good job with fair pay and fair treatment. Working for Apple they like to mask the reality and it pisses people off when they don't get the prize. Its all smoke and mirrors...

    Please appreciate your retail and support employees as most of them are working above their pay grade. They try to make the best of the situation and work hard for all the Apple fans.

    However Apple does have great benefits and for the old timers like me who were smart left working at the mall with over a million in stock. Stock purchase plan was insane and buying shares for $1.10 adds up quick. Splits and more splits and constant share price increase is amazing. IMO you will see Apple at $400 a share in 5 years or less with no split. Big thing are coming and it's not going to stop for awhile. My advise is buy as many shares and you can and max out your 401K like I did. You still have a chance to get to the millionaire+ mall club!

    That is great that you have been able to buy stock and prepare for your future. I haven’t it the million dollar mark but have been close like as high as $972 thousand and my wife and I have over 5000 shares, maybe by now close to 5020 as all of our dividends are reinvested. Now I will not be able to see the fruit of my savings but after I am gone in 6 months to a year, my wife and our daughter will be taken care of after I’m gone. 
  • Reply 79 of 104
    sdw2001 said:
    After reading The Verge's article, I went from being annoyed to infuriated.  

    The article is hit piece.  It takes 16 employees and paints them as representative of thousands.  Then it has stuff like this:  

    Part of the issue is pay. Apple’s retail employees make on average between $19 and $25 an hour in the United States, according to Glassdoor. That’s good for the retail industry, but can be grating for employees who want to build a career at the tech giant. Some say that after staying at the company for six years, they’re making less than $21 an hour. 

    Go back...wait.   It's good for retail. Just stop there.  $21 an hour is 40 grand a year.  You don't like it? Pick another field. There are 10 million job openings in the U.S. and only 7m looking for work.  It shouldn't be hard.  You can't live on 40k a year? Great, that's just for a 40 hour week.  Maybe work overtime or...gasp....get a second job.  

    Here's another quote that is representative of the entitlement of many young workers today:  

    "I think it feels more like they don't want to get sued for not offering hazard pay after making some of us work in public in the last year," one source told The Verge.

    JFC.  First, no one "made" you "work in public."  You chose to keep working, just like cops, firefighters, nurses, doctors and grocery store employees.  Apple didn't owe you any "hazard pay," but they gave it to you anyway.  

    Want to bring out issues with bad management? That's fine.  Retail is notorious for having that.  But this attitude of being some kind of indentured servant class is wearing thin.  

    THIS!!!! 
    Correct I love the idea that employees seem to think that management “has to listen to their suggestions”  I hate that this crap has to be hashed out on a Mac rumors web site. They should be keeping the crap in house and I would assume there is a suggestion box or something similar employees can  make their gripes or issues and resolve without violating their NDA
  • Reply 80 of 104
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,041member
    And as to an earlier to comment which states, "$21 an hour is 40 grand a year," I can only say that I don't really understand why people talk in terms of GROSS salaries which mean nothing.  The only thing that matters is your NET salary.  For truly, it is with that NET salary you have left that you pay your rent, utilities, food, gasoline, insurance, etc.

    Ditto what I said before.  In the state of California, the cost of living is outrageous, and the price of rent goes up the closer you are to Apple headquarters, which again illustrates what I said about money people are paid and how that impacts rent, etc. in the area where they reside.

    Lastly, when people call for others to be fired, such calls are rooted in emotion and not well thought out.  Let's try to be Spock and keep emotions under control.  No need to criticize Apple employees in this discussion.  We can indeed objectively review the problem and consider solutions that do not involve attacks on other people.  

    People who complain they aren't paid enough sometimes have legitimate claims, but at the same time, simply raising their wage is almost never the final solution because the cost of rent, etc. rises as salaries rise in the United States.  As I said earlier, it is only when salaries rise and prices remain the same (or better, go lower) than people start to have a better life.  

    If you are currently being paid well and can afford your home, insurance, rent, etc. be thankful and leave it at that.  No need to chastise others who are having a hard time making ends meet.
    edited December 2021 get serious12Strangerscoastalgatheringmuthuk_vanalingam
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