Apple hourly workers feel helpless under punishing pressure & mistreatment

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 104
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,847member
    darkvader said:
    Always remember that 'Genius' you think is doing such a great job repairing your computer, so much better than a third-party repair shop could possibly do, is actually working for about $13/hour.  Apple does not pay store employees a living wage.
    Care to explain what a "living wage" would be? Who decides it? And why people continue to work for less than that amount?  
    radarthekatanonconformist
  • Reply 42 of 104
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,847member
    After reading The Verge's article, I went from being annoyed to infuriated.  

    The article is hit piece.  It takes 16 employees and paints them as representative of thousands.  Then it has stuff like this:  

    Part of the issue is pay. Apple’s retail employees make on average between $19 and $25 an hour in the United States, according to Glassdoor. That’s good for the retail industry, but can be grating for employees who want to build a career at the tech giant. Some say that after staying at the company for six years, they’re making less than $21 an hour. 

    Go back...wait.   It's good for retail. Just stop there.  $21 an hour is 40 grand a year.  You don't like it? Pick another field. There are 10 million job openings in the U.S. and only 7m looking for work.  It shouldn't be hard.  You can't live on 40k a year? Great, that's just for a 40 hour week.  Maybe work overtime or...gasp....get a second job.  

    Here's another quote that is representative of the entitlement of many young workers today:  

    "I think it feels more like they don't want to get sued for not offering hazard pay after making some of us work in public in the last year," one source told The Verge.

    JFC.  First, no one "made" you "work in public."  You chose to keep working, just like cops, firefighters, nurses, doctors and grocery store employees.  Apple didn't owe you any "hazard pay," but they gave it to you anyway.  

    Want to bring out issues with bad management? That's fine.  Retail is notorious for having that.  But this attitude of being some kind of indentured servant class is wearing thin.  

    dewmeradarthekatRudeBoyRudyget seriousanonconformist
  • Reply 43 of 104
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Steve's (fictional) take on this?


  • Reply 44 of 104
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,448member
    jimh2 said:
    If you do not like a job then find another and quit. It’s not healthy to do something that you hate and it is a waste of a life. Might take some schooling or training to get a better job but make it happen. 
    As always easier than saiid than done.
    You don't like the USA, don't try to fix it and don't complain just move to another country. 
    That's what you are saying, nobody dare shine a spotlight on how mega corporations like Apple could care less about their low paid employees. 
    12Strangers
  • Reply 45 of 104
    Apple must stop the bs and put in practice what it preaches. I have been a long-time customer of Apple (Mac's, IPads, IPhones, IPods, Airpods, etc, etc, etc.) for myself and every member of my family and I must say that I was thoughghly upset when I read about how Apple is treating its front-line employees. This is how American capitalism has run amok and failed the very large majority of citizens: the obscene enrichment of a very few to the detriment of the rest. This is outrageous in light of Cook, Federici & al pocketing their hundreds of $Millions in remuneration and stock options on the back of their front-line employees. This must stop or else....
    edited December 2021 lkruppelijahgDogperson
  • Reply 46 of 104
    darkvader said:
    Always remember that 'Genius' you think is doing such a great job repairing your computer, so much better than a third-party repair shop could possibly do, is actually working for about $13/hour.  Apple does not pay store employees a living wage.
    No one makes 13 hour anymore. 
    get serious
  • Reply 47 of 104
    This is a major reason why I chose not to pursue a career at Apple: It treats different people differently. Apple should show respect for all its workers. It should not treat contractors or store employees with any less respect than its essential software developers and designers. At one facility they had different bathrooms for employees and contractors. Does this remind you of anything? Do contractors have their own water fountains as well?
    elijahg
  • Reply 48 of 104
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,847member
    Apple must stop the bs and put in practice what it preaches. I have been a long-time customer of Apple (Mac's, IPads, IPhones, IPods, Airpods, etc, etc, etc.) for myself and every member of my family and I must say that I was thoughghly upset when I read about how Apple is treating its front-line employees. This is how American capitalism has run amok and failed the very large majority of citizens: the obscene enrichment of a very few to the detriment of the rest. This is outrageous in light of Cook, Federici & al pocketing their hundreds of $Millions in remuneration and stock options on the back of their front-line employees. This must stop or else....
    Apple doesn't have to do anything.  And your comments on capitalism are complete gaslighting nonsense.  American capitalism hasn't failed even a plurality of citizens.  It has been the system responsible for lifting more people out of abject poverty than anytime in the history of the planet.  Moreover, despite wails of "income inequality," there is no evidence that a small group of ultra-wealthy people are hoarding money to the detriment of others.  Sure, top executive pay has risen exponentially compared to middle and lower level wages.  But just do the math.  Tim Cook made about $15 million in total compensation last year.  If he gave up every penny to the approximately 30,000 Apple Retail employees in the U.S., it would translate to $500 per worker.  Well guess what? Apple gave them $1000 bonuses.  

    Or else? I'm sure Apple is quaking in their boots.  
     
    mike1dewmeradarthekatRudeBoyRudyanonconformist
  • Reply 49 of 104
     American capitalism … has been the system responsible for lifting more people out of abject poverty than anytime in the history of the planet”

    What?!

    None so blind as those who will not see.
    elijahgget serious
  • Reply 50 of 104
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,346member
    Apple employs what, hundreds of thousands of retail employees? Yeah obviously it will be easy to find a bunch that will whine and complain. Not sure what is being asked, executive level pay? 

    Also, if it's such a "shitshow", why have you been there 10+ years and have no plans to leave?

    radarthekatGeorgeBMacget seriousanonconformist
  • Reply 51 of 104
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,702member
    I have never worked at an Apple Store so I can't comment on how true this story is, but I seriously hope Apple pays it store staff well. No-one should ever be asked to work for anything less than a decent living wage, ever, and if any employer can afford not to do that Apple is the one. Also, All the people who work in the stores in whatever capacity represents the company at the customer level. As such they should be well taken care of. In my experience Apple Store and helpline staff have always been completely outstanding and I'd feel terrible if they weren't receiving their dues. 
    get seriousmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 52 of 104
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,346member
    This fairy tale story is typical Zoe Schiffer styles. Allegedly a dozen people were interviewed, which even if true would not allow any reliable conclusions about the actual situation. The anecdotes are told in sensational boulewardesque language, and Schiffer doesn't even shy away from gleefully exploiting the fate of a suicide victim. Hearsay gossip alternates with pseudo-causal assertions and crude speculations. Schiffer tries to place the big exposé story about Apple's being an oh-so-awful exploitative company after her crashing bust with #AppleToo, in which her three supposed whistleblowers turned out to be greedy job-jumping severance hunters. With the (for sure unselfish) help of other media scribblers, she might well succeed in collecting some fame again. For example, to promote her book, for which she calls on employees of various companies to break their NDAs and disclose them. Anonymously, of course. This is the new type of journalist. Sneaky, hungry for sensationalism and always looking out for their own advantage.  :/

    You fucking nailed it. Sensational and trash "reporting", drawing conclusions from a dozen people as if that means anything. And those behind the #Appletoo movement were anything but honest, objective, sane people. Their motives were purely selfish and seeking attention and clout, while attempting to publicly tear down Apple's reputation using sensational language and outright lies (APPLE TRIED TO POISON ME!!). 
    radarthekatget seriousmike1
  • Reply 53 of 104
    sdw2001 said:
    After reading The Verge's article, I went from being annoyed to infuriated.  

    The article is hit piece.  It takes 16 employees and paints them as representative of thousands.  Then it has stuff like this:  

    Part of the issue is pay. Apple’s retail employees make on average between $19 and $25 an hour in the United States, according to Glassdoor. That’s good for the retail industry, but can be grating for employees who want to build a career at the tech giant. Some say that after staying at the company for six years, they’re making less than $21 an hour. 

    Go back...wait.   It's good for retail. Just stop there.  $21 an hour is 40 grand a year.  You don't like it? Pick another field. There are 10 million job openings in the U.S. and only 7m looking for work.  It shouldn't be hard.  You can't live on 40k a year? Great, that's just for a 40 hour week.  Maybe work overtime or...gasp....get a second job.  


    Agree completely about it being a hit piece. Let's dive more fully into that sentence you cited: "That's good for the retail industry... (So The Verge confirms THE FACT that Apple actually pays well for retail while giving voice to complaints that they pay poorly, which the Verge knows contradicts the facts.) "...but can be grating for employees who want to build a career..." (What the hell does "can be grating" even mean in this context? They're possibly annoyed or frustrated about the just stated FACT that Apple pays above average for the kind of work they do?)  "Some say that after staying at the company for six years, they’re making less than $21 an hour." (Well here's classic weasel wording. How many is "some?" And just because some "say" it doesn't mean it's true. Has Verge investigated to confirm what "some say"?)
    edited December 2021 sdw2001radarthekatDogpersonget seriousanonconformist
  • Reply 54 of 104
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,917member
    This complaint: “ At one point, employees were sent Apple shirts as a thank you — only to find that the shirts were leftovers from Apple's cancelled WWDC 2020.”

    who cares if it was leftover? It’s free. Were they used clothing? Nope. 
    radarthekatDogperson
  • Reply 55 of 104
    I worked in Apple Retail up until 2012 so things may be quite different now. When I was there, however, we were given what I would call above average pay for retail employees. Most retail employees were making between $8-$12 at the time while we were making between $13-$25 / hr depending on the position and experience. We also got very nice health benefits. I have not found health insurance that good with any other employer since then. I was also given the option of participating in a 401K match program (Apple would match up to 6%) and the option of buying Apple stock at a pretty steep discount each quarter (you could buy the stock at whatever the lowest price had been that quarter regardless of where it had risen to). I also got a pretty generous product discount (25% on one computer per year, 15% twice per year, and 10% on any product, any time).

    Again, I don't know if those benefits still exist for new employees and I should clarify that part time employees were not eligible for all those benefits. That was just for full timers. But what was the same back then is that customers could be assholes. You'd have that almost every day. This issue comes up every few years it feels like with each new generation of retail employees. The stories are terrible. Getting spit in the face or berated by someone because they dropped their iPhone in water sucks. I'm just not sure what anyone would expect Apple to do about that. Any retail job is going to have that kind of nonsense, unfortunately. Not saying it's right. Just saying the company can't really do much to control for that. No company can. All you can do is choose how you will respond to it. I will say that in my experience with the assholes I dealt with, I mostly felt supported by my managers and felt that they were able to find a good balance between addressing customer concerns and supporting me in those situations. 

    The management side of things is a different story but there too I would say that in a company as large as Apple you're bound to get some bad managers. Apple should do what it can to address that and either coach or fire those managers. But to expect that you'd never get a bad manager at Apple is putting the company on a pedestal. When I was there I had three different store managers and I can tell you that I liked 2 out of 3 of them. The 3rd one was why I chose to leave. 

    This article is heavily weighted around the employee who committed suicide and their manager and it's a terrible story. My guess is this is more about a campaign to get that manager fired rather than a story about a toxic environment in the company overall. Maybe that manager should be fired but I don't think their behavior is reflective of all of Apple Retail. 


    radarthekatdewmeDogpersontht
  • Reply 56 of 104
    zonezone Posts: 56member
    Lots of hate here coming from people who haven't done the job? Also as a former retail employee I can confirm for sure that it did and does suck big time. Working retail is not easy and most here putting down Apple employee couldn't do the job or even get this job as terrible as it can be (who would want it). Managers due suck big time and the worse thing is Apple tries to push the cool aid big time. Lots of people drink it but I wish they would just be honest with people. That's the thing that really makes this bad is the promise is not reality. This is the real problem... working at a fast food place most people don't think its a good job with fair pay and fair treatment. Working for Apple they like to mask the reality and it pisses people off when they don't get the prize. Its all smoke and mirrors...

    Please appreciate your retail and support employees as most of them are working above their pay grade. They try to make the best of the situation and work hard for all the Apple fans.

    However Apple does have great benefits and for the old timers like me who were smart left working at the mall with over a million in stock. Stock purchase plan was insane and buying shares for $1.10 adds up quick. Splits and more splits and constant share price increase is amazing. IMO you will see Apple at $400 a share in 5 years or less with no split. Big thing are coming and it's not going to stop for awhile. My advise is buy as many shares and you can and max out your 401K like I did. You still have a chance to get to the millionaire+ mall club!
    edited December 2021 coastalgatheringDnykjpRfC6fnBsDogpersonmaximara
  • Reply 57 of 104
    jcs2305jcs2305 Posts: 1,261member
    sully54 said:
    georgie01 said:
    This attitude of ‘I deserve better’ is literally ruining our societies. I’m not saying they do or don’t deserve better, I don’t know. What I do know is that ungratefulness, jealousy, and entitled attitudes lead to things falling apart. Not building things up.

    It’s not even that long ago that people were grateful for their jobs, even if they weren’t ideal. Working is a privilege, but our culture looks at how other people have it better or just that we think we deserve better. Most people don’t understand that attitude breaks down the culture. A lack of appreciation ruins everything.
    I’m grateful that I have a job to go to. But when a customer berates me because I can’t do a return on an Apple Pencil that has clearly been damaged, or when a customer spits in my coworker’s face simply because he was reminded to keep his mask on in the store, then it becomes a bit harder to wake up in the morning to go to a job where those things are in the realm of possibility. 

    If “deserving better” means being treated with a modicum of human decency, then yeah, we deserve better.  
    I would be in jail for assault if I witnessed a disgusting pig spitting at another person.. job or no job! 

    The despicable shit I have seen people pull in the past couple of years over masks, COVID and insane racist entitlement has take what was left of my patience, and any willingness to accept people's outrageous nonsense. Wow! I am sorry you have to deal with crap like this.. I truly am. 




    radarthekatelijahgcoastalgathering12Strangers
  • Reply 58 of 104
    To me this started with the much hyped, overpaid, angela ahrendts.  One used to get the exclusive attention of the genius during an appointment, now you are in a cluster where you share the attention of the expert.  If you had apple care, the person helping you seemed to have wide latitude to address your problem even replacing the item outside the expiration date by a week or two.  This shopping appointment approach is foolish though i cannot lay that bit of stupidity at her feet.  What on earth does burberry have to do with apple?  Burberry isn’t as successful as Louis Vuitton.  It was always a second tier ‘luxury’ brand.  Bottom line apple isn’t what apple used to be and that is no compliment.  Kudos to those employees with whom I have interacted with that were pleasant, professional and thorough.  Only once did I have to upbraid a snotty jackass that now you tell me makes $13/hour.  With that he couldn’t avoid the merchandise he hawks.
    elijahg
  • Reply 59 of 104
    KBChicagoKBChicago Posts: 21unconfirmed, member
    sully54 said:
    As someone who currently works at an apple store, I can confirm that it’s pretty much a sh!t show each shift I work, and I’ve been with apple over 10 years. And it’s not just coming from Apple. Customers are aggressive and rude. So to get it from both sides, it’s demoralizing. 
    Why stay for ten years if the conditions are so bad?  I'm not asking to challenge you.  I'm just curious about what the upside has been.
    anonconformist
  • Reply 60 of 104
    I'm relatively new to retail, working at Apple for just over two years.  No, it is not the easiest of jobs, but it could be so much worse.   

    Maybe I'm really lucky.  My management at my store has been great to me and encouraging of others.  Sure, there are some people who whine about everything, but I'm convinced they'd do that anywhere.  Customers here in NYC come from all over the globe.  The overwhelming majority are nice, polite, and appreciative of our efforts.

    During the pandemic, the company not only didn't lay anyone off, but they kept on seasonals who were supposed to leave at the end of March 2020.  We were paid throughout the shut down and many of us- including myself- had the chance to work at home doing phone support for sales, orders, and trouble shooting.

    We've been provided with masks (designed by the company and so popular, customers constantly ask if we sell them), with COVID tests- first it was PCR tests FedEx'ed to our homes.  I had results in generally 48-60 hours. Now, it is rapid tests that we do on the first day of our work week and we've been told to add 20 minutes to our clocked in time for that test.  We get discounts on merchandise.  We get stock at 15% off the market price at the beginning or end of a purchase period- which ever is lower.  (On January 31, many employees will be buying shares at about $123 a piece.). I get one sick hour for every 30 hours I work- so around 4 per month.  Have good attendance like me, and it piles up pretty quickly. 

    There are many chances to move within the company.  Career experiences let you try other positions.  In my short time, I've seen dozens of retail employees move up the at ladder within the store or to business sales or to corporate and development roles.

    Is it perfect?  No.  We are on our feet all day.  We are have to deal with survey results that make you want to hunt the customer down and find out what they were thinking.  (Like the review a colleague of mine received- a 2 [out of 5] because he didn't smile.  Obviously, customer idiot didn't realize we can't see smiles through masks.).  We are always conscious of metrics like connected phones, AppleCare+ sales, business intros, etc.    In store zoning could be better.  Standing "On Point"- welcoming customers into a store and finding out what they are there for- for over two hours at times is mind numbing.  I've said several times, that zoning should never be more than 90 minutes, unless someone wants to be there. 

    But does anyone think that any other large retail company is any different?   I may be new to retail but my wife worked in high end retail for over 30 years, I knew exactly what to expect, and overall, I haven't had many issues to gripe about at all.

    Finally, to the poster who claims the average Apple store employee is making $13 an hour.  I'd like to know where they got that info.   Salary does differ by market.  Here in NYC, I started at $20 an hour two years ago.  A starting Specialist here makes a bit more than that now.   I've been told that a neighboring market in New Jersey, the pay is about a dollar an hour less.  No idea if that is actually so though.  In any event, I really doubt anyone at Apple is making just $13 an hour.

    Apple isn't perfect, but if you do your job it is pretty damn good.  

    Remember, the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence.  The problem is, everyone is looking at a green fence. 
    dewmeradarthekatcoastalgatheringDogpersonget seriousmaximaraanonconformistmike1muthuk_vanalingam
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