Apple hourly workers feel helpless under punishing pressure & mistreatment

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 104
    phred said:
     I am not an Apple employee, but I also have poor experience with Apple when calling chat line.Many employees are incompetent,lazy, sending links instead of explaining.Example: when asked difference between two keyboards,instead of answering mentioned features, and said there was no difference.Finally after repeated requests they said difference was only one had touch ID. They often take too long to find an answer, and keep saying thanks for waiting.
    Not been my experience. Recently I was amazed at what Apple call center was willing and able to do for me. Other times I have had helpful, friendly advice. 
    edited December 2021 randominternetpersonget seriousdewme
  • Reply 82 of 104
    robabarobaba Posts: 226member
    Why are workers in retail treated so bad by management?  Two words: cost containment.  The worker is the one area where management on a local level can be shown to “save money” and so they treat their employees not as team members or allies, but as adversaries keeping the manager from getting a bonus.  Until this perverse power structure is reversed, employees retail employees will continue to be shat upon.
    12Strangers
  • Reply 83 of 104
    People work hard. Get their schedules set by employers. Face consequences when they underperform. 

    Sounds pretty dang normal. 
    randominternetpersondewmecoastalgatheringmike1
  • Reply 84 of 104
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,040member
    I’ve always found Apple retail employees to be friendly, helpful, and a pleasure to interact with. Apple better step up of it wants to keep people like that, because it can go south in a hurry if enough of them bail out. There is so much work available across all sectors where I live that anyone not satisfied with their job could have another one later that day if desired. 
    get serious12Strangers
  • Reply 85 of 104
    NYC362 said:
    I'm relatively new to retail, working at Apple for just over two years.  No, it is not the easiest of jobs, but it could be so much worse.   

    Maybe I'm really lucky.  My management at my store has been great to me and encouraging of others.  Sure, there are some people who whine about everything, but I'm convinced they'd do that anywhere.  Customers here in NYC come from all over the globe.  The overwhelming majority are nice, polite, and appreciative of our efforts.

    During the pandemic, the company not only didn't lay anyone off, but they kept on seasonals who were supposed to leave at the end of March 2020.  We were paid throughout the shut down and many of us- including myself- had the chance to work at home doing phone support for sales, orders, and trouble shooting.

    We've been provided with masks (designed by the company and so popular, customers constantly ask if we sell them), with COVID tests- first it was PCR tests FedEx'ed to our homes.  I had results in generally 48-60 hours. Now, it is rapid tests that we do on the first day of our work week and we've been told to add 20 minutes to our clocked in time for that test.  We get discounts on merchandise.  We get stock at 15% off the market price at the beginning or end of a purchase period- which ever is lower.  (On January 31, many employees will be buying shares at about $123 a piece.). I get one sick hour for every 30 hours I work- so around 4 per month.  Have good attendance like me, and it piles up pretty quickly. 

    There are many chances to move within the company.  Career experiences let you try other positions.  In my short time, I've seen dozens of retail employees move up the at ladder within the store or to business sales or to corporate and development roles.

    Is it perfect?  No.  We are on our feet all day.  We are have to deal with survey results that make you want to hunt the customer down and find out what they were thinking.  (Like the review a colleague of mine received- a 2 [out of 5] because he didn't smile.  Obviously, customer idiot didn't realize we can't see smiles through masks.).  We are always conscious of metrics like connected phones, AppleCare+ sales, business intros, etc.    In store zoning could be better.  Standing "On Point"- welcoming customers into a store and finding out what they are there for- for over two hours at times is mind numbing.  I've said several times, that zoning should never be more than 90 minutes, unless someone wants to be there. 

    But does anyone think that any other large retail company is any different?   I may be new to retail but my wife worked in high end retail for over 30 years, I knew exactly what to expect, and overall, I haven't had many issues to gripe about at all.

    Finally, to the poster who claims the average Apple store employee is making $13 an hour.  I'd like to know where they got that info.   Salary does differ by market.  Here in NYC, I started at $20 an hour two years ago.  A starting Specialist here makes a bit more than that now.   I've been told that a neighboring market in New Jersey, the pay is about a dollar an hour less.  No idea if that is actually so though.  In any event, I really doubt anyone at Apple is making just $13 an hour.

    Apple isn't perfect, but if you do your job it is pretty damn good.  

    Remember, the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence.  The problem is, everyone is looking at a green fence. 

    All these Apple employees posting here. You all signed a NDA about posting on forums like this and especially this kind of information. NYC362 should be fired for this post. 
    Exactly! If they think that a screen name is going to be enough to hide their anonymity they are going to be sadly mistaken. I have never had to sign a NDA in my life but I have been definitely warned as to what will happen if I had posted any company business on any social media form. 
    You guys are ridiculous. Nothing NYC362 said would be grounds for a NDA-related action.
    get serious12Strangersdewmefastasleep
  • Reply 86 of 104
    stanhope said:
    To me this started with the much hyped, overpaid, angela ahrendts.  One used to get the exclusive attention of the genius during an appointment, now you are in a cluster where you share the attention of the expert.  If you had apple care, the person helping you seemed to have wide latitude to address your problem even replacing the item outside the expiration date by a week or two.  This shopping appointment approach is foolish though i cannot lay that bit of stupidity at her feet.  What on earth does burberry have to do with apple?  Burberry isn’t as successful as Louis Vuitton.  It was always a second tier ‘luxury’ brand.  Bottom line apple isn’t what apple used to be and that is no compliment.  Kudos to those employees with whom I have interacted with that were pleasant, professional and thorough.  Only once did I have to upbraid a snotty jackass that now you tell me makes $13/hour.  With that he couldn’t avoid the merchandise he hawks.
    Uh no...
    This "started" when every Tom, Dick and Harriet started to buy iPhones. Apple's customer base went from 20 million mac users and 30 million iPod users to a Billion iOS users. The Apple User community was a relatively small group at the beginning of Apple Retail.

    For the record Ron Johnson ran retail from 2000-2011. He hired the English ass hat that still will not be named within Apple Retail. He lasted 6 months. Tim got it back and found Angela. From 2013-2019 she repaired a lot of damage and began the transformation to digital and online model. Deidre, who worked her way from the shipping docks to Senior Vice President in charge of People and Retail at Apple is now in charge. And doing a fine job I might add.
    dewmefastasleep
  • Reply 87 of 104

    "[Apple says] our soul is our people but it really didn't feel like that to me," said one a former employee.

    "Corporate makes decisions based on what they think will work in the stores without talking to people who work in the stores," said another.

    "There's never positive intent assumed," said one current employee of how Apple regards the surveys it sends customers about its staff. "It always feels like you're a kid getting in trouble and you're making an excuse."

    ...

    At one point, employees were sent Apple shirts as a thank you -- only to find that the shirts were leftovers from Apple's cancelled WWDC 2020.

    The recent announcement of a $1,000 bonus has not been universally well received, either.
    ...

    The publication's account is a series of shocking reports, and chief among them is this issue of the suicide of Mark Calivas in September 2021. His friend Jimmy Bailey says that he wants Tim Cook to act.



    Read on AppleInsider
    This is nuts.  So, notwithstanding an employee suicide (which, sadly, impacts so many companies on a regular basis--oftentimes having nothing to do with the employer), the "shocking reports" are:
    1. Employee doesn't feel like he is treated like Apple's soul.
    2. Employee believes management makes uninformed decisions.
    3. Employees are held accountable (perhaps unfairly) for customer satisfaction survey results.
    4. Instead of throwing out WWDC t-shirts, Apple gave them to some employees.
    5. Employees got a $1000 bonus.

    90% of HR departments would be thrilled if those were the complaints received.

    Having said that, these handful of interviewed employees appear to be facing poor local management and aren't satisfied with the escalation process. That's something Apple should work on (and likely is). Apple has hundreds of stores worldwide, what would be "shocking" is if one couldn't find examples where local management was misbehaving and able to get away with it (for a while anyway).

    It's possible that Apple is the worst retail environment, but interviews with 16 current and former employees shines no light on that question.
    dewmestompymaximararadarthekatfastasleep
  • Reply 88 of 104
    NYC362 said:
    I'm relatively new to retail, working at Apple for just over two years.  No, it is not the easiest of jobs, but it could be so much worse.   

    Maybe I'm really lucky.  My management at my store has been great to me and encouraging of others.  Sure, there are some people who whine about everything, but I'm convinced they'd do that anywhere.  Customers here in NYC come from all over the globe.  The overwhelming majority are nice, polite, and appreciative of our efforts.

    During the pandemic, the company not only didn't lay anyone off, but they kept on seasonals who were supposed to leave at the end of March 2020.  We were paid throughout the shut down and many of us- including myself- had the chance to work at home doing phone support for sales, orders, and trouble shooting.

    We've been provided with masks (designed by the company and so popular, customers constantly ask if we sell them), with COVID tests- first it was PCR tests FedEx'ed to our homes.  I had results in generally 48-60 hours. Now, it is rapid tests that we do on the first day of our work week and we've been told to add 20 minutes to our clocked in time for that test.  We get discounts on merchandise.  We get stock at 15% off the market price at the beginning or end of a purchase period- which ever is lower.  (On January 31, many employees will be buying shares at about $123 a piece.). I get one sick hour for every 30 hours I work- so around 4 per month.  Have good attendance like me, and it piles up pretty quickly. 

    There are many chances to move within the company.  Career experiences let you try other positions.  In my short time, I've seen dozens of retail employees move up the at ladder within the store or to business sales or to corporate and development roles.

    Is it perfect?  No.  We are on our feet all day.  We are have to deal with survey results that make you want to hunt the customer down and find out what they were thinking.  (Like the review a colleague of mine received- a 2 [out of 5] because he didn't smile.  Obviously, customer idiot didn't realize we can't see smiles through masks.).  We are always conscious of metrics like connected phones, AppleCare+ sales, business intros, etc.    In store zoning could be better.  Standing "On Point"- welcoming customers into a store and finding out what they are there for- for over two hours at times is mind numbing.  I've said several times, that zoning should never be more than 90 minutes, unless someone wants to be there. 

    But does anyone think that any other large retail company is any different?   I may be new to retail but my wife worked in high end retail for over 30 years, I knew exactly what to expect, and overall, I haven't had many issues to gripe about at all.

    Finally, to the poster who claims the average Apple store employee is making $13 an hour.  I'd like to know where they got that info.   Salary does differ by market.  Here in NYC, I started at $20 an hour two years ago.  A starting Specialist here makes a bit more than that now.   I've been told that a neighboring market in New Jersey, the pay is about a dollar an hour less.  No idea if that is actually so though.  In any event, I really doubt anyone at Apple is making just $13 an hour.

    Apple isn't perfect, but if you do your job it is pretty damn good.  

    Remember, the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence.  The problem is, everyone is looking at a green fence. 

    All these Apple employees posting here. You all signed a NDA about posting on forums like this and especially this kind of information. NYC362 should be fired for this post. 
    Exactly! If they think that a screen name is going to be enough to hide their anonymity they are going to be sadly mistaken. I have never had to sign a NDA in my life but I have been definitely warned as to what will happen if I had posted any company business on any social media form. 
    You guys are ridiculous. Nothing NYC362 said would be grounds for a NDA-related action.
    Definitely the inconsequential story Apple would not want being splashed all over social media.
  • Reply 89 of 104
    For the person who stated that "working is a privilege".

    No it is not, it is a means to an end. That “end” is paying the bills and hopefully saving some for later in life. 
    A privilege is doing something that makes you want to get out of bed early, happy to be going to do that something and being more than you think you should be.

    btw how many here think that they are overpaid?

    For the person that stated that the problem was unique to California.

    There are many places in CA that are not very expensive to live, one just needs to get away from the large cities. Also, I think there are many places where the cost of living is high, Hawaii, New York, Boston, Washington D.C., Las Vegas, etc. 


    Maybe the Apple store employees should unionize. I wonder how Apple would respond, like Amazon, Walmart, Target, etc. or if the powers that be would be indifferent to the organized labor movement.


    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 90 of 104
    Having worked in the service industry I have to ask is there any company (even franchises) who do not treat the customer as god and you, their employee, like something that came out of the rear end of a dog?  Even when I had great superiors the one above them would have a hissy fit over any kind of bad review - even when we could prove the bad review wasn't about us.  

    Corporate America, regardless of industry, has become a stress filled nightmare.  Small wonder I had heart failure with a 5% chance of surviving at the age of 49 - and that was as a night auditor - a supposedly stressless position.
    edited December 2021 radarthekat
  • Reply 91 of 104
    jimh2 said:
    If you do not like a job then find another and quit. It’s not healthy to do something that you hate and it is a waste of a life. Might take some schooling or training to get a better job but make it happen. 
    It is easy to say that but pre-covid it was impractical.  You have so many jobs that have resumes read by computer that look for "magic words", have insane requirements (a bachelor degree and two years experience and only pay $8.00/hr), or are little more than fake listings by job placement services (jobs that were filled long ago or the company doesn't even exist anymore). 
  • Reply 92 of 104
    sdw2001 said:
    darkvader said:
    Always remember that 'Genius' you think is doing such a great job repairing your computer, so much better than a third-party repair shop could possibly do, is actually working for about $13/hour.  Apple does not pay store employees a living wage.
    Care to explain what a "living wage" would be? Who decides it? And why people continue to work for less than that amount?  
    I'll do better.  I'll quote a Republican President:

    "No man can be a good citizen unless he has a wage more than sufficient to cover the bare cost of living, and hours of labor short enough so that after his day’s work is done he will have time and energy to bear his share in the management of the community, to help in carrying the general load. We keep countless men from being good citizens by the conditions of life with which we surround them. We need comprehensive workmen’s compensation acts, both state and national laws to regulate child labor and work for women, and, especially, we need in our common schools not merely education in book learning, but also practical training for daily life and work."

    "We stand for a living wage. Wages are subnormal if they fail to provide a living for those who devote their time and energy to industrial occupations. The monetary equivalent of a living wage varies according to local conditions, but must include enough to secure the elements of a normal standard of living--a standard high enough to make morality possible, to provide for education and recreation, to care for immature members of the family, to maintain the family during periods of sickness, and to permit of reasonable saving for old age."

    His cousin, a Democratic President had this to say:
    "No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level — I mean the wages of a decent living"

    As far as whey people work for below a living wage read novels based on the real live horrors that were the Gilded Age: The Jungle and Midnight is a Place.
    edited December 2021 radarthekat
  • Reply 93 of 104
    “ American capitalism … has been the system responsible for lifting more people out of abject poverty than anytime in the history of the planet”

    What?!

    None so blind as those who will not see.
    It’s perfectly clear which you are.
  • Reply 94 of 104
    jdw said:
    Businesses exist to make profit.  Everything else is secondary.  This is not a praise or condemnation but rather a statement of fact. It is capitalism.  And whether one likes Capitalism or not, it is largely the system used in the USA, where most of you reside.  Employees are treated in part in accordance with the law, but also in part from the benevolence, or lack therefore, of the company which hires them.  If prices are raised too high to pay a living wage, then such could negatively impact sales, reduce profits, and call the entire business into question.  

    The problem with rent (living cost) is specific to California state, so if the prices of Apple products sold in California state were to rise in accordance with the cost of living there, but not have an equivalent rise in other states where the cost of living is lower, then fiscally-minded consumers would be inclined to buy from those other lower cost states instead, thereby resulting in fewer visitors to Apple stores in CA.

    For this reason, Apple alone cannot resolve high rent prices in CA state, unless it diversifies into real estate and housing and then rents to home seekers for low prices, but then you'd have Big Brother jumping in yet again to cry about anti-trust.

    The entire conversation about overpriced rent in CA, and what constitutes a living wage, and whether wages along should be raised to compensate for rising living expenses (instead of an alternative solution that seeks to lower price inflation, keep rent costs in check, or even reduce living costs overall) is a debate that transcends Apple.  Apple is simply caught up in a much bigger problem that it cannot solve by itself, despite being one of the biggest corporations around.  All we are doing in this forum right now is discussing how we think and feel about Apple's PR within the confines of this complex topic.  It superficially "looks better" if Apple pays CA employees more in light of their higher rent, and may even make some employees feel better for a few months, but increasing wages in CA would only drive living costs up further, and soon people would be back to complaining about Apple yet again at that point.  All the while, prices of Apple products would need to be increased to compensate for higher wages, leading to numerous other problems in the marketplace.

    This is not an argument against higher wages.  This is an explanation about what drives up the cost of living.  Higher wages really do trigger price inflation at some point.  

    The ideal solution, whatever that may be, would be to have wages increase with no matching increase in the cost of living.  (For example, here in Japan, I've paid the same rent for a rented home to my landlord for more than 12 years.) CA state needs wage increases alongside price deflation in order to make the state long-term viable for most people to live.  Anything short of that will only increase homelessness and despair, which is already a huge problem right now in CA.  It's no wonder many people I know from my home state of CA have now moved to Texas (which has no income tax and a lower cost of living) and seem to be enjoying that decision tremendously.


    I’m truly curious: how can wage increases combined with price deflation mathematically work in the real world?

    I’d be interested to see that worked out and proven.

    I submit that’s an impossible task to explicitly do to the market as a whole: command economies always fail, historically.  Japan has undergone long-term deflation for a very long period of time, while the US has not been deflationary for more than a few months since the Great Depression, and what you’re proposing is a conflicting pair of goals that has far less room to work than most people realize.  There are other than pure mathematical issues with such a proposal that encourage failure, such as human motivation.

    The wiser long-term solution is not to raise everyone’s wages for the exact same results, but rather to level up workers (they need to invest in themselves, it doesn’t come without time and effort) in value to justify a higher hourly/salary price.  In the real world, this is the most important distinction between what constitutes something being either a job or career, where a job doesn’t necessarily require growth and progression, but a career  does.  This concept is a HUGE flaw in the current political insanity screaming about “equity” in that it screams for everyone to have an equal outcome regardless of how much or little they worked for it immediately and long-term, and their sacrifices they’ve made or not made.
    radarthekatdewme
  • Reply 95 of 104
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,853member
    crowley said:
    sdw2001 said:
    Apple must stop the bs and put in practice what it preaches. I have been a long-time customer of Apple (Mac's, IPads, IPhones, IPods, Airpods, etc, etc, etc.) for myself and every member of my family and I must say that I was thoughghly upset when I read about how Apple is treating its front-line employees. This is how American capitalism has run amok and failed the very large majority of citizens: the obscene enrichment of a very few to the detriment of the rest. This is outrageous in light of Cook, Federici & al pocketing their hundreds of $Millions in remuneration and stock options on the back of their front-line employees. This must stop or else....
    Apple doesn't have to do anything.  And your comments on capitalism are complete gaslighting nonsense.  American capitalism hasn't failed even a plurality of citizens.  It has been the system responsible for lifting more people out of abject poverty than anytime in the history of the planet.  Moreover, despite wails of "income inequality," there is no evidence that a small group of ultra-wealthy people are hoarding money to the detriment of others.  Sure, top executive pay has risen exponentially compared to middle and lower level wages.  But just do the math.  Tim Cook made about $15 million in total compensation last year.  If he gave up every penny to the approximately 30,000 Apple Retail employees in the U.S., it would translate to $500 per worker.  Well guess what? Apple gave them $1000 bonuses.  

    Or else? I'm sure Apple is quaking in their boots.  
    Tim Cook is only one man out of many executives, and you've chosen a particular year that he wasn't awarded any stock options.  Retail staff aren't given stock options any year.
    Cool. Add up what all the top executives make and do the math again.
  • Reply 96 of 104
    bulk001bulk001 Posts: 687member
    @randominternetperson ;

    “You guys are ridiculous. Nothing NYC362 said would be grounds for a NDA-related action.”

    Haha. On this site everyone is an expert! Armchair lawyers are a specialty here on everything from copyright to patents to experts in antitrust law. But glad to see a whole crop of management and employee relations armchair experts too. The posts that are particularly funny here are the ones giving advice to Apple management not to listen to advice from their workers! Not to be overly critical as even I am a self declared expert here with my latest sudden found and apparently controversial expertise on shoelace technology and the tremendous amount of work that takes years to design them (with backward capabilities). [See other thread on Apple’s tireless pursuit on watchbands. Those workers are the ones who really deserve a raise I’d say!]
  • Reply 97 of 104
    mike1 said:

    These are the ramblings of every employee survey, ever. Low-level employees feel that they are smarter than their bosses or know secrets that management does not.
    Retail is tough and not everyone has the personality to deal with difficult customers in a busy store environment every day. The solution is simple. Find another job!
    Newsflash: low-level employees ARE smarter than their bosses (in that they are on the front lines) AND know secrets that their management does not. All good senior managers know this, and spend their time with people "on the floor" to maintain a pulse for their experiences. This is not to say that low level employees know everything - but many times, the things they know are the most valuable things, and their suggestions can make a huge difference. At other times, senior managers need to ensure that coaching and nurturing take place as well. In the world you describe, finding another job doesn't solve the situation where there aren't enough good senior managers to run companies well.
    edited December 2021 bulk001
  • Reply 98 of 104
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,034member
    sdw2001 said:
    crowley said:
    sdw2001 said:
    Apple must stop the bs and put in practice what it preaches. I have been a long-time customer of Apple (Mac's, IPads, IPhones, IPods, Airpods, etc, etc, etc.) for myself and every member of my family and I must say that I was thoughghly upset when I read about how Apple is treating its front-line employees. This is how American capitalism has run amok and failed the very large majority of citizens: the obscene enrichment of a very few to the detriment of the rest. This is outrageous in light of Cook, Federici & al pocketing their hundreds of $Millions in remuneration and stock options on the back of their front-line employees. This must stop or else....
    Apple doesn't have to do anything.  And your comments on capitalism are complete gaslighting nonsense.  American capitalism hasn't failed even a plurality of citizens.  It has been the system responsible for lifting more people out of abject poverty than anytime in the history of the planet.  Moreover, despite wails of "income inequality," there is no evidence that a small group of ultra-wealthy people are hoarding money to the detriment of others.  Sure, top executive pay has risen exponentially compared to middle and lower level wages.  But just do the math.  Tim Cook made about $15 million in total compensation last year.  If he gave up every penny to the approximately 30,000 Apple Retail employees in the U.S., it would translate to $500 per worker.  Well guess what? Apple gave them $1000 bonuses.  

    Or else? I'm sure Apple is quaking in their boots.  
    Tim Cook is only one man out of many executives, and you've chosen a particular year that he wasn't awarded any stock options.  Retail staff aren't given stock options any year.
    Cool. Add up what all the top executives make and do the math again.
    I'd rather not.  There's really no need to put effort into making an argument that there's something messed up with a CEO and Exec Board earning 8 digit incomes while staff aren't being paid a living wage.
    bulk001muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 99 of 104
    bulk001bulk001 Posts: 687member
    crowley said:
    sdw2001 said:
    crowley said:
    sdw2001 said:
    Apple must stop the bs and put in practice what it preaches. I have been a long-time customer of Apple (Mac's, IPads, IPhones, IPods, Airpods, etc, etc, etc.) for myself and every member of my family and I must say that I was thoughghly upset when I read about how Apple is treating its front-line employees. This is how American capitalism has run amok and failed the very large majority of citizens: the obscene enrichment of a very few to the detriment of the rest. This is outrageous in light of Cook, Federici & al pocketing their hundreds of $Millions in remuneration and stock options on the back of their front-line employees. This must stop or else....
    Apple doesn't have to do anything.  And your comments on capitalism are complete gaslighting nonsense.  American capitalism hasn't failed even a plurality of citizens.  It has been the system responsible for lifting more people out of abject poverty than anytime in the history of the planet.  Moreover, despite wails of "income inequality," there is no evidence that a small group of ultra-wealthy people are hoarding money to the detriment of others.  Sure, top executive pay has risen exponentially compared to middle and lower level wages.  But just do the math.  Tim Cook made about $15 million in total compensation last year.  If he gave up every penny to the approximately 30,000 Apple Retail employees in the U.S., it would translate to $500 per worker.  Well guess what? Apple gave them $1000 bonuses.  

    Or else? I'm sure Apple is quaking in their boots.  
    Tim Cook is only one man out of many executives, and you've chosen a particular year that he wasn't awarded any stock options.  Retail staff aren't given stock options any year.
    Cool. Add up what all the top executives make and do the math again.
    I'd rather not.  There's really no need to put effort into making an argument that there's something messed up with a CEO and Exec Board earning 8 digit incomes while staff aren't being paid a living wage.
    There is a very simple fix. Any compensation to any employee that exceeds say 25x minimum wage is taxed at 90%. Include stock options, travel perks etc. They could of course leave but go where? To another job that does the same? Could probably get an international agreement in place to stop them benefiting by moving or make it that you have to pay that regardless of where it is earned. In a country that pays pennies per hour they would hit that limit a lot quicker. Not sure it is a good solution (waiting for the socialist / communist calls) but would solve this problem. Edit: said with my social justice armchair expertise. 
    edited December 2021 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 100 of 104
    crowley said:
    sdw2001 said:
    crowley said:
    sdw2001 said:
    Apple must stop the bs and put in practice what it preaches. I have been a long-time customer of Apple (Mac's, IPads, IPhones, IPods, Airpods, etc, etc, etc.) for myself and every member of my family and I must say that I was thoughghly upset when I read about how Apple is treating its front-line employees. This is how American capitalism has run amok and failed the very large majority of citizens: the obscene enrichment of a very few to the detriment of the rest. This is outrageous in light of Cook, Federici & al pocketing their hundreds of $Millions in remuneration and stock options on the back of their front-line employees. This must stop or else....
    Apple doesn't have to do anything.  And your comments on capitalism are complete gaslighting nonsense.  American capitalism hasn't failed even a plurality of citizens.  It has been the system responsible for lifting more people out of abject poverty than anytime in the history of the planet.  Moreover, despite wails of "income inequality," there is no evidence that a small group of ultra-wealthy people are hoarding money to the detriment of others.  Sure, top executive pay has risen exponentially compared to middle and lower level wages.  But just do the math.  Tim Cook made about $15 million in total compensation last year.  If he gave up every penny to the approximately 30,000 Apple Retail employees in the U.S., it would translate to $500 per worker.  Well guess what? Apple gave them $1000 bonuses.  

    Or else? I'm sure Apple is quaking in their boots.  
    Tim Cook is only one man out of many executives, and you've chosen a particular year that he wasn't awarded any stock options.  Retail staff aren't given stock options any year.
    Cool. Add up what all the top executives make and do the math again.
    I'd rather not.  There's really no need to put effort into making an argument that there's something messed up with a CEO and Exec Board earning 8 digit incomes while staff aren't being paid a living wage.
    “A living wage” is one of those things that’s different for everyone because everyone has different ideas of what they “need” versus “want” and is about as easy to nail down as grabbing a cloud and nailing it to the wall.  It’s (at best!) a nebulous concept that nobody can ever agree on a concrete number, and makes for a great way to start an argument that achieves exactly nothing of real value, because it remains abstract and never gets concrete and measurable.
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