What is your church like?
I am just wondering religion and what level of modern times is showing in your church and if you like it or don't like it.
I'm Luthren (christianity for those who don't know)
I've noticed kids...well people younger then I (heh, i'm a kid so i guess i can't say that) don't dress up as much, in general in this area, not just at my church, as I think they should.
Also something that bothers me that really shouldn't i know, but is instruments other then like organ/piano...maybe a brass here or there. Like guitars or drums (thankfully my church hasn't had drums yet) really bother me for some reason, and i dont knwo why.
I'm Luthren (christianity for those who don't know)
I've noticed kids...well people younger then I (heh, i'm a kid so i guess i can't say that) don't dress up as much, in general in this area, not just at my church, as I think they should.
Also something that bothers me that really shouldn't i know, but is instruments other then like organ/piano...maybe a brass here or there. Like guitars or drums (thankfully my church hasn't had drums yet) really bother me for some reason, and i dont knwo why.
Comments
What I don´t like is the fact that this picture could have been taken from my bedroom window
Make me wish our church was like the on in "breaking the Waves": Without any bells
As for music, as a participant, i.e. I sing rather than remain silent, I don't like it when some people think they are so good (and aren't) that they must bellow out the words and thus drown out those near them. We do have a couple of singers in our choir who are rather bad and own very nasily individual whom I don't think is that good. But if I had to choose between hearing them and having nobody sing, I would rather hear them.
As for instruments, I also do not like drums, especially bongo drums. They can be very distracting. I'm not bothered by flutes, clarinets, horns, or violins, but I hear those things very seldomly.
Finally, one last annoyance to me is when they prefer to 'act' out the gospel rather than speak it. The worst is the interpretive dancing which I absolutely hate. It is always the same women and always very boring and uninspirational. None of those who 'act' out the gospel are particularly good at it which has the unintentional result of tuning me out completely. My wife likes it and my kids as well, but I could live without it.
When I went to church as a kid with my parents, people dressed up, went to a church with gothic majesty, listened to Bach, and didn't talk about weird smarmy God stuff like they do today. Parents had coffee and danishes upstairs and talked about real-life stuff while the kids made out in the church basement. That's the way church should be. No creationism, no personal relationships with God, no speaking in tongues, no laying on of hands, no handling of snakes, and no fire on the head.
Originally posted by BRussell
I'm with you. I really dislike the modern pop-religion churches. But I think it's a symbolic change, brought about by the born-again movements of the 1980s, when your personal relationship with God began to matter more, and the majesty of the church was thought of as a roadblock to that personal relationship.
When I went to church as a kid with my parents, people dressed up, went to a church with gothic majesty, listened to Bach, and didn't talk about weird smarmy God stuff like they do today. Parents had coffee and danishes upstairs and talked about real-life stuff while the kids made out in the church basement. That's the way church should be. No creationism, no personal relationships with God, no speaking in tongues, no laying on of hands, no handling of snakes, and no fire on the head.
ast3r3x said:
I've noticed kids...well people younger then I (heh, i'm a kid so i guess i can't say that) don't dress up as much, in general in this area, not just at my church, as I think they should.
Also something that bothers me that really shouldn't i know, but is instruments other then like organ/piano...maybe a brass here or there. Like guitars or drums (thankfully my church hasn't had drums yet) really bother me for some reason, and i dont knwo why.
So ast3r3x and BRussell think you should dress up and not use certain musical instruments during worship. Can I ask why? I am not trying to put you on the spot but to me it is either you are narrow minded or don't like things that are different than you. I mean you both are free to go to where ever you wish to worship God or not at all for that matter. Why this childish petty dis-respect to contemporary churches? Some people really could use learning the phrase "live and let live" and stop their childish attacks.
Jesus does not give a rip about how people dress. Read the Bible sometime and I ask you to show me where Jesus requires people in dresses and suits? Where is that part? Also BRussell says something grand. You submit Church should not talk about a personal relationship with God. To that I have to really wonder about your views of Christianity BRussell.
Seems the college professor type in full force once again.
Fellowship
Originally posted by Anders the White
speechless eh?
had an AI moment.
I would submit to the narrow minded types here that there is nothing wrong with contemporary worship styles of growing Churches. Hillsong is a great example of a living and life changing ministry.
If you want your coffee and donuts and organ you are free to stay at your "us 4 and no more" stlye church where they look at you funny if you don't dress up. Can you say dead?
Hillsong Link
Amazing
Fellowship
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
astr3r3x said:
So astr3r3x and BRussell think you should dress up and not use certain musical instruments during worship. Can I ask why? I am not trying to put you on the spot but to me it is either you are narrow minded or don't like things that are different than you. I mean you both are free to go to where ever you wish to worship God or not at all for that matter. Why this childish petty dis-respect to contemporary churches? Some people really could use learning the phrase "live and let live" and stop their childish attacks.
Jesus does not give a rip about how people dress. Read the Bible sometime and I ask you to show me where Jesus requires people in dresses and suits? Where is that part? Also BRussell says something grand. You submit Church should not talk about a personal relationship with God. To that I have to really wonder about your views of Christianity BRussell.
Seems the college professor type in full force once again.
Fellowship
woah, calm down tiger
what do you mean childish attacks, i attacked nobody. I am not saying you need to dress up and i am not saying you can't have certin instruments in church, but what i'm saying is as those things creep in, it seems to directly come along with having people come to get money for the church and just feel good about yourself that you're there instead of extending your relationship with god through prayer and study
haha how is that for a run-on
Originally posted by ast3r3x
woah, calm down tiger
what do you mean childish attacks, i attacked nobody. I am not saying you need to dress up and i am not saying you can't have certin instruments in church, but what i'm saying is as those things creep in, it seems to directly come along with having people come to get money for the church and just feel good about yourself that you're there instead of extending your relationship with god through prayer and study
haha how is that for a run-on
I respect your views. I would say my church had nobody "come in" to "get money" Worship stlye is not something that is either cheap or not depending on the stlye. It is what people view it as no matter the style. I just don't understand some like my own uncle who bash churches like the one I go to "Fellowship Church" and contends people should not invite people to church etc. Ohh so if God makes a huge difference in our lives we should keep it secret? He is an old timer and likes his comfort zone. Not too much energy. And you know what that is fine and dandy with me. He can have his fall asleep to the message half-baked message. And I can have my energy filled creative message and high energy praise and worship music.
There are choices for all.
Fellowship
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
I respect your views. I would say my church had nobody "come in" to "get money" Worship stlye is not something that is either cheap or not depending on the stlye. It is what people view it as no matter the style. I just don't understand some like my own uncle who bash churches like the one I go to "Fellowship Church" and contends people should not invite people to church etc. Ohh so if God makes a huge difference in our lives we should keep it secret? He is an old timer and likes his comfort zone. Not too much energy. And you know what that is fine and dandy with me. He can have his fall asleep to the message half-baked message. And I can have my energy filled creative message and high energy praise and worship music.
There are choices for all.
Fellowship
hey i agree with you...if i read it correctly
i'm not saying it always happens but do you know what i mean about the warm-feel-good feeling some churches try to give instead of a better understanding/relationship of god?
Originally posted by ast3r3x
hey i agree with you...if i read it correctly
i'm not saying it always happens but do you know what i mean about the warm-feel-good feeling some churches try to give instead of a better understanding/relationship of god?
Yes I have been to some badly run Churches. Fellowship Church where I go is very "in your face" with the message of God, not sugar coated. It is not about feel good but about message. People come from all over the world to check out the creative messages at Fellowship Church.
I have seen some broadcast Church like Lakewood in Houston and the message never changes. It is this defeated attitude but don't give up hope God wants the best for you. Week after week the message never changes. Joel Osteen is a great guy but something is wrong when the message is the same week after week.
Similar are the financial breakthrough church messages week after week at some churches.
Why I LOVE Fellowship Church where I go is because the message is always new and changing. We have on message discussions that are very blunt and pertaining to the word of God.
I rather love learning in such a dynamic and progressive way as Fellowship Church manages to do week after week.
Fellowship
From almost ritualistic Catholicism to the seemingly chaotic guitar'n'drums JesusFests I found a nice middle ground in the Mormon area.
Lots of talk about personal relationships with God, formal dressing (it's not about looking rich, it's about NOT wearing a goddam Tasmanian Devil t-shirt and making church look like a grade school history class) and very nice people in an environment where gossiping was heavily frowned upon.
When I moved out to East Texas we had a tiny little LDS branch and occassionally people would bring their Baptist friends and they'd be wearing some godawful theme T-Shirt (WWJD was big at the time) or giant crosses (yikes!) or *shudder* tennis shoes with white socks.
As liberal as I am about dress, I just don't understand how someone thinks it appropriate to waltz into the supposed home of their deity dressed like they're ready to head out to Joe's pool party.
If I were ever forced at gunpoint to go to church, I'd be at the nearest LDS ward.
Don't everything with gold. Also, shower, iron your freaking shirt and wear your Sunday best. If you're poor, go to Goodwill and get a $2 white button-up long-sleeve. No one is that poor in America! Dip into your mayonaise and chewing tobacco budget!
Originally posted by groverat
...Dip into your mayonaise and chewing tobacco budget!
lol
Originally posted by Moogs
Hey Fellowship, you should see if they'd let you send a QT stream to AI so we can all see what it is you are so enthusiastic about. Seriously. Interesting learning experience given all the heated debate we've had in here the last several months. I might not watch the whole service, but I bet everyone would watch for at least 5 minutes!
If you have a PC you can watch the service at FC
FellowshipChurch.com
Also for the issue of dress at Church this is how I went today. Picture taken just mins ago.
Keep in mind it gets nice and hot here in Dallas.
Fellowship
Some much for the theory that music is a new trend...
Originally posted by billybobsky
Its even more apparent when you have gotten used to conservative/orthodox jewish practises where there are no instruments allowed to go into a reform sabbath service where there is full musical accompaniment. Then again conservative judaism is the youngest of the three
Some much for the theory that music is a new trend...
In more ancient time, instrumental music was an integral and very important part of the worship taking place at the Miqdash (shrine) of Jerusalem, which was the only real place of Hebrew worship. According to a present-day Italian musician and ethno-musicilogue whose name I forgot, it had great influence on the music scene of the Near-East as well as on the Graeco-Roman music scene.
In the absence of a common single place of worship, after the Miqdash was destroyed, the synagogues became an ersatz to the shrine: a Miqdash me'att.
But the synagogue is basically a place of study, worship added afterward, no wonder in Central and Eastern Europe a synagogue is often called a Schul. And for various reasons, notably not to provoque the Gentiles, as well as to not become a substitute to the ?true? worship of the Levites, instrumental music was frowned upon.
It goes without saying that playing an instrument on the Shabbos is strictly ferboten among the traditionalist public.
[It's no wonder the Reform synagogues don't mind seeming like substitutes for the Miqdash, I mean they don't call it a ?Temple? for nothing.]
Oh, yeah... and when you visit, dress should be comfortable and casual.