I'm not sure that's true. I'd ask you for a link or at least a reposting of data. There has been the bit with racial profiling.
Scott is right: Race gets injected into just about every argument imaginable. We do have significant problems in the minority communities, but it is always blamed on our system limiting those groups. I really don't think that's true, unless we are talking about the federal welfare state that exists with many minorities. This in itself discourages things like two-parent families and increased levels of education.
I challenge anyone to show me an example of how our system is unfair to minorities. I know discrepancies exist in income, home ownership, education, etc....but I don't think that there is a race-created glass ceiling in today's world.
Because in general it's true. There are plenty of records to show that persons classified as white get different treatement that those classified as black when dealing with the justice system. It stats from the initital contact with the police and follows through to the Judge and Jury. While the comment may have no bearing on the fcts of the actual case, in a larger discussion it is an accurate commentary.
Actually the single largest determining variable for how you will be treated by the justice system is your gender. Males, be they white or black are sentences much more harshly than females. The system isn't racist, it is sexist. I assure you that if you compare sentences for the same crime for white males and black females you will find that white males were treated more harshly.
But then I could have sworn this was about state school testing.
I can't accept these. The links you provided are total bullshit, with all due respect. They do nothing to prove your point. The second one speaks of the black people in prison. Let me ask you: Isn't it possible that minorities commit more crimes? It's not the justice system on the whole...it's problems in their culture that contribute. It's drug use and it's the reasons behind it. It's poverty...though I doubt we agree on how to cure that. It sure as hell isn't our modern justice system.
I don't mean to flame you, but you'll have to do better than that. Show me conviction rates or differences in sentencing. Don't try and post opinion pieces in The Black Commentator and expect me to give you and inch. Please!
I'm sure your misogynist view of the world will see that as sexist too.
Well you know what they say... if you can't debate or discuss. Call names.
You are welcome to counter my claims that the prison system sentences black women to fewer years for the same crime as white men. She called the system racist. I called it sexist.
Yes your link about "talking while black", renting apartments, and a study done by one man with him imitating various dialects was so RIGHT ON regarding testing.
BTW, your second link is bunk but I would gladly look at links regarding prison sentencing that didn't just throw all drug sentencing under the same heading. I certainly consider trafficing and dealing worse than use. Likewise most consider marijuana use to hardly merit a mention while things like heroin should still be illegal to even most drug proponants.
If you have a link that breaks it down according to catagory, I would be interested to see it.... in another thread of course.
Let me ask you: Isn't it possible that minorities commit more crimes?
You know, I already pointed out something you should already have known: bias regarding executions. But here's more:
Quote:
The perception that African Americans, Hispanics, Asians, and other minorities are more likely to carry drugs than their White counterparts intensifies the complexities of police discretion in stops and searches. The escalating pressure from the war on drugs has led some police officers to target people of color whom police believe to be disproportionally involved in drug use and trafficking. Although some members of the police community suggest that race-based searches are justified because more minority drivers are found with contraband, the empirical evidence amassed to date tends to discredit such arguments. In Lamberth's study on I_95 in Maryland, he found that 28.4 percent of Black drivers and passengers drivers and passengers who were searched were found with contraband. Thus, the probability of finding contraband was the same for Blacks and Whites. Race did not matter. According to the New Jersey attorney general's Interim Report (April 1999), the "hit rates" at which contraband was found among those searched did not differ significantly by race. Only 10.5 percent of the searches of Whites resulted in an arrest or seizure compared to a rate of 13.5 percent for Black motorists. Similarly, in the New York study of "stop and frisk" practices, between 1998 and 1999, the attorney general found that 12.6 percent of Whites stopped were arrested, compared to only 10.5 percent of Blacks and 11.3 percent of Latinos. In a recent U.S. Customs Service study, nationwide data revealed that, while 43 percent of those searched were either Black or Latino, the hit rates for Blacks and Latinos were actually lower than the hit rates for Whites. The study found that 6.7 percent of Whites, 6.3 percent of Blacks, and 2.8 percent of Hispanics had contraband.
In other words, statistically, your racist ideas are completely unfounded.
This further demonstrates that widespread racists perceptions still exist in the US. Hell, the things you post show that you have racist ideas that are unfounded. How do these obviously widespread unfounded racist prejudices play into our culture? ....
some people can't read... the Marable article was pretty clear on the percentages.. He didn't pick numbers out the air. If YOU don't agree with Mr. Marrable, then by all means post a link to something that disproves his point.
I agree that incarceration rates, et.al are unrelated to this particular issue ( standardized testing), But an issue of whether someone can ask or make a statement about whether race is a factor in Standardized testing is not race baiting. I have been responding to the race baiting charge, I already made my opinion known as it pertains to standardized testing.
I agree that incarceration rates, et.al are unrelated to this particular issue ( standardized testing),
I think it's very relevant. These people are discussing the issue as if racism against Blacks doesn't exists, yet not only is it demonstrable that racism is widespread, but their own racists prejudices are also being exposed. How someone claiming that Blacks are treated equally in the US can pretend to have any knowledge of race and how it plays into any aspect of life, society or culture is quite a mystery.
I can't accept these. The links you provided are total bullshit, with all due respect. They do nothing to prove your point. The second one speaks of the black people in prison. Let me ask you: Isn't it possible that minorities commit more crimes? It's not the justice system on the whole...it's problems in their culture that contribute. It's drug use and it's the reasons behind it. It's poverty...though I doubt we agree on how to cure that. It sure as hell isn't our modern justice system.
I don't mean to flame you, but you'll have to do better than that. Show me conviction rates or differences in sentencing. Don't try and post opinion pieces in The Black Commentator and expect me to give you and inch. Please!
yo!! Rich white people do more drugs than poor black people. Hello!!!!
Also If one is more likely to be arrested than one is more likely to be convicted. And even in the case court proceedings blacks can find themselves convicted on flimsy evidence. This was just recently demonstrated in Texas where a small town sherriff damn near locked up half a towns black population on drug charges that were later found to be fabricated or plain non-existant.
In other words, statistically, your racist ideas are completely unfounded.
This further demonstrates that widespread racists perceptions still exist in the US. Hell, the things you post show that you have racist ideas that are unfounded. How do these obviously widespread unfounded racist prejudices play into our culture? ....
Someone does a study on I-95 in MD and you use it to call me racist? We weren't even talking about drugs for God's sake! I was suggesting that it is POSSBILE that minority crime rates are higher, and I attempted to point to reasons for that. Sondjata was talking about incarceration rates by the way, which I said don;t really have much to do with our current criminal justice system.
I fully agree racial profiling exists (or at least it did until very recently). What I'm saying is that I don't buy the white criminal justice conspiracy theory you obviously subscribe to. I don't believe, in general, that our criminal justice system is racially biased. That's all I'm saying.
pfflam:
Quote:
I think it's very relevant. These people are discussing the issue as if racism against Blacks doesn't exists, yet not only is it demonstrable that racism is widespread, but their own racists prejudices are also being exposed. How someone claiming that Blacks are treated equally in the US can pretend to have any knowledge of race and how it plays into any aspect of life, society or culture is quite a mystery.
And I think it is a mystery that you can just go around calling people who disgaree on this issue racists. As far as being treated equally, discrimination is illegal and should be punished. Other than the aforementioned racial profiling issue (which many local and state Police Departments have taken extensive measures to correct), how are they not treated equally?
Is it harder for them to get a job? I'd argue just the opposite. Many companies are so afraid to be accused of discrimination that the black applicant has an ADVANTAGE. How about colleges? No, as we all know many universities give extra points to black applicants. How about public services? Not that I've seen. Public transportation? Retail? Not on any wide scale. Oh sure, you'll here about the ocassional bigoted jack ass. But widespread discrimination? Not anymore.
Now, that doesn't mean they aren't at a disadvantage in general. I'm simply arguing that the disadvantage comes more from a socio-economic standpoint, not to mention certain cultural moores that DO exist.
Think what you'd like, but I'm no racist. It is NOT acceptable for you to come in here and start with that shit.
The English test is just basic reading comprehension (you read a very short story or article, then answer questions about it). If kids can't pass this test, not only should they not graduate, but the high school should be investigated. There is something dreadfully wrong with a school system that cannot teach children how to read.
Someone does a study on I-95 in MD and you use it to call me racist? We weren't even talking about drugs for God's sake! I was suggesting that it is POSSBILE that minority crime rates are higher, and I attempted to point to reasons for that. Sondjata was talking about incarceration rates by the way, which I said don;t really have much to do with our current criminal justice system.
I fully agree racial profiling exists (or at least it did until very recently). What I'm saying is that I don't buy the white criminal justice conspiracy theory you obviously subscribe to. I don't believe, in general, that our criminal justice system is racially biased. That's all I'm saying.
Can you guys believe this guy is supposed to be a teacher? Aren't there any requirements for that job anymore?
Comments
Originally posted by SDW2001
I'm not sure that's true. I'd ask you for a link or at least a reposting of data. There has been the bit with racial profiling.
Scott is right: Race gets injected into just about every argument imaginable. We do have significant problems in the minority communities, but it is always blamed on our system limiting those groups. I really don't think that's true, unless we are talking about the federal welfare state that exists with many minorities. This in itself discourages things like two-parent families and increased levels of education.
I challenge anyone to show me an example of how our system is unfair to minorities. I know discrepancies exist in income, home ownership, education, etc....but I don't think that there is a race-created glass ceiling in today's world.
http://www.blackcommentator.com/ling...profiling.html
http://www.zmag.org/racismandblam.htm
you can start with those
Originally posted by Sondjata
Because in general it's true. There are plenty of records to show that persons classified as white get different treatement that those classified as black when dealing with the justice system. It stats from the initital contact with the police and follows through to the Judge and Jury. While the comment may have no bearing on the fcts of the actual case, in a larger discussion it is an accurate commentary.
Actually the single largest determining variable for how you will be treated by the justice system is your gender. Males, be they white or black are sentences much more harshly than females. The system isn't racist, it is sexist. I assure you that if you compare sentences for the same crime for white males and black females you will find that white males were treated more harshly.
But then I could have sworn this was about state school testing.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
But then I could have sworn this was about state school testing.
I'm sure your misogynist view of the world will see that as sexist too.
Originally posted by Sondjata
http://www.blackcommentator.com/ling...profiling.html
http://www.zmag.org/racismandblam.htm
you can start with those
I can't accept these. The links you provided are total bullshit, with all due respect. They do nothing to prove your point. The second one speaks of the black people in prison. Let me ask you: Isn't it possible that minorities commit more crimes? It's not the justice system on the whole...it's problems in their culture that contribute. It's drug use and it's the reasons behind it. It's poverty...though I doubt we agree on how to cure that. It sure as hell isn't our modern justice system.
I don't mean to flame you, but you'll have to do better than that. Show me conviction rates or differences in sentencing. Don't try and post opinion pieces in The Black Commentator and expect me to give you and inch. Please!
Originally posted by Sondjata
http://www.blackcommentator.com/ling...profiling.html
http://www.zmag.org/racismandblam.htm
you can start with those
Let's also learn about WW2 from theholocaustdidnthappen.com.
Originally posted by bunge
I'm sure your misogynist view of the world will see that as sexist too.
Well you know what they say... if you can't debate or discuss. Call names.
You are welcome to counter my claims that the prison system sentences black women to fewer years for the same crime as white men. She called the system racist. I called it sexist.
Nick
Originally posted by Sondjata
absolutely off the point.
Yes your link about "talking while black", renting apartments, and a study done by one man with him imitating various dialects was so RIGHT ON regarding testing.
BTW, your second link is bunk but I would gladly look at links regarding prison sentencing that didn't just throw all drug sentencing under the same heading. I certainly consider trafficing and dealing worse than use. Likewise most consider marijuana use to hardly merit a mention while things like heroin should still be illegal to even most drug proponants.
If you have a link that breaks it down according to catagory, I would be interested to see it.... in another thread of course.
Nick
Originally posted by SDW2001
Let me ask you: Isn't it possible that minorities commit more crimes?
You know, I already pointed out something you should already have known: bias regarding executions. But here's more:
The perception that African Americans, Hispanics, Asians, and other minorities are more likely to carry drugs than their White counterparts intensifies the complexities of police discretion in stops and searches. The escalating pressure from the war on drugs has led some police officers to target people of color whom police believe to be disproportionally involved in drug use and trafficking. Although some members of the police community suggest that race-based searches are justified because more minority drivers are found with contraband, the empirical evidence amassed to date tends to discredit such arguments. In Lamberth's study on I_95 in Maryland, he found that 28.4 percent of Black drivers and passengers drivers and passengers who were searched were found with contraband. Thus, the probability of finding contraband was the same for Blacks and Whites. Race did not matter. According to the New Jersey attorney general's Interim Report (April 1999), the "hit rates" at which contraband was found among those searched did not differ significantly by race. Only 10.5 percent of the searches of Whites resulted in an arrest or seizure compared to a rate of 13.5 percent for Black motorists. Similarly, in the New York study of "stop and frisk" practices, between 1998 and 1999, the attorney general found that 12.6 percent of Whites stopped were arrested, compared to only 10.5 percent of Blacks and 11.3 percent of Latinos. In a recent U.S. Customs Service study, nationwide data revealed that, while 43 percent of those searched were either Black or Latino, the hit rates for Blacks and Latinos were actually lower than the hit rates for Whites. The study found that 6.7 percent of Whites, 6.3 percent of Blacks, and 2.8 percent of Hispanics had contraband.
http://www.ncjrs.org/pdffiles1/bja/184768.pdf
In other words, statistically, your racist ideas are completely unfounded.
This further demonstrates that widespread racists perceptions still exist in the US. Hell, the things you post show that you have racist ideas that are unfounded. How do these obviously widespread unfounded racist prejudices play into our culture? ....
I agree that incarceration rates, et.al are unrelated to this particular issue ( standardized testing), But an issue of whether someone can ask or make a statement about whether race is a factor in Standardized testing is not race baiting. I have been responding to the race baiting charge, I already made my opinion known as it pertains to standardized testing.
Originally posted by Sondjata
I agree that incarceration rates, et.al are unrelated to this particular issue ( standardized testing),
I think it's very relevant. These people are discussing the issue as if racism against Blacks doesn't exists, yet not only is it demonstrable that racism is widespread, but their own racists prejudices are also being exposed. How someone claiming that Blacks are treated equally in the US can pretend to have any knowledge of race and how it plays into any aspect of life, society or culture is quite a mystery.
Originally posted by SDW2001
I can't accept these. The links you provided are total bullshit, with all due respect. They do nothing to prove your point. The second one speaks of the black people in prison. Let me ask you: Isn't it possible that minorities commit more crimes? It's not the justice system on the whole...it's problems in their culture that contribute. It's drug use and it's the reasons behind it. It's poverty...though I doubt we agree on how to cure that. It sure as hell isn't our modern justice system.
I don't mean to flame you, but you'll have to do better than that. Show me conviction rates or differences in sentencing. Don't try and post opinion pieces in The Black Commentator and expect me to give you and inch. Please!
yo!! Rich white people do more drugs than poor black people. Hello!!!!
Also If one is more likely to be arrested than one is more likely to be convicted. And even in the case court proceedings blacks can find themselves convicted on flimsy evidence. This was just recently demonstrated in Texas where a small town sherriff damn near locked up half a towns black population on drug charges that were later found to be fabricated or plain non-existant.
Originally posted by giant
You know, I already pointed out something you should already have known: bias regarding executions. But here's more:
http://www.ncjrs.org/pdffiles1/bja/184768.pdf
In other words, statistically, your racist ideas are completely unfounded.
This further demonstrates that widespread racists perceptions still exist in the US. Hell, the things you post show that you have racist ideas that are unfounded. How do these obviously widespread unfounded racist prejudices play into our culture? ....
Someone does a study on I-95 in MD and you use it to call me racist? We weren't even talking about drugs for God's sake! I was suggesting that it is POSSBILE that minority crime rates are higher, and I attempted to point to reasons for that. Sondjata was talking about incarceration rates by the way, which I said don;t really have much to do with our current criminal justice system.
I fully agree racial profiling exists (or at least it did until very recently). What I'm saying is that I don't buy the white criminal justice conspiracy theory you obviously subscribe to. I don't believe, in general, that our criminal justice system is racially biased. That's all I'm saying.
pfflam:
I think it's very relevant. These people are discussing the issue as if racism against Blacks doesn't exists, yet not only is it demonstrable that racism is widespread, but their own racists prejudices are also being exposed. How someone claiming that Blacks are treated equally in the US can pretend to have any knowledge of race and how it plays into any aspect of life, society or culture is quite a mystery.
And I think it is a mystery that you can just go around calling people who disgaree on this issue racists. As far as being treated equally, discrimination is illegal and should be punished. Other than the aforementioned racial profiling issue (which many local and state Police Departments have taken extensive measures to correct), how are they not treated equally?
Is it harder for them to get a job? I'd argue just the opposite. Many companies are so afraid to be accused of discrimination that the black applicant has an ADVANTAGE. How about colleges? No, as we all know many universities give extra points to black applicants. How about public services? Not that I've seen. Public transportation? Retail? Not on any wide scale. Oh sure, you'll here about the ocassional bigoted jack ass. But widespread discrimination? Not anymore.
Now, that doesn't mean they aren't at a disadvantage in general. I'm simply arguing that the disadvantage comes more from a socio-economic standpoint, not to mention certain cultural moores that DO exist.
Think what you'd like, but I'm no racist. It is NOT acceptable for you to come in here and start with that shit.
Originally posted by alcimedes
there's nothing to stop black people from investing their money to benefit from the same tax cut, but that's not really the point.
just that blacks on the whole, earn roughly $30,000 less than whites and have nearly non-existant assets aside from bank accounts.
Originally posted by SDW2001
pfflam:
Hey buddy, get your quotes right . . . .I didn't say that. Bother to read . . . stop reacting
The English test is just basic reading comprehension (you read a very short story or article, then answer questions about it). If kids can't pass this test, not only should they not graduate, but the high school should be investigated. There is something dreadfully wrong with a school system that cannot teach children how to read.
Originally posted by SDW2001
Someone does a study on I-95 in MD and you use it to call me racist? We weren't even talking about drugs for God's sake! I was suggesting that it is POSSBILE that minority crime rates are higher, and I attempted to point to reasons for that. Sondjata was talking about incarceration rates by the way, which I said don;t really have much to do with our current criminal justice system.
I fully agree racial profiling exists (or at least it did until very recently). What I'm saying is that I don't buy the white criminal justice conspiracy theory you obviously subscribe to. I don't believe, in general, that our criminal justice system is racially biased. That's all I'm saying.
Can you guys believe this guy is supposed to be a teacher? Aren't there any requirements for that job anymore?
Can you guys believe this guy is supposed to be a teacher? Aren't there any requirements for that job anymore?
They should have some kind of standardized test or something for teachers.
Originally posted by giant
Can you guys believe this guy is supposed to be a teacher? Aren't there any requirements for that job anymore?
sad ain't it?