They should have some kind of standardized test or something for teachers.
Most states do, if you're talking about public schools. They also, you know, have to go through college. The problem, at least here, is that the elementary and secondary ed programs are completely laughable. It doesn't help that education (as an industry) just can't lure the scads of really, really, really sharp people out there away from other professions.
or librarians who think human beings can live on the sun?
this game is FUN!
speaking of which, did you read the news that the canadian oil shale projects have now also just been shut down? Funny, since oil shale production is your criteria for the validity of your statement.
Hey buddy, get your quotes right . . . .I didn't say that. Bother to read . . . stop reacting
"Bother to read". It's called a mistake. Sorry about that.
giant:
Quote:
Can you guys believe this guy is supposed to be a teacher? Aren't there any requirements for that job anymore?
How about you argue the point intead of attempting to insult my intelligence. I stated that our criminal justice system, IMO, is not racially baised against blacks. You obviously disagree. The fact that we disagree doesn't make me stupid. It doesn't even make me wrong. That's the trouble with liberals: Anyone who disagrees is merely an idiot. Anyone who is enlightened MUST agree, afterall.
BTW, you haven't disproved anything I've said. Show me that in the year 2003 a black man is more likely to be found guilty by the courts than a white man. Go ahead...really.
Quote:
Most states do, if you're talking about public schools. They also, you know, have to go through college. The problem, at least here, is that the elementary and secondary ed programs are completely laughable. It doesn't help that education (as an industry) just can't lure the scads of really, really, really sharp people out there away from other professions.
That's right, because I only went into teaching because I wasn't smart enough to do anything else. Don't generalize like that, please. I do agree that education as an industry doesn;t always attract the best candidates, though don't make light of what it takes to get certified and what it takes to learn how to do one's job in education. Teacher's (in a national sense) need to be paid well. That's going to be tough, though, given that it is primarily a taxpayer funded profession.
Quote:
ime for a Giant Reeducation Camp. Or maybe we can ban some teachers for not having the correct thoughts and ideas.
Two Words: Leftist Fascism
As I said, disagree and you are an idiot, a racist, a sexist, and someone who hates all poor people. Freedom of speech....as long as it's liberal speech.
Sondjata:
Quote:
sad ain't it?
Hurry, you'll miss the "insult SDW to avoid his argument" wagon!
If it was your opinion that 2+2=5, it doesn't mean it's correct. The bias is demonstratable, has been repeatedly demonstrated and the only people that attempt to deny it are racists and morons. It's actually more rediculous than denying the Holocaust because it is a current situation that people currently experience and about which data is currently and constantly being collected. Sorry, but saying that Blacks are treated equally in the US (espceially saying they are treated equally in the justice system) is equal to saying people can walk on the sun.
Here's a hint: even though it's apparent the ability to do research is no longer a requirement for teachers in the Penn boondocks, go look up what the word means, and then do that to find out a little of the mountain of info on the topic.
If you refuse to do so and continue with your racial ignorance you are doing nothing less than choosing to hold unfounded racists beliefs.
Quote:
insult SDW to avoid his argument" wagon!
Your 'argument' is fantasy. You would be better calling it your 'disproven belief.'
I've already thoroughly demonstrated bias in the judicial system.
Correctional statistics don't prove anything!!!! Just because there are more black Americans in prison doesn't mean the system is biased. Are you saying many of those people are not guilty? Are you saying there is widespread false conviction and imprisonment???
Quote:
orry, but saying that Blacks are treated equally in the US (espceially saying they are treated equally in the justice system) is equal to saying people can walk on the sun.
Show me! Show me an example of systematic bias in the US! Do I have to shout!
Quote:
Here's a hint: even though it's apparent the ability to do research is no longer a requirement for teachers in the Penn boondocks, go look up what the word means, and then do that to find out a little of the mountain of info on the topic.
And you did research? I'm not the one who brought it up. The burden of proof is on the instigator of the argument. All I said was that I don't believe there is widespread bias against blacks in the US. I admitted there was still racism on an individual basis. If you can show me systematic bias (such as conviction rates or differences in sentencing severity for the same crime), then I'll happily concede.
When looking at people convicted for murder according to laws that allows the death penalty there was no difference between blacks and whites.
But if the race of the killed was introduced it showed that blacks were much more often sentenced to death than their white counterparts (Scott: p<0,001)
And white lifes were much more valuable according to the courts. People killing white people got a harder sentence than those killing blacks (again p<0.001)
The reason why it wasn´t visible when just looking at the race of the guilty person was becuase blacks kill blacks and whites kill whites.
I DID! Unless you want to direct me to some nugget of information then I can't see where you prove cause and effect.
It used to be that the best predictor for SAT scores was the number of bathrooms in your house. Based on the way most people use statistics we should fund a government effort to build 4 bathrooms into every unit in every public housing project.
I DID! Unless you want to direct me to some nugget of information then I can't see where you prove cause and effect.
Anders already went further into something I already posted, so it appears you didn't look. There's still another one up there that I was introduced to in a statistics class, so you are 0 for 2. But hey, maybe you will just go Hume as a way of admitting you spoke too soon.
That's right, because I only went into teaching because I wasn't smart enough to do anything else. Don't generalize like that, please. I do agree that education as an industry doesn;t always attract the best candidates, though don't make light of what it takes to get certified and what it takes to learn how to do one's job in education. Teacher's (in a national sense) need to be paid well. That's going to be tough, though, given that it is primarily a taxpayer funded profession.
Give me a break. I'm becoming convinced that you just disagree with anything I say out of pure habit. Don't confuse me with those people who make ad hominem cracks about you being a teacher. I haven't done that, and I won't do that, not only because it's bad argumentation, but also because I have tremendous respect for people willing to slug it out in primary and secondary education. I don't have the temperament for it, and that's a personal failing on my part, not the institution's.
At any rate, someone made a crack about how there ought to be tests to determine whether teachers are qualified to teach, and I said this:
"Most states do, if you're talking about public schools. They also, you know, have to go through college. The problem, at least here, is that the elementary and secondary ed programs are completely laughable. It doesn't help that education (as an industry) just can't lure the scads of really, really, really sharp people out there away from other professions."
I've added emphasis, but I clearly said "AT LEAST HERE" so that people would know I wasn't talking about ANYTHING BUT THE ELEMENTARY AND SECONDARY ED PROGRAMS HERE AT THE PUBLIC UNIVERSITY WHERE I TEACH. I have no idea what those programs were/are like where you went to school. I don't know what they're like where I got my undergrad. I DO know what they're like HERE.
I didn't make light of anything, and I'm well aware of how the certification exams (I only know about HS certificaion) can be difficult. I didn't imply, suggest, or argue that teachers do what they do because they can't get jobs elsewhere. I said that "the scads of really, really, really sharp people out there" often take jobs in other professions because they can make better money. And that, I argued, is one of the most significant problems with education in America.
Don't accuse me of saying things I didn't say. Especially about education and teaching. I take it seriously.
FWIW, I agree with you that teachers don't get paid enough. I'd argue with you on this bit, though:
Quote:
Teacher's (in a national sense) need to be paid well. That's going to be tough, though, given that it is primarily a taxpayer funded profession.
Teachers don't need to be paid well; they need to be paid EXTREMELY well. Extravagantly, even. Six-figure salaries. We need MORE teachers. We need SMALLER classrooms. We need more teachers with advanced degrees. We need teachers who are incompetent (and they are out there) to suddenly find themselves out of work because of the massive influx of well-educated, committed, and energized minds into the profession. We need for the public education system in this country to be able to lure teachers away from the University system, both in terms of pay and in terms of tenure--but with a heavy weight placed on TEACHING as a compoment of that tenure (as it is here where I work).
You start doing that, and the teaching profession will get awfully competitive awfully quick.
Comments
Originally posted by alcimedes
They should have some kind of standardized test or something for teachers.
Most states do, if you're talking about public schools. They also, you know, have to go through college. The problem, at least here, is that the elementary and secondary ed programs are completely laughable. It doesn't help that education (as an industry) just can't lure the scads of really, really, really sharp people out there away from other professions.
Originally posted by alcimedes
They should have some kind of standardized test or something for teachers.
Racist!
Originally posted by giant
Can you guys believe this guy is supposed to be a teacher? Aren't there any requirements for that job anymore?
Time for a Giant Reeducation Camp. Or maybe we can ban some teachers for not having the correct thoughts and ideas.
Originally posted by Scott
Time for a Giant Reeducation Camp. Or maybe we can ban some teachers for not having the correct thoughts and ideas.
Or maybe you think we should hire teachers that think jellyfish are marsupials?
this game is FUN!
Originally posted by alcimedes
or librarians who think human beings can live on the sun?
this game is FUN!
speaking of which, did you read the news that the canadian oil shale projects have now also just been shut down? Funny, since oil shale production is your criteria for the validity of your statement.
Originally posted by Scott
Yea! Man, you told me.
Sorry. I guess statements don't count unless they accuse someone of being anti-semetic or anti-american.
Originally posted by pfflam
Hey buddy, get your quotes right . . . .I didn't say that. Bother to read . . . stop reacting
"Bother to read". It's called a mistake. Sorry about that.
giant:
Can you guys believe this guy is supposed to be a teacher? Aren't there any requirements for that job anymore?
How about you argue the point intead of attempting to insult my intelligence. I stated that our criminal justice system, IMO, is not racially baised against blacks. You obviously disagree. The fact that we disagree doesn't make me stupid. It doesn't even make me wrong. That's the trouble with liberals: Anyone who disagrees is merely an idiot. Anyone who is enlightened MUST agree, afterall.
BTW, you haven't disproved anything I've said. Show me that in the year 2003 a black man is more likely to be found guilty by the courts than a white man. Go ahead...really.
Most states do, if you're talking about public schools. They also, you know, have to go through college. The problem, at least here, is that the elementary and secondary ed programs are completely laughable. It doesn't help that education (as an industry) just can't lure the scads of really, really, really sharp people out there away from other professions.
That's right, because I only went into teaching because I wasn't smart enough to do anything else.
ime for a Giant Reeducation Camp. Or maybe we can ban some teachers for not having the correct thoughts and ideas.
Two Words: Leftist Fascism
As I said, disagree and you are an idiot, a racist, a sexist, and someone who hates all poor people. Freedom of speech....as long as it's liberal speech.
Sondjata:
sad ain't it?
Hurry, you'll miss the "insult SDW to avoid his argument" wagon!
Originally posted by SDW2001
IMO
If it was your opinion that 2+2=5, it doesn't mean it's correct. The bias is demonstratable, has been repeatedly demonstrated and the only people that attempt to deny it are racists and morons. It's actually more rediculous than denying the Holocaust because it is a current situation that people currently experience and about which data is currently and constantly being collected. Sorry, but saying that Blacks are treated equally in the US (espceially saying they are treated equally in the justice system) is equal to saying people can walk on the sun.
Here's a hint: even though it's apparent the ability to do research is no longer a requirement for teachers in the Penn boondocks, go look up what the word means, and then do that to find out a little of the mountain of info on the topic.
If you refuse to do so and continue with your racial ignorance you are doing nothing less than choosing to hold unfounded racists beliefs.
insult SDW to avoid his argument" wagon!
Your 'argument' is fantasy. You would be better calling it your 'disproven belief.'
I've already thoroughly demonstrated bias in the judicial system.
PS: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/gcorpop.htm
and I've already demonstrated the bias that singles out Blacks on the street
Here's another one: http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/usa/
orry, but saying that Blacks are treated equally in the US (espceially saying they are treated equally in the justice system) is equal to saying people can walk on the sun.
Show me! Show me an example of systematic bias in the US! Do I have to shout!
Here's a hint: even though it's apparent the ability to do research is no longer a requirement for teachers in the Penn boondocks, go look up what the word means, and then do that to find out a little of the mountain of info on the topic.
And you did research? I'm not the one who brought it up. The burden of proof is on the instigator of the argument. All I said was that I don't believe there is widespread bias against blacks in the US. I admitted there was still racism on an individual basis. If you can show me systematic bias (such as conviction rates or differences in sentencing severity for the same crime), then I'll happily concede.
The burden of proving racism is on you, giant.
Originally posted by SDW2001
Show me! Show me an example of systematic bias in the US! Do I have to shout!
I already did. Look up.
BTW: you obviously haven't read any of the studies posted, so you really aren't in any position to discuss them.
Originally posted by Scott
The term "causal correlation" means nothing to these people.
Did you even look?
When looking at people convicted for murder according to laws that allows the death penalty there was no difference between blacks and whites.
But if the race of the killed was introduced it showed that blacks were much more often sentenced to death than their white counterparts (Scott: p<0,001)
And white lifes were much more valuable according to the courts. People killing white people got a harder sentence than those killing blacks (again p<0.001)
The reason why it wasn´t visible when just looking at the race of the guilty person was becuase blacks kill blacks and whites kill whites.
Its a neoclassic in statistical courses.
Originally posted by giant
Did you even look?
I DID! Unless you want to direct me to some nugget of information then I can't see where you prove cause and effect.
It used to be that the best predictor for SAT scores was the number of bathrooms in your house. Based on the way most people use statistics we should fund a government effort to build 4 bathrooms into every unit in every public housing project.
Originally posted by Scott
I DID! Unless you want to direct me to some nugget of information then I can't see where you prove cause and effect.
Anders already went further into something I already posted, so it appears you didn't look. There's still another one up there that I was introduced to in a statistics class, so you are 0 for 2. But hey, maybe you will just go Hume as a way of admitting you spoke too soon.
Originally posted by SDW2001
That's right, because I only went into teaching because I wasn't smart enough to do anything else.
Give me a break. I'm becoming convinced that you just disagree with anything I say out of pure habit. Don't confuse me with those people who make ad hominem cracks about you being a teacher. I haven't done that, and I won't do that, not only because it's bad argumentation, but also because I have tremendous respect for people willing to slug it out in primary and secondary education. I don't have the temperament for it, and that's a personal failing on my part, not the institution's.
At any rate, someone made a crack about how there ought to be tests to determine whether teachers are qualified to teach, and I said this:
"Most states do, if you're talking about public schools. They also, you know, have to go through college. The problem, at least here, is that the elementary and secondary ed programs are completely laughable. It doesn't help that education (as an industry) just can't lure the scads of really, really, really sharp people out there away from other professions."
I've added emphasis, but I clearly said "AT LEAST HERE" so that people would know I wasn't talking about ANYTHING BUT THE ELEMENTARY AND SECONDARY ED PROGRAMS HERE AT THE PUBLIC UNIVERSITY WHERE I TEACH. I have no idea what those programs were/are like where you went to school. I don't know what they're like where I got my undergrad. I DO know what they're like HERE.
I didn't make light of anything, and I'm well aware of how the certification exams (I only know about HS certificaion) can be difficult. I didn't imply, suggest, or argue that teachers do what they do because they can't get jobs elsewhere. I said that "the scads of really, really, really sharp people out there" often take jobs in other professions because they can make better money. And that, I argued, is one of the most significant problems with education in America.
Don't accuse me of saying things I didn't say. Especially about education and teaching. I take it seriously.
FWIW, I agree with you that teachers don't get paid enough. I'd argue with you on this bit, though:
Teacher's (in a national sense) need to be paid well. That's going to be tough, though, given that it is primarily a taxpayer funded profession.
Teachers don't need to be paid well; they need to be paid EXTREMELY well. Extravagantly, even. Six-figure salaries. We need MORE teachers. We need SMALLER classrooms. We need more teachers with advanced degrees. We need teachers who are incompetent (and they are out there) to suddenly find themselves out of work because of the massive influx of well-educated, committed, and energized minds into the profession. We need for the public education system in this country to be able to lure teachers away from the University system, both in terms of pay and in terms of tenure--but with a heavy weight placed on TEACHING as a compoment of that tenure (as it is here where I work).
You start doing that, and the teaching profession will get awfully competitive awfully quick.
Cheers
Scott
then again, race and wealth are correlated.....
but you have to figure out why that is, and that's complicated.