No. Any accuracy in the MacBidouille benchmarks is merely coincidence/luck. They were fabricated. As are the stories about G5 PowerBooks. As are the stories about G5 towers being in production in May.
Wow, your ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance! MacBidouille nailed it and to claim coincidence is... well, I go back to my opening statement. Lionel, at MacBidouille, presented this info first, stuck by it despite comments from ignorant people like....... YOU!!! and he was right!!
What are you going to say when the G5s ship? "I must be seeing things," might be a good start, then hit yourself on the head and do us all a favour!
Moki gave a very tricky statement. If all of the above pans out, then this was a "joke," or he's being ironic. If they were wrong, then he's right.
It's like the old Saturday Night Live episode with Ed Asner, who said something like, "You can never have the nuclear reactor too hot."
Very ambiguous, with a potential for a double meaning.
It will be intresting to see what cards from ati and nvidia we will get with these machenes. If apple says on top of them to alwase have the bleeding edge cards avalible for mac, that will bring more game developers to the mac. Cuz guys, gamers are not gonna come over if there are no games.
Half life 2 and doom 3 available for mac same time as pc, then were in business.
I think you nailed it. It will only take Doom 3 and Half Life (or maybe just Doom 3 ), and the rest amounts to, "if you build it, they will come". If half life and doom 3 both perform significantly faster on Powermac, then gamers will begin migrating to the Mac. At first only a trickle of hard-core gamers will start complimenting their Wintel rigs with Powermacs. But once the hard-core gamers dip their toes in the Mac computing experience, that's when the dam breaks.
Hardware Performance-->Hard-core gamers-->Game Developers-->Hardware driver Optimization-->Serious gamers-->Mass influx of Mac Games-->Casual Gamers-->Return to Hardware Performance
Hopefully this makes sense, but in a nutshell, once the number of Mac gamers reaches a critical mass, it will drive both game AND hardware development. This has always been the catch 22 for Apple, they don't have the performance to attract gamers, and they don't have the gamers to drive performance. In the Wintel world, it's mainly games that drive hardware development. Amazingly, Jobs has used high end digital video, 3d animation and effects, and high end audio to drive performance to insane levels (if rumors are to be believed ).
But no matter if your into games or think they're a waste of time, in the end everyone benefits from the Mac being a thriving game platform. We've got high end video and audio to thank for spurring G5 development, but I also think that when Doom 3 is running fastest on Macs drawing a market segment to Macs, we're going to have to thank John Carmack for giving the Mac platform the support and props that it needed.
A very interesting development just occurred at Id: QUAKE III is now optimized for ALTIVEC! AFAIK this is the only game optimized for Altivec. People are seeing ~10% improvement in FPS, which is nice but not amazing, and in the past Carmack said that Id tried optimizing Quake for Altivec, but the improvements weren't worth the effort. But I suspect this update isn't really for current Macs, but the new Powermacs. How much would Altivec be able to speed up Quake after the FSB bottleneck is removed? Id also used GCC 3.3 to compile this new version of Quake, and if I remember right, it's GCC 3.3 that's getting optimized for the 970. Based on this recent Quake update, Doom 3 will probably have heavy altivec optimizations that make it scream on Powermacs, and droves of Wintel drones are going to start lusting after Macs! The future of Apple is blazing bright now, the best it's been since before Windows.
I think you nailed it. It will only take Doom 3 and Half Life (or maybe just Doom 3 ), and the rest amounts to, "if you build it, they will come".
You make a good point here. I wonder why Apple doesn't make the most kick a$$ game ever and make it only for the Mac like the Ipod? Or even several games?
Fairwell fair people of the Appleinsider! I will be back on Friday to hopefully be VERY amazed, and then go ranting once again about how good the new machines are. Thanks to eveyone for the fun you have given me reading this thread (and all the time wasted and how much sleep I have missed) I just hope the forum is still this lively come Friday night when I get back. IBM 970 FOREVER! (Or make that the next 3 years or so.....) And make this my 500th post! Yeah. It's about time. Oh yeah. Meant to say I went to the Applestore yesterday and talked with an employee about the goof up. He said "Haven't heard about it" so then I proceded to go to slashdot and MacNN and show him the stories and the specs. Said something to the effect of "Those specs look really nice" He got REALLY nervouslike and went on to change the subject to final cut pro 4. Whenever I would talk about the "G5" he got REALLY nervous, so I would suspect this looks good. Perhaps machines are arriving in back but no one can talk about it. Or they know something is up or something. I dunno. Just thought I would share that.
moki, grrrr, stop doing that. Just stop it and tell us the painful truth. Go ahead now. I know too many words beginning with w to pick any. WTF? By quoting 'I Want You' did you mean just to say, 'I want you so ba-a-ad' or, more likely, 'It's driving me ma-a-ad'? Did you?
Perhaps he means who will we see on stage with Steve...
Someone we would be dissapointed seeing at WWDC, like Gates?
If it's "when" that we'll be dissapointed about, well Apple can only wait so long before shipping these beasts. Nobody will buy G4 Powermacs. If they don't announce or ship, then G4 sales will be ok, I guess. Seems that I remember Moki hinting that these beasts WILL be announced however.
Or...
Maybe the "W" word is "weight", as in heavy.
WTF would be so heavy about Powermacs? I'm going to sleep over it, maybe someone will figure it out while I'm snoozin'.
Moki was enigmatic and cryptic. Be careful how you read. We'll know how to interprate him more cometh the Keynote.
The picture isn't clear yet. We got some 'leaked' specs but...'BUT'...Steve is the master showman. Apple just got free advertising, the kind M$ has to pay for as the whole international internet community went wild.
*(And that was just for a little gif with some G5 specs on it.)
The desired effect..? You don't get it, boys. You're already 'IN' the RDF...
So don't attack him, judge him anything. With G5 Macs upon us...whatever their final form...we should turn our scorn on the Wintel braggarts not our reliable sooth sayer. In short, Moki, your posts are most welcome, fun and informative. 'The art of saying nothing yet...'
His hints of more to come are tantalising. It aint just about POWER(hurrah, no 'power' anymore...)Macs...it seems this WWDC is about so much more. Heed his warning?
We DO NOT know any official benchmarks yet. Macdoobie's and Macwhispher's credibility does 'look' vindicated in some form. But it's early days. And if Moki says that Macdoobie got 'lucky' (guessed or extrapolated) or was 'incorrectly' informed...then I'll heed that. This could mean a number of things. Firstly, that the clock speed could be even higher for an 'ultimate' rig (to follow in September?) with quads or anything. We DON'T know. We don't even know what these POWERMacs look like yet! Could mean improved X-serves...an 'X-station' that is way above EVEN the dual 970 2 gigger? I've got the sneaky feeling the 'Shake' purchase leaves crumb of truths... Apple cannot straddle the middle ground of mediocrity anymore. We could see consumer priced towers...with middle ground duals...and high-end workstations with a trident fork attack on the Wintel market. And no doubt either a new consumer chip...but why when you've got a 0.09 970 imminent? More likely a 980 hot on the heels? I don't know. Could we see some exciting X-Grid tech' that links Macs for rendering Lightwave? Or X-Grid of 970s for Pixar's next 'buy'? I think the WWDC is about so much more than 970 POWERMacs.
I think Moki has been consistent and we would do well to treat such an emminent (and elegant ) poster with the respect he deserves.
The 'leak' could be the tip of the mountain for WWDC.
We really don't have the full picture. That much I'm sure of. So don't discount Steve Jobs 'RDF'.
I think we're already in it. The whole Mac net community is in it. And the show aint started yet!
Too pricey? Not available til Sept' for top end? We've had this kind of 'disappointment' from Apple before.
Or that the 'G5' is indeed for the Towers...
...and the 970 hits a new Workstation uber-market above the traditional Apple Towers.
The microprocessor forum aluded to the fact that the G5 (Moto) was still on track that they were aware of.
Personally, I don't see it. But then, I'm not Steve Jobs. But I'd think after the last four years with Moto'...they're on their way out. They don't appear to have a roadmap that can compete with IBM's...
Your reaction, Moki, was one of 'oops' and you did take the specs down voluntarily. I feel confident the specs are 'at least' what we should expect. But nothing else got posted by 'accident' making me think that there could be more to this than meets the eye.
'Why' disappointed. ? Panther will have to be bigger than Jaguar for us not to be 'disappointed' I guess. Nothing Panther has really been leaked.
A tantalising crumb, Moki...but I guess we'll find out 'WHY' on Monday. No?
Hmmm. I hope Apple don't cripple the low end G5 as they have done with G4s in the past (mind you...the G4 has been crippled across the line for sometime now...sorry...couldn't resist...)
Lemon Bon Bon (invitingly...a round of the 'heavy, black stuff' on me...)
I wonder...could Apple have obliged Moto' to pick up the 'G5' ball to avoid a Billion dollar lawsuit and give them the G5 chips at a very cheap price to allow them to cut the price of the towers?
Thus, the 970 might only be, for now...for something 'heavy' server and high-end-workstation orientated?
Or that we'll be disappointed with dual 970s at 2 gig when we see what a 'heavy' 970 Quad can do and 'only' 1.6 970 singles are available immediately..?
The desired effect..? You don't get it, boys. You're already 'IN' the RDF...
Right on! I said this in another thread and was labeled a conspiracy nut.
It's the most likely explanation IMO. Who benefits the most from this "leak"? Apple.
We've established motive.
Who posted the info? Apple, or at least, it appeared on their website. If this were a murder, Jobs would already be doing the perp walk.
But most telling, this tease is just like Jobs and his RDF. It's a beautiful scam for free advertising, and it plays to the cult status of Macs, and to the fact the Mac users care enough to act as the echo-chamber for this so-called leak. This move has style, something Jobs has in abundance.
Some 'out in left field' things I personally would LOVE to see...
Pixar 'sells' RenderMan to Apple, Apple becomes software developer/distributor for RenderMan... Windows support drops with RMv12... Linux/Irix support drops with RMv13, soon afterwards RenderMan becomes default renderer for Maya v7...
Apple manages to wrestle A|w away from SGI, Maya Unlimited port to OS X top priority... Windows support drops with Maya v6... Linux/Irix support drops with Maya v7...
Comments
Originally posted by rjwill246
Originally posted by moki
No. Any accuracy in the MacBidouille benchmarks is merely coincidence/luck. They were fabricated. As are the stories about G5 PowerBooks. As are the stories about G5 towers being in production in May.
Wow, your ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance! MacBidouille nailed it and to claim coincidence is... well, I go back to my opening statement. Lionel, at MacBidouille, presented this info first, stuck by it despite comments from ignorant people like....... YOU!!! and he was right!!
What are you going to say when the G5s ship? "I must be seeing things," might be a good start, then hit yourself on the head and do us all a favour!
Moki gave a very tricky statement. If all of the above pans out, then this was a "joke," or he's being ironic. If they were wrong, then he's right.
It's like the old Saturday Night Live episode with Ed Asner, who said something like, "You can never have the nuclear reactor too hot."
Very ambiguous, with a potential for a double meaning.
Originally posted by iBrowse
I believe he means why, as in Why should anybody be disappointed?...
Perhaps he means who will we see on stage with Steve...
The novel wouldn't be any good if we knew the ending already.
Originally posted by Ti Fighter
It will be intresting to see what cards from ati and nvidia we will get with these machenes. If apple says on top of them to alwase have the bleeding edge cards avalible for mac, that will bring more game developers to the mac. Cuz guys, gamers are not gonna come over if there are no games.
Half life 2 and doom 3 available for mac same time as pc, then were in business.
I think you nailed it. It will only take Doom 3 and Half Life (or maybe just Doom 3
Hardware Performance-->Hard-core gamers-->Game Developers-->Hardware driver Optimization-->Serious gamers-->Mass influx of Mac Games-->Casual Gamers-->Return to Hardware Performance
Hopefully this makes sense, but in a nutshell, once the number of Mac gamers reaches a critical mass, it will drive both game AND hardware development. This has always been the catch 22 for Apple, they don't have the performance to attract gamers, and they don't have the gamers to drive performance. In the Wintel world, it's mainly games that drive hardware development. Amazingly, Jobs has used high end digital video, 3d animation and effects, and high end audio to drive performance to insane levels (if rumors are to be believed
But no matter if your into games or think they're a waste of time, in the end everyone benefits from the Mac being a thriving game platform. We've got high end video and audio to thank for spurring G5 development, but I also think that when Doom 3 is running fastest on Macs drawing a market segment to Macs, we're going to have to thank John Carmack for giving the Mac platform the support and props that it needed.
A very interesting development just occurred at Id: QUAKE III is now optimized for ALTIVEC! AFAIK this is the only game optimized for Altivec. People are seeing ~10% improvement in FPS, which is nice but not amazing, and in the past Carmack said that Id tried optimizing Quake for Altivec, but the improvements weren't worth the effort. But I suspect this update isn't really for current Macs, but the new Powermacs. How much would Altivec be able to speed up Quake after the FSB bottleneck is removed? Id also used GCC 3.3 to compile this new version of Quake, and if I remember right, it's GCC 3.3 that's getting optimized for the 970. Based on this recent Quake update, Doom 3 will probably have heavy altivec optimizations that make it scream on Powermacs, and droves of Wintel drones are going to start lusting after Macs! The future of Apple is blazing bright now, the best it's been since before Windows.
Eh, I'm probably babbling now, pretty loaded, so I'll sign off.
I think you nailed it. It will only take Doom 3 and Half Life (or maybe just Doom 3 ), and the rest amounts to, "if you build it, they will come".
You make a good point here. I wonder why Apple doesn't make the most kick a$$ game ever and make it only for the Mac like the Ipod? Or even several games?
Originally posted by johnsonwax
Perhaps he means who will we see on stage with Steve...
Someone we would be dissapointed seeing at WWDC, like Gates?
If it's "when" that we'll be dissapointed about, well Apple can only wait so long before shipping these beasts. Nobody will buy G4 Powermacs. If they don't announce or ship, then G4 sales will be ok, I guess. Seems that I remember Moki hinting that these beasts WILL be announced however.
Or...
Maybe the "W" word is "weight", as in heavy.
WTF would be so heavy about Powermacs? I'm going to sleep over it, maybe someone will figure it out while I'm snoozin'.
The picture isn't clear yet. We got some 'leaked' specs but...'BUT'...Steve is the master showman. Apple just got free advertising, the kind M$ has to pay for as the whole international internet community went wild.
*(And that was just for a little gif with some G5 specs on it.)
The desired effect..? You don't get it, boys. You're already 'IN' the RDF...
So don't attack him, judge him anything. With G5 Macs upon us...whatever their final form...we should turn our scorn on the Wintel braggarts not our reliable sooth sayer. In short, Moki, your posts are most welcome, fun and informative. 'The art of saying nothing yet...'
His hints of more to come are tantalising. It aint just about POWER(hurrah, no 'power' anymore...)Macs...it seems this WWDC is about so much more. Heed his warning?
We DO NOT know any official benchmarks yet. Macdoobie's and Macwhispher's credibility does 'look' vindicated in some form. But it's early days. And if Moki says that Macdoobie got 'lucky' (guessed or extrapolated) or was 'incorrectly' informed...then I'll heed that. This could mean a number of things. Firstly, that the clock speed could be even higher for an 'ultimate' rig (to follow in September?) with quads or anything. We DON'T know. We don't even know what these POWERMacs look like yet! Could mean improved X-serves...an 'X-station' that is way above EVEN the dual 970 2 gigger? I've got the sneaky feeling the 'Shake' purchase leaves crumb of truths... Apple cannot straddle the middle ground of mediocrity anymore. We could see consumer priced towers...with middle ground duals...and high-end workstations with a trident fork attack on the Wintel market. And no doubt either a new consumer chip...but why when you've got a 0.09 970 imminent? More likely a 980 hot on the heels? I don't know. Could we see some exciting X-Grid tech' that links Macs for rendering Lightwave? Or X-Grid of 970s for Pixar's next 'buy'? I think the WWDC is about so much more than 970 POWERMacs.
I think Moki has been consistent and we would do well to treat such an emminent (and elegant
The 'leak' could be the tip of the mountain for WWDC.
We really don't have the full picture. That much I'm sure of. So don't discount Steve Jobs 'RDF'.
I think we're already in it. The whole Mac net community is in it. And the show aint started yet!
Should be electric.
Lemon Bon Bon
"What" is the wrong "W" word.
'Why'?
Too pricey? Not available til Sept' for top end? We've had this kind of 'disappointment' from Apple before.
Or that the 'G5' is indeed for the Towers...
...and the 970 hits a new Workstation uber-market above the traditional Apple Towers.
The microprocessor forum aluded to the fact that the G5 (Moto) was still on track that they were aware of.
Personally, I don't see it. But then, I'm not Steve Jobs. But I'd think after the last four years with Moto'...they're on their way out. They don't appear to have a roadmap that can compete with IBM's...
Your reaction, Moki, was one of 'oops' and you did take the specs down voluntarily. I feel confident the specs are 'at least' what we should expect. But nothing else got posted by 'accident' making me think that there could be more to this than meets the eye.
'Why' disappointed. ? Panther will have to be bigger than Jaguar for us not to be 'disappointed' I guess. Nothing Panther has really been leaked.
A tantalising crumb, Moki...but I guess we'll find out 'WHY' on Monday. No?
Hmmm. I hope Apple don't cripple the low end G5 as they have done with G4s in the past (mind you...the G4 has been crippled across the line for sometime now...sorry...couldn't resist...)
Lemon Bon Bon (invitingly...a round of the 'heavy, black stuff' on me...)
Thus, the 970 might only be, for now...for something 'heavy' server and high-end-workstation orientated?
Or that we'll be disappointed with dual 970s at 2 gig when we see what a 'heavy' 970 Quad can do and 'only' 1.6 970 singles are available immediately..?
Curious.
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by moki
Nope. You'll see...
Moki when you first mentioned "Heavy" I didn't think of it as heavy as in weighs alot but as in expect BIG anouncments(or lots of suprises)
so you wanna set me straight?
p.s.
and you still havn't replied to my former post, page 18 or 19
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
The desired effect..? You don't get it, boys. You're already 'IN' the RDF...
Right on! I said this in another thread and was labeled a conspiracy nut.
It's the most likely explanation IMO. Who benefits the most from this "leak"? Apple.
We've established motive.
Who posted the info? Apple, or at least, it appeared on their website. If this were a murder, Jobs would already be doing the perp walk.
But most telling, this tease is just like Jobs and his RDF. It's a beautiful scam for free advertising, and it plays to the cult status of Macs, and to the fact the Mac users care enough to act as the echo-chamber for this so-called leak. This move has style, something Jobs has in abundance.
Originally posted by moki
"What" is the wrong "W" word.
when...
...so we all have a bit of a wait before we can get hold of them.
Originally posted by johnsonwax
Nothing about this strikes me as 'heavy'. Methinks that perhaps what you were expecting next week is still a mystery to us. Would that be correct?
The new G5s are in fact nuclear powered, and "heavy" is a reference to the heavy water used at a moderator within the built-in reactors.
Barto
i'm not trying to get you to prove anything, cuz i don't think you have squat. i just think you are annoying.
Hey, it could always be "wow" instead.
I think W = Workstation...
The specs are probably correct for the consumer/prosumer/'lowend' professional machines...
But this new workstation is probably a tower/rackmount configuration...
Might not be available from the Apple Store, might be something you need to get from the same distribution channel that handles Shake sales...
Probably weighs a ton...
Probably minimum of duals, with quad (and hopefully octo) CPU configurations available...
Possibility of the Octo CPU configuration coming in a deskside unit (on casters), a la the old Onyx desksides from Silicon Graphics...
WAY more RAM (since I think the RAM slots are allocated to four per CPU, how that works I don't know), up to 64GB with forthcoming 2GB DIMMs...
Possibility of built-in hardware RAID (S-ATA based)...
Possibility of built-in Fibre Channel...
Definate Pro-level graphics cards - QuadroFXs & FireGLs...
Some 'out in left field' things I personally would LOVE to see...
Pixar 'sells' RenderMan to Apple, Apple becomes software developer/distributor for RenderMan... Windows support drops with RMv12... Linux/Irix support drops with RMv13, soon afterwards RenderMan becomes default renderer for Maya v7...
Apple manages to wrestle A|w away from SGI, Maya Unlimited port to OS X top priority... Windows support drops with Maya v6... Linux/Irix support drops with Maya v7...
Shake drops Linux/Irix support with v4...
Hollywood is run totally on Mac OS X...
Hey, some of it could happen!
;^p
Originally posted by MacRonin
W
Dubya is going to introduce the new machines?