Both sides are too quick to dismiss each other as 'terrorists' or 'anti-semite'.
Each side has legitimate grievances. Due to the inept way that the Brits, the UN, and the US have acted since WW 1 (Brits promised Palstenians sovereignty, then reneged etc. etc.) the situation has polarised.
Are Hamas 'terrorists'? To me their attacks are the natural outbursts of a people who have been oppressed/humiliated for decades. Can you not feel empathy for their situation? They were removed from their homeland through multiple wars, and now millions of live in crowded squalor. They attack in the only way they can.
If you saw the movie 'The Pianist' you would notice a frightning similarity between the experiences of Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto in WW2 and what the Palestinians experience today. Checkpoints, ID cards, even a WALL SURROUNDING WHERE THEY LIVE. Israel's use of MILITARY WEAPONS SUCH AS TANKS AND HELECOPTER GUNSHIPS is reminiscint of the Nazi's attempt to crack down on the Jewish uprising in 1943. The irony is sickening.
Israelis have a right to feel agrieved. Noone wants to live in fear of suicide bombings. But how productive have their counter-strikes against Hamas been? They only escalate the situation. Hamas claims they are at war with all of Israel. It hasn't always been this way. They initially only attacked settlers who further encroached on Palestinian land. Why are they now at war with Israel? Could it be the constant raids, the thousands of imprisonments, the provocative acts of people such as Sharon? I don't think Hamas will soften its tone until Israel adopts a new approach. Pragmatism is called for.
Can either side back down? Can either side compromise? In any event, a bunch of fat-cat Americans attemtpting to quickly resolve the situation for political expediance are only going to worsen the situation. It is unfortunate the Dubya decided that it was 'us or them' and failed to realise that the only tenable future is a united one.
This was the basis of your argument Tulkas, and you have to admit now that you were completely wrong. Because both sides were taking steps, the attacks from Israel were damaging to the process and a severe danger for overall peace in the Mid-East and subsequently the world.
Actually, the basis for my arguement, more of a statement of fact was "At the time Israel was starting to remove settlements and was pulling troops out of some of the villages. " To which you replied "Actually I think this is not true. They might remove some settlements, but they're increasing their land mass."
So, quite obviously, my statement was 100% correct and factual, whereas your denial, was just that, a denial of fact with a bit of truth thrown in for validation.
So, quite obviously, my statement was 100% correct and factual, whereas your denial, was just that, a denial of fact with a bit of truth thrown in for validation.
Your also stated: "a ceasefire by the palestinians was never a part of the road map". Which wasn't exactly 100% factual.
You're both right about the other not being 100% correct.
Comments
Each side has legitimate grievances. Due to the inept way that the Brits, the UN, and the US have acted since WW 1 (Brits promised Palstenians sovereignty, then reneged etc. etc.) the situation has polarised.
Are Hamas 'terrorists'? To me their attacks are the natural outbursts of a people who have been oppressed/humiliated for decades. Can you not feel empathy for their situation? They were removed from their homeland through multiple wars, and now millions of live in crowded squalor. They attack in the only way they can.
If you saw the movie 'The Pianist' you would notice a frightning similarity between the experiences of Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto in WW2 and what the Palestinians experience today. Checkpoints, ID cards, even a WALL SURROUNDING WHERE THEY LIVE. Israel's use of MILITARY WEAPONS SUCH AS TANKS AND HELECOPTER GUNSHIPS is reminiscint of the Nazi's attempt to crack down on the Jewish uprising in 1943. The irony is sickening.
Israelis have a right to feel agrieved. Noone wants to live in fear of suicide bombings. But how productive have their counter-strikes against Hamas been? They only escalate the situation. Hamas claims they are at war with all of Israel. It hasn't always been this way. They initially only attacked settlers who further encroached on Palestinian land. Why are they now at war with Israel? Could it be the constant raids, the thousands of imprisonments, the provocative acts of people such as Sharon? I don't think Hamas will soften its tone until Israel adopts a new approach. Pragmatism is called for.
Can either side back down? Can either side compromise? In any event, a bunch of fat-cat Americans attemtpting to quickly resolve the situation for political expediance are only going to worsen the situation. It is unfortunate the Dubya decided that it was 'us or them' and failed to realise that the only tenable future is a united one.
Originally posted by bunge
This was the basis of your argument Tulkas, and you have to admit now that you were completely wrong. Because both sides were taking steps, the attacks from Israel were damaging to the process and a severe danger for overall peace in the Mid-East and subsequently the world.
Actually, the basis for my arguement, more of a statement of fact was "At the time Israel was starting to remove settlements and was pulling troops out of some of the villages. " To which you replied "Actually I think this is not true. They might remove some settlements, but they're increasing their land mass."
So, quite obviously, my statement was 100% correct and factual, whereas your denial, was just that, a denial of fact with a bit of truth thrown in for validation.
People have to be blindly stupid to think this is acceptable.
Originally posted by bunge
Who did I insult?
Hmm...perhaps those that think this is acceptable? You call them "blindly stupid."
Originally posted by Tulkas
So, quite obviously, my statement was 100% correct and factual, whereas your denial, was just that, a denial of fact with a bit of truth thrown in for validation.
Your also stated: "a ceasefire by the palestinians was never a part of the road map". Which wasn't exactly 100% factual.
You're both right about the other not being 100% correct.
Let's move on.
Nice post ...eh... Hungdaddy.