Maybe the Israelis and Palestinians finally figure out that they shouldn't fight when they kill each other off. That and the we (the U.S.) shouldn't get involved. Let them deal with it themselves. No point in getting involved in the mindless suicide of two religious groups.
Haven't you learned yet? ALWAYS BLAME THE JEW Learning this simple rule will help you understand the point of few of many of our learned liberal colleagues.
Oh, [wtf] ... [spare me anymore of that crapola] please. It may work with media tards and politicians, but let's dispense with the Jewish guilt trip thing shall we? At least try to be subtle about it for cryin out loud.
You know, I don't think I have ever - once - heard a Jewish or Israeli individual come out and admit "Yah, we screwed that one up" or "Yep, we are to blame for this latest problem" or "It was a mistake for us to launch that particular attack". However, I frequently hear "we've been attacked! we'll defend to the death, you 9-11 flag-waving hypocrits!"
Admit it: the Israelis are their own worst enemies in the peace process, because those with power and influence refuse to give anything up in the process, and also refuse to accept any blame for anything. Proud, arrogant, greedy Israelis are the predominant cause of the continued violence IMO... note I say predominant, not "only".
OK, let me ask you this simple question - Do you seriously believe that were the palestinians to stop all attacks on Israelis tomorrow Israel would not put down its arms too?
Would they stop the settlements as well? The answer to that has been, up until this point, no.
The moment they established their state. (consisting of 400,000 people ) the combined forces of all the surrounding arabic countries declared unilateral war on the fledgling state of Israel.
Note well..... Israel did not declare war in them
They declared war on Israel.....OK !
Only an idiot would suggest otherwise.
So it was the Arabic states who were the aggressors OK !
WHY THE PALESTINIANS FLED
As a result of hysterical propaganda from the Arab radio stations and newspapers, over a million Palestinians fled the hostilities. Israel on its behalf did NOT inititiate this blind panic into exile.
As the weeks and months passed into years & decades, successive Israeli governments became deeply apprehensive as to what effect the re-absorption of a 1,000,000 + Palestinian refugees would have on it's own security. They feared being swamped and having to fight for survival all over again.Hence the initial reluctance of Israel to absorb on mass, such numbers.
The plight of the Palestinan refugees could have been solved decades ago with the willing co-operation of all neighbouring arabic states. But it was these same states who continued in the belief that Israel could be crushed militarily.
WHO KEEPS THE PALESTINIAN PROBLEM GOING ?
The Palestinian refugee question has long been a pawn of power politics ( regional & international ). However it is often forgotten that those with the MOST Palestinian blood on their hands are the Arabic states themselves.
Blaming all the middle eastern problems on Israel serves as a neat slight of hands trick that certain of these countries continue to use to stop their own people focussing on their government's endemic corruption and incompetence.
Hamas etc are a reaction to all these failures, but like many in the region who oppose Israel, they would rather perpetuate a fantasy map based on the non existence of Israel than deal with the reality that actually is.
i think you really need to read more about the israel founding fathers.
israel is the most profound, fascinating, infuriating, and mostly misunderstood places in the world.
it's a nut a/i'ers are not going to crack.
i love israel, and it should be a place all people should be able to call home. and it can happen, but not until everyone puts their blame away.
funny thing is, when i was last there (5 years ago?) i was in a club in tel aviv were muslims and jews disco'd til dawn. i left feeling great about the future. in haifa they still lived amicably up til a few months ago.
i'm very tired of this thread. whatever happens is whatever is going to happen, and i don't think i can read any more of this nonsense.
You know, I don't think I have ever - once - heard a Jewish or Israeli individual come out and admit "Yah, we screwed that one up" or "Yep, we are to blame for this latest problem" or "It was a mistake for us to launch that particular attack". However, I frequently hear "we've been attacked! we'll defend to the death, you 9-11 flag-waving hypocrits!"
...
Well you haven't been listening then. Like any liberal democracy the voices in Israel are as varied as any other democracy. Jews all over the world take exception to Israel's action. One jew in Paris was beaten when he joined a peace rally that turned into an anti-Jew hatefest.
But what do you have on the other side? When ever do you hear an arab muslim stand up and say loudly that terror is not the answer and that Hamas, IJ, PA et al are the wrong solution and work against peace and Islam? Never! You never hear that. They are either to brainwashed or I think to afraid to say so. Say the wrong thing in Arafat's territory and you'll end up dead and then ipso facto sentenced to death by the PA "courts" as a jewish collaborator.
When ever do you hear an arab muslim stand up and say loudly that terror is not the answer and that Hamas, IJ, PA et al are the wrong solution and work against peace and Islam?
isn't that what the students in Iran have been saying for years now? maybe not, i stopped listening to NPR during their funds week.
Here we go with the "Blame the Jews" thing again. Cut it out already!
Scott, I'm saying "Blame the Israelis as much as the Palestinians"... because face it, it's pretty damn close to a 50/50 problem here. At this point there isn't much "high ground" to be claimed, if you know what I'm saying.
The fact that the people I am criticizing are Jewish, is pretty much immaterial to the argument I'm making, which is that pride, arrogance and greed are getting in the way of the peace process. For some reason the Israeli government refuses to take a step towards the high ground, why do you suppose that is? Are these men and women - some of the most intelligent in the world - simply incapable of thinking their way through this...or are they letting something get in the way? Looking for excuses NOT to take the high ground maybe?
I don't know how many different ways one can make the point I'm trying to make, but is it that hard to see two kids in the sand box with bloody noses, and the wiser of the two simply allows himself to constantly get pulled back into a brawl? Over-simplified sure, but to some degree this is what we have -- a strong, intelligent kid who doesn't know how to walk away from the beligerent kid, who, knows of no other way to "best" the strong kid, other than to bloody his nose.
Someone has to take the high ground...do you think the little insecure beligerent kid is going to take it? No. The Palestinians have to be lead to a solution they can live with, they will not do the leading....
Here we go with the "Blame the Jews" thing again. Cut it out already!
Scott, I'm saying "Blame the Israelis as much as the Palestinians"... because face it, it's pretty damn close to a 50/50 problem here. At this point there isn't much "high ground" to be claimed, if you know what I'm saying.
The fact that the people I am criticizing are Jewish, is pretty much immaterial to the argument I'm making, which is that pride, arrogance and greed are getting in the way of the peace process. For some reason the Israeli government refuses to take a step towards the high ground, why do you suppose that is? Are these men and women - some of the most intelligent in the world - simply incapable of thinking their way through this...or are they letting something get in the way? Looking for excuses NOT to take the high ground maybe?
I don't know how many different ways one can make the point I'm trying to make, but is it that hard to see two kids in the sand box with bloody noses, and the wiser of the two simply allows himself to constantly get pulled back into a brawl? Over-simplified sure, but to some degree this is what we have -- a strong, intelligent kid who doesn't know how to walk away from the beligerent kid, who, knows of no other way to "best" the strong kid, other than to bloody his nose.
Someone has to take the high ground...do you think the little insecure beligerent kid is going to take it? No. The Palestinians have to be lead to a solution they can live with, they will not do the leading....
you mean typical jewish arrogance - don't you moogs.
does it sound TOO racist to say twice? but just enough to say once?
you mean typical jewish arrogance - don't you moogs.
Perhaps Israeli arrogance is better, but I'm sure that will still rub some people the wrong way.
rashumon,
I really hope you're correct and Sharon realizes that peace is his, and Israel's, only option. I don't see it in him yet though, and I believe this attack was an example of his inability to work towards peace.
Oh, [wtf] ... [spare me anymore of that crapola] please. It may work with media tards and politicians, but let's dispense with the Jewish guilt trip thing shall we? At least try to be subtle about it for cryin out loud.
That's right Moogs, just because you say you aren't spewing "blame the jew" crap, means that you aren't. It is a very common tact for anti-semites to take to say "but I ain't blaming it all on the jews." Your quote in another thread, was very telling of you true beliefs about this conflict. "Typical Jewish arrogance / pride."
BR has said I throw around accusations of anti-semitism and nazi like behaviour to easily. I think that even he might agree you comments are vile and disgusting. Why do you even try to be coy about your hatred of the jews. Be a man and at least stand up for your beliefs.
Quote:
Originally posted by Moogs
You know, I don't think I have ever - once - heard a Jewish or Israeli individual come out and admit "Yah, we screwed that one up" or "Yep, we are to blame for this latest problem" or "It was a mistake for us to launch that particular attack".
Then you are a very sheltered person.
Quote:
Originally posted by Moogs
Admit it: the Israelis are their own worst enemies in the peace process, because those with power and influence refuse to give anything up in the process, and also refuse to accept any blame for anything.
You are a liar. Camp David was killed by Arafat. Plain and simple. But, that is the fault of prideful arrogant jews right? (to use your own words) Israel negotiates the return of what, 98% of the OT, but they are unwilling to give up anything. People like Bunge suggest Israel should accept a peace where Hamas is allowed unfettered access to murder Israelis, and Israel wants a peace where they are secure and that then is again an example of Israeli arrogance.
Quote:
Originally posted by Moogs
Proud, arrogant, greedy Israelis are the predominant cause of the continued violence IMO... note I say predominant, not "only".
Again, why do you argue that I should bring up your single minded blame of the jews for everything, when you so obviously do? Your list of abjectives for describing jews is only missing comments about blood drinking and hooked noses to be complete. Come out of denial and just admit that you will blame the jews regardless of the situation.
Here we go with the "Blame the Jews" thing again. Cut it out already!
Keep doing it, regardless of reality, and that arguement will inevitably come up.
Quote:
Originally posted by Moogs
The fact that the people I am criticizing are Jewish, is pretty much immaterial to the argument I'm making, which is that pride, arrogance and greed are getting in the way of the peace process. For some reason the Israeli government refuses to take a step towards the high ground, why do you suppose that is? Are these men and women - some of the most intelligent in the world - simply incapable of thinking their way through this...or are they letting something get in the way? Looking for excuses NOT to take the high ground maybe?
Hmmm..could it be the security of their own people? No that couldn't be it, they are after all typically arrogant jews. (again, to use your own words)
Quote:
Originally posted by Moogs
I don't know how many different ways one can make the point I'm trying to make, but is it that hard to see two kids in the sand box with bloody noses, and the wiser of the two simply allows himself to constantly get pulled back into a brawl? Over-simplified sure, but to some degree this is what we have -- a strong, intelligent kid who doesn't know how to walk away from the beligerent kid, who, knows of no other way to "best" the strong kid, other than to bloody his nose.
An appropriate analogy in some regards.
At what point in you analogy, does the strong, wiser of the two react as he does out of typical greed, arrogance and pride? I guess his acting out of self-defence is not allowed, since he is a jew.
Quote:
Originally posted by Moogs
Someone has to take the high ground...do you think the little insecure beligerent kid is going to take it? No. The Palestinians have to be lead to a solution they can live with, they will not do the leading....
How about this as a solution to lead them to: Stop killing jews and the jews will stop killing Palestinians. Since Hamas etc al refuse to do so in any meaningful way, this is still Israel's fault how?
Perhaps Israeli arrogance is better, but I'm sure that will still rub some people the wrong way.
Complete it and see how it rubs you. Typical Israeli arrogance/pride.
Replace what you want, it still has a familiar ring to it, doesn't it?
Once you recoqnise that as the root cause of the problem, you come to the same conclusions Moogs has...as others have. Perhaps you will also come to the same Final Solution I am sure Moogs has in mind.
How many times have a lie to be told before veryon e start to believe it?
Not even the people involved (from the Israeli and american side) share your POW.
Somewhere in the not too distant future, Arafat & Sharon will be wowing the audiences in Broadway, where they have been playing " The Odd couple " to rave reviews.
In the meantime, the new movers & shakers in the midle east will have patched up their differences and the whole place will be flooded with tourists taking photos of the original ark, buying bits of the true cross, eating shiskababs and generally doing the Funky Disko...
Fact: Arafat rejected the 2000 Camp David accord. Who denies this?
Noone is denying that. But that has nothing to do with who killed it.
Have you followed th erecent conference at UTA to understand what actually happened at Camp David? If you had you would understand that to put the blame on Arafat alone (or even the large part of the blame) is false.
Noone is denying that. But that has nothing to do with who killed it.
Have you followed th erecent conference at UTA to understand what actually happened at Camp David? If you had you would understand that to put the blame on Arafat alone (or even the large part of the blame) is false.
So Israel comes to the table with an offer brokered by Clinton. The 3 parties spend 15 days hammering it out and Arafat Rejects it. Arafat also publically states that any agreement with Israel will be used only as a step in the primary goal of eliminating Israel and any treaties will be broken when they serve this goal. But, he is still not held responsible? Let me guess who is to blame.
So Israel comes to the table with an offer brokered by Clinton. The 3 parties spend 3 days hammering it out and Arafat Rejects it. Arafat also publically states that any agreement with Israel will be used only as a step in the primary goal of eliminating Israel and any treaties will be broken when they serve this goal. But, he is still not held responsible? Let me guess who is to blame.
Let me try again: Did you follow the conference? Read any of the contributions?
Comments
Originally posted by Tulkas
Haven't you learned yet? ALWAYS BLAME THE JEW Learning this simple rule will help you understand the point of few of many of our learned liberal colleagues.
Oh, [wtf] ... [spare me anymore of that crapola] please. It may work with media tards and politicians, but let's dispense with the Jewish guilt trip thing shall we? At least try to be subtle about it for cryin out loud.
You know, I don't think I have ever - once - heard a Jewish or Israeli individual come out and admit "Yah, we screwed that one up" or "Yep, we are to blame for this latest problem" or "It was a mistake for us to launch that particular attack". However, I frequently hear "we've been attacked! we'll defend to the death, you 9-11 flag-waving hypocrits!"
Admit it: the Israelis are their own worst enemies in the peace process, because those with power and influence refuse to give anything up in the process, and also refuse to accept any blame for anything. Proud, arrogant, greedy Israelis are the predominant cause of the continued violence IMO... note I say predominant, not "only".
Originally posted by rashumon
OK, let me ask you this simple question - Do you seriously believe that were the palestinians to stop all attacks on Israelis tomorrow Israel would not put down its arms too?
Would they stop the settlements as well? The answer to that has been, up until this point, no.
It all goes back to Israel's formation 1948-49.
The moment they established their state. (consisting of 400,000 people ) the combined forces of all the surrounding arabic countries declared unilateral war on the fledgling state of Israel.
Note well..... Israel did not declare war in them
They declared war on Israel.....OK !
Only an idiot would suggest otherwise.
So it was the Arabic states who were the aggressors OK !
WHY THE PALESTINIANS FLED
As a result of hysterical propaganda from the Arab radio stations and newspapers, over a million Palestinians fled the hostilities. Israel on its behalf did NOT inititiate this blind panic into exile.
As the weeks and months passed into years & decades, successive Israeli governments became deeply apprehensive as to what effect the re-absorption of a 1,000,000 + Palestinian refugees would have on it's own security. They feared being swamped and having to fight for survival all over again.Hence the initial reluctance of Israel to absorb on mass, such numbers.
The plight of the Palestinan refugees could have been solved decades ago with the willing co-operation of all neighbouring arabic states. But it was these same states who continued in the belief that Israel could be crushed militarily.
WHO KEEPS THE PALESTINIAN PROBLEM GOING ?
The Palestinian refugee question has long been a pawn of power politics ( regional & international ). However it is often forgotten that those with the MOST Palestinian blood on their hands are the Arabic states themselves.
Blaming all the middle eastern problems on Israel serves as a neat slight of hands trick that certain of these countries continue to use to stop their own people focussing on their government's endemic corruption and incompetence.
Hamas etc are a reaction to all these failures, but like many in the region who oppose Israel, they would rather perpetuate a fantasy map based on the non existence of Israel than deal with the reality that actually is.
israel is the most profound, fascinating, infuriating, and mostly misunderstood places in the world.
it's a nut a/i'ers are not going to crack.
i love israel, and it should be a place all people should be able to call home. and it can happen, but not until everyone puts their blame away.
funny thing is, when i was last there (5 years ago?) i was in a club in tel aviv were muslims and jews disco'd til dawn. i left feeling great about the future. in haifa they still lived amicably up til a few months ago.
i'm very tired of this thread. whatever happens is whatever is going to happen, and i don't think i can read any more of this nonsense.
it's bad enough i have to read it in the papers.
i hope it works out.
en shallah.
peace.
shalom.
Originally posted by Moogs
...
You know, I don't think I have ever - once - heard a Jewish or Israeli individual come out and admit "Yah, we screwed that one up" or "Yep, we are to blame for this latest problem" or "It was a mistake for us to launch that particular attack". However, I frequently hear "we've been attacked! we'll defend to the death, you 9-11 flag-waving hypocrits!"
...
Well you haven't been listening then. Like any liberal democracy the voices in Israel are as varied as any other democracy. Jews all over the world take exception to Israel's action. One jew in Paris was beaten when he joined a peace rally that turned into an anti-Jew hatefest.
But what do you have on the other side? When ever do you hear an arab muslim stand up and say loudly that terror is not the answer and that Hamas, IJ, PA et al are the wrong solution and work against peace and Islam? Never! You never hear that. They are either to brainwashed or I think to afraid to say so. Say the wrong thing in Arafat's territory and you'll end up dead and then ipso facto sentenced to death by the PA "courts" as a jewish collaborator.
But eff that. Blame the Jews.
When ever do you hear an arab muslim stand up and say loudly that terror is not the answer and that Hamas, IJ, PA et al are the wrong solution and work against peace and Islam?
isn't that what the students in Iran have been saying for years now? maybe not, i stopped listening to NPR during their funds week.
Scott, I'm saying "Blame the Israelis as much as the Palestinians"... because face it, it's pretty damn close to a 50/50 problem here. At this point there isn't much "high ground" to be claimed, if you know what I'm saying.
The fact that the people I am criticizing are Jewish, is pretty much immaterial to the argument I'm making, which is that pride, arrogance and greed are getting in the way of the peace process. For some reason the Israeli government refuses to take a step towards the high ground, why do you suppose that is? Are these men and women - some of the most intelligent in the world - simply incapable of thinking their way through this...or are they letting something get in the way? Looking for excuses NOT to take the high ground maybe?
I don't know how many different ways one can make the point I'm trying to make, but is it that hard to see two kids in the sand box with bloody noses, and the wiser of the two simply allows himself to constantly get pulled back into a brawl? Over-simplified sure, but to some degree this is what we have -- a strong, intelligent kid who doesn't know how to walk away from the beligerent kid, who, knows of no other way to "best" the strong kid, other than to bloody his nose.
Someone has to take the high ground...do you think the little insecure beligerent kid is going to take it? No. The Palestinians have to be lead to a solution they can live with, they will not do the leading....
Originally posted by Moogs
Here we go with the "Blame the Jews" thing again. Cut it out already!
Scott, I'm saying "Blame the Israelis as much as the Palestinians"... because face it, it's pretty damn close to a 50/50 problem here. At this point there isn't much "high ground" to be claimed, if you know what I'm saying.
The fact that the people I am criticizing are Jewish, is pretty much immaterial to the argument I'm making, which is that pride, arrogance and greed are getting in the way of the peace process. For some reason the Israeli government refuses to take a step towards the high ground, why do you suppose that is? Are these men and women - some of the most intelligent in the world - simply incapable of thinking their way through this...or are they letting something get in the way? Looking for excuses NOT to take the high ground maybe?
I don't know how many different ways one can make the point I'm trying to make, but is it that hard to see two kids in the sand box with bloody noses, and the wiser of the two simply allows himself to constantly get pulled back into a brawl? Over-simplified sure, but to some degree this is what we have -- a strong, intelligent kid who doesn't know how to walk away from the beligerent kid, who, knows of no other way to "best" the strong kid, other than to bloody his nose.
Someone has to take the high ground...do you think the little insecure beligerent kid is going to take it? No. The Palestinians have to be lead to a solution they can live with, they will not do the leading....
you mean typical jewish arrogance - don't you moogs.
does it sound TOO racist to say twice? but just enough to say once?
Originally posted by grad student
you mean typical jewish arrogance - don't you moogs.
Perhaps Israeli arrogance is better, but I'm sure that will still rub some people the wrong way.
rashumon,
I really hope you're correct and Sharon realizes that peace is his, and Israel's, only option. I don't see it in him yet though, and I believe this attack was an example of his inability to work towards peace.
Originally posted by Moogs
Oh, [wtf] ... [spare me anymore of that crapola] please. It may work with media tards and politicians, but let's dispense with the Jewish guilt trip thing shall we? At least try to be subtle about it for cryin out loud.
That's right Moogs, just because you say you aren't spewing "blame the jew" crap, means that you aren't. It is a very common tact for anti-semites to take to say "but I ain't blaming it all on the jews." Your quote in another thread, was very telling of you true beliefs about this conflict. "Typical Jewish arrogance / pride."
BR has said I throw around accusations of anti-semitism and nazi like behaviour to easily. I think that even he might agree you comments are vile and disgusting. Why do you even try to be coy about your hatred of the jews. Be a man and at least stand up for your beliefs.
Originally posted by Moogs
You know, I don't think I have ever - once - heard a Jewish or Israeli individual come out and admit "Yah, we screwed that one up" or "Yep, we are to blame for this latest problem" or "It was a mistake for us to launch that particular attack".
Then you are a very sheltered person.
Originally posted by Moogs
Admit it: the Israelis are their own worst enemies in the peace process, because those with power and influence refuse to give anything up in the process, and also refuse to accept any blame for anything.
You are a liar. Camp David was killed by Arafat. Plain and simple. But, that is the fault of prideful arrogant jews right? (to use your own words) Israel negotiates the return of what, 98% of the OT, but they are unwilling to give up anything. People like Bunge suggest Israel should accept a peace where Hamas is allowed unfettered access to murder Israelis, and Israel wants a peace where they are secure and that then is again an example of Israeli arrogance.
Originally posted by Moogs
Proud, arrogant, greedy Israelis are the predominant cause of the continued violence IMO... note I say predominant, not "only".
Again, why do you argue that I should bring up your single minded blame of the jews for everything, when you so obviously do? Your list of abjectives for describing jews is only missing comments about blood drinking and hooked noses to be complete. Come out of denial and just admit that you will blame the jews regardless of the situation.
Originally posted by Moogs
Here we go with the "Blame the Jews" thing again. Cut it out already!
Keep doing it, regardless of reality, and that arguement will inevitably come up.
Originally posted by Moogs
The fact that the people I am criticizing are Jewish, is pretty much immaterial to the argument I'm making, which is that pride, arrogance and greed are getting in the way of the peace process. For some reason the Israeli government refuses to take a step towards the high ground, why do you suppose that is? Are these men and women - some of the most intelligent in the world - simply incapable of thinking their way through this...or are they letting something get in the way? Looking for excuses NOT to take the high ground maybe?
Hmmm..could it be the security of their own people? No that couldn't be it, they are after all typically arrogant jews. (again, to use your own words)
Originally posted by Moogs
I don't know how many different ways one can make the point I'm trying to make, but is it that hard to see two kids in the sand box with bloody noses, and the wiser of the two simply allows himself to constantly get pulled back into a brawl? Over-simplified sure, but to some degree this is what we have -- a strong, intelligent kid who doesn't know how to walk away from the beligerent kid, who, knows of no other way to "best" the strong kid, other than to bloody his nose.
An appropriate analogy in some regards.
At what point in you analogy, does the strong, wiser of the two react as he does out of typical greed, arrogance and pride? I guess his acting out of self-defence is not allowed, since he is a jew.
Originally posted by Moogs
Someone has to take the high ground...do you think the little insecure beligerent kid is going to take it? No. The Palestinians have to be lead to a solution they can live with, they will not do the leading....
How about this as a solution to lead them to: Stop killing jews and the jews will stop killing Palestinians. Since Hamas etc al refuse to do so in any meaningful way, this is still Israel's fault how?
Originally posted by bunge
Perhaps Israeli arrogance is better, but I'm sure that will still rub some people the wrong way.
Complete it and see how it rubs you. Typical Israeli arrogance/pride.
Replace what you want, it still has a familiar ring to it, doesn't it?
Once you recoqnise that as the root cause of the problem, you come to the same conclusions Moogs has...as others have. Perhaps you will also come to the same Final Solution I am sure Moogs has in mind.
Originally posted by Tulkas
You are a liar. Camp David was killed by Arafat. Plain and simple.
How many times have a lie to be told before veryon e start to believe it?
Not even the people involved (from the Israeli and american side) share your POW.
Originally posted by Anders
How many times have a lie to be told before veryon e start to believe it?
Not even the people involved (from the Israeli and american side) share your POW.
Somewhere in the not too distant future, Arafat & Sharon will be wowing the audiences in Broadway, where they have been playing " The Odd couple " to rave reviews.
In the meantime, the new movers & shakers in the midle east will have patched up their differences and the whole place will be flooded with tourists taking photos of the original ark, buying bits of the true cross, eating shiskababs and generally doing the Funky Disko...
Originally posted by Anders
How many times have a lie to be told before veryon e start to believe it?
Not even the people involved (from the Israeli and american side) share your POW.
Fact: Arafat rejected the 2000 Camp David accord. Who denies this?
But you are right in one respect, tell a lie enough and it will become true to some. The blood libel is still held to be true by many.
Originally posted by Tulkas
Fact: Arafat rejected the 2000 Camp David accord. Who denies this?
Noone is denying that. But that has nothing to do with who killed it.
Have you followed th erecent conference at UTA to understand what actually happened at Camp David? If you had you would understand that to put the blame on Arafat alone (or even the large part of the blame) is false.
Originally posted by Anders
Noone is denying that. But that has nothing to do with who killed it.
Have you followed th erecent conference at UTA to understand what actually happened at Camp David? If you had you would understand that to put the blame on Arafat alone (or even the large part of the blame) is false.
So Israel comes to the table with an offer brokered by Clinton. The 3 parties spend 15 days hammering it out and Arafat Rejects it. Arafat also publically states that any agreement with Israel will be used only as a step in the primary goal of eliminating Israel and any treaties will be broken when they serve this goal. But, he is still not held responsible? Let me guess who is to blame.
Originally posted by Tulkas
So Israel comes to the table with an offer brokered by Clinton. The 3 parties spend 3 days hammering it out and Arafat Rejects it. Arafat also publically states that any agreement with Israel will be used only as a step in the primary goal of eliminating Israel and any treaties will be broken when they serve this goal. But, he is still not held responsible? Let me guess who is to blame.
Let me try again: Did you follow the conference? Read any of the contributions?